"Black Snow" - when are the authorities going to do something serious about sugar cane burning?

[Chazar]

5 hours ago, Just1Voice said:

In Civilized countries, they do not burn  the husks of previous crops, the plow them under to put nutrients back in the soil. But the term Civilized does not apply to Thailand, sooooo....

This is  simple, its  all  about  money, burn is  cheap, we  had  to  plough our  crops  back in after  smashing it to  pieces  first cost  about 8k more than matches.

 

[Chazar]

2 hours ago, Bassosa said:

Can you explain to me why?

Why aren't the people who have to endure the "black snow" allowed to demand immediate action from their cane grower neighbours until ASEAN gets together and "tackles" the issue?

Cane growers are part of the social fabric of their respective communities. Why can't they be held accountable for their actions?

Why do these issues always have to be dealt with on a macro level, considering the complete lack of effectiveness.

What's stopping a neighbour addressing another neighbour about rubbish burning? Does that need to go to ASEAN as well?

probably  end up  getting stabbed as violence rules here

[CharlieH]

11 minutes ago, 30la said:

Here it is called FOG!

In my experience "Fog" doesnt smell like burning 

[GeorgeCross]

2 hours ago, Bassosa said:

Can you explain to me why?

Why aren't the people who have to endure the "black snow" allowed to demand immediate action from their cane grower neighbours until ASEAN gets together and "tackles" the issue?

Cane growers are part of the social fabric of their respective communities. Why can't they be held accountable for their actions?

Why do these issues always have to be dealt with on a macro level, considering the complete lack of effectiveness.

What's stopping a neighbour addressing another neighbour about rubbish burning? Does that need to go to ASEAN as well?

 

are you trying to stop the "snow" or the smog?

 

because if its the latter asking the 2 farmers next door (or 20) to borrow a tractor next year isn't going to help much 

 

fires today seasia:

 

thats why it needs to be ASEAN wide otherwise they're just flicking peanuts at elephants

 

 

[hotchilli]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

"Black Snow" - when are the authorities going to do something serious about sugar cane burning?

After the next blue moon.

[Bangkok Barry]

3 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

"Not our house, not our ploblem" Krup

 

We advise our department who will advise the relevant department, who will advise the other department, who will advise the other department, but please don't get off the merry-go-round just yet, because there will be other departments that will need to know, and in the meantime wear a mask and don't light up too many incense at one time, Krup

 You forgot about forming a committee which must report within seven days, and that committee must first form a committee to decide who shall sit on the committee. And so on. That delays things enough to give enough time for everyone to be distracted by something else that no-one wants to do anything about and forget the original problem.

[Bassosa]

11 minutes ago, GeorgeCross said:

 

are you trying to stop the "snow" or the smog?

 

because if its the latter asking the 2 farmers next door (or 20) to borrow a tractor next year isn't going to help much 

 

fires today seasia:

 

thats why it needs to be ASEAN wide otherwise they're just flicking peanuts at elephants

 

 

It's gotta start somewhere, somehow....

Look, I have all my assets still in the mother country, it wouldn't affect me personally if Thailand burnt to the ground and/or destroys it tourism industry, but it's at least interesting to see how Thai and farang find so many reason to do nothing at all. 

 

[tomazbodner]

From BP article linked above:

"At present, purchasing burnt sugarcane stalks is not illegal, but the pre-harvesting burning is a criminal offence that can carry a minimum penalty of two years' imprisonment and a 14,000 baht fine."

[Burma Bill]

Being a diabetic, as far as I am concerned they can burn the sugar mills/refineries as well!! Mitrphol has a lot to answer.

[tomazbodner]

21 minutes ago, Bassosa said:

It's gotta start somewhere, somehow....

Look, I have all my assets still in the mother country, it wouldn't affect me personally if Thailand burnt to the ground and/or destroys it tourism industry, but it's at least interesting to see how Thai and farang find so many reason to do nothing at all. 

 

You could support EU in putting ban on imports from Cambodia... Though that can quickly backfire.

[Cake Monster]

6 hours ago, englishoak said:

 

Those complaining about the fires arnt the ones doing it..... The rich and elite also have to breath exactly the same air and so do their kids, there is no reason NOT to take steps and do what most of the industrialised world has learned and done, adjust with urgency and clean up... all Thailand has to do is just copy previous steps other nations have taken to improve air quality... but being TIT, stupid is as stupid does. 

Most of the issues appear to be from Cambodia, where Chinese Owned Farming Enterprises consisted of over 900 " Hot spot " fires yesterday.

These were registered by Satellites. and there were 126 in Thailand

[MikeN]

1 hour ago, DrTuner said:

Uh-huh. The reason I didn't see ozzies burn their fields is probably because I'm from the other side of the world. No idea if it's banned or not but nobody burns fields anymore. Haven't for a few decades. The results are pretty obvious:

 

The Burdekin district is/was the only place that still generally burnt their cane, something about it being extra green due to irrigation or something.

 In the article quoted before, in that year other areas had to go back to the bad old ways of burning because the fields were full of debris from a cyclone and because a lot of old cane had not been harvested due to a mill closure the previous year.

 So generally speaking cane is not burnt in Australia, has not been for some time.

[Bassosa]

14 minutes ago, Cake Monster said:

Most of the issues appear to be from Cambodia, where Chinese Owned Farming Enterprises consisted of over 900 " Hot spot " fires yesterday.

These were registered by Satellites. and there were 126 in Thailand

And now what?

 

Do nothing because Cambodia is a worse offender?

Thailand is not allowed to lead in terms of agricultural reform?

Or are you worried about the competitiveness of the Thai sugar cane industry? 

Why should an industry so polluting even have the right to be competitive?

[DrTuner]

2 minutes ago, Bassosa said:

Do nothing because Cambodia is a worse offender?

That is exactly the excuse Thais will use after the diesel/fog/etc BS doesn't fly anymore. Those pesky Cambodians.

[Bassosa]

3 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

That is exactly the excuse Thais will use after the diesel/fog/etc BS doesn't fly anymore. Those pesky Cambodians.

Exactly..

Even people on this forum buy into these diversion tactics. Sad.

 

Indeed, the discussion about air pollution is ruined by the spread of wrong information. Over in the Bangkok forum the main concern seems to pinpointing the culprits, either agricultural burning or vehicle emissions. The fact that it's a bit of both is lost on them. It's the famers! NO, it's the old buses. CANNOT BE BOTH! 

Crazy.

[GreasyFingers]

3 hours ago, DrTuner said:

I remember growing up in country side. I did see somebody burn a field once. I think it was in 1975. 

Black snow. It used to be called Black Gold because it was bringing much needed money into the local community once a year.

[mrfill]

1 hour ago, hotchilli said:

After the next blue moon.

Which will be 31st October 2020.....

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 You forgot about forming a committee which must report within seven days, and that committee must first form a committee to decide who shall sit on the committee. And so on. That delays things enough to give enough time for everyone to be distracted by something else that no-one wants to do anything about and forget the original problem.

Getting old and forgetful I are ????

 

[gavlar]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

Getting old and forgetful I are ????

 

I thought the factories weren't going to buy burnt cane anymore...easiest way to stop it.

Up here in North East the locals think it's a big joke....black snow...have no clue or simply dont care about their kids getting bronchial issues or maybe even worse.

Nephew has already spent a few days in hospital with the oxygen mask for his asthma and its still early in the cutting season.

In earlier news there were few fires being recorded in Thailand compared to Cambodia...I could see 5 within eyesight last night.

Absolutely disgraceful for a government to do nothing to stop it.

 

[4MyEgo]

20 minutes ago, gavlar said:

I thought the factories weren't going to buy burnt cane anymore...easiest way to stop it.

Up here in North East the locals think it's a big joke....black snow...have no clue or simply dont care about their kids getting bronchial issues or maybe even worse.

Nephew has already spent a few days in hospital with the oxygen mask for his asthma and its still early in the cutting season.

In earlier news there were few fires being recorded in Thailand compared to Cambodia...I could see 5 within eyesight last night.

Absolutely disgraceful for a government to do nothing to stop it.

 

You can read the full story on the link I posted @ #10 an extract below in bigger font size.

 

An employee at a sugar-processing factory reveals that when they need to meet quota and demand, "we will take in any sugarcane stalks, freshly cut or burnt". At present, purchasing burnt sugarcane stalks is not illegal, but the pre-harvesting burning is a criminal offence that can carry a minimum penalty of two years' imprisonment and a 14,000 baht fine.

 

The local police station acknowledges the problem but cannot arrest wrongdoers, because the arson takes place at night. Setting fire in the farms is simple, requiring just a cigarette butt or a matchstick and drops of gasoline. The Pollution Control Department (PCD), which has been active in controlling the haze in the North and the South, cannot do much.

 

There is the attitude, cannot do much, yeh right whos pockets are getting field to turn and look the other way, and as its' the 2nd largest export, the $'s to be made are scary, very powerful people I would imagine, $ wise.

[mike787]

Most things are about money, a Gofund may help incentivize action, let's all give so that we can be seen as agents of change...in the meantime, until change happens - suck it up!

[DaRoadrunner]

10 hours ago, webfact said:

when are the authorities going to do something serious about sugar cane burning?

You know the saying; "Don't hold your breath waiting." Though in this case holding your breath may be a requirement if you do not have a smog mask!

 

Lots o luck getting the Govt to do anything except line their own pockets. As for the farmers; ignorance is bliss.

 

Never have I seen a country shoot itself in its own foot like this one.... Paradise lost.... Sad.

[DrTuner]

1 hour ago, DaRoadrunner said:

Never have I seen a country shoot itself in its own foot like this one.... Paradise lost.... Sad.

It's pretty much the standard here. Communism, khmer rouge, military coups, etc. If something works, break it ASAP. Welcome to SEA.

[GeorgeCross]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

The local police station acknowledges the problem but cannot arrest wrongdoers, because the arson takes place at night.

 

this raised my eyebrow when i first read it. so why? they don't work at night? no torches? all drunk by nightfall?

 

makes no sense

 

can't they just pop round in the morning and arrest the landowner?

 

 

 

[Bangkok Barry]

2 hours ago, gavlar said:

I thought the factories weren't going to buy burnt cane anymore...easiest way to stop it.

Up here in North East the locals think it's a big joke....black snow...have no clue or simply dont care about their kids getting bronchial issues or maybe even worse.

Nephew has already spent a few days in hospital with the oxygen mask for his asthma and its still early in the cutting season.

In earlier news there were few fires being recorded in Thailand compared to Cambodia...I could see 5 within eyesight last night.

Absolutely disgraceful for a government to do nothing to stop it.

 

 

The government has nothing to do with it. They have put laws in place but they are ignored by both the police and the citizens. Thais will always do whatever they want to do, regardless of advice or consequences. Basically, they are ungovernable and their attitude is deep-rooted.  Without an effective police force there is anarchy. Of course, the government, any government over the past decades, announce so many ridiculous laws that are unenforceable everyone ignores them. The problem with that is it leads to them ignoring all laws. It's like a cancer that spreads all through society.

 

There's a law, by the way, that all lorries carrying sugar cane must have their loads secured under tarpaulins. That is to prevent them dropping their load on the road which is hazardous and sometimes deadly to motorcyclists. Has anyone every seen a load covered or a driver prosecuted? Nobody in Thailand gives a rat's fart about anything, even if it can lead to fatalities.

 

[Destiny1990]

Probably busy With chasing these Foreigner pornstars.

[kingofthemountain]

It seems the government has decided to do something

they can't or wan't to stop and fine the burners

so they will subsidize the no burners.

 

It's better than nothing, but i don't get it

how in a country with an authoritarian style goverment

where in fact the army can still put in charge for security reasons

they are not able to stop a bunch of criminals burning lands for profit

endangering the health of millions of citizens?

 

''The Department of Pollution Control has reported the burning of sugarcane in plantations to prepare for a new planting season has been a major cause of PM 2.5 airborne dust, particularly from December to April during which sugarcane in plantations is harvested. The burning activity is likely to have a severe effect in the dry season when there’s low humidity in the air.

 

Industry Minister Suriya Juangroongruangkit recently discussed the matter with four organizations representing sugarcane planters: the National Federation of Sugarcane Planters; the Northeastern Sugarcane Planters Association; the United Association of Sugarcane Planters of Thailand and the Federation of Sugarcane Planters of Thailand. The Ministry of Industry plans to assist sugarcane planters by providing financial assistance in aid for a ton of fresh sugarcane bound for sugar making factories.

 

The Office of the Sugarcane and Sugar Committee, is to propose measures to provide a sum of 10 billion baht in immediate aid to sugarcane planters in the 2019/2020 season. The sum will be divided into two parts – one amounting to 6.5 billion baht for aid in sugarcane production and the other amounting to 3.5 billion baht for planters who harvest fresh sugarcane.

 

The planters who have harvested fresh sugarcane and supplied it to sugar factories will be given over 1,000 baht per ton, meaning their fresh sugarcane will receive about 130 baht more than burnt sugarcane per ton. The measures are part of the effort to reduce PM 2.5 airborne dust particles and alleviate the woes of the sugarcane planters. About 50% of all sugarcane supplied to sugar factories is expected to be fresh sugarcane this year.''

 

Source Pattayanews 19 jan 2020

[kingofthemountain]

Here in Pattaya every day is worse than the previous.

The ''view'' from my balcony is a permanent fog and i start to have

problems of sore troats.

 

 

[kingofthemountain]

I have decided yesterday to buy some masks in Big C

from the brand 3M both with the N95 norm

I use the two now everytime i go out

the little one (17 baths) has an active carbon filter

and the big one (99 bahts the 2 items) is more sealed, i hope it should be enough to protect me

Since i live in Thailand, i never tought i'd get there one day, but now it's no longer a choice,

sad, really

 

 

[bluejets]

20 hours ago, Just1Voice said:

In Civilized countries, they do not burn  the husks of previous crops, the plow them under to put nutrients back in the soil. But the term Civilized does not apply to Thailand, sooooo....

Aus used to, then they stopped it for maybe 20 years.

Now, in some places, it's back.

So does that mean we are not civilised any more...??