Phuket Immigration re-confirms ‘embassy income verification’ letters not required after American expat given 30 days to leave Thailand

[johnc925]

I can tell you from personal experience that Phuket immigration will not accept 12 months bank statements proving deposits or any such information. I was completely refused by Phuket immigration to extend my retirement Visa within convect verification or to use it for marriage visa.

 

I deposit twice the amount required for retirement Visa and nearly three times the amount required for a marriage visa... "mai dai" is all we get.

 

I suspect it's a game where they want you to work with a Thai agent and pay extra services to have it done. None the less I have to leave the country at the end of January as well.

 

I have been losing my flare poor Thailand over the last couple of years and this is simply pushing more foreigners out the door.

[Redline]

12 hours ago, Roy Baht said:

Don't know if everyone read the full article. Seems like many haven't. Phuket Immigration has said:

 

“As for this [American] man, and anyone else who has had this problem, please come back to the Phuket Immigration Office so we can resolve this.

“Under this type of visa, all that is required to prove your income are bank statements and your bankbooks [plus copies of the relevant pages to file with the application]."

 

So all this guy has to do is go back to Phuket Immigration and show he has the money.

Not sure why so many people--including people who don't even live here--are getting so hysterical over it.  Patience and the ability to read are two basic requirements of living in Thailand. Not having those, it is indeed just as well that you left.

 

 

The process for marriage extension is a joke though.  Pictures of you and your wife on your bed, and in front of the house, immigration coming to your house to take pictures of you too, talking to your neighbors and copying their house book-most of this every year.  Stacks of copies every year that are tossed in the trash.  A couple more years I’m out too.  I can see one time, but not every year-intrusiveness 

[Russell17au]

It is very interesting that it appears that this American cannot produce the financials that are required by Thai Immigration. How was he going to produce the required financials for his income letter from the US Embassy? Was he going to give false financials to the US Embassy? Wasn't this the reason that the 3 Embassies refused to verify the income on the income letters.

[bkkatl]

15 hours ago, EricTh said:

A 400K would have been enough for his marriage visa which is actually a small amount for Americans.

 

I have seen an increase in the number of foreign students 'learning Thai' on education visa just to stay in Thailand.

 

Guess he will also join the queue.

What? 400,000 baht ($13,000.00) is a lot of money. Especially for those of us who came to teach and want to marry and get the marriage visa. As an American in my mid-thirties saving that amount of money and then not being able to use it is extremely difficult. I was a teacher in America as well and saving money with the cost of living, student debt etc is not easy. 

[Mr Smithy]

1 minute ago, Russell17au said:

It is very interesting that it appears that this American cannot produce the financials that are required by Thai Immigration. How was he going to produce the required financials for his income letter from the US Embassy? Was he going to give false financials to the US Embassy? Wasn't this the reason that the 3 Embassies refused to verify the income on the income letters.

Americans never had to evidence income to their embassy - They just swore an affidavit as did Australians - Only Brits were required to provide proof of income before the embassy would issue a letter.

[Boyblue]

i was at Krabi immigration at the beginning of January for a 60 day extension, which went without hitch as i am married to a Thai and have a 6 year old son at school here in Krabi. but when i asked them the rules for a marriage visa i was told firstly 800,000 baht, when i queried this it was immediately reduced to 400,000 baht or a letter from your Embassy proving your income of 40,000 per month, when i told them the UK Embassy doesnt issue letters anymore, i was told "400,000 or Embassy letter" i tried to explain, but he just got angry and kept saying 400,000 or Embassy letter. so what happens when i return in a couple of months, who knows. why don't the Immigration offices have the same rules..... is there something in writing i can take, or do i just drive to Phuket.....

Edited January 14, 2020 by Boyblue
extra information added.

[youngster30uk]

9 minutes ago, johnc925 said:

I can tell you from personal experience that Phuket immigration will not accept 12 months bank statements proving deposits or any such information. I was completely refused by Phuket immigration to extend my retirement Visa within convect verification or to use it for marriage visa.

 

 

I had the same experience 4 weeks ago, but this seems to say that that information is wrong

 

“Under this type of visa, all that is required to prove your income are bank statements and your bankbooks [plus copies of the relevant pages to file with the application].

“This is fine to prove your income,” Lt Col Udom said.

 

[AAArdvark]

1 hour ago, Partenavia said:

It is not so straight forward as Phuket Immigration are saying. 

 

Yesterday I went to my Immigration Office to renew my retirement visa. Over the past year I have transferred 65,000 baht every month into my Thai account from the UK. Because the exchange rate is always better in Thailand than the UK I always transfer in sterling. In June, because of exchange rates the transfer was 63,990. I therefore increased my sterling transfer to ensure this didn't happen again. In October I transferred 65,000 from my other Thai account. All other 10 months showed payments between 78,000 and 66,000.

 

My visa was refused, because 1 month was less than 65,000 and I hadn't realised you could not transfer from another Thai account. The fact that my total income met their annual requirement was apparently irrelevant.

 

Having returned to the same immigration office for the past seven years with an Embassy letter confirming my salary and getting my visa renewed without any problems, I was disappointed. 

To prevent this from happening, I use Transferwise and specify the receiving amount and Transferwise calculates how much is needed to receive that amount.

[Russell17au]

3 minutes ago, Redline said:

The process for marriage extension is a joke though.  Pictures of you and your wife on your bed, and in front of the house, immigration coming to your house to take pictures of you too, talking to your neighbors and copying their house book-most of this every year.  Stacks of copies every year that are tossed in the trash.  A couple more years I’m out too.  I can see one time, but not every year-intrusiveness 

You are talking a load of rubbish. I am on a marriage extension and I have never had to supply any photo's of us on the bed. We were only visited by immigration on the original application. I have only ever had to give 4 photo's per year and one of those photo's must be outside the house showing the house number. Since the original application we have never been visited by immigration and we do not have to take witnesses when we do our renewal. The only thing that has changed for us is that we no longer can submit the income letter from the embassy so, yes, now there is extra paperwork which is quite simple to get from the bank.

[Jip99]

4 minutes ago, AAArdvark said:

To prevent this from happening, I use Transferwise and specify the receiving amount and Transferwise calculates how much is needed to receive that amount.

+1

[Max69xl]

15 hours ago, stevenl said:

Very clear. He could not proof his income, therefore rejected.

What are you talking about? There are no income letters issued at the UK,US and Australian embassies since January 1 last year. Citizens from those 3 countries need bank statements from their Thai banks. This is >1 year old news. 

[Russell17au]

4 minutes ago, Mr Smithy said:

Americans never had to evidence income to their embassy - They just swore an affidavit as did Australians - Only Brits were required to provide proof of income before the embassy would issue a letter.

That's what I mean if you read what I wrote. What would he declare as his income to the US Embassy if he cannot produce that same income to the Thai Immigration

[Mr Smithy]

1 minute ago, Russell17au said:

That's what I mean if you read what I wrote. What would he declare as his income to the US Embassy if he cannot produce that same income to the Thai Immigration

You wrote " Was he going to give false financials to the US Embassy?"

[Jip99]

2 hours ago, Partenavia said:

It is not so straight forward as Phuket Immigration are saying. 

 

Yesterday I went to my Immigration Office to renew my retirement visa. Over the past year I have transferred 65,000 baht every month into my Thai account from the UK. Because the exchange rate is always better in Thailand than the UK I always transfer in sterling. In June, because of exchange rates the transfer was 63,990. I therefore increased my sterling transfer to ensure this didn't happen again. In October I transferred 65,000 from my other Thai account. All other 10 months showed payments between 78,000 and 66,000.

 

My visa was refused, because 1 month was less than 65,000 and I hadn't realised you could not transfer from another Thai account. The fact that my total income met their annual requirement was apparently irrelevant.

 

Having returned to the same immigration office for the past seven years with an Embassy letter confirming my salary and getting my visa renewed without any problems, I was disappointed. 

 

There is no longer an ‘annual’ figure; the requirement is for 65,000 Baht EVERY month.

 

As confirmed By Sandyf’s post.

[stevenl]

26 minutes ago, Mr Smithy said:

Prove it --  

Read the OP.

[stevenl]

5 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

What are you talking about? There are no income letters issued at the UK,US and Australian embassies since January 1 last year. Citizens from those 3 countries need bank statements from their Thai banks. This is >1 year old news. 

Which is what I am talking about.

[Mr Smithy]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Read the OP.

I did - The OP is NOT proof and is grossly misleading as those of us who deal with Phuket Immigration know.

[Redline]

21 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

You are talking a load of rubbish. I am on a marriage extension and I have never had to supply any photo's of us on the bed. We were only visited by immigration on the original application. I have only ever had to give 4 photo's per year and one of those photo's must be outside the house showing the house number. Since the original application we have never been visited by immigration and we do not have to take witnesses when we do our renewal. The only thing that has changed for us is that we no longer can submit the income letter from the embassy so, yes, now there is extra paperwork which is quite simple to get from the bank.

We do all of them except witnesses every year, so I guess you are a know it all ????. Every immigration department is different in Thailand, or are you still ignorant of this fact.  What benefit do I have to lie ????.  Another day, another TV know it all.  My wife is also a well known actress in Thailand, and we still have to go through this.  You should ask questions instead of attack people smart man.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Redline

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, tomauasia said:

They are issued my embassy cant refuse me l asked. But they said they won't accept it possibly.. I can also prove my income on Citibank app to embassy. As l discussed with the embassy. Thanks

Okey, and what did you just say? If you are from one of the countries this news regards, then you embassy will not issue the letter no more. If you are from a country where they still issue the income verification letter, then that will be accepted by immigration.

[robertson468]

14 hours ago, Scot123 said:

All I can say is thank god I/we left Thailand last year. After 9 years always worrying and having to go through that 90 day annual application. Rules changing on a whim what a way to live your life when you can never feel 100% secure. As for the smugness of sum people it never said he could not prove his income. He may not have had 400,000baht or 800,000baht in his account he may not have kept 50% of that untouched in his account (forever). It is very possible he could prove his income with bank statements. I remember going to immigration (an office I had used for 8 years so 8 applications and over 32 90 days reports) and asking the question way back in October 2018 about my requirements and if bank statements would do to prove income (which hadn't changed in 9 years well annual increase) to be told NO! Then told "it's only 800,000baht 3 months before and left for 3 months after application". I blew a fuse and told them to shuve Thailand and walked out leaving Thailand 5 months later. Leaving was the best decision I ever made, well settled back in the UK, wife being treated with dignity and respect, children loving school and me actually enjoying driving again. Beer is great, wine is great, food is far better quality and the icing on the cake is its all cheaper than Thailand now. 

Glad you are happy back on the good old UK.  Please remember you were not a Thai National, but only a visitor to Thailand.  I have been here for 15 years, and have successfully achieved a Married Extension Visa each year.  You should also be aware that it was NOT immigrations that caused the problem regarding confirming income via Embassies.  It was the Embassies who said they were not checking that the source of income was valid.  Some Embassies said yes they do check (whether they do or not might be questionable) and continue to provide their citizens with the letter of confirmation of income.  Sadly the UK, USA and a few other Embassies said they do not and have no intention of checking the source of income.  Blame you Embassy, not Thailand!   The Rules for Visas are clearly printed on the Immigration website for all to read, for those who can read them, or can be bothered to read them. 

[stevenl]

27 minutes ago, Mr Smithy said:

I did - The OP is NOT proof and is grossly misleading as those of us who deal with Phuket Immigration know.

 

30 minutes ago, Mr Smithy said:

 

No idea what you're talking about. Phuket immigration accepts proof of income from abroad. Your statement ' It is a fact that Phuket immigration will only accept 400K Baht in a Thai bank, income from employment(verified by Thai tax records) or an embassy letter which is no longer available to Australians, Americans  or Brits. ' is simply not correct.

[Bartman1369]

16 hours ago, stevenl said:

Very clear. He could not proof his income, therefore rejected.

Goto to Laos, Savannakhet. No proof of income required.

[Mr Smithy]

Just now, stevenl said:

 

No idea what you're talking about. Phuket immigration accepts proof of income from abroad. Your statement ' It is a fact that Phuket immigration will only accept 400K Baht in a Thai bank, income from employment(verified by Thai tax records) or an embassy letter which is no longer available to Australians, Americans  or Brits. ' is simply not correct.

Do you live in Phuket and have you secured an extension based on marriage using monthly income from abroad? -- If not keep quiet 

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, Mr Smithy said:

Do you live in Phuket and have you secured an extension based on marriage using monthly income from abroad? -- If not keep quiet 

Been living here some time now, and know many people  getting an extension of stay on income from abroad.

 

'If not keep quiet', please control yourself.

[Balance]

16 hours ago, Kopitiam said:

Exactly.

Embassy letters were a farce to begin with since they simply accepted what the expat gave them.  They were also a secondary document.  

 

For an expat to prove (not proof) his income he had to show his bankbook deposits and the deposits had to originate from outside of Thailand.  It is really quite simple. Every month the Social Security Administration transferred $2,400 to my account at BKB in New York that was immediately available in Thailand (unless there was a bank holiday as the conversion to Bhat happened in Bangkok.)   

[Mbaki]

56 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

You are talking a load of rubbish. I am on a marriage extension and I have never had to supply any photo's of us on the bed. We were only visited by immigration on the original application. I have only ever had to give 4 photo's per year and one of those photo's must be outside the house showing the house number. Since the original application we have never been visited by immigration and we do not have to take witnesses when we do our renewal. The only thing that has changed for us is that we no longer can submit the income letter from the embassy so, yes, now there is extra paperwork which is quite simple to get from the bank.

Agreed

[Mr Smithy]

Phuket Immigration requirements for an extension based on marriage - 

http://piv-phuket.com/long-stay-extensions/marriage-m/

Please note monthly income from abroad is not accepted unless supported by an embassy letter.

[brianthainess]

3 hours ago, madmitch said:

I think you are right but what the covoluted Phuket News article fails to state is whether the American did have sufficient money in the bank. If he does have the funds he'll be fine, if he doesn't he's screwed.

No coz he can use an Agent and the corrupt immigration will give him a visa no money required, but he needs to open an acc with whatever bank the agent wants before his visa expires.

[Mr Smithy]

5 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Been living here some time now, and know many people  getting an extension of stay on income from abroad.

 

'If not keep quiet', please control yourself.

Please explain why I and three others I know were refused.

[Redoubt]

Here is but one more true tale for the list:  An American sought to acquire a "Non O-A 'Long Stay' Visa" from the Thai Embassy in Washington, DC.  The professional services of a Thai company in Bangkok were commissioned to assist in the production of the application package.  This expat had made flight reservations during October 2019 to depart the USA on December 31st.  The completed application was mailed from Florida to the Embassy's Visa Section during early November.  On December 13th an Embassy staff member telephoned stating that the applicant failed to read the information on the Embassy's website, and did not include a new Foreign Insurance Certificate (FIC) (health insurance), and also did not qualify with monthly income.  Clearly the FIC was not included because the applicant knew nothing about the new requirement.  The applicant's medical / health insurance is perhaps one of the best available and would cover anything in Thailand.  However, although the applicant's three (3) months of bank statements show a monthly pension income well beyond and in excess of the amount the Thai government demanded, the applicant's end-of-month balance was below what the Thai official desired.  Following this unfortunate encounter, the applicant emailed the Embassy begging for the opportunity to remedy the problems.  Finally on December 30th a very kind official brought the then completed application package before the Embassy's Consular; and it was again denied only because the bank statement's end-of-month balance was "not enough".  So, even though the current Thai law pertaining to income requires a 'bank balance' "OR" a monthly qualifying income amount in excess, the Visa application was denied.  It apparently matters not if the applicant was purchasing 'gold', investing in a business or real estate, or acquiring valuable 'antiquities' at home, with his/her money from that very substantial pension.  Apparently what was actually demanded was that a 'minimum bank balance be in the bank' no matter what a "retiree" actually receives with their lifetime guaranteed pensions.  Footnote:  The required Passport for the next day's flight was sent by a very kind Embassy staff member, who graciously visited a local FedEx office on his lunch break to send it overnight via FedEx which the applicant happily paid $91.00 USD for; and the trip to the beautiful Kingdom did take place as scheduled.