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[rooster59]

EU agrees Brexit extension but sets no date as UK squabbles over election

By Gabriela Baczynska and John Chalmers

 

An hybrid flag depicting the EU and the British flags is seen during a debate on the last EU summit and Brexit at the European Parliament in Strasbourg, France, October 22, 2019. REUTERS/Vincent Kessler

 

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The European Union agreed on Friday to London's request for a Brexit deadline extension but set no new departure date, giving Britain's divided parliament time to decide on Prime Minister Boris Johnson's call for a snap election.

 

"There was full agreement on the need for an extension," an EU official said after ambassadors from the 27 countries staying in the bloc met to discuss postponing Britain's exit, less than a week before the current deadline of Oct. 31.

 

"Work will continue over the weekend" and envoys will meet again in Brussels on Monday or Tuesday, the person said.

 

A day after admitting that he will not meet his "do or die" deadline of Oct. 31, Johnson said it was up to the EU to decide on an extension.

 

"Of course October 31 is still possible - we could leave on Oct. 31 - unfortunately it depends on what the EU says," he said, adding that if opponents frustrate his bid for an election on Dec. 12 his minority government would not engage in pointless "Brexitology" in parliament.

 

The EU envoys had been due to discuss the length of a third delay to Brexit but diplomats decided to hold off to let events play out in London.

 

One EU diplomat said France pressed the other 26 to wait and favoured a delay until Nov. 15 or Nov. 30 to keep pressure on the British parliament to approve Johnson's deal or face a disorderly Brexit.

 

"Everyone wanted a decision today. But France had a problem with that and wanted to wait until Monday/Tuesday to see what happens in London," the diplomat said.

 

A source close to French President Emmanuel Macron said: "France wants a justified and proportionate extension.

However, we have nothing of the sort so far. We must show the British that it is up to them to clarify the situation and that an extension is not a given."

 

"Briefings by Paris threatening a no-deal Brexit don't make it any easier to find a solution among the EU-27. They are dividing not uniting," a European diplomat said, adding that France was isolated in its position.

 

Macron has previously managed to sway the bloc's extension decisions, meaning options range from two weeks to the three months - to Jan. 31, 2020 - requested by Johnson, or longer should it be clear that Britain is headed for an election.

 

Any delay can only be granted unanimously and it could come as little as 60 hours before Britain is due to leave.

 

BLANK DATE

 

According to a draft document seen by Reuters ahead of Friday's meeting, a delay was to be granted "with the view to allowing for the finalisation of the ratification" of the divorce agreement sealed with Johnson last week.

 

The draft text left the Brexit date blank, but said the split could take place earlier if ratification was completed, an idea dubbed a flexible extension or "flextension".

 

A two-tier delay was also on the cards, meaning one decision might come with two possible dates for Brexit, depending on if and when the deal is ratified.

 

"This extension excludes any reopening of the Withdrawal Agreement," the draft decision said, reminding Britain it would remain a full, paying member state until it leaves and should not seek to stall EU decisions.

 

The EU is intent on preventing the most damaging no-deal split, but it is also tired of the intractable divorce.

 

A joke in that spirit was being shared among EU diplomats: "The year is 2192. The British prime minister visits Brussels to ask for an extension of the Brexit deadline. No one remembers where this tradition originated, but every year it attracts many tourists from all over the world."

 

More than three years after Britons voted 52%-48% to be the first country to leave the European project, the future of Brexit is unclear and the country bitterly divided.

 

Johnson won the leadership of the ruling Conservative Party in July with a pledge to get Brexit done by Oct. 31, but parliament's rejection of his timetable on Tuesday means he will fail to do that.

 

His predecessor Theresa May resigned after parliament defeated her Brexit deal three times, forcing delays from an initial Brexit date of March 29.

 

Johnson told opposition Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn he would give parliament more time to approve his Brexit deal by Nov. 6 if lawmakers back a December election in a vote on Monday, his third attempt at forcing a snap poll.

 

Corbyn replied he would wait to see what the EU does on a Brexit delay before deciding which way to vote, repeating that he could only back an election when the risk of a no-deal Brexit was off the table.

 

It is not clear how Corbyn will respond now the EU has shelved its decision on a new Brexit date. A spokesman for Johnson said he would push ahead with plans to leave the EU if lawmakers reject a pre-Christmas election.

 

Ladbrokes said betting odds indicated an election in 2020.

 

(Additional reporting by Michel Rose in Paris, Jan Strupczewski in Brussels; Editing by Janet Lawrence and Daniel Wallis)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-10-26

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[Rookiescot]

Johnson needs to go back to the EU and get a deal which keeps the whole UK in the single market. Its the only deal that will get through Westminster.

"Just like Norway" as Farage said.

[kingdong]

18 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Johnson needs to go back to the EU and get a deal which keeps the whole UK in the single market. Its the only deal that will get through Westminster.

"Just like Norway" as Farage said.

But difficult when you're negotiating with both arm's tied behind your back

[DannyCarlton]

 

51 minutes ago, rooster59 said:

"Of course October 31 is still possible - we could leave on Oct. 31 - unfortunately it depends on what the EU says," he said, adding that if opponents frustrate his bid for an election on Dec. 12 his minority government would not engage in pointless "Brexitology" in parliament.

Yet more empty threats from Johnson. A "flextension" would mean that we could leave at any time between tomorrow and January 31st. It doesn't tie his hands in any way. Why would he refuse to continue progressing his Agreement through parliament if no election date is set (which it won't be)?

 

Whenever the election takes place, it's pretty certain that no single party will achieve overall control, in December and it's likely to lead to a Conservative coalition. In the spring and it's likely to lead to a Labour coalition. Corbyn is pretty much alone in the Labour Party in wanting a December election as he knows that by the spring he's unlikely to be the party leader. Expect the early election to be quashed by the majority of labour MPs and Corbyn to quickly exit stage left. Bring on Kier Starmer.

[Henryford]

It was obvious they would agree the extension. They would do anything to keep the billions rolling into their coffers.

[stephenterry]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

Sorry, but I don't understand, what exactly are you reporting to staff....? ????

Basically, the insinuation (well done) that I'm (and others on here) one of the people who has prevented the passage of johnson's bill. That's a personal insult, which is incendiary, disrespectful, and flouts forum rules, IMO.   

 

Is that clearer?

[Scott]

Inflammatory post reported and removed along with replies.

 

[vogie]

12 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’d call them Parliamentarians representing their constituents and constituency.

 

‘Traitors’ are something else entirely.

I would suggest you are incorrect. Brexit is a cause, a democratic one at that. Whether you or anyone else agrees with it is immaterial, the majority of the country voted to leave the EU and by our own MPs undermining PM Johnson it gives him very little scope to get the deal we so rightly deserve. Johnson is infact fighting this particular battle on two fronts, the EU and his own parliament with both hands tied around his back.

Labour have voted against Mays deal, voted against Johnsons deal, voted against a no deal and Will vote against a GE, is there anything else they can vote against. Our parliament is no good to man nor beast at the moment, it needs cleansing of the self righteous hypocrites we have for MPs at the moment.

And here is the defination of a traitor, it does fit the MPs that are working behind Johnsons back. They are certainly betraying the Brexit cause.

 

plural noun: traitors

1. a person who betrays someone or something, such as a friend, cause, or principle.

   "he was a traitor to his own class"

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

I would suggest you are incorrect. Brexit is a cause, a democratic one at that. Whether you or anyone else agrees with it is immaterial, the majority of the country voted to leave the EU and by our own MPs undermining PM Johnson it gives him very little scope to get the deal we so rightly deserve. Johnson is infact fighting this particular battle on two fronts, the EU and his own parliament with both hands tied around his back.

Labour have voted against Mays deal, voted against Johnsons deal, voted against a no deal and Will vote against a GE, is there anything else they can vote against. Our parliament is no good to man nor beast at the moment, it needs cleansing of the self righteous hypocrites we have for MPs at the moment.

And here is the defination of a traitor, it does fit the MPs that are working behind Johnsons back. They are certainly betraying the Brexit cause.

 

plural noun: traitors

1. a person who betrays someone or something, such as a friend, cause, or principle.

   "he was a traitor to his own class"

Disagreeing with something the government are doing is also democratic, as is voicing opinions, protesting, lobbying, arguing other points of view.

 

TM deal, referred to variously as ‘BRINO’ and ‘Surrender Deal’.

 

BJ’s deal, = TM’s deal with protections of worker rights taken out and betrayal of NI inserted.

 

Why would anyone vote for that?

 

BJ wants an early GE, it’s not in Labour’s best interests to agree to it, so let’s stick to the planned 2022 date.

 

All within Parliament exercising it rights and duties. 

 

Non of it treason.

[sandyf]

13 minutes ago, vogie said:

 

And here is the defination of a traitor, it does fit the MPs that are working behind Johnsons back. They are certainly betraying the Brexit cause.

 

plural noun: traitors

1. a person who betrays someone or something, such as a friend, cause, or principle.

   "he was a traitor to his own class"

The last 3 PM's have betrayed parliament.

[stephenterry]

It's clear to me that Brexit is not working as it was originally intended - bringing about polarized viewpoints at all levels, even this forum.

 

IMO, the optimum solution  - which would never happen (a lot like ignoring and/or preventing global warming) - would be to scrap Brexit, and start again with a different all parliamentary party approach to our future relationship with the EU. 

 

If there was a referendum along those lines, it could gain public support. I'd even bet it would gain more  votes than Farage.

[vogie]

19 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Disagreeing with something the government are doing is also democratic, as is voicing opinions, protesting, lobbying, arguing other points of view.

 

TM deal, referred to variously as ‘BRINO’ and ‘Surrender Deal’.

 

BJ’s deal, = TM’s deal with protections of worker rights taken out and betrayal of NI inserted.

 

Why would anyone vote for that?

 

BJ wants an early GE, it’s not in Labour’s best interests to agree to it, so let’s stick to the planned 2022 date.

 

All within Parliament exercising it rights and duties. 

 

Non of it treason.

If remainers think that by undermining their own government by secret and not so secret meetings with the very same people our PM is trying to get a deal from is Tickety boo, then that probably says more about them than anyone else, I am sure that if the shoe was on the other foot there would be total anarchy from the 'I don't like democracy brigade'

[Enoon]

Thanks Nick:

Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 - Wikipedia

 

 

 

 

[DannyCarlton]

47 minutes ago, vogie said:

Labour have voted against Mays deal, voted against Johnsons deal, voted against a no deal and Will vote against a GE, is there anything else they can vote against. Our parliament is no good to man nor beast at the moment, it needs cleansing of the self righteous hypocrites we have for MPs at the moment.

And here is the defination of a traitor, it does fit the MPs that are working behind Johnsons back. They are certainly betraying the Brexit cause.

 

You seem to forget that 65% of Labour voters voted to remain. Nothing treacherous about Labour MPs voting, or working, against Brexit. It's what their voters want. Same goes for the Lib Dems and SNP. Why should Labour agree to the GE on Johnsons's terms? They should choose a time that is right for them, next spring. Parliament seems to be working fine for Labour voters/remainers right now.

 

The only "traitors" are the 21 Tory MPs who voted for Benn's bill and thwarted Cummings Johnson's cunning plan to take the country out of Europe with no deal. Do you really think that was in the best interests of the country or in the best interests of Johnson's and Mogg's backers who have laid serious money on the British economy crashing and burning?

 

Johnson only has one option now, to refuse to advance his own bill, wind the clock down and crash out of Europe on January 31st. That's proving increasingly difficult for him and his money men which is why he wants as short an extension as possible or preferably no extension at all.

 

His only hope is Diddy Macron, the modern Napoleon who wants to refuse an extension for various reasons.

 

1. He's been in a power struggle with Merkel since he came to power and opposes anything she proposes for the EU. Good luck with that, the Germans have always found the French to be a walkover.

 

2. He and Johnson have a bromance going on and will be happy to aid his pal in shortening the extension.

 

3. It will give him some kudos with his own voters as they routinely hate the British. He needs that as things really aren't going well for him, at home, at the moment.

 

In conclusion, Macron will be slapped down, we will get our extension until January 31st, the Johnson bill will be progressed through parliament with amendments including a people's vote, remain will win that and Article 50 will be revoked. A GE will be held in the spring with the Brexit Party contesting every seat and splitting the Tory vote down the middle, allowing Labour, minus Corbin, to be returned with a landslide victory. Johnson will be found dead in a ditch, murdered by his backers who will have lost a fortune due to his abject incompetence. 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2019 by DannyCarlton

[DannyCarlton]

32 minutes ago, vogie said:

If remainers think that by undermining their own government by secret and not so secret meetings with the very same people our PM is trying to get a deal from is Tickety boo, then that probably says more about them than anyone else, I am sure that if the shoe was on the other foot there would be total anarchy from the 'I don't like democracy brigade'

Remainers aren't undermining their own government. it's a Tory government. 65% of Labour voters, voted remain. same for SNP, Lib Dems and Ms. Green. It's the opposition's duty to it's electorate to oppose the Tory government. That's why they're commonly referred to as the opposition.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2019 by DannyCarlton

[puipuitom]

6 hours ago, Henryford said:

It was obvious they would agree the extension. They would do anything to keep the billions rolling into their coffers.

When the EU council = heards of governments of the EU member states and the ONLY decission-taking body in the EU, would really go for the money, they would kick out the UK per 31 Oct and start from 1 Nov to levy import duty under WTO-rule over all goods from the UK imported into the EU. Especially when some import replacing EU production could fill in. As the UK imports from the EU products, which are not so easly replacable, a win-win situation for the EU.

[puipuitom]

Would be wise to ask the British public which type of Brexit they actually want: a Canadian deal, an Ukraine deal, a Norwegian deal, a Swiss deal, a May deal, a Boris deal, a no deal, etc.

Then a referendum of the both "winners" for a final conclusion.

My guess: NONE of the brexit deals will get enough votes to overrule a "remain" deal...with last time 48,11 % of the voters.

So, now the EU council gave the British a way to postpone a brexit till …..

 

Dec 2498... the PM of England goes on routine again to the EU headquarters to ask for an delay in a brexit. As tradition, the Gaelic Federation opposes, but.. already from before the entree of Russia to the EU, it needs 3 member states to veto.

Nobody has even an idea, from where this tradition comes from...

[sawadee1947]

8 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Just like Norway

That would be the most stupid deal. 

Norway pays to EU without being a member. No say at all but following EU decisions. 

Anyway I don't expect anything intelligent from Farage. ????

[transam]

1 minute ago, puipuitom said:

Would be wise to ask the British public which type of Brexit they actually want: a Canadian deal, an Ukraine deal, a Norwegian deal, a Swiss deal, a May deal, a Boris deal, a no deal, etc.

Then a referendum of the both "winners" for a final conclusion.

My guess: NONE of the brexit deals will get enough votes to overrule a "remain" deal...with last time 48,11 % of the voters.

So, now the EU council gave the British a way to postpone a brexit till …..

 

Dec 2498... the PM of England goes on routine again to the EU headquarters to ask for an delay in a brexit. As tradition, the Gaelic Federation opposes, but.. already from before the entree of Russia to the EU, it needs 3 member states to veto.

Nobody has even an idea, from where this tradition comes from...

Seems you are still worried about your cash...Read carefully....

 

Across the channel from you, the UK had a vote, the result was the UK is leaving the EU. It is unfortunate for you that the huge shortfall of UK cash that helped bolster EU member countries that have nothing, will probably have to be found from folk like you...

But hey, for quite a while now you have been praising the EU, even with all its faults, so I reckon you paying a bit more will not bother you in your long run happiness.

So, chin up, Turkey will no doubt help you out in the future, that's if they don't become a Russian state first, but don't worry about that yet...  ????

[dunroaming]

8 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Johnson needs to go back to the EU and get a deal which keeps the whole UK in the single market. Its the only deal that will get through Westminster.

"Just like Norway" as Farage said.

No need to go back. Just put in appropriate amendments to Boris's deal and then pass that.  At the moment it is weak and full of ambiguity but that can be rectified. 

[Baerboxer]

6 hours ago, vogie said:

I would suggest you are incorrect. Brexit is a cause, a democratic one at that. Whether you or anyone else agrees with it is immaterial, the majority of the country voted to leave the EU and by our own MPs undermining PM Johnson it gives him very little scope to get the deal we so rightly deserve. Johnson is infact fighting this particular battle on two fronts, the EU and his own parliament with both hands tied around his back.

Labour have voted against Mays deal, voted against Johnsons deal, voted against a no deal and Will vote against a GE, is there anything else they can vote against. Our parliament is no good to man nor beast at the moment, it needs cleansing of the self righteous hypocrites we have for MPs at the moment.

And here is the defination of a traitor, it does fit the MPs that are working behind Johnsons back. They are certainly betraying the Brexit cause.

 

plural noun: traitors

1. a person who betrays someone or something, such as a friend, cause, or principle.

   "he was a traitor to his own class"

 

Despite your rant and however much you dislike it, the fact remains it is Parliament that is the sovereign body in the UK's representative democracy.

 

Not the PM. Not the Government. Not the people in an advisory referendum vote. Not social media. Not the popular Press.

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Despite your rant and however much you dislike it, the fact remains it is Parliament that is the sovereign body in the UK's representative democracy.

 

Not the PM. Not the Government. Not the people in an advisory referendum vote. Not social media. Not the popular Press.

Not much longer!

[dunroaming]

Maybe we should approach this from a different angle.  Another referendum with remain not an option.  List a number of options for leaving deals.  Norway style, Canadian style, Boris Style etc.  That way the Brexiteers feel they have won and the remainers put in the safeguards against the Brexit worries they have.

 

That is not a second referendum because the questions are completely different.

 

The first time round it was simply in or out and the details were left to both sides to make up as they went along.  Result being nobody knew what leaving entailed.  This way everyone would know exactly what each option represented.

[steve187]

28 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Maybe we should approach this from a different angle.  Another referendum with remain not an option.  List a number of options for leaving deals.  Norway style, Canadian style, Boris Style etc.  That way the Brexiteers feel they have won and the remainers put in the safeguards against the Brexit worries they have.

 

That is not a second referendum because the questions are completely different.

 

The first time round it was simply in or out and the details were left to both sides to make up as they went along.  Result being nobody knew what leaving entailed.  This way everyone would know exactly what each option represented.

add no deal to the list, as it was never 'we only leave with a deal' vote

[Opl]

7 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

You seem to forget that 65% of Labour voters voted to remain. Nothing treacherous about Labour MPs voting, or working, against Brexit. It's what their voters want. Same goes for the Lib Dems and SNP. Why should Labour agree to the GE on Johnsons's terms? They should choose a time that is right for them, next spring. Parliament seems to be working fine for Labour voters/remainers right now.

 

The only "traitors" are the 21 Tory MPs who voted for Benn's bill and thwarted Cummings Johnson's cunning plan to take the country out of Europe with no deal. Do you really think that was in the best interests of the country or in the best interests of Johnson's and Mogg's backers who have laid serious money on the British economy crashing and burning?

 

Johnson only has one option now, to refuse to advance his own bill, wind the clock down and crash out of Europe on January 31st. That's proving increasingly difficult for him and his money men which is why he wants as short an extension as possible or preferably no extension at all.

 

His only hope is Diddy Macron, the modern Napoleon who wants to refuse an extension for various reasons.

 

1. He's been in a power struggle with Merkel since he came to power and opposes anything she proposes for the EU. Good luck with that, the Germans have always found the French to be a walkover.

 

2. He and Johnson have a bromance going on and will be happy to aid his pal in shortening the extension.

 

3. It will give him some kudos with his own voters as they routinely hate the British. He needs that as things really aren't going well for him, at home, at the moment.

 

In conclusion, Macron will be slapped down, we will get our extension until January 31st, the Johnson bill will be progressed through parliament with amendments including a people's vote, remain will win that and Article 50 will be revoked. A GE will be held in the spring with the Brexit Party contesting every seat and splitting the Tory vote down the middle, allowing Labour, minus Corbin, to be returned with a landslide victory. Johnson will be found dead in a ditch, murdered by his backers who will have lost a fortune due to his abject incompetence. 

 

 

So you think - in opposition to Macron - that it's better for the UK to remain - extension after extension -  and  interfere in EU décisions (while showing off its disdain)  as leverage to negociate a better deal?  

Edited October 26, 2019 by Opl

[beautifulthailand99]

Not so Cleverly now !

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DannyCarlton]

19 minutes ago, Opl said:

So you think - in opposition to Macron - that it's better for the UK to remain - extension after extension -  and  interfere in EU décisions (while showing off its disdain)  as leverage to negociate a better deal?  

None of which happened of course. I appreciate that Brexiteers don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

[beautifulthailand99]

doublespeak post 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2019 by beautifulthailand99

[William C F Pierce]

7 hours ago, vogie said:

I would suggest you are incorrect. Brexit is a cause, a democratic one at that. Whether you or anyone else agrees with it is immaterial, the majority of the country voted to leave the EU and by our own MPs undermining PM Johnson it gives him very little scope to get the deal we so rightly deserve. Johnson is infact fighting this particular battle on two fronts, the EU and his own parliament with both hands tied around his back.

Labour have voted against Mays deal, voted against Johnsons deal, voted against a no deal and Will vote against a GE, is there anything else they can vote against. Our parliament is no good to man nor beast at the moment, it needs cleansing of the self righteous hypocrites we have for MPs at the moment.

And here is the defination of a traitor, it does fit the MPs that are working behind Johnsons back. They are certainly betraying the Brexit cause.

 

plural noun: traitors

1. a person who betrays someone or something, such as a friend, cause, or principle.

   "he was a traitor to his own class"

It was a non binding Advisory Referendum which was passed by law signed off by the Queen. An information leaflet that said the result would be honoured is denying that the law of it being advisory didn't count. The final decision is down to the MPs not the electorate of a referendum. The same politicians that are negotiating now, were campaigning in the rederendum that the UK would have all the same benits that they have now. People were lied to and they know it. No Government is going to get a deal that is better than the one than the one the UK has already got by being in Europe.

 

The Brexiteers are are all trators to the memory of the UKs 3 Greatest Prime Ministers. William Gladstone (who won the most General Elections [4]) said in 1887 when the UK was a Great Empire that Britain was a part of Europe. Winston Churchill in 1946 call for a United States of Europe and Margaret Thatcher help to create the single market for the free movement of goods. Yes Brexiteers are the real taitors to the UKs real history. Led by Nigel Farage the Anlo German who is so proud to be British he travels everywhere on a German Passport.

 

I admit to being on 4 marches on Parliament so far for a Peoples Vote that is "Binding" by law. Along with many other people I write to MPs to keep the pressure up to do this. More and more people want this vote and the momentum in the country is now overwhelmingly against Brexit. Over 200 Opinion Polls since 2017 consistantly show a large majority of people are now against Brexit. The way things are going there will 2 Election next year. A General Election and another referendum. The only people that want to push Brexit through against the present will of the people, are the Big Money Political Carpet Baggers. They don't care even though over £1.2 Trillion of British Buiness has already moved to Europe. That is why the value of the Pound is so low.

[beautifulthailand99]

Operation Brock lock and loaded - we voted to LEAVE - just get on with it man and fulfill the WILL OF THE PEOPLE. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/25/no-deal-brexit-contingency-plan-implemented-on-kent-roads