Thai Tourism: "Half of foreigners" don't pay their hospital bills; director points finger at three nationalities

[KKr]

1 hour ago, joebrown said:

Hospitals have ways of 'balancing' the coffers. Keeping brain dead expats alive on 'expensive' life support systems is one of them. This is done on the basis of Thai Buddhist ethic, not on the reality of the expat's non- Buddhist religion. 

So, I do not know where you heard about Thai Buddhist ethics, and what Hospital is profiteering like that, 

but the following are facts;
and should you doubt it I you can consult with your local Government Hospital:

whereas Euthanasia is not permitted, in case of no hope of improvement and no hope of in future leading a life that has some meaning at all, Medical Doctors can decide to stop treatment (p.e. switch off breathing equipment) and for example continue just painkillers and palliative care.
Family is of course deeply involved in the decision making, and can initiate discussion to take such decision.

In any case, it helps if the person that is sick has made an "Advance Directive" (i.e. Living Will) stipulating her or his wishes, so there can not be any discussion about what she or he would have wanted to happen in case of illness or accident, and not being able to express his or her wishes.
(your local Notarial services Lawyer can advice, drafts are on the internet.)

 

[KKr]

9 hours ago, scunner said:

But you aren't thinking like the people in charge

and that is exactly why, as an expat for 30 years, I have made a true and lasting contribution to the countries where I have worked.
 

[metisdead]

Some inflammatory posts, profane posts and troll posts have been removed. 

[joebrown]

4 hours ago, KKr said:

So, I do not know where you heard about Thai Buddhist ethics, and what Hospital is profiteering like that, 

but the following are facts;
and should you doubt it I you can consult with your local Government Hospital:

whereas Euthanasia is not permitted, in case of no hope of improvement and no hope of in future leading a life that has some meaning at all, Medical Doctors can decide to stop treatment (p.e. switch off breathing equipment) and for example continue just painkillers and palliative care.
Family is of course deeply involved in the decision making, and can initiate discussion to take such decision.

In any case, it helps if the person that is sick has made an "Advance Directive" (i.e. Living Will) stipulating her or his wishes, so there can not be any discussion about what she or he would have wanted to happen in case of illness or accident, and not being able to express his or her wishes.
(your local Notarial services Lawyer can advice, drafts are on the internet.)

 

"Medical Doctors can decide to stop treatment (p.e. switch off breathing equipment) and for example continue just painkillers and palliative care."

A late friend (83yrs old) of mine suffered a serious heart attack shortly after being advised it was too late to perform any remedial heart surgery.

He was totally dependent on life support after 1 week. His Thai wife knew he would never recover, having been told this by a doctor, but the "preserve life' Buddhist card was dealt to his wife by the doctor. Between the doctor, the cash register and Lord Buddha they kept him alive for another 3 weeks at great personal cost to his widow.

[Airbagwill]

5 hours ago, KKr said:

So, I do not know where you heard about Thai Buddhist ethics, and what Hospital is profiteering like that, 

but the following are facts;
and should you doubt it I you can consult with your local Government Hospital:

whereas Euthanasia is not permitted, in case of no hope of improvement and no hope of in future leading a life that has some meaning at all, Medical Doctors can decide to stop treatment (p.e. switch off breathing equipment) and for example continue just painkillers and palliative care.
Family is of course deeply involved in the decision making, and can initiate discussion to take such decision.

In any case, it helps if the person that is sick has made an "Advance Directive" (i.e. Living Will) stipulating her or his wishes, so there can not be any discussion about what she or he would have wanted to happen in case of illness or accident, and not being able to express his or her wishes.
(your local Notarial services Lawyer can advice, drafts are on the internet.)

 

ethics in all Thai hospitals are highly questionable and would often shock a westerner if they realised what was going on.

the hierarchical nature of the staff setup makes it almost impossible to question a doctor's decision regardless of who bizarre or cruel and heartless it may seem .

Suffering is a major part of buddhist belief - if that ever enters into it and medication is often regarded as postponing the inevitable........ whoever makes up the criteria is never called upon to justify their decision s many health workers in tHailand are  in jobs way beyond their training, this should be of great concern to patients.

[Billy Bloggs]

Still an easy fix, one of two hold passport till bill paid or money up front, dont do either no service

 

I hate bludgers

 

[RJRS1301]

12 minutes ago, Billy Bloggs said:

Still an easy fix, one of two hold passport till bill paid or money up front, dont do either no service

 

I hate bludgers

 

A third party cannot legally hold a persons passport, The passport is the property of the issuing nation or authority, held by the individual in whose name it is issued, and cannot be held in lieu of debt 

[300sd]

Articles like this really bother me. My GF believes it!

[fakser]

The answer is so simple: Upon admission, the hospital asks for the patients passport. No pay? No passport.

[fakser]

2 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

A third party cannot legally hold a persons passport, The passport is the property of the issuing nation or authority, held by the individual in whose name it is issued, and cannot be held in lieu of debt 

If the renting agent of motorbike or boat, can do it, so can the hospital.

Another way is to take a credit card deposit like they do in hotels all over the world.

I can not understand the impotency of the hospital, causing big nuisance to all the honest millions of tourists in Thailand. 

[happy chappie]

I've just got out of intensive care tonight after suffering a pulmonary edema and my lungs filling up with water.the doctor asked for 35,000 deposit with my passport and if he was to repair the stent then it was another 110,000 or he wouldn't perform the operation.in other words leave me to drown on my own water filling up my lungs or heart failure.

before anyone goes on about insurance I can't get it due to pre existing stents x3 which obviously one wasn't doing its job.

[roo860]

21 minutes ago, happy chappie said:

I've just got out of intensive care tonight after suffering a pulmonary edema and my lungs filling up with water.the doctor asked for 35,000 deposit with my passport and if he was to repair the stent then it was another 110,000 or he wouldn't perform the operation.in other words leave me to drown on my own water filling up my lungs or heart failure.

before anyone goes on about insurance I can't get it due to pre existing stents x3 which obviously one wasn't doing its job.

Hope you get sorted.

????

[happy chappie]

47 minutes ago, roo860 said:

Hope you get sorted.

????

Thanks,yes I'm on the mend and can't knock the staff or treatment as it was the main public hospital but the thought of losing my life because I didn't have £3,500 in my back pocket leaves me worried about my future here.i said can't you patch me up to get home and they said....you won't make it.

[Odysseus123]

35 minutes ago, happy chappie said:

Thanks,yes I'm on the mend and can't knock the staff or treatment as it was the main public hospital but the thought of losing my life because I didn't have £3,500 in my back pocket leaves me worried about my future here.i said can't you patch me up to get home and they said....you won't make it.

If it is at all possible never leave it too late to get home-that is if you come from a country with a decent medical system.

Another thing to consider is that,once home and treated,the cost of health insurance and exclusions may prevent you from returning to Thailand.

 

A Swedish friend of mine has just succeeding in extracting her father from an ongoing health care mess and got him home but it was a near run thing.

 

Best wishes for your recovery.

[JAFO]

Every time this topic hits the the board its the same responses and debate. IMHO no matter how they spin this, its all nonsense. It doesn't matter the nationalities, Thai hospitals absolutely mandate that a deposit is paid for any services for anybody without a Thai ID, whether cash or credit card. When the patient leaves they pay in full. I work here and have had a few visiting colleagues with serious medical issues that required going to the hospital. They checked in and first was payment. Both used their CC.  When they left they put it all on the card and got the receipt and would receive reimbursement from the med ins company through our company.

 

The only issue on non payment they may experience is if someone gets hurt so bad and is in ICU and then passes. But how often does that happen? 

 

The debate continues.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, JAFO said:

Every time this topic hits the the board its the same responses and debate. IMHO no matter how they spin this, its all nonsense. It doesn't matter the nationalities, Thai hospitals absolutely mandate that a deposit is paid for any services for anybody without a Thai ID, whether cash or credit card. When the patient leaves they pay in full. I work here and have had a few visiting colleagues with serious medical issues that required going to the hospital. They checked in and first was payment. Both used their CC.  When they left they put it all on the card and got the receipt and would receive reimbursement from the med ins company through our company.

 

The only issue on non payment they may experience is if someone gets hurt so bad and is in ICU and then passes. But how often does that happen? 

 

The debate continues.

I've never had to pay a deposit for treatment in a Thai Hospital (Bumrungrad or Samitivej)... 

 

I've been admitted for various sports injuries, nothing too major, but involved X-rays, MRI's and a CT-Scan, over night stays etc... No major bills (just 30,000 baht or there about's) - Insurance paid directly, I wasn't asked about that until it was time to pay the bill. 

Recently for some out patient treatment I was asked if I had Insurance, I just said yes and that was the end of that. 

I paid directly for 3 visits in one lump sum after the 3rd visit and claimed back from my insurance. 

 

Perhaps each hospital handles things a little differently - People experiences seem to vary a lot. 

[RJRS1301]

5 hours ago, fakser said:

If the renting agent of motorbike or boat, can do it, so can the hospital.

Another way is to take a credit card deposit like they do in hotels all over the world.

I can not understand the impotency of the hospital, causing big nuisance to all the honest millions of tourists in Thailand. 

Just because a renting agent does it, that does not make it legal. People are too silly sometimes when dealing with their identification documents. 

[Humpy]

Handcuff them to the bed until they pay ...not forgetting to charge them for the extra time taken to pay  !!

[tsk3009]

I love how the French get tossed in with the Chinese and Russian crowd. Looks like Thailand will have to tap the money it generates from its sundry tourist rip-off strategies to cover the unpaid expenses.

[Trolleen]

As said before. But my note was deleted by webbside owner. The compulsory insurance for marriage visa O and retirement visa O is already under consideration. Notebooks will be inforce in 2021.

I lived here since 2009. And I know what is going on.

[Stargeezr]

Wow is Thailand going to make the Chinese, Russian, and French people

stay out of Thailand if they do not get medical insurance, before visiting???

  Hope so.  I do now get insurance as the hospitals are not very cheap to stay at.
 

[kellio]

Having recently visited a hospital outside Pattaya to get a rough quote on having a stent inserted in my leg, I was told it would cost roughly around 250,000 Baht.
While there, my wife got talking to one of nurses who told her of a Japanese gentleman who was quoted roughly the same figure for a similar operation.
He agreed and had the procedure carried out.
However, after the operation, he was told there were unforeseen complications so the figure was now 4 times the original quote.
Since he didn't have the money in Thailand, he had to send to Japan for it.
The hospital would not release him and kept him under security guard for the time it took him to organize and get the money sent to Thailand which is this case was 5 days during which time he was charged an additional 4000 baht per night for the room.   

[Bkkthebest]

Which 3 nationalities? 

[Trolleen]

1 hour ago, kellio said:

Having recently visited a hospital outside Pattaya to get a rough quote on having a stent inserted in my leg, I was told it would cost roughly around 250,000 Baht.
While there, my wife got talking to one of nurses who told her of a Japanese gentleman who was quoted roughly the same figure for a similar operation.
He agreed and had the procedure carried out.
However, after the operation, he was told there were unforeseen complications so the figure was now 4 times the original quote.
Since he didn't have the money in Thailand, he had to send to Japan for it.
The hospital would not release him and kept him under security guard for the time it took him to organize and get the money sent to Thailand which is this case was 5 days during which time he was charged an additional 4000 baht per night for the room.   

Many people gets tromb I leg . I is does not matter how old you are. Usually procedure to give a medication which make a blood more loose. Medication cost around 1000 baht.. never  do it sent in leg. Nowhere in Europe.

[Trolleen]

Not knowledge about basic thing clear shows that many European comes from getto.

[FarangULong]

On 11/29/2019 at 8:48 AM, FarangULong said:

Anyone with a half decent credit card already has travel insurance. I do with both of mine (even though the insurance on my main card is more than enough, as it includes everything incl. being flown home in a medical plane, if needed). Problem solved. And if someone doesn't even qualify for a credit card, maybe they shouldn't be travelling and get their life in order instead.

 

On a side note, when I read "3 nationalities", I immediately thought: "Gee, let's see. I'll go with Chinese and probably Russian." French does, admittedly, surprise me though.

I'm not sure why I am getting ~ 50% negative reactions for this? It's not my fault, that apparently some people aren't aware that they have travel insurance already. Depending on how well they chose their bank and/or card, that is.

And not my fault either, that some people are apparently too cheap to pay their hospital bills after having too much to drink and getting their ass whooped by the local wannabe Yodsenklai/Buakaw cab&tuk tuk drivers, or <deleted> like that, and that therefore the government is considering to demand mandatory insurance...

 

Yes, some travel insurance does not pay for certain places, and it pays off to check with them first. However that applies to ANY travel insurance, not just to what you get with your credit card.

I also made sure to ask my "superior" (I subcontract, so he is the guy running my area, but not actually my boss) whether the insurance was enough or not, and him - being a former insurance broker - told me it was more than enough. I then cross referenced it with the conditions on my 2ndary card, which were pretty much the same, and where initially I wasn't even aware that it too had travel insurance on it. But on my main card I picked platinum (which costs only a little bit more per quarter, came to like 1 or 2 Euros more per month, for a double/multifold of coverage amounts) for that specific reason: Better coverage, more coverage, more per day coverage&payouts etc.

 

If anything, this post was helpful. But I guess some people are mad, because I'm not too friendly and suck-up-ish enough, when pointing out the obvious....

 

Or is it due to me saying, that the "finger pointing" at both the Chinese and Russians doesn't surprise me one bit? Or that certain people, who don't qualify for the lowest form of credit, shouldn't be traveling?  If so: I pity you. Must be hard, to swallow everything that comes to mind and could be construed as non-PC or worse, and having to walk like on egg shells all the time.

[worrab]

1 hour ago, Trolleen said:

As said before. But my note was deleted by webbside owner. The compulsory insurance for marriage visa O and retirement visa O is already under consideration. Notebooks will be inforce in 2021.

I lived here since 2009. And I know what is going on.

And your evidence is????

[Odysseus123]

Well..I think that the Thai medico was doing a wee bit of "divide et Impera" knowing full well that naming certain "foreign" nationalities would bring out the racists and xenophobes (native and farang) in support.

 

One of the oldest tricks in the book.

Edited December 2, 2019 by Odysseus123

[Trolleen]

No worry for that. Many people already do not care of insurance. Because there are niche better places to move and live. Do not worry. Thailand in 5 years time will change a policy but will be to late. 

By the way symptoms of tromb in leg.

1.pain

2. Swollen.

3. More red changes in colours. 

No need for operation. Unless in seldom cases in sorts high in near the cook.

[Trolleen]

6 minutes ago, worrab said:

And your evidence is????

My wife edvice stay low and calm. Unless my family and you go to prison. No more