Democrats set Thursday vote on U.S. House path in Trump impeachment probe

[johnnybangkok]

I see the usual Trump apologists are out in force today, deflecting as best they can whilst questioning every aspect of a legitimate legal process. It never fails to amaze me that you guys are just so willing to let go of the rule of law and moral decency for a bump in your share price and a promise to get rid of them thar illegals.

Fortunately there are still enough people out there with a some semblance of morality who will not allow this stain on the office of POTUS to get away with his nonsense any more and though a bunch of spineless Senators will in all probability save their own skin rather than do the right thing, this is not going to go away easily or quickly and will at least show sane people what they have known all along; this racist, misogynistic, neurotic, petty, vindictive excuse for a human being is also a criminal, hell bent on turning America into his own private dictatorship.

[atyclb]

10 minutes ago, stevenl said:

36 minutes ago, Solinvictus said:

Thank God himself for Adam Shifty Shift. He and AOC are some of the best patriots known to both MAGA and fellow patriot supporters.

 

Cheers to draining the swamp! Impeachment? Who knows?

You do realise that that kind of name calling makes one look extremely unintelligent.

 agree, the intelligent call the american electorate "deplorables"

[bristolboy]

5 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 agree, the intelligent call the american electorate "deplorables"

Rather the not so perceptive  or honest attribute the comments of 1 person of a certain political persuasion to all persons of roughly the same persuasion.

Edited October 29, 2019 by bristolboy

[alex8912]

55 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

For someone who claims not to like Trump, you suffer from a remarkable array of pro-trump delusions.

"winning on trade"? Really? What has he won?

Trump's chief and ridiculous criterion is balance of trade. That has ballooned negatively since he came into office. So by his own standard he's losing. And what major trade agreement has he concluded or even finished negotiating that was a major improvement on what existed before? What has he done that proves "Trade wars are good and easy to win."

And "Trump made the economy better"? Because the economy continued to improve therefore Trump did it? Ever of of post hoc propter hoc. (After this therefore because of this.)

His massive giveaway to the rich has actually done nothing to spur business investment which is in a decline. If manufacturing were considered all by itself separate from the rest of the economy, it would be in a recession.

 

And the polls overwhelmingly show that a majority, are in favor of the impeachment investigation. Whereas only a plurality are actually in favor of impeachment.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/impeachment-polls/?ex_cid=rrpromo

That's a huge change from what the polls were showing a month ago.

 

 

I’d leave a wide gap of error for those polls. If you had your boots on the ground and spent time in the USA recently you would understand what real voters care about. Even in liberal bastions like Cambridge MA. It’s easy to find what you want to hear or read when miles away. Many are having a great life in the United States right now and that is often how people vote. When out in bars ( yes bars) and at local coffee shops and just out and about in New England for example. The rage you read on TVF is simply absent. That is the real truth for a lot of us.  It’s too OTT here ( and often certain national media ) but not very realistic at all. 

[bristolboy]

3 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

I’d leave a wide gap of error for those polls. If you had your boots on the ground and spent time in the USA recently you would understand what real voters care about. Even in liberal bastions like Cambridge MA. It’s easy to find what you want to hear or read when miles away. Many are having a great life in the United States right now and that is often how people vote. When out in bars ( yes bars) and at local coffee shops and just out and about in New England for example. The rage you read on TVF is simply absent. That is the real truth for a lot of us.  It’s too OTT here ( and often certain national media ) but not very realistic at all. 

Maybe you would but by and large polls are quite accurate. Five thirty eight is a particularly good source. It's just that the occasional errors stick in people's memories while the mostly correct calls, being unremarkable, are not recollected.

[J Town]

6 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Wow. Brilliant. Instagram memes. I am destroyed by the depth of your wit.

The best will be watching the screaming for 5 more years.

Tell you what - you prove ME wrong. Show evidence of Republicans NOT gerrymandering, NOT closing down polling places, NOT suppressing bills that are currently on Mitch "Grim Reaper" McConnell's (HIS words, I'm just repeating them!) desk that would protect our elections from foreign intervention, or fighting for Native Americans to use their only available address to vote. The whole point of the image is to let you know I won't waste any more time doing your research, just to have you say "Oh wow, NPR? Really?"

[alex8912]

3 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Maybe you would but by and large polls are quite accurate. Five thirty eight is a particularly good source. It's just that the occasional errors stick in people's memories while the mostly correct calls, being unremarkable, are not recollected.

I’ll stick to my boots on the ground theory for now. You can easily seek out a poll that appeals to your mind set but you can’t change the vibe and tone of real conversations with real Americans ( many educated ones to boot if that matters and everyday workers as well) but the habis who carry on here at TVF are always good entertainment from time to time. I just stand by my saying Americans don’t vote on what some here think they vote on. That’s it. Maybe there can be a poll for this. 

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed

 

A post using a trolling meme has been removed as well as the replies. 

[Srikcir]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

Democrats in Congress, answering Republican complaints that their impeachment investigation of U.S. President Donald Trump is being conducted in secret, plan a vote on Thursday on a format for going public with their inquiry

No, it is not to answer to the House Republican complaints on the House impeachment process, albeit all their complaints proved false.

The House decides the process for impeachment through to the vote on impeachment by the whole House.

The current House Speaker (elected previously by majority vote of the House of Representatives) can decide to merely follow the House rules adopted for the last impeachment process (POTUS Clinton) without a vote or change the rules with a vote. Obviously, there will be a change in the previous rules. The vote is open and by all House Representatives. Following the rules vote will be open hearings, development of the Articles of impeachment and vote on the Articles.

[bristolboy]

5 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

I’ll stick to my boots on the ground theory for now. You can easily seek out a poll that appeals to your mind set but you can’t change the vibe and tone of real conversations with real Americans ( many educated ones to boot if that matters and everyday workers as well) but the habis who carry on here at TVF are always good entertainment from time to time. I just stand by my saying Americans don’t vote on what some here think they vote on. That’s it. Maybe there can be a poll for this. 

You can even more easily fall victim to your own biases prejudices and otherwise. It' seems to me that it takes a lot of hubris to believe your method, such as it is, is going to be more accurate than the combined work of lots of really intelligent people.

[metisdead]

Some more troll posts have been removed. 

[candide]

6 hours ago, riclag said:

 Agree,conduct inquiry! They will be using this  inquiry to control the news cycle to manipulate  public opinion!

"Even if the House impeaches Trump, he would face a trial in the Republican-controlled Senate, which for the moment seems unlikely to convict the president and force his ouster"

They will be coordinating with their propaganda arm! They have spun and twisted all the closed door faceless witness testimony to feed their moon howling base !

 I never thought I see the day but the  party of impeachment have destroyed America's trust in future elections!

I see it coming... Trump's supporters will soon complain that hearings are public.

Edited October 29, 2019 by candide

[J Town]

4 minutes ago, candide said:

I see it coming... Trump's supporters will soon complain that hearings are public.

THE REPUBLICANS JUST DID! They are complaining about making the hearings public because it took too long to get to this inquiry vote.

[xylophone]

Bristolboy said: (And I thought it was a good post but cannot locate it now??)

 

For someone who claims not to like Trump, you suffer from a remarkable array of pro-trump delusions.

 

"winning on trade"? Really? What has he won?

 

Trump's chief and ridiculous criterion is balance of trade. That has ballooned negatively since he came into office. So by his own standard he's losing. And what major trade agreement has he concluded or even finished negotiating that was a major improvement on what existed before? What has he done that proves "Trade wars are good and easy to win."

 

And "Trump made the economy better"? Because the economy continued to improve therefore Trump did it? Ever of of post hoc propter hoc. (After this therefore because of this.)

 

His massive giveaway to the rich has actually done nothing to spur business investment which is in a decline. If manufacturing were considered all by itself separate from the rest of the economy, it would be in a recession.

 

And the polls overwhelmingly show that a majority, are in favor of the impeachment investigation. Whereas only a plurality are actually in favor of impeachment.

[J Town]

4 minutes ago, xylophone said:

And the polls overwhelmingly show that a majority, are in favor of the impeachment investigation. Whereas only a plurality are actually in favor of impeachment.

Full impeachment and removal is at this moment just under 50% according to 538 polls which take an average of all national polls. What's interesting is that independents are at 47.5% and that number is starting to climb swiftly. Compared to the Nixon impeachment timeline, this is taking off like a rocket.

Edited October 29, 2019 by J Town

[Redline]

5 hours ago, riclag said:

 "Partisans who lower the bar to impeachment in order to punish a president they revile — or raise it to save one they support — may, under future presidents, live to regret the standard they’ve set".

https://www.cato.org/publications/white-paper/indispensable-remedy-broad-scope-constitutions-impeachment-power

It's sad, that the founder Alex Hamilton who was quoted in my OP seen this coming  ! 

But thanks for your side of it

 

He’s committed crimes and is morally bankrupt-lock him up-he’s been doing it his whole life-pathetic excuse for an American 

[bristolboy]

44 minutes ago, J Town said:

Full impeachment and removal is at this moment just under 50% according to 538 polls which take an average of all national polls. What's interesting is that independents are at 47.5% and that number is starting to climb swiftly. Compared to the Nixon impeachment timeline, this is taking off like a rocket.

Here's the moving average of polls that just ask about going ahead with impeachment hearings:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/impeachment-polls/?ex_cid=rrpromo

Notice the spike after the revelations about Trump's conversation with Zelensky?

[Misty]

50 minutes ago, xylophone said:

And "Trump made the economy better"? Because the economy continued to improve therefore Trump did it? Ever of of post hoc propter hoc. (After this therefore because of this.)

Some do think that "Trump made the economy better," but the reality is the US economy is overheating on a sugar high from  unsustainable corporate tax cuts. The country should not be running trillion dollar deficits at the peak of an economic cycle - there's nothing "conservative" about doing this.  Those cheering now are a little like children allowed to eat ice cream for dinner every night.  Sure it tastes good, but there will be a future bill to pay.

[TPI]

I always thought that the citizens of the US were, above all, even handed when it came to politics. Remember that whoever you voted for, the "government" always gets in! Why are the Dem's so blinded by the fact that the electors let them down and elected (for them) the wrong candidate? Don't they understand that the next time it will be a Dem POTUS and guess what is going to happen? Geez louise I'm from Oz and I'll be dammed if I can see what what all the fuss is about? There is no way that the released conversation would justify any punishment, if that was the case any conversation in any bar would have half the world in jail! Your country is waiting for the adults to take over, what about the infrastructure your country desperately needs is this more important than your grandchildren's opportunity to have a good life? 

[bristolboy]

12 minutes ago, TPI said:

I always thought that the citizens of the US were, above all, even handed when it came to politics. Remember that whoever you voted for, the "government" always gets in! Why are the Dem's so blinded by the fact that the electors let them down and elected (for them) the wrong candidate? Don't they understand that the next time it will be a Dem POTUS and guess what is going to happen? Geez louise I'm from Oz and I'll be dammed if I can see what what all the fuss is about? There is no way that the released conversation would justify any punishment, if that was the case any conversation in any bar would have half the world in jail! Your country is waiting for the adults to take over, what about the infrastructure your country desperately needs is this more important than your grandchildren's opportunity to have a good life? 

"There is no way that the released conversation would justify any punishment, if that was the case any conversation in any bar would have half the world in jail! "

Likening the President's conversation with Zelensky to bar talk, on the other hand, is nonsense. What consequences would ensue from a bar conversation? He used the power of his office to enlist support from another nation against a domestic political opponent. The only valid similarity I can see in your comparison is that Trump usually does sound like someone who's had one too many. And that without the benefit of alcohol.

[MAGA 2020]

9 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

There is no requirement for a vote to go forward with impeachment.

 

This does however signal that the investigation hearings are about to go public.

 

You objected when they were behind closed doors, you are going to love this next public phase.

With all the witness nothing new is added that the transcripts dosen't already provide. Just who are we to believe, a Ukrainian President and the Greatest President ever in America or some 10 minutes of fame lying implanted liberal from the Kenyan Obama. My money on the two President's. The libs are in dire straits 99% up for relection and felony charges awaiting them.  The 2020 election will be a landslide in favor of President Trump. 

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, MAGA 2020 said:

With all the witness nothing new is added that the transcripts dosen't already provide. Just who are we to believe, a Ukrainian President and the Greatest President ever in America or some 10 minutes of fame lying implanted liberal from the Kenyan Obama. My money on the two President's. The libs are in dire straits 99% up for relection and felony charges awaiting them.  The 2020 election will be a landslide in favor of President Trump. 

Greatest American president ever? Good sarcasm. Well I'm sure Putin thinks that anyway. 

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and replies about tax cuts have been removed. 

[candide]

1 hour ago, Crazy Alex said:

Well yes.... if you pay the most in federal income tax, you save the most. What are we supposed to do, give most of the tax cuts to the bottom 40% who already pay NOTHING?

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/81-million-americans-wont-pay-any-federal-income-taxes-this-year-heres-why-2018-04-16

 

And actually, some of that 40% already pay less than nothing.

The problem is not give tax cuts 'in general'. The problem is to give tax cuts which are financed by additional debts.

Edited October 29, 2019 by candide

[AussieBob18]

What I think is going to happen:

1.  The House Dems will hold an impeachment enquiry and will twist and turn 'evidence' and drag it on for as long as possible to suit their political aims in the 2020 election;

2.  The House Dems will vote to send the impeachment results to the Senate for investigation and decision;

3.  The GOP Senate will quickly review the 'evidence' provided and will quickly vote and decline the impeachment;

4.  Trump will win 2020 election as POTUS in a landslide;

5.  The GOP will win control of both the House and the Senate;

3.  In 2021 all the key Dems and Govt Employees (past and present) involved in fake Russia Hoax and the Fake Impeachment will be impeached by the GOP House and they will be investigated thoroughly in the GOP Majority Senate.

 

The only thing I am uncertain about is if the GOP Senate will have 66 Senators will to vote against those charged.  But given that those charged are not actually the POTUS, and many will have undeniable proven facts of their misdemeaners (like Schitft), and the Dems will be looking for a 'new beginning' after the disaster of 2020 election, then I reckon some Dems will agree to dismiss and charge.  I can name at least 1 Democrat that would vote against Hillary ????

  

Edited October 29, 2019 by AussieBob18

[bristolboy]

23 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

What I think is going to happen:

1.  The House Dems will hold an impeachment enquiry and will twist and turn 'evidence' and drag it on for as long as possible to suit their political aims in the 2020 election;

2.  The House Dems will vote to send the impeachment results to the Senate for investigation and decision;

3.  The GOP Senate will quickly review the 'evidence' provided and will quickly vote and decline the impeachment;

4.  Trump will win 2020 election as POTUS in a landslide;

5.  The GOP will win control of both the House and the Senate;

3.  In 2021 all the key Dems and Govt Employees (past and present) involved in fake Russia Hoax and the Fake Impeachment will be impeached by the GOP House and they will be investigated thoroughly in the GOP Majority Senate.

 

The only thing I am uncertain about is if the GOP Senate will have 66 Senators will to vote against those charged.  But given that those charged are not actually the POTUS, and many will have undeniable proven facts of their misdemeaners (like Schitft), and the Dems will be looking for a 'new beginning' after the disaster of 2020 election, then I reckon some Dems will agree to dismiss and charge.  I can name at least 1 Democrat that would vote against Hillary ????

  

I gotta say it's very impressive that you think that the Senate will sometime in the future be passing judgement on people involved in "fake Russia hoax" (if a hoax is fake, does that mean it's actually genuine and based on fact?) and "Fake Impeachment." Clearly your crystal ball is looking into the future of an alternative Universe where the USA has a different Constitution and Senators get to vote on such matters. Doesn't work that way in this universe.

I'd say your prediction is actually an extreme right winger's wet dream.

Edited October 29, 2019 by bristolboy

[khaowong1]

9 hours ago, riclag said:

 "Partisans who lower the bar to impeachment in order to punish a president they revile — or raise it to save one they support — may, under future presidents, live to regret the standard they’ve set".

https://www.cato.org/publications/white-paper/indispensable-remedy-broad-scope-constitutions-impeachment-power

It's sad, that the founder Alex Hamilton who was quoted in my OP seen this coming  ! 

But thanks for your side of it

 

Thanks riclag, for just about the only rational voice in this post.  I'm sure you noticed as did I, that in all this screaming from the Democrats about the President talking to the President of Ukraine, no one even bats an eye that Hunter Biden was given a job paying $50,000 a month there for something he has no idea or experience about, which by the way, started back in 2016 when J. Biden was Vice President.  I personally think the head Democrats are all afraid that if President Trump stays in office, he's going to un-mask and bring to the light, all the nefarious things they have done during Obama's tenure. 

[khaowong1]

2 hours ago, MAGA 2020 said:

With all the witness nothing new is added that the transcripts dosen't already provide. Just who are we to believe, a Ukrainian President and the Greatest President ever in America or some 10 minutes of fame lying implanted liberal from the Kenyan Obama. My money on the two President's. The libs are in dire straits 99% up for relection and felony charges awaiting them.  The 2020 election will be a landslide in favor of President Trump. 

Amen.  ????

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by khaowong1

[jm91]

4 minutes ago, khaowong1 said:

Thanks riclag, for just about the only rational voice in this post.  I'm sure you noticed as did I, that in all this screaming from the Democrats about the President talking to the President of Ukraine, no one even bats an eye that Hunter Biden was given a job paying $50,000 a month there for something he has no idea or experience about, which by the way, started back in 2016 when J. Biden was Vice President.  I personally think the head Democrats are all afraid that if President Trump stays in office, he's going to un-mask and bring to the light, all the nefarious things they have done during Obama's tenure. 

Nice spin and diversion.  What about what about.... 

The issue is trump. Did trump commit a crime. Maybe yes maybe no. 

But the allegations are serious and there are many people who were concerned about trump's behavior  - it may have been illegal and it possibly undermined national security. 

Those need to be investigated...that is the constitutional DUTY of congress. 

 

Stick to the issue  Did trump commit a crime? 

  

[bristolboy]

7 minutes ago, khaowong1 said:

Thanks riclag, for just about the only rational voice in this post.  I'm sure you noticed as did I, that in all this screaming from the Democrats about the President talking to the President of Ukraine, no one even bats an eye that Hunter Biden was given a job paying $50,000 a month there for something he has no idea or experience about, which by the way, started back in 2016 when J. Biden was Vice President.  I personally think the head Democrats are all afraid that if President Trump stays in office, he's going to un-mask and bring to the light, all the nefarious things they have done during Obama's tenure. 

And Ivanka was granted a load of trademarks by the Chinese government with unusual rapidity  around the time that Trump decided to let the Chinese company ZTE live because Trump said lots of jobs in China were at stake. So why no quid pro quos in that case? Because there is no evidence apart from the juxtaposition of those 2 incidents to support it.

Same goes for the Biden incident. As has been exhaustively documented, Biden was carrying out US policy. We also now know that a Ukrainian gas mogul fighting extradition to the US was behind all these allegations. He hates Joe Biden because his intervention dislodged said mogul from his corrupt perch in the Ukraine.