Getting a Tax File Number without work permit

[CrossBones]

Hi

Staying here over 180 days you need to pay taxes on overseas income.

Some income I send overseas some I bring here.

How do I get a tax file and what do they need from me? Can I just declare and say I bought x amount into Thailand - is so I have to show them a bank receipt or something?

[dimitriv]

1 hour ago, CrossBones said:

Staying here over 180 days you need to pay taxes on overseas income.

 

If I understand it right you only have to pay tax on foreign income if it is brought into Thailand in the same calendar year as you earned the income. So best to leave the money you don't need abroad.

 

 

[donnacha]

Tell them you need it for your savings account you are setting up for retirement purposes.

[saengd]

It's very easy to get a Thai tax ID, simply visit the local tax office, with your passport and ask for one, as long as your passport shows that you spend more than 180 days in Thailand they will issue you with a number within 15 minutes. 

 

I don't think there are that many foreign expats who voluntarily declare their overseas income to the Thai tax people, I've not met or even heard of even one in just under 20 years! Expats usually get a tax ID because they want to recover the tax paid on savings account interest, a small few may also declare rental income. But the Thai tax system is not set up to capture tax on foreign income earned by foreigners and the Tax Dept. does not actively seek this type of taxation. To be clear, overseas income brought into Thailand is only taxable in the year it was earned and remitted, income earned in prior years is not taxable. It's therefore almost impossible for the Thai tax people to separate remitted money and determine the year it was earned, most would claim the funds represented prior years savings.

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, CrossBones said:

Staying here over 180 days you need to pay taxes on overseas income.

Some income I send overseas some I bring here.

How do I get a tax file and what do they need from me? Can I just declare and say I bought x amount into Thailand - is so I have to show them a bank receipt or something?

You can get a Tax ID number from your local tax office. Once you have that you can file a tax return.

 

You probably should speak to an accountant before handing over your hard earned cash to the Thai taxman!

[Matzzon]

As elviajero post. Just go to the Revenue Office and obtain your Tax ID. You will only need your passport and maybe a document providing address in Thailand.

[dimitriv]

2 hours ago, saengd said:

I don't think there are that many foreign expats who voluntarily declare their overseas income to the Thai tax people, I've not met or even heard of even one in just under 20 years!

 

It can be good to pay something. Even if it is only $100. Being in Thailand for more than 180 days and being able to prove that you are a tax resident who paid tax makes things more clear if you get problems with the tax office in your old home country. This does probably not apply to US residents. But in my situation if I ever wanted to go back to my home country it could be very useful.

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by dimitriv

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, saengd said:

It's very easy to get a Thai tax ID, simply visit the local tax office, with your passport and ask for one, as long as your passport shows that you spend more than 180 days in Thailand they will issue you with a number within 15 minutes. 

They asked me for a Residence Certificate too. 

[Captain Monday]

I never spent 180 days in Thailand I got a Tax ID number easily. This is for refund of excess interest deductions on savings accounts, no other Thai income. Think of it this way. A man has a stack of 100 Hong Kong dollars on his desk in Hong Kong. Every year He earns $30 HKD, and every year he brings $HKD 10 into Thailand. As money is a fungible asset, he always brings in dollars from the bottom of the stack earned more than one year ago.  It is not taxable.

 

[topt]

On 10/16/2019 at 4:53 AM, saengd said:

It's very easy to get a Thai tax ID, simply visit the local tax office, with your passport and ask for one, as long as your passport shows that you spend more than 180 days in Thailand they will issue you with a number within 15 minutes. 

You may be that fortunate or not and perhaps they are more used to the request now than previously. 5 years ago it took a lot more time and effort than you suggest. I think it is going to very much depend on the specific tax office you need to use.

[YT3k72Em]

Take proof of address too.  That could be something like

1) residence certificate 

2) yellow house book

3) work permit

 

Be sure to go to the office that covers the area where you live.

[inThailand]

For US citizens they have to report and pay tax on bank interest earned. So it doesn't make sense to reclaim tax paid. You just use that to reduce your tax bill when filing your annual tax return.

 

Europeans, Auzzies do you do the same?

[saengd]

4 minutes ago, inThailand said:

For US citizens they have to report and pay tax on bank interest earned. So it doesn't make sense to reclaim tax paid. You just use that to reduce your tax bill when filing your annual tax return.

 

Europeans, Auzzies do you do the same?

It depends which country allows more latitude and flexibility in their tax system and which allows other options to be exercised. I'm a Brit and I reclaim my Thai tax paid here in Thailand. I then add that income to my UK tax bill and if I owe UK tax I offset that by making a UK pension contribution.

[topt]

14 minutes ago, saengd said:

It depends which country allows more latitude and flexibility in their tax system and which allows other options to be exercised. I'm a Brit and I reclaim my Thai tax paid here in Thailand. I then add that income to my UK tax bill and if I owe UK tax I offset that by making a UK pension contribution.

So you are still officially resident for tax purposes in the UK?

[saengd]

16 minutes ago, topt said:

So you are still officially resident for tax purposes in the UK?

I am tax resident in both countries. I have foreign income and rental income that arises in the UK so I am obliged to file a tax return. I file a Thai tax return to reclaim my interest paid in Thailand which as said I then lodge as income in the UK. The issue of 183 days is not material in every case, it is easily possible to be resident for tax purposes in several countries at the same time and in fact it can be beneficial to be so.

 

BTW I'm not "still" UK tax resident, I made myself UK tax resident once again on purpose two years ago.

Edited October 18, 2019 by saengd

[toolpush]

Where s the revenue office in Pattaya?

 

[johng]

Jomtien Second road nearly opposite Soi 5 where immigration is.

 

[NightSky]

If you fund your time in Thailand from savings located outside of Thailand and earned more than 12 months ago, there is no tax to pay even if you spend all year here.

 

Therefore its wise to take money from a savings account and top up the savings account with your income for next year. Totally legal. 

 

 

[musicscene]

4 hours ago, saengd said:

I am tax resident in both countries. I have foreign income and rental income that arises in the UK so I am obliged to file a tax return. I file a Thai tax return to reclaim my interest paid in Thailand which as said I then lodge as income in the UK. The issue of 183 days is not material in every case, it is easily possible to be resident for tax purposes in several countries at the same time and in fact it can be beneficial to be so.

 

BTW I'm not "still" UK tax resident, I made myself UK tax resident once again on purpose two years ago.

Why did you decide to make yourself UK tax resident again? I am very keen to know the advantage. Thanks 

[khunPer]

On 10/15/2019 at 8:31 PM, CrossBones said:

Staying here over 180 days you need to pay taxes on overseas income.

Some income I send overseas some I bring here.

How do I get a tax file and what do they need from me? Can I just declare and say I bought x amount into Thailand - is so I have to show them a bank receipt or something?

I just answered with my experience about obtaining a tax-ID in another thread...

 

Quote

I was trying to register within the last month – however for another reason than Thai interest tax – it's very difficult if one don't have a work income; I'm here on retirement-extension of stay. They wouldn't register me, including talking to "someone important" by telephone call to Bangkok. I went back another day and showed my pink ID-card, and a print of that I has sold a few Thai SET-shares with a profit, and then a local "someone important" office manager herself kindly registered me, and I got a tax-ID sticker, which is the official proof for income tax registration.

 

Within the last month an article in the news section of Thaivisa said that 12 million are registered as income tax payers – out of a population of more than 65 million – and only 4 million pays income tax. No wonder, they won't even register us...????

 

In principle you are tax resident when staying 180 days a year.

 

All foreign income brought into Thailand the same calendar year as earned are income taxable in Thailand. Foreign income brought in the following calendar year after earned, or later, are considered savings and tax-free to bring into the country.

 

If you have foreign income, then you need to check if your home country and Thailand has a double taxation agreement (DTA). You can find the list of countries here, including links to the DTAs. You can read more about DTA here.

 

I believe most expats living of foreign income officially live from savings. However, there might be other benefits from having an income tax-registration and being tax-resident, including advantages in your home country; you need to check the DTA between Thailand and your home country.

 

For some countries, non former governmental employees shall officially pay income tax of their retirement pension in Thailand, even tax has been paid or withheld in their home country. Double taxation can appear, so it's important to check with the DTA about how to handle this, when registering for Thai tax ID.

 

A British homepage for example says:

Quote

If the individual resides in Thailand for a total of 180 days or more during the tax year (not necessarily consecutive), then they are considered tax residents.

 

Income must be paid by non-residents on income sourced in Thailand only. Income tax on income sourced in Thailand is taxed but foreign income from pensions is not, whether remitted or not for non-residents. The foreign pension, to be excluded, must not have arisen in any way from employment in Thailand.

 

Progressive income tax rates apply in Thailand for those whose pension is taxable as detailed above. The highest rate is 35%. Annual tax returns are compulsory. Taxes paid in Malta or Gibraltar would not be refundable by Thailand. The DTA does not cover pensions or ‘other income’ with the UK so taxes paid in the UK could be levied if the pension were left in the UK, in addition to Thai taxes. If the pension is remitted from the UK in the same year as it arises, 80% ‘double-tax’ could apply at the top rate.

Personal schemes (SIPPs) and those in respect of past employment are treated equally in Thailand.

 

Thailand has 56 DTAs in total

Source and read more "QROPS in Thailand: Should you transfer your UK pension?"

[saengd]

2 hours ago, musicscene said:

Why did you decide to make yourself UK tax resident again? I am very keen to know the advantage. Thanks 

I wanted to become UK tax resident again because my income now at age 70 is under the UK personal allowance, my house and savings in Thailand are in my wife's name but my UK flat is in my name. I spend 6 months at my UK flat and then rent it out for the remaining six months, any excess income in a given year simple gets plowed back into pension contributions thus any tax liability is offset. My private pensions remain untouched, they are allowed to accumulate and I shall leave those to my Thai wife tax free (assuming I don't make it past 75). The time I spend in Thailand costs me almost nothing, my two state pensions (from different countries) cover that expense. My time in the UK is also covered by pension income and accrued rental income. Also important in this strategy is that I am now once again back into the fold for NHS and UK state pension increases. It works for me.