UK Pensions and related info

[quake]

On 12/14/2020 at 6:22 PM, rimmae2 said:

Some time ago I paid additional voluntary contributions. However, these are are still not reflected when I login on Government Gateway.

 

Is there any way to contact the relevant Department for confirmation that the money has been received? Telephone contact is for people who are retiring in the near future, which does not apply. 

it takes about 7 months before i can see it on my gateway account.

[nong38]

A note for the diary, 3rd March is UK Budget Day. Allowances will see a small increase and with the current virus situation I dont see there will be much else happening that will affect overseas parties. Until the time when the UK HMG thinks that things are improving on the virus front tax rises will be kept to a minimum. If I were driving in the UK I would be worried though not with the rise fuel prices but what new scams they will dream up for drivers to cough up.

[UKresonant]

11 hours ago, nong38 said:

A note for the diary, 3rd March is UK Budget Day. Allowances will see a small increase and with the current virus situation I dont see there will be much else happening that will affect overseas parties. Until the time when the UK HMG thinks that things are improving on the virus front tax rises will be kept to a minimum. If I were driving in the UK I would be worried though not with the rise fuel prices but what new scams they will dream up for drivers to cough up.

 

There appears to be a lot of negative rumors  about, outwith income  tax and VAT subjects...

e.g. Capital Gains Tax reform...a few ideas I've seen;...

Aligning the CGT rates with income tax (would not worry us in it's self)

Freeing the annual allowance (not much of a problem)

Reducing the CGT allowance from the current £12300.

If 10k not much short term effect

If £6k or lower it may start causing problems, as we look on it the allowance as avoiding the need do paper, but for those that use the CGT allowance as a planned supplement of income by disposing of a few long held, low yield assets to supplement their income in retirement, could have the same effect a putting income tax up as well, though for a much smaller group. 

 

But the Lab. party had a lot of capital Taxes in there last election proposals, one expert I saw talking about the proposals, said 70% of the transactions only happened up to the CGT allowance, as it was people playing with shares, advisers re-balancing  portfolios etc. that did not want tax complications. So the transactions would abruptly halt and provide zero tax.

 

We will soon see...????

[theoldgit]

A MP raised the issue of frozen pensions at Prime Ministers Questions this afternoon, 27 Jan, BJ appeared to be sympathetic and when asked if he would meet with representatives from the frozen pensions group, he said that he would arrange for the appropriate Minister to meet them.

 

I think we can be sure that’s as far as it will go and I doubt if we will hear any more, but good for the MP for at least getting the question in.

[sandyf]

10 hours ago, theoldgit said:

A MP raised the issue of frozen pensions at Prime Ministers Questions this afternoon, 27 Jan, BJ appeared to be sympathetic and when asked if he would meet with representatives from the frozen pensions group, he said that he would arrange for the appropriate Minister to meet them.

 

I think we can be sure that’s as far as it will go and I doubt if we will hear any more, but good for the MP for at least getting the question in.

I saw that and wouldn't say he was sympathetic, made no real comment and used an easy escape route, would agree not worth holding your breath.

 

Peter Dowd  

(Bootle) (Lab) [V]

 

  My grand- mother received a war widow’s pension for 67 years. My mother received one for 49 years. Two of my nephews are veterans, and a veterans’ network operates in my constituency. They would agree that a pension should be paid at UK rates, wherever a veteran, or any pensioner, lives in the world. When will 96-year-old Anne Puckridge, a world war two veteran who lives in Canada, and 60,000 other veterans who served their country courageously and live abroad, stop being treated as second-class veterans and get the full pension they deserve? Will the Prime Minister commit to ending that injustice, and agree to meet representatives from the End Frozen Pensions campaign? As a start, that is the very least that a British Prime Minister could do for Britain’s greatest generation. (911446)

The Prime Minister 

 

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising that issue. I have come across this problem before, but the case he describes is obviously acute and I will ensure that he gets the meeting he desires with the relevant Minister.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2021-01-27/debates/86061134-27CE-4595-8B6A-15EA751552A1/Engagements

 

Ian Blackford initiated a debate in the house back in 2016 when the same issue was voiced.

 

Ian Blackford

"Lastly, there is former college lecturer Anne Puckridge, now 91. She lived and worked in the UK all her working life, paying mandatory national insurance contributions throughout. In 2002, aged 77, she finally retired and decided to move to Canada to be with her daughter and grandchildren, who had moved to Calgary. Fourteen years on, Anne, who served as an intelligence officer in the Women’s Royal Naval Service in the second world war, is struggling to live on a frozen pension of £75.50 a week."

 

Notable comments in the debate were:-

 

Sir Peter Bottomley
The House and the Minister will recall that each year a statutory instrument, or equivalent legislation, is brought before the House to continue the policy, so none of us can say we are blameless. The fact that a small minority of us have so far been voting against what the Government propose to Parliament is our fault for not recruiting more people. The best people to recruit would be the Chancellor and the Prime Minister, and then the Ministers at the Department for Work and Pensions who have to face up for the Government and will be able to pass the responsibility on to those who carry the responsibility—the most senior Ministers in Government.

 

And from the government

 

Mr Vara
I am grateful to both hon. Members for clarifying that point. I was simply pointing out an inconsistency on the Order Paper. For the sake of good order, I wanted to make clear that although yearly decisions have been taken by the Government, they are consistent with the policy undertaken by successive Governments from both sides of the House.

The UK state pension is exportable worldwide, regardless of recipients’ countries of residence or nationality. Successive Governments have taken the view that all those who have worked in the UK and built up an entitlement to state pension should be able to receive it. We have no plans to change this arrangement. However, the state pension is only increased, or uprated, each year where the recipient is resident in the European Economic Area or a country with which the UK has a reciprocal agreement that allows for uprating.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/debates/GetDebateAsText/16051148000001

 

Although the issue comes before parliament every year, the government do not allow time for any debate other than proposed changes to the social security benefits, there is no political will to change current legislation on frozen pensions. The government headed off a potential debate in making special arrangements for those in the EU following brexit.

[bert bloggs]

As to us getting our frozen pensions upgraded,there are 2 hopes and we all know what they are

[billd766]

On 1/27/2021 at 9:36 PM, theoldgit said:

A MP raised the issue of frozen pensions at Prime Ministers Questions this afternoon, 27 Jan, BJ appeared to be sympathetic and when asked if he would meet with representatives from the frozen pensions group, he said that he would arrange for the appropriate Minister to meet them.

 

I think we can be sure that’s as far as it will go and I doubt if we will hear any more, but good for the MP for at least getting the question in.

I got an email this morning with a link to an Daily Telegraph article of 39th January 2021 which may be of interest to us frozen pensioners.

 

I opened the link which gave me the content but I was unable to copy and paste the format.

 

Here is the link which you can get to the content and expand the PDF file.

 

https://pensionjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/Canadian-Pensions-Article.pdf

 

It has cheered up my Monday morning a bit.

[maxcorrigan]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

I got an email this morning with a link to an Daily Telegraph article of 39th January 2021 which may be of interest to us frozen pensioners.

 

I opened the link which gave me the content but I was unable to copy and paste the format.

 

Here is the link which you can get to the content and expand the PDF file.

 

https://pensionjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/Canadian-Pensions-Article.pdf

 

It has cheered up my Monday morning a bit.

Certainly sounds slightly promising but if Canada does pull it off it will be Canadian UK pensioners who will get it, the rest of us i bet will be ignored, thanks Canada for at least embarrassing the thieving mobs of all colours in government that have continually carried on/ignored this 70 odd year old theft, pity more countries don't do the same, one thing i liked Corbyn for, he thought frozen pensions was a disgusting state of affairs, whether he would have done anything about it though if in power is thankfully unknown

[sandyf]

On 2/1/2021 at 8:11 AM, billd766 said:

I got an email this morning with a link to an Daily Telegraph article of 39th January 2021 which may be of interest to us frozen pensioners.

 

I opened the link which gave me the content but I was unable to copy and paste the format.

 

Here is the link which you can get to the content and expand the PDF file.

 

https://pensionjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/Canadian-Pensions-Article.pdf

 

It has cheered up my Monday morning a bit.

All we can do is live in hope Bill. The problem with Canada is the UK government has a get out of jail card in the fact that a reciprocal agreement is already in place. At the time the reciprocal agreement was put in place Canadian pensions could not be exported so the pension arrangement was omitted. That has now changed and the agreement could be amended.

Slightly different to the situation in most countries where there is no agreement to start with.

[sandyf]

22 hours ago, maxcorrigan said:

Certainly sounds slightly promising but if Canada does pull it off it will be Canadian UK pensioners who will get it, the rest of us i bet will be ignored, thanks Canada for at least embarrassing the thieving mobs of all colours in government that have continually carried on/ignored this 70 odd year old theft, pity more countries don't do the same, one thing i liked Corbyn for, he thought frozen pensions was a disgusting state of affairs, whether he would have done anything about it though if in power is thankfully unknown

There is no political will on this issue, certainly not among those that have any say.

On the 13th May last year there was an EDM tabled in the House and it was only signed by 21 MPs, 12 of whom were from the SNP, of the other 9, 4 were devolved nations and 5 from England.

Sad state of affairs when so little attention is paid to blatant discrimination.

https://edm.parliament.uk/early-day-motion/56968/uk-veterans-and-frozen-pensions

[najomtiensun]

At best one would have thought ex-servicemen might be in with a 'fighting' chance as for the rest and Thailand forget it.  Some tabloid-friendly case studies of vets living in Thailand in impoverished means might help. I seem to remember the gurkhas had big problems for many years getting HMG to recognise their sacrifices and duty. 

[nong38]

It seems like there has been in the last week some movement from Canada about the frozen pension issue and that a meeting might take place shortly between the UK government and the Canadian government with the possibility of looking at a reciprocal agreement. That if it came to pass would only be between the two but it might then provoke others to also seek the same, with individual countries making it not all inclusive but another step down the road.

It also occurs to me that since this virus appeared there must have been a fair number of UK pensioners who got caught in Thailand and could return and if they were unlucky got their pensions frozen until they can return to the UK  and that might not be until next year as  far as I know vaccination has not started here yet and you can bet ex-pats will be behind the locals which I understand but you wont get back in the UK until at least you can prove you have the jabs and any other restrictions that appear in the meantime like sitting in a hotel room waiting to see if you test positive.

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, nong38 said:

It seems like there has been in the last week some movement from Canada about the frozen pension issue and that a meeting might take place shortly between the UK government and the Canadian government with the possibility of looking at a reciprocal agreement. That if it came to pass would only be between the two but it might then provoke others to also seek the same, with individual countries making it not all inclusive but another step down the road.

It also occurs to me that since this virus appeared there must have been a fair number of UK pensioners who got caught in Thailand and could return and if they were unlucky got their pensions frozen until they can return to the UK  and that might not be until next year as  far as I know vaccination has not started here yet and you can bet ex-pats will be behind the locals which I understand but you wont get back in the UK until at least you can prove you have the jabs and any other restrictions that appear in the meantime like sitting in a hotel room waiting to see if you test positive.

Couple of points there,

"the possibility of looking at a reciprocal agreement."  - there is already a reciprocal agreement in place, if anything happens with the Canadians every chance it will be an amendment to include pensions in the existing agreement rather than a new one.

 

"but you wont get back in the UK until at least you can prove you have the jabs"  -  that is not true, entry to the UK for UK nationals cannot be prevented on the basis of vaccination. Could be travel problems but that is a separate issue, only time will clarify.

[billzant]

SandyF said "All we can do is live in hope Bill. The problem with Canada is the UK government has a get out of jail card in the fact that a reciprocal agreement is already in place. At the time the reciprocal agreement was put in place Canadian pensions could not be exported so the pension arrangement was omitted. That has now changed and the agreement could be amended.

Slightly different to the situation in most countries where there is no agreement to start with."

As you say there is already a reciprocal agreement in place. I found this cutting on a facebook page

 

 

I believe the Canadian givernment provide some support for residents with money problems ie frozen pensioners. So they are tryng to save money.

Not an approach that is going to benefit most of us suffering the injustice. 

 

[maxcorrigan]

On 2/2/2021 at 8:34 AM, sandyf said:

There is no political will on this issue, certainly not among those that have any say.

On the 13th May last year there was an EDM tabled in the House and it was only signed by 21 MPs, 12 of whom were from the SNP, of the other 9, 4 were devolved nations and 5 from England.

Sad state of affairs when so little attention is paid to blatant discrimination.

https://edm.parliament.uk/early-day-motion/56968/uk-veterans-and-frozen-pensions

Yes true no political will, when i have seen anything in the UK press about frozen pensions nearly all the comments mainly women are in complete agreement that we should not get any increases at all, i even feel they think we should not even get a pension living abroad just my opinion of course, they probably don't know or care that some pensioners do get the increases depending on where they choose to retire, until the general public come out on our side the government will not be persuaded to correct this injustice/thievery and since it is rarely brought up in the MSM it's not likely to change sadly!

[PGSan]

On 5/12/2020 at 9:55 AM, bkk6060 said:

UK pensions sure seem very low.

Around 1000 US a month?

Geez terrible, how can anyone live on that? 

I am not sure which UK pension you are referring to here.  Or what you are comparing it with: which country and with what details of employments and investments made? 

[PGSan]

On 5/12/2020 at 10:03 AM, BritManToo said:

Maximum is 620GBP/month ......... $750US

That could be a misleading figure, but it is correct for the level of the ‘state pension that is avalable to everyone’.

 

It does not follow directly from this that typical UK pensioners are comparatively badly treated.

 

Note also that typical UK wages/salaries are similarly low in certain comparison with some ‘western countries’. 

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, PGSan said:

I am not sure which UK pension you are referring to here.  Or what you are comparing it with: which country and with what details of employments and investments made? 

This is a thread about the UK state pension derived from National Insurance payments.

Nothing else.

[OJAS]

On 2/1/2021 at 9:27 AM, maxcorrigan said:

one thing i liked Corbyn for, he thought frozen pensions was a disgusting state of affairs, whether he would have done anything about it though if in power is thankfully unknown

 

Sir Humphrey would almost certainly have made it abundantly clear at their first meeting together that under no circumstances was he to raise this matter again during his occupancy of 10 Downing Street.☹️

Edited February 15, 2021 by OJAS

[keithsimmonds]

What do you want to do about it (Frozen Pensions)...i am not due to get my State Pension till next year after 45years of contributions plus another 3 years that were n,t full....so i am due so to speak.

I would be willing to protest outside the appropriate building/office in Bangkok...and i believe (rightly or wrongly) that the coverage from in excess of a 1000 British Pensioners gathered in once place would get world wide coverage. Lets face it what,s to lose? The Thai Banks are happily locking away more 800 million baht of our money every year in retirement extensions (with the Thai Governments blessings) and any increase in our Pensions is only going to be spent here...we are not a drain on the National Health service in the UK or clogging up buses with our free ride...or clogging up all pharmacies while getting our free prescriptions.....everyone's a winner imho.

So anyone want to protest....count me in.

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

This is a thread about the UK state pension derived from National Insurance payments.

Nothing else.

No one can say what the max payments are, my state pension is made up of 5 different components.

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, keithsimmonds said:

I would be willing to protest outside the appropriate building/office in Bangkok...

Appreciate the sentiment but nobody in Thailand has any say on the matter.

The legislation that deals with the uprating of pensions is embedded in the Social Security Act. On the surface it should be a relative straight forward move to extract the legislation from said act to become separate domestic law. Unfortunately this would mean amendments to all current agreements to reflect the change and there is no will to interfere with what is perceived as a can of worms. You have to remember those that would be tasked with sorting things out have nothing to gain, not many votes in it and their state pension is no more than petty cash..

[keithsimmonds]

19 hours ago, sandyf said:

Appreciate the sentiment but nobody in Thailand has any say on the matter.

The legislation that deals with the uprating of pensions is embedded in the Social Security Act. On the surface it should be a relative straight forward move to extract the legislation from said act to become separate domestic law. Unfortunately this would mean amendments to all current agreements to reflect the change and there is no will to interfere with what is perceived as a can of worms. You have to remember those that would be tasked with sorting things out have nothing to gain, not many votes in it and their state pension is no more than petty cash..

I know Thailand does n,t have any say in the matter but there are probably just as many Thai,s in the UK as what there are Brits here....both Countries just need a little ...nudge in the same direction.imho.

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, keithsimmonds said:

I know Thailand does n,t have any say in the matter but there are probably just as many Thai,s in the UK as what there are Brits here....both Countries just need a little ...nudge in the same direction.imho.

There is more chance of the pigs taking off. The government said about 40 years ago there would be no more social security reciprocal agreements, one of the few things they have actually adhered to.

Pensions should not be lumped in with social security benefits and successive governments have failed to address the issue. Doubt it will be resolved in my lifetime.

[keithsimmonds]

Yeah maybe so  ("pigs might fly") but there was a wall once that divided Germany..Women never had a vote etc etc... If the "Will" is there a large number of properly face masked Brits all gathered peacefully in one place, questions will be asked....and both incumbent PMs will be more than happy to claim new "ties" with each other,just a matter of if anyone can be bothered. Relying on 2 MPs to stand up every year in a near empty HOC just isn,t going to cut it.imho

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, keithsimmonds said:

Yeah maybe so  ("pigs might fly") but there was a wall once that divided Germany..Women never had a vote etc etc... If the "Will" is there a large number of properly face masked Brits all gathered peacefully in one place, questions will be asked....and both incumbent PMs will be more than happy to claim new "ties" with each other,just a matter of if anyone can be bothered. Relying on 2 MPs to stand up every year in a near empty HOC just isn,t going to cut it.imho

There is no disputing your logic, the WASPIES proved that, but you have to note the difference, they were located in the UK.

If you could get hundreds of expats in front of the UK TV cameras every day then something may be said, in the meantime, 'out of sight, out of mind'.

 

Even after an extremely high profile campaign they still lost

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-54158832

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_Against_State_Pension_Inequality

Edited February 17, 2021 by sandyf

[keithsimmonds]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

There is no disputing your logic, the WASPIES proved that, but you have to note the difference, they were located in the UK.

If you could get hundreds of expats in front of the UK TV cameras every day then something may be said, in the meantime, 'out of sight, out of mind'.

 

Even after an extremely high profile campaign they still lost

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-54158832

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_Against_State_Pension_Inequality

Sorry i have to disagree with you...if a Brit or even 2 Brits attack someone or someone attack's them or a couple of backpackers go missing...it,s headlines news back in the UK for either good or bad reasons......Hundreds of white faced wrinkly (not all i hasten to add)) Brits gathered in one area is going to cause a stir and questions will be asked....and our case/cases for upgrading Our pension is more than valid.

[keithsimmonds]

Just now, keithsimmonds said:

Sorry i have to disagree with you...if a Brit or even 2 Brits attack someone or someone attack's them or a couple of backpackers go missing...it,s headlines news back in the UK for either good or bad reasons......Hundreds of white faced wrinkly (not all i hasten to add)) Brits gathered in one area is going to cause a stir and questions will be asked....and our case/cases for upgrading Our pension is more than valid.

Added to the above... a protest in the UK is just that another protest....there is at least one every week...somewhere.

[UKresonant]

14 hours ago, sandyf said:

There is no disputing your logic, the WASPIES proved that, but you have to note the difference, they were located in the UK.

If you could get hundreds of expats in front of the UK TV cameras every day then something may be said, in the meantime, 'out of sight, out of mind'.

 

Even after an extremely high profile campaign they still lost

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-54158832

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_Against_State_Pension_Inequality

 

Well I'm in the UK, at least until the son is finished with Secondary School!

I would think any previous resident /UK person that still has Voting rights would have a little influence.

I think the  state pensions is a mutual system that you should contribute to and and receive some stability from.

I think especially using the Thailand situation, perhaps they originally thinking that being in Thailand is like becoming resident in the UK or other similar countries,  except for a Very small minority it is not. As the vast majority have only a temporary stay permission which optimistically will be continued (have to become more optimistic every year from reading some posts in the other section ???? ). Saying they need an agreement with Thailand to pay British people indexing seems absolutely bizarre in context! When I was assisting someone (Thai) opening a sterling account on a little island next to the UK, they actually asked for a copy of her Council Tax Letter ????. That is at least part of the problem with the indexation, localised outlook and thinking (certainly appears to be the case in Thailand as well). 

I (pay?tbc) paid my NI to the UK gov, it is NOTHING to do with Thailand, as I will never established there, I'll only be visiting the wife!

The only damage we may be doing by being in  Thailand is a bit of economy leakage on VAT. VAT is not on everything so what are we loosing 6-8%, so take 4% off if the pension is going overseas, you would stand still for a couple of years, but it then would be indexed. Politicians may respond better if there is a balancing revenue,  ( would argue that even if in Thailand, a good proportion shall still be spent on commitments in UK). More effective then to argue how ridiculous the no indexing situation is?

I suppose If we just grumble, the cause will just remain a cause, and not a solution.. 

 

Still 9 years to get it after being put back twice ????

After qualifying for the full state pension in 2010 and then qualifying again in 2015, and having now paid 40 years + I just need another 6 years contributions to get the full new state pension ????

 

Edited February 17, 2021 by UKresonant

[sandyf]

13 hours ago, keithsimmonds said:

Sorry i have to disagree with you...if a Brit or even 2 Brits attack someone or someone attack's them or a couple of backpackers go missing...it,s headlines news back in the UK for either good or bad reasons......Hundreds of white faced wrinkly (not all i hasten to add)) Brits gathered in one area is going to cause a stir and questions will be asked....and our case/cases for upgrading Our pension is more than valid.

You are not disagreeing with me, just the historical facts. Being in the news has been ineffective, if there is to be a solution it can only come from within.

From the latest briefing paper, which you should take the time to read in full.

 

"The All-Party Parliamentary Group on Frozen British Pensions published the report of its 2020 Inquiry in December. It called on the UK Government to “urgently review the ‘frozen’ pension policy given the evidence of destitution facing many UK pensioners overseas and the recent impacts of COVID-19.” It argued that the fact that the UK Government had reached agreement to maintain uprating or those living in the EU contradicted its previously stated position that it was not willing to enter into new reciprocal agreements. It questioned the justification for the policy – that the decision to move abroad is voluntary and that people are given information and advice on the impact on their State Pension of doing so."

 

"The Government has not made an assessment of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Frozen British Pensions 2020 inquiry or its findings. The UK State Pension is payable worldwide to those who meet the qualifying conditions. It is up-rated where there is a legal requirement to do so, for example, where recipients are living in countries where there is a reciprocal agreement that provides for up-rating. The Government has no plans to change the policy on up-rating UK State Pensions overseas; the policy is longstanding and has been supported by successive Governments for over 70 years. The Government understands that people move abroad for many reasons and that this can have an impact on their finances. However, the decision to move abroad remains a personal choice. Advice that the UK State Pension is not up-rated overseas except where there is a legal requirement has been provided to the public for many years. Information is provided in leaflets and on gov.uk.

It has “no plans for discussions with either Australia or Canada” on the issue."

http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01457/SN01457.pdf