UK election result 'blew away' argument for second Brexit vote: Labour's Starmer

[jayboy]

9 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

The UK pound is a fiat currency. You could not stop Scotland using the pound if it so wishes. Please google fiat currency. 

Stop with the Daily Mein Kampf parroting of what Scotland can or cannot do.

For those of us who understand such stuff you simply make yourself look foolish.

 

Scotland as an independent country would be able to use Sterling.But it would have to accept monetary policy determined by the Bank of England, for example the setting of interest rates.It would have to accept the supervision of the Bank of England as well.Furthermore Scotland would have to absorb the negative effects of Brexit.Doesn't sound much like independence to me.It would however be marginally better than joining the Euro - assuming the EC allowed Scotland in before restructuring its deficit financing more to EC requirements.

[Rookiescot]

Just now, jayboy said:

Of course there's no legal commitment:it was just the clear understanding between all interested parties - far more than off the cuff remarks.But I could produce a hundred references and you would dismiss them all with some puerile gesture.

 

Nevertheless given the progress of the SNP and the prospect of further gains in 2021, I certainly don't expect that understanding to be honoured on the SNP side.Indeed in the new Westminster Parliament the Scottish MPs have taken the Referendum issue up with a vengeance.Nothing will happen quickly but they expect to wear the Government down.Perhaps they will succeed.

 

Incidentally one area - among many - where you are hopelessly ignorant is your assumption that English nationalists want to deny Scottish independence.They don't at all: they want to get rid of Scotland as soon as possible.The people who are sad are the believers in the United KIngdom (including hundreds of thousands of Scots) who feel the Union has served the various nations well.If Scottish independence ever happens these people won't be angry or vengeful: they will wish Scotland well as a key neighbour tied irrevocably by blood, culture and history.

 

 

Go ahead and produce them then. I suspect each and every one of them is from a pro union source. You were starting to sound a lot like Ruth Davidson. Whatever happened to her btw?

 

The only people who think there is some kind of commitment or understanding are people who want to deny Scotland its democratic right.

 

Im so glad you have finally come to terms with the fact there is no legally binding reason why Scotland can not have another referendum.

Just look at the journey you have taken. A bit more work and you will be championing for independence ????

[Rookiescot]

Just now, jayboy said:

Scotland as an independent country would be able to use Sterling.But it would have to accept monetary policy determined by the Bank of England, for example the setting of interest rates.It would have to accept the supervision of the Bank of England as well.Furthermore Scotland would have to absorb the negative effects of Brexit.Doesn't sound much like independence to me.It would however be marginally better than joining the Euro - assuming the EC allowed Scotland in before restructuring its deficit financing more to EC requirements.

Oh we at last find something to agree upon.

If Scotland carried on using the pound outside of a currency union then what you say is absolutely true. We would have to deal with interest rates and the like being set to suit England. Which is exactly the same scenario we are in while within the union. Actually when I say England what I mean is the City of London financial area. The square mile if you will.

 

Joining or not joining the Euro is an argument for after independence. Personally would rather see Scotland start and retain its own currency. That way we are beholding to no-one.

 

As for debt and deficit. Scotland has none. Any debt we choose to take from Westminster will be subject to negotiations. Basically play nice or get stuffed.   

[RuamRudy]

2 hours ago, kingdong said:

I addressed a specific point,remember your last election,when Scotland thought they could leave and still retain sterling (and obviously all their perks and subsidies like free prescriptions and education)when it was pointed out this was not to be the result was stay. Well  must dash,have got to go to the chemist and pick up ( and pay)for my prescription.

You stated that Scotland's economy would probably be like that of Zimbabwe. Are you backtracking now and trying to obfuscate with juvenile ignorance to cover your inability to back up your words, or do you intend to explain the macro economic situation that will, in your words, probably lead to hyper inflation in Scotland? 

[kingdong]

5 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

Scotland may join, I am sure,

it would be political suicide for EU to refuse Scotland membership.

 

EU refusing Scotland membership I see as an absolutely impossible scenario

Don,t think it would even get to a vote,Spain would give it a veto in regard to their own circumstances.

[kingdong]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

You stated that Scotland's economy would probably be like that of Zimbabwe. Are you backtracking now and trying to obfuscate with juvenile ignorance to cover your inability to back up your words, or do you intend to explain the macro economic situation that will, in your words, probably lead to hyper inflation in Scotland? 

 Scotland's a tiny little country who you seem to thinks it's a kak hot asset bit like Thailand's tats opinion of the los ,didn,t work for them by any chance did you?

[kingdong]

4 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

You stated that Scotland's economy would probably be like that of Zimbabwe. Are you backtracking now and trying to obfuscate with juvenile ignorance to cover your inability to back up your words, or do you intend to explain the macro economic situation that will, in your words, probably lead to hyper inflation in Scotland? 

Calm yourself dear.

[melvinmelvin]

45 minutes ago, kingdong said:

Don,t think it would even get to a vote,Spain would give it a veto in regard to their own circumstances.

 

forget it, Spain would be crushed to pieces if they upheld a veto against Scotland,

the whole of EU would fall on Spain,

 

refusing Scotland entry would be the end of EU

[CG1 Blue]

2 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

refusing Scotland entry would be the end of EU

Why? Genuine question 

[CG1 Blue]

17 hours ago, samran said:

Clearly them leaving a union is fine, but when you want to leave their union, well, that's unacceptable. Thank god for their benevolent paternalism!

You've kind of supported the argument from Brexiteers in England there. I.e., why do some Scots object to leaving the EU but want to leave the 300+ year old union with it's closest neighbour and biggest trading partner? 

[JonnyF]

4 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

You've kind of supported the argument from Brexiteers in England there. I.e., why do some Scots object to leaving the EU but want to leave the 300+ year old union with it's closest neighbour and biggest trading partner? 

It's simple. They'd rather be ruled by Brussels than Westminster. If they wanted true independence they'd be wanting to leave the UK but not join the EU.

Edited January 10, 2020 by JonnyF

[RuamRudy]

6 hours ago, kingdong said:

 Scotland's a tiny little country who you seem to thinks it's a kak hot asset bit like Thailand's tats opinion of the los ,didn,t work for them by any chance did you?

To be honest, I am not sure that I understand exactly what you are trying to say. Are you saying that your are way out of your depth and haven't the faintest clue about that which you are writing? If that is, indeed, your point, I agree wholeheartedly. 

[kingdong]

26 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

To be honest, I am not sure that I understand 

I,m sure you don,t

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

It's simple. They'd rather be ruled by Brussels than Westminster. If they wanted true independence they'd be wanting to leave the UK but not join the EU.

If you had the slightest understanding of the massive retention of power in Westminster, you would realise just how naive your statement was. 

If your already know of the split between reserved and devolved matters, shame on you for repeating a lie. 

[RuamRudy]

6 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

You've kind of supported the argument from Brexiteers in England there. I.e., why do some Scots object to leaving the EU but want to leave the 300+ year old union with it's closest neighbour and biggest trading partner? 

Could it possibly be that Scots increasingly recognise that one of the unions is detrimental to our country's best interests, whereas the other has more positives to offer? 

[samran]

18 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Could it possibly be that Scots increasingly recognise that one of the unions is detrimental to our country's best interests, whereas the other has more positives to offer? 

And that is putting it politely...

[samran]

6 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

You've kind of supported the argument from Brexiteers in England there. I.e., why do some Scots object to leaving the EU but want to leave the 300+ year old union with it's closest neighbour and biggest trading partner? 

Cause they are viewing the decision to leave the EU through the prism of being Scots, and they don’t like the consequence decision of what is essentially an English decision foisted upon them.

 

Most unions are forged in compromise. There hasn’t been any seen here...

[vogie]

37 minutes ago, samran said:

Cause they are viewing the decision to leave the EU through the prism of being Scots, and they don’t like the consequence decision of what is essentially an English decision foisted upon them.

 

Most unions are forged in compromise. There hasn’t been any seen here...

I think where your arguement falls flat on its face is that the Scots don't want to break up the Union, only the SNP wish this to happen. So in all your future posts it would be wise to refer to the people who actually want to break the Union up as the SNP and not the Scots.

 

[samran]

44 minutes ago, vogie said:

I think where your arguement falls flat on its face is that the Scots don't want to break up the Union, only the SNP wish this to happen. So in all your future posts it would be wise to refer to the people who actually want to break the Union up as the SNP and not the Scots.

 

Not sure I agree. An issue like this crosses party lines.
 

A bit like your historically Labour voting northerners supporting Boris. 

 

Next you’ll be telling me that all normally unionist Protestants in Northern Ireland agree with brexit... and that none of them are applying in large numbers for Irish passports! 

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, samran said:

Not sure I agree. An issue like this crosses party lines.
 

A bit like your historically Labour voting northerners supporting Boris. 

 

Next you’ll be telling me that all normally unionist Protestants in Northern Ireland agree with brexit... and that none of them are applying in large numbers for Irish passports! 

Next you’ll be telling me that all normally unionist Protestants in Northern Ireland agree with brexit... and that none of them are applying in large numbers for Irish passports! 

 

I will not be deflecting by telling you anything about NI.

 

Northern Labour voters moved to the Tory party for the simple reason that they were offering what they voted for, as opposed to Labour that were offering anything but. The Lab MPs that were doing everything possible to thwart what their constituants had voted for got shown what parliamentary sovereignty is really about and a good majority quite rightly lost their seats in our last General Election/Referendum.

But once we have left the EU and all the dust has settled I think you will find even more Scots (that are in the majority) wanting to remain within our Union. 

But the SNP supporters are a bit like Ian Blackford, they are all on a loop and can only play one tune.

 

 

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

I think where your arguement falls flat on its face is that the Scots don't want to break up the Union, only the SNP wish this to happen. So in all your future posts it would be wise to refer to the people who actually want to break the Union up as the SNP and not the Scots.

 

So what do we call the 37% of Brits who voted to remove us from the EU? 

[samran]

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

So what do we call the 37% of Brits who voted to remove us from the EU? 

English?

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

So what do we call the 37% of Brits who voted to remove us from the EU? 

Most citizens of the UK don't have a problem with democracy, why would the SNP.

[melvinmelvin]

10 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Why? Genuine question 

 

that is pretty much what EU is about nowadays, bringing small and big in Europe into the family fold,

lately, several small have received focus, Yogoslavia leftovers, islands in  the med. for example

 

saying yes to "all" and sundry and no to Scotland ain't gonna sell politically at all

 

[nauseus]

On 1/7/2020 at 3:48 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Did the UK only pay lots of money to the EU? Or did they also receive lots of money from the EU?

That's what many Brexiters will learn the hard way sooner or later. The EU paid for lots of things within the UK. Will Boris and his government continue with all those investments within the UK?

We only paid in except in 1975, which, amazingly enough, was the year of the first referendum. How about that?

 

We have never received "lots of money" from the EU. What is sent back is effectively our own money anyway, as we have been the second highest net contributor. Hard way my tut.

[nauseus]

On 1/7/2020 at 8:27 PM, jayboy said:

I can assure you the currency issue is a matter of major concern among financially literate SNP supporters, of which I can see you are not one.

 

 

I don't think there are many anyway.

[nauseus]

On 1/7/2020 at 9:09 PM, CG1 Blue said:

If Scotland voted to leave the UK, I don't think it would be up to the people in Scotland whether they want to keep using the GBP. I believe that decision would be for the UK government to make. 

I'd like to think the UK would be reasonable and allow an independent Scotland to keep using GBP, at least for a transition period. But during that period you would have the UK dictating fiscal policy, so it would be a currency union. 

I don't think that the EU would allow that, eh?

[nauseus]

On 1/7/2020 at 11:06 PM, Rookiescot said:

Oh dear god. Its a fiat currency. Go google it.

It's a fiat currency as is any other paper money but is controlled by the Bank of England, which also regulates and allows the issue of banknotes by commercial banks in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

[nauseus]

On 1/8/2020 at 10:07 AM, RuamRudy said:

How do you suppose they might stop Scotland from using the UK pound? Will rUK currency bailiffs go into every Scottish home and confiscate any unauthorised notes? 

You can use them but you won't control them. So, if you use them then forget joining the EU.

 

[nauseus]

On 1/8/2020 at 11:13 AM, samran said:

The Rule Britannia mentality leads them their I guess.

 

Funny reading the objections from some of the brexiters to the continued use of sterling in Scotland.

 

These are the same people promising a unicorn for everyone: amongst other fairytale promises - a  substantive FTAs negotiated and concluded with the EU in the next 11 months and a borderless island of Ireland with customs checks done virtually by yet to be invented technology.

 

But yet when it comes to the not unheard of practice of a sovereign state using someone else’s currency, all of a sudden it is way too hard...

Too hard if you want to hook up with the EU anyway.