Scotland must be given new independence vote - Sturgeon

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, Forethat said:

I guess we have to agree to disagree on that one and wish Scotland good luck. After all, I'm rather confident none of us wish to see any nation harmed.

Think about it mate.

 

How could Scotland on its own be responsible for 60% of the UK's deficit?

[Forethat]

31 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Think about it mate.

 

How could Scotland on its own be responsible for 60% of the UK's deficit?

As I said, I don't think this the right forum for a debate regarding budget deficits, but to answer your question; the spending on each person in Scotland is roughly £1,600 higher than in England. In addition, the tax receipts per capita is in the region of £300 higher in England. I don't have the exact numbers but, in simple terms, that answers your question.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Forethat

[melvinmelvin]

17 minutes ago, Denim said:

 

If I close my eyes I can visualize it, a man in a kilt wearing a bowler hat.

 

pin striped kilt

[Brigand]

35 minutes ago, stevenl said:

As you say, opinions on TV are woefully off often.

As usual, attack the poster not the post. Maybe offer an opinion on content instead and debate and maybe gain respect... if you dare.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Brigand

[GinBoy2]

1 hour ago, jvs said:

Much later,years even.

Again, as an American I have no skin in this game, but unless I'm misunderstanding what I've read, the UK legally leaves on Jan 31st 2020 and enters a transition period. 

 

But you have left the EU and the transition is there simply to agree, or not, on  a new trading relationship, but there is no going back after January and like it or not England Scotland and Wales are all out. Now what happens if your version of 'Art of the Deal' PM doesn't reach any agreement with the EU after the transition period, well, fur may well fly!

 

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by GinBoy2

[Denim]

Seriously, if the Scotts genuinely want independence , the next referendum should be held in England and only residents of England should be allowed to vote.

 

The question should be posed thus :

 

' Should Scotland be allowed to remain in the Union. Yes or No ?

 

This method would absolutely guarantee the Scotts the independence they desire.

 

And without any malice I would say sincere good luck to you and your new currency and I hope your work permit applications to go south go smoothly 

[Thian]

6 hours ago, colinneil said:

i am half Scottish, half English.

So you wear a mini-kilt? Well in the Thai heat that must be pretty comfy.

[JonnyF]

At this point I'm inclined to let them go. 

 

Can you imagine if an "English Nationalist Party" got as many votes as the SNP got today. We would be branded a nation of racist little Englanders.

 

If they think the EU will treat them better than the UK then I think they should put their money where their mouth it and just do it.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by JonnyF

[Forethat]

2 minutes ago, Denim said:

Seriously, if the Scotts genuinely want independence , the next referendum should be held in England and only residents of England should be allowed to vote.

 

The question should be posed thus :

 

' Should Scotland be allowed to remain in the Union. Yes or No ?

 

This method would absolutely guarantee the Scotts the independence they desire.

 

And without any malice I would say sincere good luck to you and your new currency and I hope your work permit applications to go south go smoothly 

One thing that struck my mind was the Scottish share of the UK national debt. After all, considering the strong opinions (even on TVF) regarding UKs need to repay its debt to the EU if they decided to leave THAT union, isn't it fair to demand that Scotland repay its share of the UK debt if they decide to leave the UK...?

[yogi100]

5 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

So because one of Colin's parents is Scottish, he can say with certainty that Nicola Sturgeon "dont give a rats a++e about Scotland or Scottish people. She just wants to be boss, and dragging Scotland down is of no concern to her"? I would love to hear how you came to that conclusion. 

Colin said,

Now before i get attacked for my comment, i am half Scottish, half English.

You said,

"I would love to hear how you came to that conclusion."

I said

"Possibly because one of his parents is English and the other one is Scottish"

 

 

 

[evadgib]

42 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

Again, as an American I have no skin in this game, but unless I'm misunderstanding what I've read, the UK legally leaves on Jan 31st 2020 and enters a transition period. 

 

But you have left the EU and the transition is there simply to agree, or not, on  a new trading relationship, but there is no going back after January and like it or not England Scotland and Wales are all out. Now what happens if your version of 'Art of the Deal' PM doesn't reach any agreement with the EU after the transition period, well, fur may well fly!

 

 

Boris's Dad weighed in on UK TV a couple of hours ago claiming that a deal will be done-and-dusted very quickly. Whether he's right or otherwise is anyone's guess but the general confidence around the issue of late is very encouraging even for the skeptics who are (still!) looking for this to fail.

Edited December 13, 2019 by evadgib

[evadgib]

14 minutes ago, Forethat said:

One thing that struck my mind was the Scottish share of the UK national debt. After all, considering the strong opinions (even on TVF) regarding UKs need to repay its debt to the EU if they decided to leave THAT union, isn't it fair to demand that Scotland repay its share of the UK debt if they decide to leave the UK...?

Bloody right it is (& they ain't running off with the family silver either!)

HTH

[david555]

24 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Bloody right it is (& they ain't running off with the family silver either!)

HTH

So now in that case a bill to pay is O.K. …..but when U.K. leaves E.U. and is hold accountable for signed projects and contracts for future (breach of commitments & contracts ) it is not O.K. ?

 

Oh I see the difference ,...receiving is o.k. , paying not so o.k. …..

Speaking of double standards … waw  that is a nice one 

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, Brigand said:

As usual, attack the poster not the post. Maybe offer an opinion on content instead and debate and maybe gain respect... if you dare.

As usual, comprehensive reading is not your thing. There is no attack on the poster in my post, only a disagreement with the post made.

[elliss]

8 hours ago, robblok said:

If scotland leaves the UK will be weaker still. Will be a nice show to see the UK crumble.

 

 

 If Scotland , leaves the UK ,  and join the EU .

   Great for UK , we can trade import and export to Europe via Scotland . 

    Doing away with the Irish backstop shte .

    They have been holding the UK to ransom , for too long ..

 

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by elliss

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, yogi100 said:

Colin said,

Now before i get attacked for my comment, i am half Scottish, half English.

You said,

"I would love to hear how you came to that conclusion."

I said

"Possibly because one of his parents is English and the other one is Scottish"

 

 

 

Ah, flippancy - my apologies for taking you seriously.

[RuamRudy]

2 hours ago, Forethat said:

As I said, I don't think this the right forum for a debate regarding budget deficits, but to answer your question; the spending on each person in Scotland is roughly £1,600 higher than in England. In addition, the tax receipts per capita is in the region of £300 higher in England. I don't have the exact numbers but, in simple terms, that answers your question.

If all that was true, why is the UK government so against Scotland leaving the Union? Surely, in these constrained times it would be sensible to jettison such a net drain on the exchequer, especially such an ungrateful one?

[Forethat]

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

If all that was true, why is the UK government so against Scotland leaving the Union? Surely, in these constrained times it would be sensible to jettison such a net drain on the exchequer, especially such an ungrateful one?

If you ask for my personal opinion, I would say the reasons are similar to the EU reasons for not wanting UK to leave their union. There are costs on both sides. Especially in the short term. And then there are cultural, historical and social aspects that are difficult to value. My own plan is to spend my retirement summers in Aberdeenshire. It's not that I want to see them go, but if someone asks me whether Scotland has a budget deficit, I can't but tell you the way it is - they do. About 7% (and that's INCLUDING the oil revenue).

 

But if you're really interested in what the Government thinks I suggest you write them and ask.

[Libai]

I would like the UK to stay as one but if the Scots want to leave, then its goodbyeeeeeee

[dabhand]

6 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Once in a generation? Get with the corrupted message - you are meant to call it 'once in a lifetime'. That is the line that is most frequently trumpeted. However if you check the Edinburgh agreement you will find no such statement. It is a throwaway line used by desperate people in another country who are terrified of losing the cash cow they have successfully bled dry for decades.

I do believe that the 'once in a generation' comment forms part of the Scottish Government produced White Paper published in November 2013, prior to the IndyRef1 of 2014. This was included in the Preface penned by Alex Salmond in his position as Scotland First Minister. It is on page 10 of the WP. Easily missed, I suppose...

 

Seemingly not in the Edinburgh Agreement, but appears official, nonetheless, rather than 'a throwaway line used by desperate people'. 

 

https://www2.gov.scot/resource/0043/00439021.pdf

[yogi100]

13 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

If all that was true, why is the UK government so against Scotland leaving the Union? Surely, in these constrained times it would be sensible to jettison such a net drain on the exchequer, especially such an ungrateful one?

Possibly its out of a sense of loyalty and gratitude. 

 

A very high proportion of Scottish servicemen gave their lives for Britain in both world wars. For example in one Scottish mining village eight of their sons went off to fight in the Great War. Only one came back.

[RuamRudy]

56 minutes ago, dabhand said:

I do believe that the 'once in a generation' comment forms part of the Scottish Government produced White Paper published in November 2013, prior to the IndyRef1 of 2014. This was included in the Preface penned by Alex Salmond in his position as Scotland First Minister. It is on page 10 of the WP. Easily missed, I suppose...

 

Seemingly not in the Edinburgh Agreement, but appears official, nonetheless, rather than 'a throwaway line used by desperate people'. 

 

https://www2.gov.scot/resource/0043/00439021.pdf

I hope that you are not a lawyer because that is absolutely a throw away comment and any suggestion that it represents some sort of legally binding clause is laughable.

 

However, as I am not as member of the SNP and an in no way constrained by a preface written by them, it is wholly irrelevant to me.

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, Forethat said:

If you ask for my personal opinion, I would say the reasons are similar to the EU reasons for not wanting UK to leave their union. There are costs on both sides. Especially in the short term. And then there are cultural, historical and social aspects that are difficult to value. My own plan is to spend my retirement summers in Aberdeenshire. It's not that I want to see them go, but if someone asks me whether Scotland has a budget deficit, I can't but tell you the way it is - they do. About 7% (and that's INCLUDING the oil revenue).

 

But if you're really interested in what the Government thinks I suggest you write them and ask.

Nostalgia? A government that is more than happy for ex-servicemen to sleep and die on the streets has a as soft spot for an ungrateful bunch who have not voted Tory since 1955? Ok, believe that if you like. Personally,I think there is something a bit more fundamental to their desperation to keep us in the Union.

[david555]

1 hour ago, elliss said:

 

 If Scotland , leaves the UK ,  and join the EU .

   Great for UK , we can trade import and export to Europe via Scotland . 

    Doing away with the Irish backstop shte .

    They have been holding the UK to ransom , for too long ..

 

 

So you don't mind to have a border there as no good Friday agreements in the game there …..?

[Laughing Gravy]

10 hours ago, Denim said:

Seriously, if the Scotts genuinely want independence , the next referendum should be held in England and only residents of England should be allowed to vote.

 

The question should be posed thus :

 

' Should Scotland be allowed to remain in the Union. Yes or No ?

 

This method would absolutely guarantee the Scotts the independence they desire.

 

And without any malice I would say sincere good luck to you and your new currency and I hope your work permit applications to go south go smoothly 

Please include Wales and Northern Ireland in that referendum.
 

[Stargeezr]

So the British islands seem as happy a family as Canada is. Way to go Scotland, with the low population, and oil fields, plus your agriculture, you should be able to make it. If the EU

wants to keep Greece, it can also welcome you to the Union. Good luck!

Geezer

[GinBoy2]

I've asked this question before, but nobody seemed to want to answer.

 

Who would be an independent Scotland's largest trading partner?

 

I don't know the answer, but I would speculate that it's the remainder of the UK. 

 

So the same argument I would have for the bizarre logic of the UK as a whole leaving their largest trading partner, the EU, why would any Scot in their corn fed mind leave their largest trading partner and basically become some very small country trading outside of the UK or EU on WTO terms?

Then again in the bizarre world in which we currently live any nutjob idea can gain traction on social media.

 

I personally am negotiating that South Dakota secede from the Union, while simultaneously negotiating a free trade agreement with Canada. We need to keep those damn Coloradans and North Dakotans out of our State.

 

...now where is my twitter feed to get this going?

[overherebc]

Would England want to keep the German Royal Family to themselves?

[ThaiBunny]

Just now, overherebc said:

Would England want to keep the German Royal Family to themselves?

They already share them with New Zealand, Canada, Australia ...

[overherebc]

29 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

They already share them with New Zealand, Canada, Australia ...

Do they put their hands in their pockets for them every year? I don't know.