UK PM Johnson plans to block extension of Brexit transition beyond 2020

[englishoak]

2 hours ago, Nanglon said:

Claims here that fisheries account for a mere 0.12% of UK economy. Yet emotions run high .... possibly a give away for Boris to achieve other more significant gains?

 

https://maritime-executive.com/editorials/brexit-s-impact-on-the-uk-s-fisheries 

 

The article is a good window on the possibilities and we can rule out the last scenario as we are leaving and probably the first.. a deal of some form is most likely to be struck... id also suggest The UK leaves the EU on existing CFP conditions option is unliklely with Boris. I would expect a renegotiation, under a May Gov id have said it would be traded away to remain as it already is.... under Boris ? the fisheries issue atm is not trending but it will, many remember the past issues and result and will expect Boris to deliver something of merit, id like to think there would be a re renegotiation and more like a compromise enabling the British fishing industry to grow and as suggested the EU would possibly compensate members who lose out and thus allowing both sides to save face and claim a victory... Time will tell

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, Nanglon said:

Claims here that fisheries account for a mere 0.12% of UK economy. Yet emotions run high .... possibly a give away for Boris to achieve other more significant gains?

 

https://maritime-executive.com/editorials/brexit-s-impact-on-the-uk-s-fisheries 

He might but that would start to erode his support immediately. 

[david555]

( If Boris think to threatening 11 months …., check the purple marked  line in attachment ,he has only limited months (5) to do that ….)

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/18/cliff-edge-brexit-will-hurt-uk-more-than-eu-says-von-der-leyen

 

Ursula von der Leyen has warned that a cliff-edge Brexit at the end of 2020 will hurt the UK more than the EU as she laid out her intentions to “make the most” out of the “extremely challenging” 11 months available to strike a trade deal.

 

The European commission president acknowledged the danger of time running out during the negotiations, a risk many fear has been amplified by Boris Johnson’s symbolic decision to legislate to block an extension of the transition period.

 

Should the UK leave the EU on 31 January, as is now assumed in Brussels, the country will remain in the customs union and single market until 31 December 2020 at which point any newly negotiated arrangements on issues such as trade, security and fisheries will come into force.

Clif edge will hurt U.K more than E.U..pdf

Edited December 19, 2019 by david555

[sandyf]

18 hours ago, englishoak said:

 

I didnt ignore what you said it was just pointless addressing supposition only, you dont "know" anything but you sure like to pretend you do. 

 

Do we take it that you know for a fact that Bojo will not concede any fishing rights to the EU. Of course you don't, just defending your hero.

[sandyf]

18 hours ago, pixelaoffy said:

Really are in a fantasy world aren't you Sandyman! Fishing Waters are British and there will be a 200 mile exclusion zone for the Scottish fisherman. This choice of "decimate blah blah  .. is your own creation. Oh and the big promise by the PM is being enacted in just over a months time.. Do keep up.

With over 70% of exports going to the EU, what do you think is going to happen to the jobs in the onshore fishing industry if the EU do not get any fishing rights.

Is it any wonder that the largest part of the Scottish fishing industry wanted to remain, to the simple mind fishing means boats.

 

The seafood processing sector is larger than both the aquaculture and fishing industries, with a turnover of £1.6 billion by 2016 - just over double that of aquaculture and nearly three times that of fishing.

 

In Scotland, the sector is based in the North East, the Highlands and Islands and on the West Coast, and makes a significant contribution to the local economies in these areas.

https://digitalpublications.parliament.scot/ResearchBriefings/Report/2019/7/5/Seafood-processing-in-Scotland--an-industry-profile

[englishoak]

20 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Do we take it that you know for a fact that Bojo will not concede any fishing rights to the EU. Of course you don't, just defending your hero.

 

Oh you poor butthurt man, I wasnt claiming to know whats going to happen, you were.. and i didnt vote Tory but very happy comrade Corbyn isnt going to be able to wreck the country and so far the noises from Boris are satisfactory... 

 

Queens speech today, setting out the Intentions for leaving, confirming the NHS boost 50% small business rate cut will be very welcome and much much more. excellent day ahead and a terrible one for Communist lefties and pro EU nuts everywhere.

[sandyf]

22 hours ago, SheungWan said:

So then, is Scotland prepared to drop Sterling for the Euro? It didn't happen last time.

What happened in the past cannot be taken as any indication of what will happen in the future, Bojo voted against the May deal and then for it.

Doesn't everyone have the right to change their mind?, not according to Bojo.

[sandyf]

3 minutes ago, englishoak said:

Oh you poor butthurt man, I wasnt claiming to know whats going to happen, you were..

When all else fails, fall back on personal attacks.

From a link in previous post you also chose to ignore.

 

"The UK may also have to make concessions on EU demands to continue fishing access in British waters."

[englishoak]

14 minutes ago, sandyf said:

When all else fails, fall back on personal attacks.

From a link in previous post you also chose to ignore.

 

  "The UK may also have to make concessions on EU demands to continue fishing access in British waters."

 

1  "just defending your hero" was a personal attack,if you dont like the return dont throw stones.

 

2  "The UK may also have to make concessions etc 

 

Ive highlighted and underlined the key word...MAY....three times just for you.... I ididnt ignore anything and once again you are trying to make possibilities facts.. they arnt. Have a great day. 

Edited December 19, 2019 by englishoak

[billd766]

19 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

They are not being taxed twice. They are paying the rate applicable in Scotland not the rest of UK.

Therefore they are being taxed twice. Once at the English rate and again with the difference in the Scottish rate. Is this why there are so many Scots working south of the border so they pay less tax?

 

Is it up to each country in the Union to set its own income tax rates?

 

19 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

 

 

 

 

[billd766]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

Do we take it that you know for a fact that Bojo will not concede any fishing rights to the EU. Of course you don't, just defending your hero.

Actually Sandy there are very few people (and none on TVF) who know exactly what 2020 will bring from Boris. It will be the end of 2020 before we know what he has promised and kept or didn't didn't keep.

 

The Queen's speech today should make it a bit clearer but the details will be the nitty gritty hard work.

 

There needs to be some give and take on both sides and up to now it has been mostly the UK gives and the EU takes. Now with the Tory majority the EU needs to listen and talk.

Edited December 19, 2019 by billd766
added extra text

[Nanglon]

https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2018/10/11/fishing-quota-uk-defra-michael-gove/ 

 

Will the government listen to the gripes of the small boats, or cave in to the wealthier partly foreign owned trawlers? Can Boris rule the waves?

[cleopatra2]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

Therefore they are being taxed twice. Once at the English rate and again with the difference in the Scottish rate. Is this why there are so many Scots working south of the border so they pay less tax?

 

Is it up to each country in the Union to set its own income tax rates?

 

 

 

 

No it does not function like that.

A person living in Scotland gets a S prefix tax code. For example S1250L as opposed to 1250L for a person not living in Scotland.

Whoever is responsible for collecting the tax , employer , pension etc , see the S prefix and applies the Scottish rates .

This still goes to the HMRC who then forwards to Scottish government.

The criteria for Scottish rate depends upon where the person lives not place of employment.

 

Tax rates are a Scottish devolved competency

Edited December 19, 2019 by cleopatra2

[cleopatra2]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

Actually Sandy there are very few people (and none on TVF) who know exactly what 2020 will bring from Boris. It will be the end of 2020 before we know what he has promised and kept or didn't didn't keep.

 

The Queen's speech today should make it a bit clearer but the details will be the nitty gritty hard work.

 

There needs to be some give and take on both sides and up to now it has been mostly the UK gives and the EU takes. Now with the Tory majority the EU needs to listen and talk.

Even at the end of 2020 thd UK and EU can carry on negotatating.

Boris has only promised not to extend the transition period. This does not eliminate further deals with the EU after the transition has ended.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by cleopatra2

[URMySunshine]

Selfishly I was hoping for a post-election Boris baht bounce and on the day and after I thought we had it and dreamed of getting 45 before the end of January. I do hope we won't have to wait for year end before we climb again. 

[stevenl]

55 minutes ago, URMySunshine said:

Selfishly I was hoping for a post-election Boris baht bounce and on the day and after I thought we had it and dreamed of getting 45 before the end of January. I do hope we won't have to wait for year end before we climb again. 

Why would it climb at year end?

[NanLaew]

On 12/17/2019 at 7:54 PM, stevenl said:

So what will your long term economic gain be?

This question from the guy who, when asked what the downsides would be, demurred as apparently that's already been categorized as just more doom and gloom. Ever wondered why it is repeatedly disparaged?

 

FWIW, here's my Christmas 2021 wish list.

 

• A stronger £ that is less vulnerable to volatile swings of other currencies.
• A stronger balance of payments account.
• A GDP that elevates the UK back into the top 3 (top 4 will be fine for now but keep those Indians behind you!).
• More social cohesion and less personal disenfranchisement.
• A strengthening of the Union, regardless of the machinations of the Nationalists north of the border (but since the Unionists have purposely left Stormont moribund for almost three years, I reckon NI can eventually be allowed to submerge, rightfully, back into Eire).

 

I hope we see a generation of British twenty-somethings rise to the challenges and make the most of the benefits and opportunities that this renewed British independence will inevitably create. Those graduates that were so visibly upset that the 'old people' had stolen their dream of working in Europe back in 2016 can now focus on the country of their birthright, making their homeland stronger and working on local issues and national development regardless of the <deleted> weather and the trains running late (again). They can fly British Airways again and not some over-funded mid-east carrier just because "BA is <deleted>" (wherein in reality it just looks way more cool to say you flew with a foreign carrier). Work harder than you ever have before at strengthening all the fabled British institutions other than the bloody NHS that have been allowed to acquiesce under the EU's flawed, one-size-fits-all tutelage. With Brexit, decades of Britain's burgeoning existential angst is over so roll up your sleeves and just get on with it.

[stevenl]

11 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

This question from the guy who, when asked what the downsides would be, demurred as apparently that's already been categorized as just more doom and gloom. Ever wondered why it is repeatedly disparaged?

 

FWIW, here's my Christmas 2021 wish list.

 

• A stronger £ that is less vulnerable to volatile swings of other currencies.
• A stronger balance of payments account.
• A GDP that elevates the UK back into the top 3 (top 4 will be fine for now but keep those Indians behind you!).
• More social cohesion and less personal disenfranchisement.
• A strengthening of the Union, regardless of the machinations of the Nationalists north of the border (but since the Unionists have purposely left Stormont moribund for almost three years, I reckon NI can eventually be allowed to submerge, rightfully, back into Eire).

 

I hope we see a generation of British twenty-somethings rise to the challenges and make the most of the benefits and opportunities that this renewed British independence will inevitably create. Those graduates that were so visibly upset that the 'old people' had stolen their dream of working in Europe back in 2016 can now focus on the country of their birthright, making their homeland stronger and working on local issues and national development regardless of the <deleted> weather and the trains running late (again). They can fly British Airways again and not some over-funded mid-east carrier just because "BA is <deleted>" (wherein in reality it just looks way more cool to say you flew with a foreign carrier). Work harder than you ever have before at strengthening all the fabled British institutions other than the bloody NHS that have been allowed to acquiesce under the EU's flawed, one-size-fits-all tutelage. With Brexit, decades of Britain's burgeoning existential angst is over so roll up your sleeves and just get on with it.

Nice wishlist, but unfortunately just the usual babble. This will get better, that will get better, roll up our sleeves, but no explanation on how this all will be achieved.

[DannyCarlton]

Double post.

Edited December 19, 2019 by DannyCarlton

[DannyCarlton]

20 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

• A stronger £ that is less vulnerable to volatile swings of other currencies.
• A stronger balance of payments account.
• A GDP that elevates the UK back into the top 3 (top 4 will be fine for now but keep those Indians behind you!).
• More social cohesion and less personal disenfranchisement.
• A strengthening of the Union, regardless of the machinations of the Nationalists north of the border

Only chance of any of that happening was if we'd remained in the EU. That ship has sailed now.

[NanLaew]

27 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Nice wishlist, but unfortunately just the usual babble. This will get better, that will get better, roll up our sleeves, but no explanation on how this all will be achieved.

Ever the minimalist.

 

For which I, for one, am thankful

Edited December 19, 2019 by NanLaew

[NanLaew]

3 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Only chance of any of that happening was if we'd remained in the EU. That ship has sailed now.

The generation of people that have to make it work will make it work. Apart from the recent vacillating rabble of MP's that have been for the greater part washed away, the British are still quite good at making things work regardless of the adversity being faced. This idea that the UK will be consumed by the lost, inward-looking legions of hand-wringing indolent perpetually wondering 'What if?' is quite laughable. Historically, that hasn't been a trait observed of the British.

 

Most of those that feel suddenly out of their EU-enabled comfort zone will eventually catch on. Those that don't, the few lost, inward-looking legions of hand-wringing indolent perpetually wondering 'What if?'... they'll be the ones missing your boat.

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

The generation of people that have to make it work will make it work. Apart from the recent vacillating rabble of MP's that have been for the greater part washed away, the British are still quite good at making things work regardless of the adversity being faced. This idea that the UK will be consumed by the lost, inward-looking legions of hand-wringing indolent perpetually wondering 'What if?' is quite laughable. Historically, that hasn't been a trait observed of the British.

 

Most of those that feel suddenly out of their EU-enabled comfort zone will eventually catch on. Those that don't, the few lost, inward-looking legions of hand-wringing indolent perpetually wondering 'What if?'... they'll be the ones missing your boat.

Thanks for confirming my post.

[NanLaew]

5 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Thanks for confirming my post.

What?! You agree with this?

 

6 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Most of those that feel suddenly out of their EU-enabled comfort zone will eventually catch on. Those that don't, the few lost, inward-looking legions of hand-wringing indolent perpetually wondering 'What if?'... they'll be the ones missing your boat.

Thanks!

[billd766]

3 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

No it does not function like that.

A person living in Scotland gets a S prefix tax code. For example S1250L as opposed to 1250L for a person not living in Scotland.

Whoever is responsible for collecting the tax , employer , pension etc , see the S prefix and applies the Scottish rates .

This still goes to the HMRC who then forwards to Scottish government.

The criteria for Scottish rate depends upon where the person lives not place of employment.

 

Tax rates are a Scottish devolved competency

Thank you for that as I had no idea.

 

So servicemen and women posted to Scotland do pay extra income tax and the difference between the two goes to Scotland.

 

Which takes me back to my original point of a double standard between Scotland and the rest of the UK, hence the LOA allowance for servicemen and women posted to Scotland and double standard taxes.

 

Servicemen and women posted to Scotland have no choice in the matter.

 

[NanLaew]

To be perfectly honest though, there can be absolutely no guarantees that the UK will do well in any prescribed time frame. By the same token, there's no providence at all to claim the UK won't do well. It's all so many hypotheticals in lieu of any tangibles on both sides and nobody can lay any claim to be the one getting it right.

 

However, I have immense faith in human nature and I consider that the more positive UK collective will prevail for the common good and greater betterment moving forward. I would rather think that the addage "You've made your bed, so lie in it" applies here but I have faith and confidence that suitably motivated and appropriately incentivized British people will make it a king sized, four-poster in their own home rather than a sleeping bag in someone else's spare room.

[stevenl]

17 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

What?! You agree with this?

 

Thanks!

I don't agree with that or give the impression I agree with that.

[NanLaew]

A comment on the OP and Boris's pledge to make it illegal to seek an extension. Looks good but ultimately insignificant. Due to the wonderful unwritten British constitution, a law can be issued to revoke this and, if it fits the state of play and his agenda at the time, even Boris himself could propose to legislate to the contrary.

[cleopatra2]

9 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Thank you for that as I had no idea.

 

So servicemen and women posted to Scotland do pay extra income tax and the difference between the two goes to Scotland.

 

Which takes me back to my original point of a double standard between Scotland and the rest of the UK, hence the LOA allowance for servicemen and women posted to Scotland and double standard taxes.

 

Servicemen and women posted to Scotland have no choice in the matter.

 

Not quite

The tax collected from Scottish Income Tax goes to the Scottish Government.

 

Thus if a person is liable to Scotland Income Tax of 21% then the Scottish government gets the full 21% 

[NanLaew]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I don't agree with that or give the impression I agree with that.

I know you don't but I didn't expect any less from someone of the 'glass half empty' persuasion.