Transfering 800k bhat via Transferwise--not a good experience

[Roy Baht]

On 10/29/2019 at 7:05 PM, Jip99 said:

 

 

Americans certainly have more issues with Thai banks. I opend an account at a rural branch of Bangkok Bank and the manager popped to ask if I was American. I replied that I wasn't and he said "That's OK then......... we don't like Americans"..

 

I was slightly taken aback but was aware that Thais can be direct (to the point of racist) at times.

Thai banks "don't like Americans" because the US requires FATCA compliance, which is extra paperwork for them.

https://www.ktb.co.th/en/content/about-ktb/corporate-governance/fatca

[Jip99]

1 hour ago, Roy Baht said:

Thai banks "don't like Americans" because the US requires FATCA compliance, which is extra paperwork for them.

https://www.ktb.co.th/en/content/about-ktb/corporate-governance/fatca

 

 

I am sure you are right................... but in this case the guy just didn't like Americans.

[5633572526]

On 10/29/2019 at 8:31 PM, lopburi3 said:

Transferwise is indeed targeted to lower levels of transfer in the 1-5k range for USD it would appear and for that/income seems to work well when used with Bangkok Bank and selecting the option to send the money for Thai Visa reasons from selection choice.  Indeed they seem to have listened and offer an option that if we check results in the FTT code.

 

As for the 15k limit perhaps that is the US trigger now (recall it used to be over 10k in most of country 30 years ago but was 4k in Florida for money laundering checks).  As Transferwise cost increases with amount makes sense to use SWIFT for larger transfers (remember to send USD however).  

Transferred $40,000.00 usd in October no problem.

also don’t use transferwise because their money making model involves keeping money “in country” as opposed to international transfers details can be found on their website. Also In my experience transferwise has been double the price of a wire transfer from my bank.

[lopburi3]

4 minutes ago, 5633572526 said:

Also In my experience transferwise has been double the price of a wire transfer from my bank.

But remember the cost is often more than offset by the better exchange rate obtained.  Even larger amounts are often cost effective from Transferwise.

[Max69xl]

4 hours ago, 5633572526 said:

Transferred $40,000.00 usd in October no problem.

also don’t use transferwise because their money making model involves keeping money “in country” as opposed to international transfers details can be found on their website. Also In my experience transferwise has been double the price of a wire transfer from my bank.

Use correct bank in Thailand and choose the correct "Reason for transfer", and the money will arrive as foreign/international. When transferring large sums, the cost for a transfer using TW can be higher than a transfer using let's say Swift. If you transfer $US equal to 65k (a monthly pension) baht, TW will be the cheaper option. 

[JimmyJ]

8 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

But remember the cost is often more than offset by the better exchange rate obtained.  Even larger amounts are often cost effective from Transferwise.

Is there a way to find out for the sake of comparison what the exchange rates for Transferwise and for Swift are right now?

Edited November 8, 2019 by JimmyJ

[JDGRUEN]

I have posted the following 3-4 times on various TVF threads, but from reading certain posts - it bears repeating... When using TW to transfer funds to a Thailand Bank wanting to get "International Transfer" in the Account register for that Transfer Deposit AND getting FTT encoding in the Bankbook update printout for the same transfer ONLY works with a Bangkok Bank Account and using the option for sending "Funds for for term stay in Thailand". 

I am 100% sure of this claim due to extensive testing by several hundred TW customers who are members of my Facebook Group. 

This method described above does not work with the two other TW banking partners in Thailand Nor with any other Thai Bank. 

The best you can get with another bank beside B.B. is a FET (a Foreign Exchange Transaction Form) denoting that the transfer indeed originated from a foreign source. Obtaining the FET is a bit of a bureaucratic hassle however and it has been reported that some less than enlightened I/Os will not accept FETs as proof of an International Transfer. 

 

My FB Group is TransferWise Solutions. 

[lopburi3]

26 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

Is there a way to find out for the sake of comparison what the exchange rates for Transferwise and for Swift are right now?

Go to Transferwise and check - they present it upfront.  For USD it is currently 30.3650.  Fee for 1k is $10.77

For Swift it will be the bank TT rate (as long as you send USD) and for BBL that is currently 30.22 and a fee of 1/4% at Thai end in range 200-500 baht.

[john terry1001]

1 hour ago, JDGRUEN said:

I have posted the following 3-4 times on various TVF threads, but from reading certain posts - it bears repeating... When using TW to transfer funds to a Thailand Bank wanting to get "International Transfer" in the Account register for that Transfer Deposit AND getting FTT encoding in the Bankbook update printout for the same transfer ONLY works with a Bangkok Bank Account and using the option for sending "Funds for for term stay in Thailand". 

Not strictly true/accurate. In getting an International Transfer recorded you are NOT restricted to using the Bangkok bank, although that does seem by far the most popular bank. 

 

TW have three partner Thai banks, Bangkok bank, Kasikorn and TBM. Bangkok bank use FTT as their international code. Kasikorn and TMB have their own international codes. 

 

1. to have a transfer recorded as an International transfer you must have an account with ANY ONE of those three banks.

 

2. The bank and account you have chosen must be tagged on your TW account as the preferred direct route for your transfer.

 

3. On the TW online transfer application, that Thai bank you've chosen to use must be selected as the destination for your transfer.

 

4. In the 'reason for transfer' drop down box you must select the 'funds for long term stay in Thailand' option. It is the TW transfer department who then 'marry up' the tag you selected (2), the destination account (3) with the reason for transfer (4) to route your transfer to your chosen bank.

 

*note you can only use ONE OF TW's THREE PARTNER BANKS to get the international code on your account. It won't work with using any other Thai bank. But you are not restricted to just using the Bangkok bank* 

[Kadilo]

3 hours ago, JDGRUEN said:

I have posted the following 3-4 times on various TVF threads, but from reading certain posts - it bears repeating... When using TW to transfer funds to a Thailand Bank wanting to get "International Transfer" in the Account register for that Transfer Deposit AND getting FTT encoding in the Bankbook update printout for the same transfer ONLY works with a Bangkok Bank Account and using the option for sending "Funds for for term stay in Thailand". 

I am 100% sure of this claim due to extensive testing by several hundred TW customers who are members of my Facebook Group. 

This method described above does not work with the two other TW banking partners in Thailand Nor with any other Thai Bank. 

The best you can get with another bank beside B.B. is a FET (a Foreign Exchange Transaction Form) denoting that the transfer indeed originated from a foreign source. Obtaining the FET is a bit of a bureaucratic hassle however and it has been reported that some less than enlightened I/Os will not accept FETs as proof of an International Transfer. 

 

My FB Group is TransferWise Solutions. 

Thank you for reiterating the point. I’ve also stated it many times but many seem determined to keep plugging TW and potentially misleading people who are dependent on the income method. 

Once again.........if you bank with either KK or TMB and use TW, even if you tag your account and use the correct drop down option for long stay, you are NOT guaranteed to get an international coding. Their words not mine. 

 

Yes, you can follow this up by getting a credit advice  slip from the bank (if you manage to get someone who actually understands what you need , i couldn’t)

 

 

Clara L (TransferWise)  Oct 11, 12:28 CEST  Thank you for your email. I have asked for this to be added to your transfers going forward. I do have to advise, that there may be times that the transfer can not be paid out via the desired route, this may be due to unforeseen circumstances and issues. We can not always guarantee it  I will update you once the tag has been added successfully to your account.. In the meantime, let me know if you have any other questions today - I am happy to help ! Thanks, Clara

Edited November 8, 2019 by Kadilo

[john terry1001]

26 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

Once again.........if you bank with either KK or TMB and use TW, even if you tag your account and use the correct drop down option for long stay, you are NOT guaranteed to get an international coding. Their words not mine.

Show me one banking system that does guarantee a transfer 100% to give an international code. Nobody will offer that guarantee 100%. 

 

UK banks DON'T. I have proof 100% of that.......and as they use SWIFT when it fails that's also proof that SWIFT is no guarantee either. 

Then show proof that people using TW with Kasikorn/TMB correctly since August who still haven't got an international code.

[Kadilo]

18 minutes ago, john terry1001 said:

Show me one banking system that does guarantee a transfer 100% to give an international code. Nobody will offer that guarantee 100%. 

 

UK banks DON'T. I have proof 100% of that.......and as they use SWIFT when it fails that's also proof that SWIFT is no guarantee either. 

Then show proof that people using TW with Kasikorn/TMB correctly since August who still haven't got an international code.

I’m just passing on what I’ve  been told by them as recent as October and my personal experience using SWIFT. 

My experience of SWIFT from

my UK bank to KK has shown their International Code (TF) every time for the nine months I’ve been using them. So you can say it’s not guaranteed and maybe it’s not but it’s ticked the box for me so far. 

I don’t know others experience since August, but by their own words it’s not guaranteed so From my personal experience I will continue to use SWIFT as it does what I require consistently and reliably. 

The gentlemen who posted before with the FB group clearly has a wide selection of members who have clearly experienced problems too. 

 

For clarity I’ve absolutely nothing against TW. If i was using any other method except the Income method I would still be using them. Their service is excellent but at the end of the day their transfers are not international, they are internal so imo you will always be crossing your fingers each month.

Therefore for me, and me only, a risk I don’t want to take when SWIFT are genuine International transfers and are delivering what I need.   

 

People need to hear both sides and judge for themselves. 

 

 

 

 

[lopburi3]

9 hours ago, Kadilo said:

People need to hear both sides and judge for themselves. 

But in this case it is not as clear as 'sides' but more 'shades of gray'.  SWIFT code will depend on transfer bank used and that could change at any time so what works today may not tomorrow - but agree in general most will be treated as international.  Where as TW will most often not be unless using 3 banks with accounts and selecting Thailand stay as reason for transfer.  But this seems to be canceled out a bit by immigration becoming familiar with TW and being able to read and confirm paperwork (they can ask you to download at desk to confirm if any doubt - much easier than check normal bank statements or paperwork).  So much will depend on general immigration policy after New Years - if they depend only Thai bank confirmation or if you allow supporting paperwork when there is an issue.  Currently immigration seems to be able and willing to read TW documents and we should all hope that continues.

[jacko45k]

22 hours ago, 5633572526 said:

Also In my experience transferwise has been double the price of a wire transfer from my bank.

Generally the benefit comes from a far superior exchange rate Transferwise offer compared to what the Thai banks give. 

[john terry1001]

12 hours ago, Kadilo said:

People need to hear both sides and judge for themselves. 

I agree with that........but have you actually asked any of the High St banks and had any reply from them? I have.

 

I, like many others, was concerned and worried when the new rules came into force at the beginning of this year so tried to find out what my options were. I, along with two friends, had made many transfers from TW, Lloyds, Halifax, HSBC and Nationwide in the past so my first port of call was to look at the transfer history before phoning and asking all of them.

 

I also had three Thai bank accounts I had been sending money to: Bangkok bank, Kasikorn and Krung Thai.

 

On previous transfers. the results for all four banks were similar, about 75-80% arrived as international transfers with the remainder shown as a local transfer, dummy code, bahtnet, etc and was similar regardless of the Thai bank we sent to. Again, when I phoned them, explained our situation in Thailand and asked about guaranteeing an international transfer every time, all four banks gave similar versions of the same answer, which was: They always use internationally recognised and accepted routes to transfer money and that, on popular transfers around the world, would usually use the same route, but that could vary/change sometimes by necessity. They were concerned about complaints regarding transfers but all said they had no control over the code that Thai banks used on their customers accounts to record the receipt of a transfer. They all also said, if sending GDP they had no control over the exchange rate we received, but if we allowed the UK banks to convert to Thai baht before sending they could guarantee the exchange rate before sending. (Although, of course as we all know, this would be an even lower rate) 

In a nutshell, they all independently said they provide an excellent service but can't guarantee their normal/usual transfer route will always be used and that they have no control over the codes that Thai banks use to record transfers. 

 

With TW, at the time I had been using them monthly for nearly two years. I had tended to transfer more (over 50%) via Bangkok bank. The majority of all transfers had arrived as an international transfer but all transfers sent via Krung Thai were classified as local transfers. Of Bangkok bank and Kasikorn most were international transfers with the occasional local bank coding.

The big difference came when I spoke to them. A few others had contacted them before me so they were already aware of the problem. They said they were in the process of looking at changes they might make in the future but, in the meantime, had set up a temporary system whereby we could contact them by phone/email with every transfer we made so that the transfer could be manually tagged to be routed to our preferred Thai bank. They couldn't guarantee it would always work but hoped it would be an improvement until they could find a permanent solution. This worked for me every time until July when I had a local bank transfer. I contacted both TW and Bangkok bank who both told me it was a one off issue, TW had been doing a software upgrade and things should be even better in the future. TW did say that, because of the financial system, some rare anomalies were out of their control so they couldn't guarantee 100% that all transfers  would receive the correct code but added, under normal circumstances we shouldn't have any problems in the future. And since that one problem in early July, again, every single transfer had come FTT.

 

For me, TW did far more than the banks to resolve the problem. The four banks I contacted all gave a standard 'this is the way we work - take it or leave it' attitude/reply to my queries and they couldn't guarantee anything would change in the future . I've not used any bank for a transfer since January so can't comment on their 'international transfer code' success rate this year but am more than happy with the success rate TW give me.

 

Like you, this my personal account of how I went about resolving the problem. You seem to have had a different result to me.I have no idea whether you went into more or less detail than me to make your decision, I can only say I'm happy with what I did and the result I get, so all I can say is 'each to his own'.????

[OZinPattaya]

From OP. Just to give people here a vague concept of the difference of my transferring (I believe USD 27,500) via SWIFT through Wells Fargo, was that the transfer cost was somewhere around $145 USD. TransferWise would have been approx. USD 194.00. Figure not exact. But it does seem clear that the SWIFT method in this particular case was the less expensive. Does not mean it will always be.

[lopburi3]

6 hours ago, OZinPattaya said:

From OP. Just to give people here a vague concept of the difference of my transferring (I believe USD 27,500) via SWIFT through Wells Fargo, was that the transfer cost was somewhere around $145 USD. TransferWise would have been approx. USD 194.00. Figure not exact. But it does seem clear that the SWIFT method in this particular case was the less expensive. Does not mean it will always be.

What you need to determine is what amount of baht will be deposited in Thailand account - Transferwise by using a better exchange rate will often be a much better value and result in more baht even with a higher fee.  It is easy to check - transferwise provides the baht amount upfront - for bank you have to deduct fees from USD amount/multiply by TT of receiving bank and then subtract 1/4% in range 200-500 baht.  

[Max69xl]

9 hours ago, OZinPattaya said:

From OP. Just to give people here a vague concept of the difference of my transferring (I believe USD 27,500) via SWIFT through Wells Fargo, was that the transfer cost was somewhere around $145 USD. TransferWise would have been approx. USD 194.00. Figure not exact. But it does seem clear that the SWIFT method in this particular case was the less expensive. Does not mean it will always be.

$US27500 is a quite large sum and will have a high fee when using TW. 

I think if you compare fees and also include exchange rates in the equation, the difference won't be that big.

When transferring monthly sums equal to 65k baht I think TW will be cheaper and the exchange rate better. 

[Jack Walker]

Transferwise is still the best method for most of people.

And they were improve theie risk control policies recently. Maybe the number is too big.

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by Jack Walker

[lopburi3]

6 minutes ago, Jack Walker said:

Transferwise is still the best method for most of people.

And they were improve theie risk control policies recently. Maybe the number is too big.

 

Wise is definitely not the best method for large sums such as $27k as fee is based on amount transferred and exchange advantage will not come close to paying extra fees.  For amounts in the $5,000 or so range it is indeed often the best choice but a SWIFT wire transfer is often much better for large amounts - as well as fact money is documented as coming from a foreign source without any possible issues.

[Jack Walker]

12 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Wise is definitely not the best method for large sums such as $27k as fee is based on amount transferred and exchange advantage will not come close to paying extra fees.  For amounts in the $5,000 or so range it is indeed often the best choice but a SWIFT wire transfer is often much better for large amounts - as well as fact money is documented as coming from a foreign source without any possible issues.

yes, you are right. if the amount is big, you can go SWIFT directly. Or you can also use ACH if your account is in US, as most of the Thailand bank has their account supports ACH in US.

[lopburi3]

1 minute ago, Jack Walker said:

yes, you are right. if the amount is big, you can go SWIFT directly. Or you can also use ACH if your account is in US, as most of the Thailand bank has their account supports ACH in US.

Actually there is only one Thai bank that I know of that supports ACH payments and they require international format which is not done for most personal accounts.  

[Jack Walker]

6 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Actually there is only one Thai bank that I know of that supports ACH payments and they require international format which is not done for most personal accounts.    

 

Which bank do you have? and do you have the Thailand account, or US dollar account?

 

Kasikorn Bank

https://www.kasikornbank.com/en/international-business/global-money-transfer/pages/international-transferviakplus.aspx

 

Bangkok Bank

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-US-to-Thailand-via-Bangkok-Bank-NewYork-branch

 

 

[Jack Walker]

7 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Actually there is only one Thai bank that I know of that supports ACH payments and they require international format which is not done for most personal accounts.  

 

And actually if you are going to have big amount US dollar, and you want to transfer into Thai bank, you can talk to the bank sale. Mostly they will provide you the best service as they can. Money are always welcome, my friend. whatever the government, or any bank. ????

 

[Jack Walker]

17 minutes ago, Jack Walker said:

 

And actually if you are going to have big amount US dollar, and you want to transfer into Thai bank, you can talk to the bank sale. Mostly they will provide you the best service as they can. Money are always welcome, my friend. whatever the government, or any bank. ????

 

 

At the same time, if you happen to have a need to buy some personal wealth management products, she could probably invite you to the VIP room to discuss. and that's the reason bank sales love you.

 

If the bank sale wants to help, then you could probobly get the best method their bank can provide mostly. And during this time you should focus on the key problems you really concern, that is, the total cost of the transfering, not the others. 

 

good luck my friend.

 

[ubonjoe]

27 minutes ago, Jack Walker said:

Which bank do you have? and do you have the Thailand account, or US dollar account?

The link for Kasikorn appears to be only for transfers from here.

Bangkok bank has this on it.

"If you have a U.S. bank account, you can conveniently transfer funds to a recipient's bank account at Bangkok Bank in Thailand via the internet by completing the steps described below for an international ACH transaction (IAT). International ACH payments are processed in accordance with operating rules and formats developed by the Electronic Payments Association (NACHA).

The IAT is a special code (a Standard Entry Class or “SEC” Code) for ACH payments that enables financial institutions such as Bangkok Bank to identify and monitor international ACH payments and to perform screening to ensure compliance with Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC, U.S. Department of the Treasury) requirements.  The NACHA  rules require Bangkok Bank’s New York Branch which serves as intermediary, to ensure that payments that are transmitted to account of beneficiary in other country are appropriately classified as IATs and contain information as described below."