Thai approved insurer rejected the coverage

[Alice Jone]

My friend who is living here based on non-OA. Thai approved insurer rejected her application citing her health history. Can anyone advise what should she do to renew her non OA?

[Pib]

Probably her only option now is to switch to a Non-O visa which does not require medical insurance. 

 

She can get a Non-O by doing a few days trip to a nearby Thai embassy like in Laos....or she could do a border exit with immediate reentry to get a Exempt entry and then convert to a Non-O at her servicing immigration office.  Switching to a Non-O has been talked extensively recently on ThaiVisa.

[Sheryl]

Would help to know her health history and age as from that I could advise whether worth trying with another insurer or not 

 

If not then the only option  is to change visa type. Options:

 

(1) O visa either obtained in the region or converted from a visa exempt entry in country. There are many recent threads describing how to do this. Once obtained do a one year extension of stay for retirement. O visa extensions do not currently require insurance.

 

(2) Thai Elite visa. 5 years for 500,000 baht or 1 million for 20 years. Other than this fee, no financial requirement and no insurance requirement.

 

(3) Spend only part of the year here using Multi entry tourist visa or sequential single entry TVs. Rest of the time elsewhere.

 

 

[DrJack54]

17 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Would help to know her health history and age as from that I could advise whether worth trying with another insurer or not 

 

If not then the only option  is to change visa type. Options:

 

(1) O visa either obtained in the region or converted from a visa exempt entry in country. There are many recent threads describing how to do this. Once obtained do a one year extension of stay for retirement. O visa extensions do not currently require insurance.

 

(2) Thai Elite visa. 5 years for 500,000 baht or 1 million for 20 years. Other than this fee, no financial requirement and no insurance requirement.

 

(3) Spend only part of the year here using Multi entry tourist visa or sequential single entry TVs. Rest of the time elsewhere.

 

 

Just prior to reading Sheryl advice, I was about to post Pib #3 had it covered.

However Sheryl has it completely covered. 

If ever insurance becomes mandatory across the board I will obtain elite or balance time outside of los as per item 3. 

Good excuse to spend some time Vietnam.

Don't think it will come to that.

While I'm at it ...that's Sheryl for all your info to us "less informed" in 2019. Ta

[jacko45k]

11 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

If ever insurance becomes mandatory across the board I will obtain elite or balance time outside of los as per item 3. 

I was thinking of this recently and truly fear this happening. I already have health insurance but it appears one is forced to buy a specific Thai policy that really is not very good. I certainly do not want to carry 2 policies, not sure I can even afford it. And if the qualifying policies are really as poor as is being suggested, surely they will not solve the problems that brought about this requirement, unpaid hospital bills. May even exacerbate it. Will Elite escape any 'across the board' consolidation?  

Edited December 26, 2019 by jacko45k

[Langsuan Man]

This is just the first of many rejections to come and despite everyone's opinion, history tells you this will eventually come to all Non Immigrant visas and renewals.  The kids game is called Whack-a-Mole, in Thailand it's called,  Royal Thai Immigration 

 

If any other country required mandatory health insurance they would force insurance companies to provide it or not let them write insurance policies

 

Much the same as they do for car insurance, mandatory insurance, a mandatory pool of un-insurable drivers that insurance companies must "share"  

[mokwit]

1 minute ago, Langsuan Man said:

history tells you this will eventually come to all Non Immigrant visas and renewals

It will be 'exit by a thousand cuts'. That is how they operate here.

 

 

[ubonjoe]

27 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

This is just the first of many rejections to come and despite everyone's opinion, history tells you this will eventually come to all Non Immigrant visas and renewals. 

I don't think it will. IMO it was not originally meant for extension application that were for entries from a old OA visa but that got messed up by the way immigration did the police order.

They picked the OA visa due to it being issued by an embassy or official Thai consulate. I think they had it in mind that there was a greater chance of them being more likely not to have ties to the country that would prevent them from bailing out of the country to avoid paying for a hospital bill than those on extension of stay.

[Langsuan Man]

9 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I don't think it will. IMO it was not originally meant for extension application that were for entries from a old OA visa but that got messed up by the way immigration did the police order.

They picked the OA visa due to it being issued by an embassy or official Thai consulate. I think they had it in mind that there was a greater chance of them being more likely not to have ties to the country that would prevent them from bailing out of the country to avoid paying for a hospital bill than those on extension of stay.

With all due respect from the TV leader on all things Immigration, when has Thai Immigration ever learned from past mistakes ?

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, Langsuan Man said:

With all due respect from the TV leader on all things Immigration, when has Thai Immigration ever learned from past mistakes ?

I don't think I wrote they had.

[Caldera]

Their insurance requirement makes no sense whatsoever as long as people can simply change from Non-OA to Non-O visa. They, too, will soon realize this and take corrective action.

[mfd101]

I'm currently on my 3rd extn of stay based on retirement (original OA visa in Oct 2015). If the health insurance requirement is still in place by October next year, I'm considering the Elite Visa as an alternative.

 

I note Sheryl's post above with price of 500K฿ for 5 years. That's about what they're going to extort from us for health insurance over 5 years anyway, so - in return for early payment of the full 500K - you get no further financial worries, no useless health insurance, and - I think? - some kind of VIP treatment on arrival (& departure?) at Suwanna or DMK ... Looks like it might be worth the deal, providing it's not a shonky that collapses 6 months after you paid up ...

[mokwit]

3 minutes ago, Caldera said:

Their insurance requirement makes no sense whatsoever as long as people can simply change from Non-OA to Non-O visa. They, too, will soon realize this and take corrective action.

Effectively they have changed the deal on OA holders without grandfathering. This is not a good precedent and not the only recent example. The fact that a workaround is currently available if you fulfill new criteria does not make it any less an official changing of the deal - especially as this workaround could be due to error/oversight.

[mokwit]

35 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

Looks like it might be worth the deal, providing it's not a shonky that collapses 6 months after you paid up ...

A worst case scenario for the elite visa is that you have to demonstrably be a permanent resident elsewhere* - either for new applications or ungrandfathered on extension - countering that from a pragmatic point of view is the bundling of Elites with property sales - Chinese affordable bolt hole if you have to leave China until the Emperor dies.

 

* I remember when Thaksin's blurting about how this visa could raise billions was reported - it was envisioned as a visa the very rich from e.g Hong Kong could use to stay in their Phuket villas while here on golfing holidays - literally that. The assumption here being that the buyers would be resident elsewhere. It was originally indicated that buyers would have the right to own LAND but this was dropped prior to launch. As the rich from most countries could fly in on a visa exempt or get their secretary to arrange a tourist visa sales were not immediately scintillating - I believe they sold 6 - one to a Japanese Company representative who one assumes was currying favour as he already would have had a work related visa. Shortly after that the visa tightening started - the more cynical were of the view that this was to try and force people onto this visa.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 26, 2019 by mokwit

[wgdanson]

38 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

I'm currently on my 3rd extn of stay based on retirement (original OA visa in Oct 2015). If the health insurance requirement is still in place by October next year, I'm considering the Elite Visa as an alternative.

 

I note Sheryl's post above with price of 500K฿ for 5 years. That's about what they're going to extort from us for health insurance over 5 years anyway, so - in return for early payment of the full 500K - you get no further financial worries, no useless health insurance, and - I think? - some kind of VIP treatment on arrival (& departure?) at Suwanna or DMK ... Looks like it might be worth the deal, providing it's not a shonky that collapses 6 months after you paid up ...

So you spend 500k on an Elite Visa. What would you do if you were hospitalised?

[mfd101]

6 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

So you spend 500k on an Elite Visa. What would you do if you were hospitalised?

That's a separate issue. At 70 & healthy I well understand that I need to take out some decent health insurance (inpatient only - basically 'catastrophe insurance'), given that I am not now eligible for Oz Medicare unless I return to live in Oz (which I have no intention of doing).

 

But I'm disinclined to be hustled in to some deal that involves paying for things I don't need (outpatient - which I can cover myself) along with less than reliable outcomes when claims are made.

[wgdanson]

5 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

That's a separate issue. At 70 & healthy I well understand that I need to take out some decent health insurance (inpatient only - basically 'catastrophe insurance'), given that I am not now eligible for Oz Medicare unless I return to live in Oz (which I have no intention of doing).

 

But I'm disinclined to be hustled in to some deal that involves paying for things I don't need (outpatient - which I can cover myself) along with less than reliable outcomes when claims are made.

Totally agree, just substitute UK NHS for Oz Medicare.

However my 'catastrophe insurance' with Cigna is over £3000 a year at a healthy age 72.

But I can't take it with me when my clogs need popping!

Edited December 26, 2019 by wgdanson

[DrJack54]

5 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

That's a separate issue. At 70 & healthy I well understand that I need to take out some decent health insurance (inpatient only - basically 'catastrophe insurance'), given that I am not now eligible for Oz Medicare unless I return to live in Oz (which I have no intention of doing).

 

But I'm disinclined to be hustled in to some deal that involves paying for things I don't need (outpatient - which I can cover myself) along with less than reliable outcomes when claims are made.

How does Oz Medicare cover you if your living in Thailand? 

[mokwit]

11 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

How does Oz Medicare cover you if your living in Thailand? 

Everybody thinks they will be well enough to fly back for treatment. It doesn't always happen like that.

Edited December 26, 2019 by mokwit

[Alice Jone]

14 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Would help to know her health history and age as from that I could advise whether worth trying with another insurer or not 

 

If not then the only option  is to change visa type. Options:

 

(1) O visa either obtained in the region or converted from a visa exempt entry in country. There are many recent threads describing how to do this. Once obtained do a one year extension of stay for retirement. O visa extensions do not currently require insurance.

 

(2) Thai Elite visa. 5 years for 500,000 baht or 1 million for 20 years. Other than this fee, no financial requirement and no insurance requirement.

 

(3) Spend only part of the year here using Multi entry tourist visa or sequential single entry TVs. Rest of the time elsewhere.

 

 

Many thanks, Sheryl. She even has not known the exact reason. She declares having mild fatty lever, Hepatitis B (she did not actually have to declare it because she had Hepatitis B since her childhood) and gallstones (actually she do not have any gallstones). She was hospitalized before due to fall. I am wondering it is the reason for rejection? Age: 58 years old.

It is interesting to know the followings because the majority here if not all are forced to buy this very strange and ridiculous Thai approved health insurance just for the renewal [the extension of OA]:

whether the insurers share their clients info themselves via central database (for eg. the TGIA portal database)?

will one insurer denial lead to all other follow suit because they usually ask whether your such application was rejected before?

Merry Charismas and Happy new year!

[Peter Denis]

31 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

How does Oz Medicare cover you if your living in Thailand? 

If he is eligible for OZ Medicare while in OZ, he only needs travel-insurance (that includes repatriation).

[Alice Jone]

16 hours ago, Pib said:

Probably her only option now is to switch to a Non-O visa which does not require medical insurance. 

 

She can get a Non-O by doing a few days trip to a nearby Thai embassy like in Laos....or 

Switch to Non-O in Laos
Hong long does it take to complete the process at the Thai embassy in Laos?
Is there medical check up requirement for prohibited disease (it is a must for OA)?
What is the validity date of Thai bank letter and date of update for the fixed deposit?

[DrJack54]

9 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

If he is eligible for OZ Medicare while in OZ, he only needs travel-insurance (that includes repatriation).

Perhaps it was just the company I dealt with, but they wouldn't allow "ongoing" travel insurance. I actually took out a policy many years ago. From memory it had a time limit and was not just as simple as start new policy once that one expired. May just of been that particular company.

[Sophon]

54 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

How does Oz Medicare cover you if your living in Thailand? 

He specifically said that he was not covered by Oz Medicare.

[Peter Denis]

32 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Perhaps it was just the company I dealt with, but they wouldn't allow "ongoing" travel insurance. I actually took out a policy many years ago. From memory it had a time limit and was not just as simple as start new policy once that one expired. May just of been that particular company.

Yes for sure, it was the particular travel-insurance company you dealt with.

When you buy travel-insurance in your home-country, most will offer specific-period policies as well as annual policies, that can be extended.  Typically when you need a travel-insurance longer than 2-3 months, it is cheaper to take an annual policy.  However such an annual policy typically is valid for a certain duration of your trip, after which you need to return to your home-country, before your next trip will be covered again.

My travel-insurance policy (less than 300 US $ annual premium) covers trips of 6 months, after which I need to return for 2 weeks to my home-country, before my next trip will be once again covered for 6 months.  Suits me fine as I visit my home-country once or twice a year.

When I stay longer than 6 months I cover the uninsured periods with on-the-fly travel-insurance.

FYI > My travel-insurance policy has UNLIMITED coverage of all accidents/illnesses I might encounter (with a very small deductable), and does include re-patriation at no cost, in case of accidents/illnesses that require treatment in my home-country.

 

[Sheryl]

4 hours ago, Alice Jone said:

Many thanks, Sheryl. She even has not known the exact reason. She declares having mild fatty lever, Hepatitis B (she did not actually have to declare it because she had Hepatitis B since her childhood) and gallstones (actually she do not have any gallstones). She was hospitalized before due to fall. I am wondering it is the reason for rejection? Age: 58 years old.

It is interesting to know the followings because the majority here if not all are forced to buy this very strange and ridiculous Thai approved health insurance just for the renewal [the extension of OA]:

whether the insurers share their clients info themselves via central database (for eg. the TGIA portal database)?

will one insurer denial lead to all other follow suit because they usually ask whether your such application was rejected before?

Merry Charismas and Happy new year!

From what you describe she should reapply to other insurers and this time stick solely to the questions asked and answer them clearly but don't give extraneous information.

 

Thai insurers tend not to apply much medical sophistication in reviewing  health history (understatement). I suspect they got the misimpression that yoyr friend has chronic Hepatitis B and liver damage.

 

Keep replies short and limited only to what is asked for the time period asked about.  If asked only about past 2 years or past 5 years answer only that.

 

Mild fatty liver would not normally need to be declared, it does not count as liver disease. (However most forms do ask height and weight and if she is obese that will be obvious to them. If extremely obese it is hard to get insured).

 

Only if the form asks if she EVER had hepatitis does she need to report the childhood illness. Are you/she certain it was Hepatitis B and not A? Most childhod hepatitis is A. If she really had Hep B in childhood (rare) then she ought to have had subsequent tests to rule out chronic infection and it would be important if having to report this to i e.g "Hepatitis B as a child. Fully recovered and blood tests  are negative for Hepatitis B antigen, my liver function is normal". But make sure first re A or B. There is no such issue with A. 

 

Re gallstones I do not understand why she reported them if she does not have them?

 

At her age  there are  5 possible sources for Immigration approved insurance that guarantee lifetime renewal:

 

AETNA

Bangkok Insurance (started just this month) 

Pacific Cross

Thai Vivat

Viriyah

 

And there is a another that guarantees renewal to age 90, April Thailand. (They do not show on the list but as they are underwtitten by LMG they can issue the certificate signed by LMG). Except for the age 90 bit April Thailand is the best value of these in my opinion.

 

I am not sure but it is possible LUMA is also underwritten by one of the companies on the list. If so they may also be an option and they also guarantee lifetime renewal.

 

Whichever of these she did not yet apply  to, she should apply now then compare responses and policy terms among those that accept her. Note that differences in cost increase with age. Under 60 not much difference but after 70 there starts to be a lot so she should ask for tables showing rates at older ages.

 

This whole process can be made vastly easier by going through a broker, for which there is no extra charge. Jenny at AA brokers is my broker abd especially good . [email protected]

 

[mfd101]

Re travel insurance helping to cover the gap: I had good experience of American Express travel insurance in Oz (can't remember their subsidiary name). Every year for about 10 years I paid AUD500 for total travel cover at all times in Oz (so every time I poked my nose outside my property in Canberra, even - say - driving to & from work, I was covered at a level I had chosen) . It also covered o/s travel.

 

I never had a claim until 2013 or 14 when I was living in BKK while we waited for my b/f's residency in Oz to come thru. Had a health incident which involved multiple tests & 1 night in private hospital in BKK. Cost was, from memory, around AUD5K. We were heading to Oz shortly after so I claimed once there. The company queried it & asked to see the docos of my hospitalization, which I had. All OK & they coughed up.

[mfd101]

Re Medicare cover: Yes, no coverage o/s, but I've only just run out of cover WITHIN Oz after 4 years away (with only 1 short visit of a few days in that time). If I were to live in Oz again, Medicare cover would be reestablished after (I think) 6 months.

 

I've also just run out of 'Resident for Tax Purposes' status, which means instead of getting around $1K refund from the ATO for 18/19 financial year, I now owe them $6400 by March. Oh well, there goes the new iMac my b/f was going to buy me for Xmas ...

Edited December 26, 2019 by mfd101

[Pib]

6 hours ago, Alice Jone said:

Switch to Non-O in Laos
Hong long does it take to complete the process at the Thai embassy in Laos?
Is there medical check up requirement for prohibited disease (it is a must for OA)?
What is the validity date of Thai bank letter and date of update for the fixed deposit?

 

 

Thai Consulate Savannakhet Laos.   

4 Steps to Get Visa at Savannakhet.  No appt required.  Apply in the morning; pick up visa next day

http://www.thaiembassy.org/savannakhet/th/services/108310-4-Steps-to-Apply-for-Thai-Visa.html

OA Visa Requirements at Savannakhet

http://www.thaiembassy.org/savannakhet/th/services/9736/106949-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"O"-(For-the-purpose.html

 

 

Thai Embassy Vientiane Laos Main Page...Look Under Visa Types for info on individual visas...Must Book an Appt at Vientanne.  Apply in the morning; pickup visa next day.

https://thaivisavientiane.com/

 

A ThaiVisa thread talking some folks over 50 trying to get a OA Visa and Non O Visa at Vientiane.   Seem to be pretty tight on requiring very fresh documents such as bank statement.  Savannakhet is probably a easier and better choice to apply for your Non O visa.

 

 

 

 

[alanrchase]

It would be nice if the government introduced an option to "buy in" to the Thai system. Say an initial fee of 40,000 baht and a fee of 10,000 every extension.