There is now ZERO doubt that I will continue to learn Passa Thai until the day I (so sadly) die.

[Roel]

Go for it. Ignore all the stupid arguments: "it is an ugly language", purely subjective matter, there is no scientific proof of that, "I would't want to understand what the Thais say about me", apart from the occasional rude tuk tuk driver and the arrogant immigration official, you will find out that the majority of Thais ARE friendly, they are nót hostile and they are certainly not out there to get you as many seem to think, "you will never be fluent", probably true certainly with Thai but not a valid reason not to try to master it as far as you get.

These are all weak excuses of people mostly to justify their own laziness, not to convince you that it is really not worth it. Don't let them pull you off.

[Thian]

But if you learn proper thai then don't expect the people on the street to understand it.

 

Krab is the real word but they all say klab.

Mai ben rai is the real word, they all say mai pen laai.

Tao rai krab, tao lai kab?

nung roi baht, loi nung .

 

And there are many more examples, first need to drink my coffee now.

[tgeezer]

1 hour ago, MisterBleach said:

Where?

Where can you discuss Thai? Right here for a start. You should have an opinion on why it is necessary to say pasa Thai for example. 

[BestB]

3 minutes ago, Thian said:

I have a friend his name is Min...but min also means stinky....so i don't dare to say his name hahaha. Sure i can't do it properly. But he also speaks english so that's what we speak,

Min does not mean stinky

 

its hemn (man)????

[Thian]

5 hours ago, BestB said:

Min does not mean stinky

 

its hemn (man)????

Min doesn't mean stinky? You mean hemn is stinky? if so then i better stop learning thai.

[MisterBleach]

15 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

Where can you discuss Thai? Right here for a start. You should have an opinion on why it is necessary to say pasa Thai for example. 

I do not have an opinion about it.

This is the way it is.

ภาษาไทย = passa Thai

Any fool should know this.

 

ภาษาไทย = Thai language

 

I have no time for language fools.

Edited October 25, 2019 by MisterBleach

[tgeezer]

3 minutes ago, Thian said:

But if you learn proper thai then don't expect the people on the street to understand it.

 

Krab is the real word but they all say klab.

Mai ben rai is the real word, they all say mai pen laai.

Tao rai krab, tao lai kab?

nung roi baht, loi nung .

 

And there are many more examples, first need to drink my coffee now.

This is not true. Do you think that pronouncing an L in place of R makes any difference to comprehension?

More widely, I think that Thais are as class conscious as are Brits, they will try not to appear to be ignorant if they feel the need. Language is not the means to choose if the person one wants to impress can’t understand it. 

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

"Men" means bad smelling, pronounced the same as "The men are sleeping" in English.

The opposite of "men" is "hom", meaning good smelling, pronounced the same as "This is my home" in English.

In many TV commercials recently, they've been saying "Hom sd chun!", meaning "a refreshing good smell". "Hom" is good smelling, "sd" is fresh, "chun" is a feeling.

You'll also see "sd" used to describe the "talad sd" in your town, the fresh market, where you get your fresh veggies and means. "Sd" also appears in the top right corner of Thai PBS, meaning the broadcast is live, you're getting the "freshest news".

 

I've only been at this for about two years, watching TV with the wife, practicing with students and friends, making the connections. It's fun. I'd rather not be one of the local bar stool warmers bragging about how they've been here 20 years, and barely understand a word.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

8 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

The language is called Thai, not 'passa Thai'... much in the same way when someone is learning English they are learning English and have English lessons, not learning 'speak English' and having 'Speak English' lessons... 

 

You are learning Thai, not learning 'Passa Thai'...  however.

 

One other point, learn Thai from a language school if you can, don't learn Thai from girls you've picked up in a bar etc, otherwise everyone you speak Thai with will recognise you've learned your Thai from a bar girl and some will judge you accordingly (yes, a contentious comment, but I have heard Thai's comment in Thai to each other that 'that guy speaks Thai like a bar girl' !!)

 

 

 

You're wrong here mate. I wouldn't start making corrections on other people's comments if you're correction is itself inaccurate.

 

Phood (พูด) = Speak 

Pha'sa (ภาษา) = Language

 

i.e.: 'Khun phood pha'sa Thai dai mai krup?' / 'Can you speak Thai?' -- คุณพูดภาษาไทยได้ไหม?

 

'Thai' is simply the denotation of which language is the subject of the question. In the same way that someone is an English language speaker as well as an English speaker. There is nothing more or less correct about a Thai saying 'phood pha'sa Thai dai mai?' than if they asked 'Phood Thai dai mai' - they're simply dropping the 'language' noun from the question, which is fine, of course - and closer to how we in Europe would ask the question, it is perhaps more informal to ask that way, but both ways are totally acceptable and I have had many Thais ask me using both variants, over the years.

 

I would agree with you that if you're serious about it, studying on a part time course with a Thai teacher at a language centre is probably the best way to do it. I have worked (not studied) with a few Thai teachers in the past and although some were terribly pompous and autocratic sounding, some seemed to be very nurturing and attentive too. Luck of the draw. This would probably be the preferable way to learn the language I would say Mister Bleach, being the most meticulous approach to studying every part of it, from someone who knows what they're talking about. But it's not the only way of going about it.

 

9 hours ago, MisterBleach said:

These days, learning passa Thai has become my "holy grail", my holy quest, which will usher me into better understanding of Thai culture.

Personally, I have only really ever learned from my partner who is a native speaker from Kanchanaburi, as well as from friends and from simply practicing it with Thais in everyday situations around the country for many years - that in my opinion, is the most surefire way to improve quickly - speak with Thais in a multitude of situations and it will help build your confidence, aural comprehension and speaking ability - you'll be corrected by the average Thai in the street when you make an error (usually pronunciation) and that should help you learn too. Furthermore, if you can speak Thai competently with the locals, they LOVE it, as it is considerably rare. You get a very different experience here IF you can speak Thai reasonably well, that much is for sure. I'd say go for it, and enjoy yourself!

 

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2019 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[BritManToo]

17 minutes ago, MisterBleach said:

I have no time for language fools.

I agree, on ignore.

[sfokevin]

8 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

No languages are inherently beautiful or ugly.

You have obviously never been in a minivan full of Chinese grandmothers on a three hour drive to Hua Hin... 

Edited October 25, 2019 by sfokevin

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

40 minutes ago, Thian said:

Min doesn't mean stinky? You mean hemn is stinky? if so then i better stop learning thai.

 

Horm - Fragrant / Perfumed

 

Hmen - Smelly / Fetid

[Thian]

5 hours ago, tgeezer said:

This is not true. Do you think that pronouncing an L in place of R makes any difference to comprehension?

For me it sure does!

 

 

5 hours ago, tgeezer said:

More widely, I think that Thais are as class conscious as are Brits, they will try not to appear to be ignorant if they feel the need. Language is not the means to choose if the person one wants to impress can’t understand it. 

You think so? Have you ever heard the commentators on thai tv when they speak about the ones we're not allowed to mention? Then they speak an R instead of an L....ALL the time..

[BestB]

47 minutes ago, Thian said:

Min doesn't mean stinky? You mean hemn is stinky? if so then i better stop learning thai.

No, min does not mean stinky, hemn( man) does.
 

it is an “a” instead of an “Ee”

 

hope it makes sense 

 

it is also not stinky but foul if to be pedantic ????

[tgeezer]

2 minutes ago, MisterBleach said:

I do not have an opinion about it.

This is the way it is.

ภาษาไทย = passa Thai

Any fool should know this.

It is not my intention to argue the toss over this but it is a matter of fact that thai does not mean pasa thai. 

Thai is what is called an isolating language which as far as I can determine means that one word means one thing, that means that a combinations of words or context is required to give more meaning.

With pasa thai we mean Thai language, poot (speak) gives context so thai appears to be alright but language is the object of the verb not thai, poot thai makes sense only in English. I was in my kitchen thinking about this subject when the elastic band(rubber band Am. Eng.) broke so I asked for ow eek yaang.  

 

 

 

That is alright because it was in context but If I went out to buy elastic bands I need to ask for yaang rat(rubber bind). 

We can argue over my parlance and phonetic symbols but as my other topic tries to show, Thai should be good enough. 

[Thian]

5 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

Horm - Fragrant / Perfumed

 

Hmen - Smelly / Fetid

I see, well when a thai says Horm i never hear that R....i thought it was hom...but i guess you're right. And for Hmen to me it sounds like Min...but i'm just a dumb falang...oh solly, farang.

[Thian]

9 hours ago, MisterBleach said:

One of your four meanings for Maa, as you mentioned, then must be:

 

ม่า

 

Which means, as you know, "Chinese mother".

 

Of course, ma might mean "horse", in Chinese.

 

 

It also means dog i believe, and Come...like come here, maa nee...

[Thian]

6 hours ago, Roel said:

Go for it. Ignore all the stupid arguments: "it is an ugly language", purely subjective matter, there is no scientific proof of that, "I would't want to understand what the Thais say about me", apart from the occasional rude tuk tuk driver and the arrogant immigration official, you will find out that the majority of Thais ARE friendly, they are nót hostile and they are certainly not out there to get you as many seem to think, "you will never be fluent", probably true certainly with Thai but not a valid reason not to try to master it as far as you get.

These are all weak excuses of people mostly to justify their own laziness, not to convince you that it is really not worth it. Don't let them pull you off.

Sometimes i'm very happy that i can't understand thai...like when we took the riverboat while the longtailboat drivers were yelling to us to hire them....when we sit in the riverboat my wife said that those longtailboat drivers were yelling things like that my wife is a hooker and eats the big carrot all day long....if i could understand that they would have been swimming in the chao praya.

[tgeezer]

13 minutes ago, Thian said:

For me it sure does!

 

 

You think so? Have you ever heard the commentators on thai tv when they speak about the ones we're not allowed to mention? Then they speak an R instead of an L....ALL the time..

The presenters of the Court Affairs are speaking central Thai using Royal language too, not trying to impress a foreigner who can not speak Thai.  I also try to say R all the time too because Thais appreciate it, I live in Bangkok and although Isaan is widely accepted I stick to Central Thai mostly.  From a caddy: เห็นลูกบ่ I will  use that too. 

[Thian]

5 hours ago, tgeezer said:

The presenters of the Court Affairs are speaking central Thai using Royal language too, not trying to impress a foreigner who can not speak Thai.  I also try to say R all the time too because Thais appreciate it, I live in Bangkok and although Isaan is widely accepted I stick to Central Thai mostly.  From a caddy: เห็นลูกบ่ I will  use that too. 

I have the impression that when i dress very well, speak with an R all the time...the price will double ????

 

So i only do that when i go to malls where they have fixed prices. But lately i won't go to malls anymore, lazada is much better.

[TSF]

9 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

The language is called Thai, not 'passa Thai'... much in the same way when someone is learning English they are learning English and have English lessons, not learning 'speak English' and having 'Speak English' lessons... 

 

You are learning Thai, not learning 'Passa Thai'...  however.

 

One other point, learn Thai from a language school if you can, don't learn Thai from girls you've picked up in a bar etc, otherwise everyone you speak Thai with will recognise you've learned your Thai from a bar girl and some will judge you accordingly (yes, a contentious comment, but I have heard Thai's comment in Thai to each other that 'that guy speaks Thai like a bar girl' !!)

 

 

That's what happened to me when I first seriously began learning Thai many years ago. I was hanging out with Thai musicians and the cafe gals & singers and all their friends, so I was picking up the teenage bar/coffee shop jargon. Until someone pointed out to me one day that I was sounding like a "Thai teenybopper". ...????????????

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

18 minutes ago, Thian said:

I see, well when a thai says Horm i never hear that R....i thought it was hom...but i guess you're right. And for Hmen to me it sounds like Min...but i'm just a dumb falang...oh solly, farang.

I think it's a matter of one's perception and aural comprehension really. People hear things differently. H-O-M is a little flat and short-voweled for this pronunciation - to my mind. I think if one listens closely, you'll recognise the vowel sound is elongated somewhat, so - H-O-R-M or maybe H-O-H-M, arai go'dai really ???? .  

H-M-E-N is a more accurate pronunciation than M-I-N however, but when transliterating phonetically from Thai to English it's all a bit arbitrary, what's important is the way the words are pronounced by the speaker, however you choose to spell them or memorise them phonetically is your call, as long as the final pronunciation is comprehensible to the other party - something that is often an issue in Thailand.  

Edited October 25, 2019 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[MisterBleach]

8 minutes ago, Thian said:

Sometimes i'm very happy that i can't understand thai...like when we took the riverboat while the longtailboat drivers were yelling to us to hire them....when we sit in the riverboat my wife said that those longtailboat drivers were yelling things like that my wife is a hooker and eats the big carrot all day long....if i could understand that they would have been swimming in the chao praya.

Wow!

Eats the big carrot?

I have never heard that before.

 

However, you are entirely justified in feeling stressed, and I can easily empathize with you.

 

When I used to walk with one of my wives on the streets, and this was before I divorced my wife, she was often insulted, and she was also not Thai.

 

My best advice is to ignore these slurs, slings, and arrows.

[TSF]

MisterBleach: I taught myself the rudiments of reading Thai in a very short time using the Thai school kids books. I think this is the best way to learn to read as it's the same way Thais learn. 

 

[Isaanbiker]

9 hours ago, Thian said:

Phut passa thai mai? That's how they ask me if i can do it.

Do what? ????

[MisterBleach]

Just now, TSF said:

MisterBleach: I taught myself the rudiments of reading Thai in a very short time using the Thai school kids books. I think this is the best way to learn to read as it's the same way Thais learn. 

 

Thank you very much for your good advice.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

43 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

It is not my intention to argue the toss over this but it is a matter of fact that thai does not mean pasa thai. 

Thai is what is called an isolating language which as far as I can determine means that one word means one thing, that means that a combinations of words or context is required to give more meaning.

With pasa thai we mean Thai language, poot (speak) gives context so thai appears to be alright but language is the object of the verb not thai, poot thai makes sense only in English. I was in my kitchen thinking about this subject when the elastic band(rubber band Am. Eng.) broke so I asked for ow eek yaang.  

 

 

 

That is alright because it was in context but If I went out to buy elastic bands I need to ask for yaang rat(rubber bind). 

We can argue over my parlance and phonetic symbols but as my other topic tries to show, Thai should be good enough. 

 

I think your spot on with regard to Thai definitely being an 'isolating language' if that is the correct term to use? 

 

'combinations of words or context is required to give more meaning'  - the context is what counts and is often paramount when speaking Thai because of its tonal nature, in that - if you use the wrong tonal intonation for a word it completely changes the meaning of that word, however if the context is clear enough it shouldn't confuse the other party you're conversing with, that's not always the case though as we can probably all confirm.

 

If we say pha'sa Thai we mean Thai language, if we say khon Thai we mean Thai person/people, ahaan Thai - Thai cuisine etc. etc., but the fact that the noun/adjective 'Thai' - when used in conjunction with the verb phood is clearly referencing the language (as what else would you use the verb to 'speak' with?) then it seems perfectly acceptable to drop the noun pha'sa - and this is clearly demonstrated by the number of Thais who do in fact say 'phood Thai dai mai?', even if it is a somewhat lazier way of asking the question.

Edited October 25, 2019 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[Isaanbiker]

1 minute ago, TSF said:

MisterBleach: I taught myself the rudiments of reading Thai in a very short time using the Thai school kids books. I think this is the best way to learn to read as it's the same way Thais learn. 

 

There're plenty of good Youtube videos on how to learn Thai. 

[Matzzon]

9 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

The language is called Thai, not 'passa Thai'... much in the same way when someone is learning English they are learning English and have English lessons, not learning 'speak English' and having 'Speak English' lessons...

Oh dear! So, here you are clearly stating that passa Thai, is sam like speak English? Really. If you want speak, then the word would be "phut" and is you want language then the word would be "passa"

[Matzzon]

9 hours ago, BestB said:

Who ever asks you like this, can not speak Thai, because it should be be "Phut passa thai DAI mai"????

 

 

Phut passa thai mai? It´s nothing really wrong with that, and it will not mean can not speak in any kind of way. This is only the quick version between fiends instead of using "dai" before "mai"
 

That´s why there is a difference between school bench Thai and the Thai language in real life. I am quite certain that you will find thoses differences in you own native language too.