Tippaporn Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, stevenl said: No, it ain't. For the UK and nearly all individuals this is economically bad. From an outsider's perspective it is well known that the Brits once created an Empire that consisted of a good portion of the known world. It seems antithetical that they now fear for their existence if the teet of the EU is pulled away. I don't understand the fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david555 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, billd766 said: That is their choice. If they want to negotiate in good faith, they can do so. If they want us to leave on 31st January as a "hard Brexit" they can do that too. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/16/boris-johnson-will-amend-brexit-bill-to-outlaw-extension down down the article first E.U. reactions: , flight agreements seems can not be handled as after 2020 same for financial services ..... Once more here we go.....GBP plummeting already (not in Thailand as now just Boris plans appeared ) so better change now …. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 minute ago, billd766 said: Doom and gloom again from you Steven. You don't seem to be willing to give it a try. You're really barking up the wrong tree here, if there is one person seeing the good in anything it is me. But economically there is nothing good about this, no matter how people want to twist and turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, stevenl said: You're really barking up the wrong tree here, if there is one person seeing the good in anything it is me. But economically there is nothing good about this, no matter how people want to twist and turn. Could you explain why it isnt economically "good" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 hour ago, englishoak said: The legal show wont get anywhere with a strong majority government, the judicial meddles when there is a weak gov or if you prefer no clear will from the people. That has been rectified in this election. Im certain Miller will continue her crusade but there is nothing much she or her lawyers can do, Brexit is now in the hands of a strong majority government with a clear mandate ( or demand ) and will to leave..thats that really. If Boris enshrines into law no further delays possible then it will focus the minds in the EU to get a deal done. With a majority of 80, Johnson can go for a hard deal or a soft deal. Either way, the EU has to agree. We are in the age of populism, thats both good and bad but there is a rule we can apply that mostly proves to be accurate with someone such as Boris. Politicians are liars and cannot be trusted including Boris we all know that. However,Politicians will actually do what they say if they believe it is in their best interest, this applies very much to Boris and his current position. Example our Fishing rights in negotiations with the EU. Most would and are expecting Boris to hand them over but I dont. Why ? quite simply because of Scotland. Y'see Scotland wants control over its fishing rights, something the EU would never allow a member state but it would have it in the UK, this would be a very useful tool against Sturgeon and id say its in Johnsons best interest to keep the fishing rights as a tool to use regarding Scotland's future and leaving. Boris imo is very likely to amend the law to make an extension impossible, he needs to show it to the electorate and its in his best interest, so he will. Similarly hard or soft it is in the EUs best interest to have a deal in place by the deadline and given Germany has the most to lose and holds the most power in the EU a deal will very likely happen. If I were Boris id turn the screw real hard on the EU now knowing its in his best interest to show tough to the British people, strengthen our negotiating position and in the EUs best interest to get a deal done regardless. Good points, especially re fishing/Scotland. I am convinced that the CFP is the main reason that Norway did not join the EU but settled for the EEA. I don't think most of the Scots that seem so set on their "independence" have fully considered all of the consequences of leaving the UK, even if somehow they manage to stay in an EU, which will eventually allow much less autonomy than presently. I really hope that the UK stays intact but a break up of it, in my mind, was always the primary risk involved in leaving the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Momofarang said: Is the "Upper house" one of those "Undemocratic european institutions"? Quite similar now after relatively recent modifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 44 minutes ago, SheungWan said: One would almost think that the House of Lords was a Labour Party invention. More of a modification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 22 minutes ago, stevenl said: EU has been negotiating in good faith for a long time already, it really is up to the UK to come through now. Posts like this really cheer me up. I needed a laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 20 minutes ago, sanemax said: Could you explain why it isnt economically "good" ? No, this has been explained many, many times already only to be shot down as doom and gloom. No worries, you'll notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david555 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Just now, stevenl said: No, this has been explained many, many times already only to be shot down as doom and gloom. No worries, you'll notice. Right.....Just let them find out by themselves , only way they go believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vogie Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 11 minutes ago, david555 said: Right.....Just let them find out by themselves , only way they go believe it. But should on our road to Shangri La it goes slightly askew can we rely on you and your unbiased expert opinions to get us back on track? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 17 minutes ago, stevenl said: No, this has been explained many, many times already only to be shot down as doom and gloom. No worries, you'll notice. It may well be just "doom & gloom" . There will be some negatives and some positives and you may get a skewed outlook if you just focus on the negatives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david555 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 31 minutes ago, vogie said: But should on our road to Shangri La it goes slightly askew can we rely on you and your unbiased expert opinions to get us back on track? No , I am also convinced that the find out by yourself is best way , instead of useless yes/no game popping up your egos & easing your minds. It has endless being said by E.U. NO re-ne-go-ti-at-io-ns ! up to you to think differently, wait and just see ... Boris played his game for his purpose he has it....he is and stay PM .. de rest is to see what comes out of it for your splitting U.K. Now it is up to see how the other side go react.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david555 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/17/eu-says-boris-johnson-outlawing-brexit-extension-will-restrict-uk-options Boris Johnson's Brexit extension block 'will limit UK options' Brussels prepares to restrict scope of talks in light of British PM’s ‘strange’ move Boris Johnson’s plan to make it illegal for the government to extend the Brexit transition period beyond 11 months has been described as “strange” by Ireland’s deputy prime minister, as Brussels prepared to limit the scope of the coming negotiations. Simon Coveney said it amounted to the “UK deciding to tie itself in terms of options” while the director general for trade in the European commission, Sabine Weyand, said the ambition of any deal would need to be pared back. more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vogie Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, david555 said: No , I am also convinced that the find out by yourself is best way , instead of useless yes/no game popping up your egos & easing your minds. It has endless being said by E.U. NO re-ne-go-ti-at-io-ns ! up to you to think differently, wait and just see ... Boris played his game for his purpose he has it....he is and stay PM .. de rest is to see what comes out of it for your splitting U.K. Now it is up to see how the other side go react.... "It has endless being said by E.U. NO re-ne-go-ti-at-io-ns ! up to you to think differently, wait and just see ..." The EU may have said NO renegotiations, but those were in the days when our parliament were bigger jokers than the cards our PM held in his hand, all of a sudden we've been dealt a new hand with 3 aces, a game changer. Macron has for the first time as shown a sudden interest in getting a deal and indeed wants to be our friend. We are now playing on a more level playing field, kerching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vogie Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, david555 said: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/17/eu-says-boris-johnson-outlawing-brexit-extension-will-restrict-uk-options Boris Johnson's Brexit extension block 'will limit UK options' Brussels prepares to restrict scope of talks in light of British PM’s ‘strange’ move Boris Johnson’s plan to make it illegal for the government to extend the Brexit transition period beyond 11 months has been described as “strange” by Ireland’s deputy prime minister, as Brussels prepared to limit the scope of the coming negotiations. Simon Coveney said it amounted to the “UK deciding to tie itself in terms of options” while the director general for trade in the European commission, Sabine Weyand, said the ambition of any deal would need to be pared back. more... Dithering don't do deals, deadlines make for good deals, enough delays already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david555 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Just now, vogie said: "It has endless being said by E.U. NO re-ne-go-ti-at-io-ns ! up to you to think differently, wait and just see ..." The EU may have said NO renegotiations, but those were in the days when our parliament were bigger jokers than the cards our PM held in his hand, all of a sudden we've been dealt a new hand with 3 aces, a game changer. Macron has for the first time as shown a sudden interest in getting a deal and indeed wants to be our friend. We are now playing on a more level playing field, kerching. Than it will be very frustrated to specially you to find out that that does not change the E.U. position …. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
URMySunshine Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Hi there , long time lurker and an ardent Brexiteer. Glad to see the Corbyn dragon slayed and Boris in with a great majority. He can now afford to tack where he will and get Brexit done as it says on the tin. Unfortunately in negotiating with the EU he needs to keep the threat of no deal on the table until we have a first draft of a FTA with the EU in place at the end of the year. If this means volatility on the pound until then so be it. Recasting 42 years of EU alignment was never going to be easy and it was necessary for Boris to package this in easy to understand soundbites or we could have the far worse spectre of a Corbyn led coalition dominating the landscape until kingdom come. The important thing is he has a huge mandate and I for one am prepared to take short and medium term pain for long term gain in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
englishoak Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 25 minutes ago, david555 said: No , I am also convinced that the find out by yourself is best way , instead of useless yes/no game popping up your egos & easing your minds. It has endless being said by E.U. NO re-ne-go-ti-at-io-ns ! up to you to think differently, wait and just see ... Boris played his game for his purpose he has it....he is and stay PM .. de rest is to see what comes out of it for your splitting U.K. Now it is up to see how the other side go react.... Im in total agreement, we can find our own way and always have, often coming to the rescue of Europe I might add. The EU said there would be no renegotiation regarding the withdrawal agreement but there was. The has been zero negotiations as yet on stage 2 so its a bit hard to renegotiate what hasnt taken place as yet. As for splitting I hope to see a unified Ireland but In case youd missed it the EU has already in its short lifetime split and lost one of its major partners and one of only three net contributors, the UK. So effectively the EU has already failed and broken up. I dont think the UK is going to be the last to leave either. PS quoting the Guardian is like quoting the Labour party.. its not very believable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, david555 said: Than it will be very frustrated to specially you to find out that that does not change the E.U. position …. Up to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
URMySunshine Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 minute ago, englishoak said: Im in total agreement, we can find our own way and always have, often coming to the rescue of Europe I might add. The EU said there would be no renegotiation regarding the withdrawal agreement but there was. The has been zero negotiations as yet on stage 2 so its a bit hard to renegotiate what hasnt taken place as yet. As for splitting I hope to see a unified Ireland but In case youd missed it the EU has already in its short lifetime split and lost one of its major partners and one of only three net contributors, the UK. So effectively the EU has already failed and broken up. I dont think the UK is going to be the last to leave either. We can hopefully send it on it's way to an early grave and be proud that we stood firm and cast loony leftism into the dustbin for at least a generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, URMySunshine said: Hi there , long time lurker and an ardent Brexiteer. Glad to see the Corbyn dragon slayed and Boris in with a great majority. He can now afford to tack where he will and get Brexit done as it says on the tin. Unfortunately in negotiating with the EU he needs to keep the threat of no deal on the table until we have a first draft of a FTA with the EU in place at the end of the year. If this means volatility on the pound until then so be it. Recasting 42 years of EU alignment was never going to be easy and it was necessary for Boris to package this in easy to understand soundbites or we could have the far worse spectre of a Corbyn led coalition dominating the landscape until kingdom come. The important thing is he has a huge mandate and I for one am prepared to take short and medium term pain for long term gain in the end. So what will your long term economic gain be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david555 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, englishoak said: Im in total agreement, we can find our own way and always have, often coming to the rescue of Europe I might add. The EU said there would be no renegotiation regarding the withdrawal agreement but there was. The has been zero negotiations as yet on stage 2 so its a bit hard to renegotiate what hasnt taken place as yet. As for splitting I hope t Boris Johnson’s plan to make it illegal for the government to extend the Brexit transition period beyond 11 months has been described as “strange” by Ireland’s deputy prime minister, as Brussels prepared to limit the scope of the coming negotiations. Simon Coveney said it amounted to the “UK deciding to tie itself in terms of options” while the director general for trade in the European commission, Sabine Weyand, said the ambition of any deal would need to be pared back. o see a unified Ireland but In case youd missed it the EU has already in its short lifetime split and lost one of its major partners and one of only three net contributors, the UK. So effectively the EU has already failed and broken up. I dont think the UK is going to be the last to leave either. You mean that with one foot in and one foot out E.U., acting as a gluing handbrake …? Like many said already …Charles DE Gaulle was right you don't fit in , your mistake AND our mistake,maybe now solved …? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david555 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, billd766 said: Up to them. Indeed..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 11 minutes ago, david555 said: Than it will be very frustrated to specially you to find out that that does not change the E.U. position …. He stated that the E.U position has indeed changed . BTW, which Country are you from ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david555 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, englishoak said: Im in total agreement, we can find our own way and always have, often coming to the rescue of Europe I might add. The EU said there would be no renegotiation regarding the withdrawal agreement but there was. The has been zero negotiations as yet on stage 2 so its a bit hard to renegotiate what hasnt taken place as yet. As for splitting I hope to see a unified Ireland but In case youd missed it the EU has already in its short lifetime split and lost one of its major partners and one of only three net contributors, the UK. So effectively the EU has already failed and broken up. I dont think the UK is going to be the last to leave either. PS quoting the Guardian is like quoting the Labour party.. its not very believable. Always they are a few hours before Sky news with same news ...strange not ? I also remarked that you now found refuge as defense in the leaving the E.U. by the U.K. ?…… I think we better see it as a repairing from the mistake pointed out by C. DE Gaulle before ….. maybe at mutual benefit (crossing fingers needed chaps ..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
englishoak Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Just now, david555 said: You mean that with one foot in and one foot out E.U., acting as a gluing handbrake …? Like many said already …Charles DE Gaulle was right you don't fit in , your mistake AND our mistake,maybe now solved …? LOL Your absolutely correct and so was De Gaulle, we dont fit in and we arnt Europeans. Yes it was a mistake to go into the ERM and were lied to from the beginning or we would have never joined, now we are getting out. You cant put a price on that, and nope i dont care a jot about the economic impact. i personally think it will be a positive as we have to make it work now but if its not its still fine with me, im not for sale and dont believe the average Brit is either, Europeans on the other hand....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david555 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, sanemax said: He stated that the E.U position has indeed changed . BTW, which Country are you from ? Forum rule …! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
URMySunshine Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, stevenl said: So what will your long term economic gain be? We will have the ability to set our own taxes and tariffs free of EU constraints. There is a lot of 'hot' money in the world looking for home and we have always done well in attracting that sort of money - post Brexit and with increasing instability in the world e.g. Hong Kong and the like we should be a magnet for inward investment. Post transition period we have £39 billion to spaff on what we decide we need to. A lot of the more undesirable migrants - romanian beggars and the like will get short shrift in a managed migration policy. Currently they get a fast pass to the front of social housing, NHS , benefits and the like. Like I said it might take one term of a Boris parliament to see these things coming through - the landscape has changed - maybe if I am dreaming we can get rid of these troublesome Scots and act done with their own hands. But I suspect Boris hasn't the stomach currently for that sort of fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 minute ago, david555 said: Forum rule …! OK dont answer, I will just assume that you are a continental European who wants the UK to remain in the E.U for your own benefit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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