Savannakhet Making The Rules Up As They Go

[lapamita]

related to the first topic

 

21 hours ago, Jeffrey346 said:

An older gentleman wad told his wife's signatures were copies

and not acceptable. He told them it's black ink

thats true and not new. not only at consulates, on any goverment agency ,since..( min 20 years)

21 hours ago, Jeffrey346 said:

and say you need to come back when my Visa expires in 3 weeks.

happen to me too. but not in Savanaket , it was on another embassy. visa exp. 22/5 ( last entry) was there on 14/5 ..told me come back in 8 days. on the question why they not issue new visa start 1/7 or 1/8 they sad our decission/discretion,why

Remember anywhere, when visa not expired, you dont get a new one

[lapamita]

22 minutes ago, jackdd said:

It says so in the name: Non-immigrant

"non-immigrant" is called ยู่ชั่วคราว in Thai, which simply means "stay temporarily". If you want to stay permanently you are supposed to get permanent residency.

you know anybody have a permanent residency ???

 

i wonder ALL i know, have an extension of stay based on the visa ...and reason extension of stay.. wife, pension and so on.

its always an extension..even you stay on 1 year extension based on marrriage or pension or working

 

you know what mean a permanat residency ??? ( its not a one year staybased on...and limited,and as well a permanant residency cant be revoked easy, as a one year extension of stay ...)

here in thai i dont know one person who have a "permanant residency "..but i know many in other countrys,who offer permanant residency

 

[BritTim]

48 minutes ago, jackdd said:

It says so in the name: Non-immigrant

"non-immigrant" is called ยู่ชั่วคราว in Thai, which simply means "stay temporarily". If you want to stay permanently you are supposed to get permanent residency.

Unless you are married, it takes a minimum of five years in Thailand to qualify for permanent residency. Until then, even if you use extensions of your permission to stay, you are still on non immigrant entries which you seem to believe should only be used for short visits.

In my view, you are projecting your own views on how things ought to work, and assuming there are unwritten laws that make this the actual system in Thailand.

Thailand clearly does not want you making extended visits to Thailand without the authorities having the opportunity of screening you afresh, deciding if your visit is in Thailand's best interests. This is done in the following ways:

• screening you at consulates to see if you qualify for a new visa; or
• screening by immigration at the point of entry if you are applying for visa exempt entry or visa on arrival; or
• screening by immigration at immigration offices if you apply for an extension of your permission to stay without leaving and reentering Thailand.

None of these screening methods is intrinsically excluding you from qualifying using one of the other methods. I believe the Thai laws, as written, mean what they say. The unwritten laws being applied at some points of entry, denying entry to those prescreened at consulates, are a fact, but demonstrate that Thailand is still a third world country (albeit one with better infrastructure than most) in its attitudes to the rule of law.

[LivinLOS]

3 hours ago, GeorgeCross said:

why does it take 4-5 months?

 

firstly put money in bank to season for 2 months - takes 1 day to deposit or 0 days if wire from abroad

 

get wife to gather up all the docs

 

once seasoning finished, fly in, grab bank letter/kor ror 2, put in extension request, then wait 1 month with under consideration stamp

 

as far as i am aware one can still fly out/in on an under consideration stamp?

 

so time in country 1-2 days to apply + 1 day to pickup?

 

 

The extension cannot be applied for until 45 or 30 days before the end of the period of stay. 

 

That then puts a 30 day under consideration period on the end of the 90 days entry. Sometimes (rarely) they need a second under review period. 

 

90+30 minium.

 

 

[Pib]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

I think you mean the registration file number shown on the back of it.

Probably it you had not shown the marriage certificate they would of not even of noticed it.

We did not get a Kor Ror 2 when we registered our marriage. Wife made a quick trip to a local Amphoe when immigration wanted it the first time and go one by showing her ID card and nothing more.

I don't think immigration will ever notice the different file number. It took them several years before they noticed my wifes year  of birth was wrong. Not a big deal at the time since they went ahead and processed the application. Wife just got it fixed before we did the next application.

Nope...the number from the front of the form.  No info on the back of my Kor Ror 3. 

 

When we first went to get the Kor Ror 2 we handed our local district office the KR3...the rep started looking up the number from the KR3....number not found in the system.  The rep then looked under the wife's name....and up popped the info.  The rep then said she could not find the info in the system using the number from the KR3 because the number in the system is a different number...and also the husband's info is not even showing.  So, we have to go back to the office that issued the KR3 over four decades ago to get necessary corrections made.

 

If you have numbers on the back of your KR3 maybe it's because the styles have changed over the years like the placement of the data on the front....but I'm pretty sure the license number from the current day KR3 is also on the front based on google images.  The number is in Thai; not like we are use to seeing such as 1, 5, 9, etc).  So, unless a person read Thai they would not even now it was a number in that data element...and the pretty border around the KR3 is different. 

 

I guess the pretty border used for many years now on the KR3 is roses with the Garuda at the top and all in red. But on ours no roses but a variety of other images including two different kinds of flowers, three different kinds of vases, some other filler, the Garuda at the top, and all in blue & green. 

 

We got comments over the year when needing to present our KR3 that it's the old style as we have been married for over four decades; different from current KR3s it terms of the  pretty border and some data element placement.

 

And just to give an idea of the number error....it was just not just one digit....it was two digits.  See below examples....I just made up the numbers to protect the innocent (me)....but the the 2nd and 3rd numbers on the KR3 were incorrect.

 

Example of old/incorrect number on my KR3: 644/11782

Correct number on the marriage logs/in the national database: 620/11782 

 

[GeorgeCross]

58 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

The extension cannot be applied for until 45 or 30 days before the end of the period of stay. 

 

That then puts a 30 day under consideration period on the end of the 90 days entry. Sometimes (rarely) they need a second under review period. 

 

90+30 minium.

 

 

 

ok, but you don't have to actually be here for the whole 90 days or the 30 days part just enter to activate the visa, leave, return to process the extension, leave, return to pick up the stamp, leave again? (extending non-o multi)

[ubonjoe]

25 minutes ago, Pib said:

Nope...the number from the front of the form.  No info on the back of my Kor Ror 3. 

My bad. I had to open a copy of our marriage certificate. There is a file number on the front of it.

On the back there is a stamp that has some spaces for a ID number but they were left blank with a annotation under it with my passport number and a line with my wifes ID number under it. On the Kor Ror 2 the space for a ID number for me show all X's.

 

 

 

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

Unless you are married, it takes a minimum of five years in Thailand to qualify for permanent residency. Until then, even if you use extensions of your permission to stay, you are still on non immigrant entries which you seem to believe should only be used for short visits.

In my view, you are projecting your own views on how things ought to work, and assuming there are unwritten laws that make this the actual system in Thailand.

I didn't say that they should only be used for short visits, did i? Obviously it takes a few years before somebody can get permanent residency, for these years the person has to use a non-immigrant entry.

 

I'm also not talking about "unwritten laws", but about the point of time when the law (and ministerial order) was written.

When the immigration act was written there was no Non-O visa. At this point foreigners were supposed to make holiday in Thailand, or study, or work, and if they don't do this anymore they are supposed to go home. Foreigners who worked in Thailand had the option to get permanent residency which allowed them to stay in Thailand for the rest of their life.

But then 20 years after the immigration act was written the Thai government introduced Non-O visas, which allowed people to stay in Thailand forever, one year at a time. And this is what is causing all these problems.

 

I don't blame people who use the available options offered to them, but the Thai government for creating this mess.

People using yearly extensions to stay in Thailand generate more income than people with permanent residency, which is probably the reason this situation won't change.

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, GeorgeCross said:

 

ok, but you don't have to actually be here for the whole 90 days or the 30 days part just enter to activate the visa, leave, return to process the extension, leave, return to pick up the stamp, leave again? (extending non-o multi)

You forgot to mention a re-entry permit is needed to keep the 90 days and 30 days valid when entering the country.

[NoshowJones]

21 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

No that isn't legal

Never mind what is legal and what is not legal, if you can get away with doing anything to your advantage and no 

ordinary person is getting hurt, then just do it.

The more you obey peoples laws, they more they will make up more laws for you to obey.

Man up and use your middle finger.

Edited October 22, 2019 by possum1931

[Pib]

10 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

My bad. I had to open a copy of our marriage certificate. There is a file number on the front of it.

On the back there is a stamp that has some spaces for a ID number but they were left blank with a annotation under it with my passport number and a line with my wifes ID number under it. On the Kor Ror 2 the space for a ID number for me show all X's.

On the Kor Ror 2 for my ID number the area is partially blank.  This is where a non-Thai citizens passport number would normally go....the passport you had at the time of marriage--"if" you had a passport which would "almost" always be the case. 

 

When at Rayong correcting the data they mentioned there was no passport number in the paper records/log and they knew why because at that time I was in the US military stationed at Utapao....military did not have passports....they just entered Thailand on their military ID.  The logs didn't even contain any record of what that old military ID number would have been...probably just my social security number.   Anyway, Rayong continued to leave any ID number for me blank in the corrections/update in the database....they didn't want to use my current passport as it was not the ID used over four decades ago....they didn't seem to have any issue with that.    And on the Kor Ror 2 they produced after all the corrections and one I got the next day at an office in Bangkok just to ensure I could, just like in your case, there is no ID number listed for me.  For the wife they have her Thai ID card.

 

Edited October 22, 2019 by Pib

[NoshowJones]

21 hours ago, john terry1001 said:

It's not about keeping people out, it's about Immigration wanting people to have the correct permission to stay in Thailand.

 

There has always been a hard core of people who want to stay permanently but can't/don't want to abide by the legal method so look for alternative options. As Immigration have, over recent years, tightened the requirements to stay long term in Thailand the the hard core numbers looking for alternative options to stay have increased. With the numbers increasing, increased checking and disruption to weed out inaccurate applications at places like Savanakhet is probably the first step to encourage people who stay in Thailand permanently to use the extension method instead of trying to stay under the radar by continually applying for non immigrant visas and doing border runs etc. 

Why does a person who is legally married and continuing to live with his wife and Thai family, contributing to the Thai economy have to bother doing visa runs, or any kind of reporting etc, just to live in Thailand?

[john terry1001]

4 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Why does a person who is legally married and continuing to live with his wife and Thai family, contributing to the Thai economy have to bother doing visa runs, or any kind of reporting etc, just to live in Thailand?

He doesn't have to do any visa runs at all, providing he's gone through the process of obtaining a non O visa in order to get annual extensions. He only needs to do 90 day reports which can be done quickly on line.

[NoshowJones]

5 minutes ago, john terry1001 said:

He doesn't have to do any visa runs at all, providing he's gone through the process of obtaining a non O visa in order to get annual extensions. He only needs to do 90 day reports which can be done quickly on line.

No one should have to report to anyone in any country if they are not breaking any laws and are contributing to that countrys economy.

[Rahibew]

On 10/21/2019 at 11:57 AM, scubascuba3 said:

On 10/21/2019 at 11:45 AM, Bruntoid said:

I give everything to an agent, he takes it to the office, I wait in a hotel (laid on entertainment), next day he brings back all the paperwork and another 12 month visa. (Can extend it to 16 months)
 
Fee 7,500 (plus the 5,000 visa fee obviously) 
 
Bargain

What visa is that?

 It seems that the visa are getting harder and harder to get these people don’t know which way is up or which way is down it will get straight for the present government won’t be in power very long they’re running all her ex pants off and with that they running all the money off so it’s just a matter of time before changes just sit tight little change 

[Thaidream]

33 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Why does a person who is legally married and continuing to live with his wife and Thai family, contributing to the Thai economy have to bother doing visa runs, or any kind of reporting etc, just to live in Thailand?

Exactly- A person who is legally married should be able to stay with his/her family without harrassment.  The Universal Declaration of Rights  has declared it is a human right to be able to stay with one's family.  Thailand has signed the declaration.

 

Then there is the question of reciprocity-  As an American married to a Thai- MY wife can apply for an Immigrant Visa to the USA.  I have to show proof of appromitaly $22,000 either in cashl landl houses; job or other assets amounting to the required figure.  In addition, this amount can be reached inclusing my wife's assets as well as a sponsoir providing their assets.

 

This allows my Thai wife to enter the USA and after 2 years obtains permenent residnecy.  She has access to every right an American citizen has (except voting).  There are no checkins with Immigration; proving over and over  finances and checking every 90 days where she is.

 

I have been married over 40 years to a Thai citizen (2 marriages). For an extension of stay- each year- I must show the finances; pictures; copies of everything. Assets don't count- even though I have spent millions on houses; sending  step children to school; Condos; cars.  My wife's income doesn't count. I have no rights- cannot purchase land or a single house with land.   In addition- I have to file TM30s and do 90 day reporting.  I am basically tracked everywhere I go in and out of Thailand.

 

This is hardly reciprocity and frankly pure outright discrimination against foreigners married to Thai citizens.

 

The Non O Visa serves an important purpose- it bridges the gap for people who do not want to bring all their money to Thailand; the outdated and outrageaus Thai immigration system and the lack of reciprocity that non Thais receive in Thailand. 

 

In the past , I have used Multiple and single Non O's for all the reasons otheres have stated.  If Thai Immigration causes problems in which a married couple cannt be together- they will be in violation of a United nations Directive and most likely face a backlash from other countries.   I hope it never comes to that- 

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, possum1931 said:

Never mind what is legal and what is not legal, if you can get away with doing anything to your advantage and no 

ordinary person is getting hurt, then just do it.

The more you obey peoples laws, they more they will make up more laws for you to obey.

Man up and use your middle finger.

Using you middle finger against bank staff is plain stupid. What would you want to do with that recording to start with? Share it on a site, another stupid idea.

[NoshowJones]

7 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Exactly- A person who is legally married should be able to stay with his/her family without harrassment.  The Universal Declaration of Rights  has declared it is a human right to be able to stay with one's family.  Thailand has signed the declaration.

 

Then there is the question of reciprocity-  As an American married to a Thai- MY wife can apply for an Immigrant Visa to the USA.  I have to show proof of appromitaly $22,000 either in cashl landl houses; job or other assets amounting to the required figure.  In addition, this amount can be reached inclusing my wife's assets as well as a sponsoir providing their assets.

 

This allows my Thai wife to enter the USA and after 2 years obtains permenent residnecy.  She has access to every right an American citizen has (except voting).  There are no checkins with Immigration; proving over and over  finances and checking every 90 days where she is.

 

I have been married over 40 years to a Thai citizen (2 marriages). For an extension of stay- each year- I must show the finances; pictures; copies of everything. Assets don't count- even though I have spent millions on houses; sending  step children to school; Condos; cars.  My wife's income doesn't count. I have no rights- cannot purchase land or a single house with land.   In addition- I have to file TM30s and do 90 day reporting.  I am basically tracked everywhere I go in and out of Thailand.

 

This is hardly reciprocity and frankly pure outright discrimination against foreigners married to Thai citizens.

 

The Non O Visa serves an important purpose- it bridges the gap for people who do not want to bring all their money to Thailand; the outdated and outrageaus Thai immigration system and the lack of reciprocity that non Thais receive in Thailand. 

 

In the past , I have used Multiple and single Non O's for all the reasons otheres have stated.  If Thai Immigration causes problems in which a married couple cannt be together- they will be in violation of a United nations Directive and most likely face a backlash from other countries.   I hope it never comes to that- 

Excellent post, well worth reading.

[NoshowJones]

7 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Using you middle finger against bank staff is plain stupid. What would you want to do with that recording to start with? Share it on a site, another stupid idea.

It is even more stupid to not understand that the expression is only a figure of speech. I have never used my middle finger to anyone, and have no intention of doing so.

[BritManToo]

13 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

This allows my Thai wife to enter the USA and after 2 years obtains permenent residnecy.  She has access to every right an American citizen has (except voting).  There are no checkins with Immigration; proving over and over  finances and checking every 90 days where she is.

To be fair, an American wife moving to live in Thailand with her Thai husband has the same rights as your Thai wife moving to live in America with you.

[Pattaya46]

19 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Exactly- A person who is legally married should be able to stay with his/her family without harrassment.  The Universal Declaration of Rights  has declared it is a human right to be able to stay with one's family.  Thailand has signed the declaration. //

I am very unsure that there is such a statement in the UDoHR… 

Check yourself:  https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/

[problemfarang]

I think your only problem was not having the original of marriage certificate. To be honest Im getting my multi-o from that embassy, every time i was there ive asked for the original one. He just want to see if its real or not. He always touch it and let me go so easy. 

 

In your case ( i don't know what official paper work they want or need as you mentioned to the officer there) it sounds like its your mistake instead of his. If you check this form, you surely will see that every time when ppl ask about paper work for that embassy, all ppl mention you need the original paper work with you. Also from your post i can feel that its not your first time there... so... i think they dont do anything extra but its kinda your fault. About black ink signature. Its so true that he not accept. If you do any paper work in thailand, its all blue ink pen. I wouldnt blame them tbh. 

[problemfarang]

On 10/21/2019 at 12:49 PM, SteveK said:

So it's at the embassies, the airports and the border crossings. There MUST be something coming down from the top about keeping people out. As this guy buckled under the pressure from the wife, it's clear he was just chancing it and probably was fuming that he had to accept your paperwork. 99% of the time his charade would have worked.

Hi,

in this case its totally not the officer's fault  or mistake or his making up the rules or laws. This on is totally on the post owner. its obvious its not his 1st time there. Every one in thailand knows if you go there to do your non-o you need the original paper work. Also no official office or likewise accepts black ink. Labor office and many do like this. 

About using her wife's ID... well i do understand how he felt at that moment and had no other options. But doing that and showing that ID... nah.. wrong! I think that officer ( i very well know him) just wanted to help him, thats all. My wife is a high rank officer in the navy. Not used her position once.

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, john terry1001 said:

He doesn't have to do any visa runs at all, providing he's gone through the process of obtaining a non O visa in order to get annual extensions. He only needs to do 90 day reports which can be done quickly on line.

"He only needs to do 90 day reports which can be done quickly on line." Is that still not reporting?

For your benefit I will repeat again. "Why does a person who is legally married and continuing to live with his wife and Thai family, contributing to the Thai economy have to bother doing visa runs, or any kind of reporting etc, just to live in Thailand." Get it now?

[SteveK]

5 minutes ago, problemfarang said:

I think that officer just wanted to help him, thats all. 

Yeah, that IO wanted to "help" the OP by giving him back his paperwork and telling him to go away.

Edited October 22, 2019 by SteveK

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, possum1931 said:

Why does a person who is legally married and continuing to live with his wife and Thai family, contributing to the Thai economy have to bother doing visa runs, or any kind of reporting etc, just to live in Thailand?

To confirm that status is still true....

Forget the contributing to the Thai economy, they are often using marriage to reduce the costs.

[Doge]

I would have brought the originals. I don't think they are out of line asking for them no matter how lax things might have been.

 

When I go to make my extension they want to see the same original documents over and over and over.

 

Next you'll complain that they wanted to see 400k but they never did before but fact is you don't have it either which would be the actual bone of contention.

[transam]

2 minutes ago, SteveK said:

Yeah, that IO wanted to "help" the OP by giving him back his paperwork and telling him to go away.

Because he did not have marriage certificates. Very simple stipulation if you use Sav. They do not ask to see money......

 

But, in my opinion they should ask for a new, officially signed Kor Ror 2, easy to get if you are still married, costs 20bht....

[lkv]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

Exactly- A person who is legally married should be able to stay with his/her family without harrassment.  The Universal Declaration of Rights  has declared it is a human right to be able to stay with one's family.  Thailand has signed the declaration.

 

I have addressed the human rights situation in a previous post here:

 

 

In short, they don't really care much.

Edited October 22, 2019 by lkv

[transam]

20 hours ago, Khon Kaen Jeff said:

Haha..talking for other people now are we. never seen any useful input from you despite literally spending your whole 'life' on here. Sad.

Now how would you know that "new boy".....????.......????...Tut tut...