Important Financial Considerations For Visa Holder

[george]

Important financial considerations for visa holders

Minimum income re-stated by Immigration Bureau

BANGKOK -- In accordance with the Immigration Bureau’s order No. 110/2546 subject to regulations and requirements of stay for foreigners which has been effective since July 10, 2003, and for the visa extension concerning business and Thai Sponsor or Permanent Resident sponsor, which will be effective from July 10, 2004.

The Immigration Bureau states the foreigner’s minimum income regulation which will be effective from July 10, 2004, as following:

1. Income necessary for Visa extension for business of foreigners

(Nationality) Japan, U.S.A., Canada: (Stipulated minimum monthly income) 60,000 baht. Europe, Australia: 50,000 baht. Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Great Britain, Singapore, and Malaysia: 45,000 baht. India, Middle East, China, Indonesia, Philippines: 35,000 baht. Myanmar, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia and Africa: 25,000 baht. Correspondents: 20,000 baht.

2. Visa extension concerning Thai or Permanent Resident Sponsor

For foreigners who sponsor a Thai or Permanent Resident, he/she must have not less than 400,000 baht in a savings account or not less than 40,000 baht monthly income.

For foreigners who obtain sponsorship from a Permanent Resident, such Permanent Resident must have not less than 400,000 baht in a savings account or not less than 40,000 baht monthly income.

--The Immigration Bureau, Bangkok

[dr_Pat_Pong]

A combination of income / savings is thus permitted. Phuket Immigration was, as usual, wrong.

[lopburi3]

It reads very much like one, or the other, to me. But it is still early in the game.

[Thetyim]

I think the best advice to give anyone who wishes to apply for a visa or visa extension would be to sit down and decide what visa requirements would best suit you and then go touring the Immigration Bureaux until you find an officer who agrees with you.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I think the best advice to give anyone who wishes to apply for a visa or visa extension would be to sit down and decide what visa requirements would best suit you and then go touring the Immigration Bureaux until you find an officer who agrees with you.

That'll work. But it will be a full time job to ever find two officer's agreeing with each other I think. Much more hope on a one on one basis between you and the officer.

[ProThaiExpat]

lopburi3: I am with you on the interpretation of the "or" in the regulation. However, having said that and knowing how loosely the translations of regulations are coming out of immigration, Dr. Pat may very well be right.

Again there is a lot of wiggle room for those who are polite, have a real need and who have long stay in Thailand.

[ericjt]

At the risk of asking a dumb question, the first part of these income rules seem to apply to foreigners seeking to do business in Thailand? I am applying for a retirement visa. What are the rules pertaining to people who do that?

I thought it was 800,000 baht OR 60,000 baht per month income, but then I saw another description of the rules which seemed to indicate that I needed to show an additional 800,000 baht in the bank (or 800,000 baht of income) each year. Can anyone clarify the retirement income rules for me?

Also, at the risk of one more dumb question, why would I, a foreigner, sponsor a Thai for a visa? From what I understand, a Thai would not need a visa to enter or stay in Thailand. So why would I be sponsoring them?

As you can probably tell, these rules don't make much sense to me right now, but I'm trying to learn.

Thanks for your help.

[peter416]

The good news from Bangkok is that the Brits only (?) have to earn 45,000 Baht - not like their European cousins 50,000 Baht

[lopburi3]

Also, at the risk of one more dumb question, why would I, a foreigner, sponsor a Thai for a visa?

Believe "sponsor" = support.

[billd766]

What has happened to the grandfathering option for those people who already have a visa, in my case a Thai Wife support visa?

I went down to Suan Plu last week after a change of passport to get my visa transferred.

No problem there but I asked an immigration officer ( a captain I think ) and she said next year it would be 400,000 or 40,000 baht income per month.

Can anybody clarify this?

[wjta]

I'm surprised that they have a "sliding scale" based on country of origin. That seems to indicate they are just trying to milk us, but not so hard we kick over the pail.

I guess they charge us Americans more because they think we have more money. Maybe they did some research on our retirement systems. The 60,000 baht per month is pretty close to the typical retirement benefit for Social Security, but that could just be a coincidence.

[BlackJack]

som tam lady says that in August there is high level talk of the retirement visa condition of having 1.5 million in the bank

sounds like a ploy to push people towards the priviledge card

[JayM]

What happens if you do not meet the stipulated income ? Are you kicked out of Thailand ? What about all the Thais working overseas in other countries. Should they be 'forced to earn more' or booted back home ?

What if you are in Thailand to do voluntary work for the poor and needy ?

What if you are the Lord Buddha himself with miraculous healing powers ? Will you be booted out too because you don't earn a big enough salary ?

[mbkudu]

The only ones they're making exceptions for are English teachers. At least the govt. has enough sense to figure that one out. Teachers are low on the income scale and do tremendous amounts of work, nothing in this world ever really makes sense. What is ironic is that the lowest paid Farang English teachers are the ones

working for government schools. it's just crazy. It's almost as bad as a story I read recently about a guy who got a job in Iraq as a lifeguard at a swimming pool

looking out for GIs while they swim on their time off. The guys pay is US$80,000

per year, while the guys he is 'guarding' risk their lives in combat and get paid

US$20,000-30,000 a year! They must want to kick his a$$.

[caughtintheact2]

thought it was 800,000 baht OR 60,000 baht per month income, but then I saw another description of the rules which seemed to indicate that I needed to show an additional 800,000 baht in the bank (or 800,000 baht of income) each year. Can anyone clarify the retirement income rules for me?

The current rule for retirement is one of the following options:

1. B800,000 in a bank account in a bank in Thailand or....

2. A pension of B65,000 per month (This must be supported by a letter or affidavit from your embassy in Thailand so you would need some documentary evidence of the pension, which, if from a private company or fund, should state that the pension is good for life (if that is the case - t6his is not a rule, but I have read elsewhere that the pension route to proof of income might not be allowed if the pension could run out - if you have a government pension or military retirement pay, then this is not a problem - you will just need the letter (affidavit) the first year you apply for retirement here) or....

3. A combination of the two, which works as follows:

If you have a pension of B30,000 per month multiply it by 12 (months), which is B360,000 per year. Subtract the B360,000 from the B800,000 requirement, which comes to B440,000. Thus you would need to show B440,000 in the bank when you go to renew your visa each year.

[MekhongKurt]

On several different occasions I have had fairly lengthy conversations at Soi Suan Phlu with numerous Immigration officers, about retirement visas in particular, as that is the one that will aplly to me should I elect to pursue it.

The answer regarding the financial requirements have been consistent from all sources for nearly a year: in the case of a retirement visa, one must show a monthly income of 62,500 baht OR money in the bank in the amount of at least 800,000 baht OR a combination of ther two. In other words, I have been told, consistently, if I have an income, say, of 31,250 baht per month AND a minimum of 400,000 baht in the bank, I could still qualify.

I suspect a lot of the confusion arose about 2 years ago when a friend of mine who works at Immigration discovered there had been a translation error of the English-language handout officers were distributing -- where it SHOULD have said "or" it said "and." I argued with my friend repeatedly, and each time he went back, checked, and insisted the law says "or." Finally, I was at Immigration for an extension or whatever one day and asked for a copy of the handout. When I saw my friend, I gave him the handout and said, "Maybe it says 'and' in Thai -- but there's what they're telling us in English." He was shocked. I know he reported it, and he says steps were taken to correct the error, though I haven't followed up.

Regional offices seem to be having their own problems, too, in figuring out just what to do, and if anecdotal reports are correct, then there sure is wide variance of requirements. I don't know how we're supposed to deal with that.

(The usual disclaimer: I am in no way trying to suggest I am a lawyer or immigration expert.)

[Xeque]

Hi all,

I've only recently joined the group so my question may well have been answered before. In that case my apologies.

I am not yet retired. I make my money by undertaking short term contracts in Europe or Australia - wherever I can find them. This gives me sufficient income to be able to maintain a pretty good lifestyle in Thailand.

I own property worth about 2 million Baht. I support a Thai partner and her 16 year old daughter still at school. I also support my partners 26 year old son who has mental problems but who is getting better with treatment and is increasingly able to support himself.

I have a one year multiple entry non-immigrant visa issued in London and due to expire in January 2005. This is ideal for my needs as I am coming and going all the time. I realise that it is formally meant for businessmen doing business in Thailand whilst I am using it for a 'reverse' function but does that matter?

What are the ramifications of all this new stuff for me. If I total up all the funds that I have brought into Thailand over the past 2 years it averages out at considerably more than the 45,000 Baht per month stipulated in the rules.

I am very reluctant to deposit large sums of cash into a holding account in Thailand. There is no guarantee that I could ever get the funds out again and are the banks going to transfer interest earned on such deposits out into a working account? Somehow I doubt it.

[simple1]

To obtain a one year "O" muli-entry visa I will assume you have a marriage certificate, if so, you will need to demonstrate 400,000 baht in a Thai bank account supported by a letter from your Thai bank confirming the money was deposited from an overseas bank. However, if you are travelling in & out of Thailand on a regular basis why not just obtain a 30 day on demand tourist visa each time you entre the country?Also you should be aware that as a foreigner you will not earn interest on your Thai bank deposit (Bank of Thailand regulation), plus you will be charged 500 baht a month service fee.

[ThaiPauly]

Hi Guys, this is as confusing for me as it is for many others.

last week I handed in my work permit at the ministry of labour as I have ceased trading activities in Thailand, but obviously want to stay as I will be getting married soon. I was given a slip of paper which I was told to take to immigration where they would recind my one year visa, (not happy) When I arrived I just happened to bump into my lawyer who said this was unessarry as the visa had been granted by the Thai embassy in London and once issued by them Immigration have no power to recind it. He took my passport went away and said, yes this was the case as long as I of course left the country every 3 months. Does anybody have any hard and fast answers regarding this?

I have two options regarding what I can do when my visa expires. I

1) Apply for a marriage visa

2) Apply for a retirement visa.

From what I can understand from the postings it makes no difference which one I apply for right? In terms of being able to show I have sufficient means to live here.

If one is better than the other can someone please help me and clarify.

Many Thanks

T.P

[Khun ?]

The only ones they're making exceptions for are English teachers. At least the govt. has enough sense to figure that one out. Teachers are low on the income scale and do tremendous amounts of work, nothing in this world ever really makes sense. What is ironic is that the lowest paid Farang English teachers are the ones

working for government schools. it's just crazy. It's almost as bad as a story I read recently about a guy who got a job in Iraq as a lifeguard at a swimming pool

looking out for GIs while they swim on their time off. The guys pay is US$80,000

per year, while the guys he is 'guarding' risk their lives in combat and get paid

US$20,000-30,000 a year! They must want to kick his a$$.

Does the guy working at the pool get family provided benefits and a retirement after 20 years work. Does the guy get reassignment from there at the same pay rate or more. So the guy at the pool may of gave up work somewhere else for a job that may only last a few months. Sounds like he may of gave up more than he

receives long term. Short term gain for a long term loss is not that good of a deal

then of course if you are narrow minded you only look at the one number 80,000

and you do not pay attention to the print thats states 30 day notice is the only thing you will receive when your times up. No pension benefits to boot or anything else. A pat on the back and we expect you out of here next month is the only thing

you will get. I would also say that he is in the same range of a rocket as anyone else in the area let alone most will get no insurance if something happens to him/her.

[rodcourt49]

Would anyone car to reply please to my post of yesterday regarding SuppThai Wife question. OR can you give me the e-mail address of the Head Office for Thai Immig in Bangkok so as I can get the answers there myself. CMs Offices' reply doesn't seem right to me!

[heychay]

[The only ones they're making exceptions for are English teachers. At least the govt. has enough sense to figure that one out.]

Where does this information come from? The regulations say nothing about teachers being exempt.

[john b good]

From the original posting..........

BANGKOK -- In accordance with the Immigration Bureau’s order No. 110/2546 subject to regulations and requirements of stay for foreigners which has been effective since July 10, 2003, and for the visa extension concerning business and Thai Sponsor or Permanent Resident sponsor, which will be effective from July 10, 2004.

Thai Sponsor or Permanent Resident sponsor

To clarify the word "sponsor" is this taken to mean that your Thai wife is your sponsor. (or say for a wife / husband of a permanent resident)

Is that what you take it to be Doc?

The more questions that arise the more confused it gets......

And will 400K in the bank then be sufficient?

I might add that considering the different income levels in country's around the globe I don't think it is unreasonable that there are varying amounts of money (as being required) to meet the visa requirements.

[george]

Where does this information come from? The regulations say nothing about teachers being exempt.

The source is Immigration Bureau’s order No. 110/2546

[Foggy Bottom]

More confusion for Journo's on this one

The Phuket regs on another thread said min 20k if working for a newspaper but nationality minimums if for a magazine

This one changes the job title to correspondent (and I had the mother and father of all rows at one stop earlier this year about that nomenclature - ended up having to do extra trips there from Chiangmai)

and says that it is 20k with no caveats

<deleted> is going on here - are different departments and divisions deliberately trying to cloud the issue and confuse us? Pretty short sighted to diss the foreign press I'd have thought

[Loong Dave]

I have another senario to consider if you plan on staying here for a long time. The Thai government only allows you to take 500,000 baht out of the country plus what you brought into the country. The important part is the incoming money must be documented by bank transfer, not ATM receipts. Some people have told me I won't have over 500,000 to take out. But what if you bought a car or truck for 1,000,000+ baht and when you have enough of the immigration bullshit decide to leave. You sell your vehicle for 800,000 baht but the government will only allow you to take 500,000 baht out.

Is this income you declare considered as money coming inwhich you can take the equivalent out or is this considered money from Thailand and only allowing you to take out 500,000 with the remaining 300,000 remaining here?

[Dutchy]

Also you should be aware that as a foreigner you will not earn interest on your Thai bank deposit (Bank of Thailand regulation), plus you will be charged 500 baht a month service fee.

Hmm both incorrect newby....

[Dutchy]

From the original posting..........

BANGKOK -- In accordance with the Immigration Bureau’s order No. 110/2546 subject to regulations and requirements of stay for foreigners which has been effective since July 10, 2003, and for the visa extension concerning business and Thai Sponsor or Permanent Resident sponsor, which will be effective from July 10, 2004.

Thai Sponsor or Permanent Resident sponsor

To clarify the word "sponsor" is this taken to mean that your Thai wife is your sponsor. (or say for a wife / husband of a permanent resident)

And will 400K in the bank then be sufficient?

I might add that considering the different income levels in country's around the globe I don't think it is unreasonable that there are varying amounts of money (as being required) to meet the visa requirements.

If it's 400k and the wife can sponsor, it wouldn't be a bad deal, quite reasonable then we all need to live off something, don't we. But I haven't seen this confirmed yet.

With regards to your last point, <deleted>, why does an American needs 60000 baht a month to live off in Thailand and a German national 50000.?

[Dutchy]

I have another senario to consider if you plan on staying here for a long time. The Thai government only allows you to take 500,000 baht out of the country plus what you brought into the country. The important part is the incoming money must be documented by bank transfer, not ATM receipts. Some people have told me I won't have over 500,000 to take out. But what if you bought a car or truck for 1,000,000+ baht and when you have enough of the immigration bullshit decide to leave. You sell your vehicle for 800,000 baht but the government will only allow you to take 500,000 baht out.

Is this income you declare considered as money coming inwhich you can take the equivalent out or is this considered money from Thailand and only allowing you to take out 500,000 with the remaining 300,000 remaining here?

The Thai government wants to take $30m out to buy a football team and distract attention from more urgent issues, we can only take 500.000 out? ha ha!

I'm sure you will find a way to get that money out of Thailand...

Dutchy

[coalminer]

To obtain a one year "O" muli-entry visa I will assume you have a marriage certificate, if so, you will need to demonstrate 400,000 baht in a Thai bank account supported by a letter from your Thai bank confirming the money was deposited from an overseas bank. However, if you are travelling in & out of Thailand on a regular basis why not just obtain a 30 day on demand tourist visa each time you entre the country?Also you should be aware that as a foreigner you will not earn interest on your Thai bank deposit (Bank of Thailand regulation), plus you will be charged 500 baht a month service fee.

Err,

I have received interest on my savings account at Asia Bank for 3 years already.

No interest however on my current account.

And you are allowed to take back out of the kingdom the same amount of money as you imported from an account outside Thailand into the kingdom.

Only drawback: you have to proof that the money was brought into the kingdom by TT. SWIFT or other kind of money transfers.

No ATM slips.

Carlos