O/A visa and insurance experience today

[lamyai3]

I wonder to what extent the mandatory insurance pilot project is being harnessed by immigration as a useful idiot in order to take the shine off the excellent Non O-A. With the dismantling of so many of the easy visa options in the past few years, the O-A was starting to stick out like a sore thumb in comparison with the alternatives, I can imagine immigration's been trying to think of ways to nobble it for some time.

 

If on the other hand it really is all about the insurance, the Non O-A plays the role of useful idiot in the Ministry of Health's nefarious scheme. One thing that's certain, there's no shortage of idiots involved. 

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

Good point, lamyai3. Maybe the generous O-A program has outlived its useful life (drawing tens of thousands of monied expats to fatten the Thai treasury and cure herds of sick buffalos) and they are slowly devaluing it.

 

Or maybe the simplest explanation: I can imagine, without straining myself too much, that there's "something in it" for Thai immigration off the top of the insurance industry's income stream. 

[mike787]

It is absolute hell now with this new requirement.  Time to reconsider if all this sacrifice is worth it.  There are other easier options with other countries.  Even in the USA, Canada insurance is a option not mandatory as part of your visa.

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

44 minutes ago, mike787 said:

It is absolute hell now with this new requirement.  Time to reconsider if all this sacrifice is worth it.  There are other easier options with other countries.  Even in the USA, Canada insurance is a option not mandatory as part of your visa.

 

Sure is. I know one thing: It's very likely I will leave Thailand if the renewal of my retirement extension next summer will not be granted without an expensive, thread-bare insurance policy. It just so happens my Bangkok apartment lease and extension expire at almost the same time. 

 

Edited November 23, 2019 by Kaoboi Bebobp

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, mike787 said:

t is absolute hell now with this new requirement.  Time to reconsider if all this sacrifice is worth it.  There are other easier options with other countries.  Even in the USA, Canada insurance is a option not mandatory as part of your visa.

The Current US Administraton has attempted to make Health Insurane a requirement for a United States  Immigrant Visa (commonly called Green Card.)  A US Court has stopped the implementation of this change in law as it could adversly stop family reunion and  posibly discriminatory.

 

Interestingly enough- as part of the US policy change- anyone currently in the US holding an Immigrant Visa and without insurance is exmpt- I even the Trump Administration realizes the concept of not applying a change in policy retroactively .  

 

Thailand needs to take notice and I hope the US Embassy reminds the Thai officials that applying policy changes ro rhose who entered a country under a different set of rules is not only wrong, unfair and illegal but smacks of discrimination.

Edited November 23, 2019 by Thaidream

[DrJack54]

9 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

The Current US Administraton has attempted to make Health Insurane a requirement for a United States  Immigrant Visa (commonly called Green Card.)  A US Court has stopped the implementation of this change in law as it could adversly stop family reunion and  posibly discriminatory.

 

Interestingly enough- as part of the US policy change- anyone currently in the US holding an Immigrant Visa and without insurance is exmpt- I even the Trump Administration realizes the concept of not applying a change in policy retroactively .  

 

Thailand needs to take notice and I hope the US Embassy reminds the Thai officials that applying policy changes ro rhose who entered a country under a different set of rules is not only wrong, unfair and illegal but smacks of discrimination.

How many folk, who had an O-A, (perhaps many years back) have had their application for 12 month permission of stay rejected in the last several days. Surely there would be many applications. 

[Thaidream]

3 hours ago, moontang said:

But social security is paid for by payroll deductions..and you seem to be underestimating the costs of caring for the elderly, even in Thailand.  Medicare expenses run about 15000 USD per person, per year in the US..even cutting that by 75%, you are talking about a large amount of money.

I don't think so- The US healthcare system- the most expensive in the World- is about 5 x more costly than Thailand.  

 

I would venture a guess that 1000 Baht per month or 12,000 Baht per year is enough to get coverage  for people 50 to 100 years old.  The coverage  proposed would provide access to Thai Gocernment Hospitals  or private hospitals that accept Social Security,

 

80,000 Longstayers x  12,000 baht ere year is about $320 million just in the pool for this age group.  If they really wanted to solve the complete issue and applied  500 Baht to an air ticket for medical purposes for the tourists- the pool would be hugeapprox $480 million extra 

 

[saengd]

3 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

How many folk, who had an O-A, (perhaps many years back) have had their application for 12 month permission of stay rejected in the last several days. Surely there would be many applications. 

You keep repeating the same mantra, "where are the people who have had their O-A extensions denied". What does it matter where they are, have you had your application denied, is your extension due soon, if so go ask your local Immi. office and see what they say. You already know what the position is in Chiang Mai, why keep looking for yet more supporting evidence!

[DrJack54]

5 minutes ago, saengd said:

You keep repeating the same mantra, "where are the people who have had their O-A extensions denied". What does it matter where they are, have you had your application denied, is your extension due soon, if so go ask your local Immi. office and see what they say. You already know what the position is in Chiang Mai, why keep looking for yet more supporting evidence!

Your missing the point (perhaps on purpose), months back when the tm30 nonsense started, especially with CW joining in there were soooo many reports daily of being fined etc for no tm30. 

You refer to CM. OK, how many people have applied at CM in last 21+ days and been refused annual extension because they originally entered with an O-A perhaps years back.

As tommy cruise stated " show me the money ".

There should be heaps if what you bang on about is fact.

[saengd]

5 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Your missing the point (perhaps on purpose), months back when the tm30 nonsense started, especially with CW joining in there were soooo many reports daily of being fined etc for no tm30. 

You refer to CM. OK, how many people have applied at CM in last 21+ days and been refused annual extension because they originally entered with an O-A perhaps years back.

As tommy cruise stated " show me the money ".

There should be heaps if what you bang on about is fact.

Why should there be heaps, because you think there should be! Somebody who has been here for years on an O-A extension goes to get it extended yet again and is denied because they don't have health insurance and you think they should be on here posting about their woes - not planning a work around, not trying to buy insurance, not developing their plan B and moving overseas, on here whinging and complaining about what happened to them....really!

 

Give it a rest for goodness sake, it's what it is, stop trying to make it out to be something it isn't.

[DrJack54]

Just now, saengd said:

Why should there be heaps, because you think there should be! Somebody who has been here for years on an O-A extension goes to get it extended yet again and is denied because they don't have health insurance and you think they should be on here posting about their woes - not planning a work around, not trying to buy insurance, not developing their plan B and moving overseas, on here whinging and complaining about what happened to them....really!

 

Give it a rest for goodness sake, it's what it is, stop trying to make it out to be something it isn't.

Well logic would suggest a few would detail their rejection. CM is not a village. There must be many that have applied for extensions in last few weeks. One would imagine some would ask Thaivisa for advice after rejection due to no insurance. 

Ain't seen em

[transam]

I was contacted by a friend today, he has an O-A extension, went to Ubon immigration and was refused extension because he now needs insurance. I told him he doesn't as his extensions have been done over many years.

Now I do not know if I am getting the whole story, but he is in turmoil.......????........????

[lkv]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

I told him he doesn't as his extensions have been done over many years

And what was it exactly, out of the Police Order, that gave you that perception?

[MeePeeMai]

18 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Well logic would suggest a few would detail their rejection. CM is not a village. There must be many that have applied for extensions in last few weeks. One would imagine some would ask Thaivisa for advice after rejection due to no insurance. 

Ain't seen em

Chiang Mai, Jomtien, Nonthanburi, Hua Hin to name a few.  Maybe you missed the threads and posts in the threads.

 

 

See post # 37 here where Sheryl confirms that insurance is required for all new extensions (on a prior O-A entry) in several areas.

 

 

Edited November 23, 2019 by MeePeeMai

[saengd]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

I was contacted by a friend today, he has an O-A extension, went to Ubon immigration and was refused extension because he now needs insurance. I told him he doesn't as his extensions have been done over many years.

Now I do not know if I am getting the whole story, but he is in turmoil.......????........????

The previous poster wants to know why your friend wasn't on here posting what happened to him straight away, can you explain why?

[DrJack54]

So in 22+ days we have statement from Sheryl. By the way she did not apply for an extension.

Also a friend of someone where facts are not clear.

Also there were imm offices that stuffed things up in first week. One chap only given 30 day visa exempt stay. That was erased and he was given the 12 month permission of stay. 

Anyway outta here. Too much rubbish. I like first hand posts. 

So that's it? One comment (opinion) from member and one friend of a member.

Geezus. What about the other many offices. What of the zillion folk attend CW.

WHERE are reports first hand. Not difficult

[moontang]

48 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I don't think so- The US healthcare system- the most expensive in the World- is about 5 x more costly than Thailand.  

 

I would venture a guess that 1000 Baht per month or 12,000 Baht per year is enough to get coverage  for people 50 to 100 years old.  The coverage  proposed would provide access to Thai Gocernment Hospitals  or private hospitals that accept Social Security,

 

80,000 Longstayers x  12,000 baht ere year is about $320 million just in the pool for this age group.  If they really wanted to solve the complete issue and applied  500 Baht to an air ticket for medical purposes for the tourists- the pool would be hugeapprox $480 million extra 

 

I said four times more..75% less.  Even if it is five..care for seniors costs a lot more than 33 THB per day..would barely cover the cost of the new shingles vaccine.  Seniors not on any prescriptions is a rare exception.  I know of a recent 80 year old visitor who was diagnosed with pneumonia, and hospitalized for two days in CR...25000.  And the people requiring long term care?  Did you learn math from Crazy Bernie or Pocahantis?

[MeePeeMai]

10 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

WHERE are reports first hand. Not difficult

I asked my local office while I was there on my last 90 day report (this is 1st hand).  They told me that a Thai insurance policy WILL be required to qualify for my next 12 month extension (I'm here on a Non O-A).  Chiang Khan Office.

[Mango Bob]

25 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

So in 22+ days we have statement from Sheryl. By the way she did not apply for an extension.

Also a friend of someone where facts are not clear.

Also there were imm offices that stuffed things up in first week. One chap only given 30 day visa exempt stay. That was erased and he was given the 12 month permission of stay. 

Anyway outta here. Too much rubbish. I like first hand posts. 

So that's it? One comment (opinion) from member and one friend of a member.

Geezus. What about the other many offices. What of the zillion folk attend CW.

WHERE are reports first hand. Not difficult

First hand post.  I came here 15 years ago on an O/A visa issued in NYC.  This past Monday I was told when my extension is over I will need to have insurance to get another extension. Ratchaburi Immigrations.

Edited November 23, 2019 by Mango Bob

[saengd]

Another first hand report (but you've already been told this by me previously), same as Mango Bob except I came here in 2004 on an O-A visa, I will need medical insurance when I extend in May next year. Chiang Mai

[bttao]

I think I am going to pass... and not waste my time on Thailand.

From what I gathered lately, Vietnam and Cambodia are gaining momentum in replacing Thailand as a better place and less hassle for retirement.

It seems there is an ever greater exodus from Thailand by long term expats in that country, due to the latest changes in immigration... and it would be too late to reverse that trend later...

I wonder how much foreign currency Thailand gains/receives from those expat retirees every year?

Edited November 23, 2019 by bttao

[Pib]

Two Chaeng Wattanna Immigration Officers told me face-to-face approx one month ago in a 15 minutes conversation that for my next retirement extension of stay in late 2020 (would be my 12th) that I will require insurance as all my extensions began with my 2008 OA Visa.

[MeePeeMai]

1 minute ago, Pib said:

Two Chaeng Wattanna Immigration Officers told me face-to-face approx one month ago in a 15 minutes conversation that for my next retirement extension of stay in late 2020 (would be my 12th) that I will require insurance as all my extensions began with my 2008 OA Visa.

Another 1st hand report.

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

Summary of first and second-hand reports rolling in now that at the next O-A based extension, you will require health insurance:

 

First hand:

 

sirwilly in Chiang Mai

Maxx58 at Nonthaburi

MeePeemai at Chiang Khan

MangoBob at Ratchaburi (he doesn't mention the place but his avatar shows location as Ratchaburi)

saengd at Chiang Mai (reconfirms his earlier report)

Pib at Bangkok Chang Wattana - CW officers confirm need for insurance on next extension renewal 

 

Second-hand from Transam:

 

Friend in Ubon. TA says friend refused extension because of no insurance. 

 

-----

 

Alas, the writing is on the wall. 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

Another 1st hand report.

No sure that can be considered a 1st hand report of somebody actually being denied a extension at Chaeng Wattana and that was over a month ago.

I have seen no reports of a denial yet.

[DrJack54]

38 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

First hand post.  I came here 15 years ago on an O/A visa issued in NYC.  This past Monday I was told when my extension is over I will need to have insurance to get another extension. Ratchaburi Immigrations.

Is my question that complicated. I have stated several times, I don't want "what your imm office wants for your next extension". 

I would like to see post...

" today I went to imm and my 12 month extension application was rejected because I did not have insurance. Previously entered on an O-A many years ago"

22 days since new rule. Must have been so many previous O-A folk applying for extensions.

[moontang]

November is a slow time of year for extensions, that may affect the low number of reports.  December is much busier.

Edited November 23, 2019 by moontang

[DrJack54]

3 minutes ago, moontang said:

November is a slow time of year for extensions, that may affect the low number of reports.  December is much busier.

Just curious... why is November slow time for extensions and December "much busier"

[scubascuba3]

People seem to be ignoring the many posts, it's clear insurance is being requested now for OA extensions, ignore it at your peril.

 

Hopefully the OA guys realise they need to get an O

[MeePeeMai]

3 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Hopefully the OA guys realise they need to get an O

 

I agree but I would word that like this:

 

Hopefully the Non-O (based on over 50 / retirement) will not be next on the list for mandatory Thai insurance (or be scrapped all together).