Youtube

[robert2]

Youtube refused to remove the clip? The general ban suddenly seems very justified to me.

Why should they remove it? Youtube is not owned by a thai company and it doesn't reside on Thai soil either. If Thais want to force their country's legislation on the U.S. that's another matter entirely and i'm sure the majority of the U.S. population would be _very_ opposed to that concept.

Your point is correct. And youtube stays offline in Thailand.

[wintermute]

Youtube refused to remove the clip? The general ban suddenly seems very justified to me.

Why should they remove it? Youtube is not owned by a thai company and it doesn't reside on Thai soil either. If Thais want to force their country's legislation on the U.S. that's another matter entirely and i'm sure the majority of the U.S. population would be _very_ opposed to that concept.

Your point is correct. And youtube stays offline in Thailand.

I don't use it anyways so it would only effect those Thais and few expats who do use their services. Not a tremendous issue for a multi billion dollar global media giant.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Looking at the CNN site "world news>asia" I founde the following (Quote):

"BANGKOK, Thailand (Reuters) -- Thailand's army-backed government accused online video-sharing Web site YouTube on Thursday of being heartless and culturally insensitive for refusing to remove a clip mocking the country's revered king.

"We have told them how deeply offended Thais were by the clip, but they said there was much worse ridicule of President Bush on the site and they kept that there," Communications Minister Sitthichai Pookaiyaudom told Reuters.

"I don't think they really care how we feel. Thailand is only a tiny market for them," said Sitthichai, who ordered the entire YouTube Web site (www.youtube.com) blocked in Thailand on Wednesday until its owner, Google, removed the clip."

Youtube refused to remove the clip? The general ban suddenly seems very justified to me.

Can you imagine working in the complaints department at Youtube? They must get assaulted daily from special interest groups like PETA, Right to lifers, Environmental orgs, Human rights, ACLU. Elected Officials, Political campaigns, Foreign Governments. Big corporations etc etc.

Would be an interesting story to see how many people work there and the rules each complaint is subject to while being processed.

YT seems well positioned to become the ultimate repository of all things video. If you notice nearly everytime there is a news article referring to an event that was captured on video then there will be link to view it via Youtube. For any country to permanently lose that resource they would be losing an important eye witness account. Like the old saying "A picture is worth a thousand words". A video is worth a lot more because it almost like being there.

[sbk]

Youtube refused to remove the clip? The general ban suddenly seems very justified to me.

Why should they remove it? Youtube is not owned by a thai company and it doesn't reside on Thai soil either. If Thais want to force their country's legislation on the U.S. that's another matter entirely and i'm sure the majority of the U.S. population would be _very_ opposed to that concept.

Your point is correct. And youtube stays offline in Thailand.

Agreed, it doesn't seem that Thailand is trying to force their legislation on the US, they asked. They were refused, so according to the laws of their own country, they did what was legal in Thailand.

[Mid]

well , I would not have even known about it ,

now you can find stills from the clip scattered over the net ,

welcome to the global village .

Edit to add ,

classic case of shooting the messanger .........................

Edited April 5, 2007 by Mid

[bannork]

Looking at the CNN site "world news>asia" I founde the following (Quote):

"BANGKOK, Thailand (Reuters) -- Thailand's army-backed government accused online video-sharing Web site YouTube on Thursday of being heartless and culturally insensitive for refusing to remove a clip mocking the country's revered king.

"We have told them how deeply offended Thais were by the clip, but they said there was much worse ridicule of President Bush on the site and they kept that there," Communications Minister Sitthichai Pookaiyaudom told Reuters.

"I don't think they really care how we feel. Thailand is only a tiny market for them," said Sitthichai, who ordered the entire YouTube Web site (www.youtube.com) blocked in Thailand on Wednesday until its owner, Google, removed the clip."

Youtube refused to remove the clip? The general ban suddenly seems very justified to me.

Can you imagine working in the complaints department at Youtube? They must get assaulted daily from special interest groups like PETA, Right to lifers, Environmental orgs, Human rights, ACLU. Elected Officials, Political campaigns, Foreign Governments. Big corporations etc etc.

Would be an interesting story to see how many people work there and the rules each complaint is subject to while being processed.

YT seems well positioned to become the ultimate repository of all things video. If you notice nearly everytime there is a news article referring to an event that was captured on video then there will be link to view it via Youtube. For any country to permanently lose that resource they would be losing an important eye witness account. Like the old saying "A picture is worth a thousand words". A video is worth a lot more because it almost like being there.

YT is now owned by google who succumbed to pressure from China, censoring some of their stuff when they saw their dollars threatened. The Thai market is not so big so perhaps they don't care. A case of freedom of expression being dependent on the degree of commerce involved.

Edited April 5, 2007 by bannork

[Mid]

YouTube video, user disappear

(BangkokPost.com)

Presumably, full access to YouTube will be resumed, although most Thai users who wanted to see the video had seen it despite the occasionally effective "filtering" of the video site.

ye gods ,

voices of reason .

[pitrevie]

I feel this is a bit like those cartoons published in Denmark. Published in an obscure magazine and probably they would have remained unheard of until about 3 months later 3 Muslim clerics decided to advertise them widely in the Muslim world as well as adding a couple of their own for good measure. I doubt that many people would have heard of this clip had it not been for the action of the Thai authorities. I regularly view YouTube as a lot of the links from the Richard Dawkins website send me there and I had not heard of it until I was unable to access YouTube. Anyone remember the play Romans in Britain, panned by the critics as not very good and heading for a very early closure. Then up pops Mary Whitehouse who was going to bring the full majesty of the law to bear (forgive the pun) and it was a sell out from then on.

[PeaceBlondie]

I sympathize with the Minister of Communication, who was quoted as saying, "I don't think they really care how we feel." I know how you feel, Khun Minister. I feel your pain at your loss of communication. There are a few thousand farang teachers in Thailand who feel that way about their bosses, who aren't very good at......communication! Could you send some Thai teachers over from your ministry to teach some Thai teachers about communication with foreigners? Thank you, sir.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

YT is now owned by google who succumbed to pressure from China, censoring some of their stuff when they saw their dollars threatened. The Thai market is not so big so perhaps they don't care. A case of freedom of expression being dependent on the degree of commerce involved.

What do you mean Google censors for China? Your just pulling a statement like that out of your a#$. Go to Google and do a query on Chinese occupation of Tibet, Taiwan, China Human rights, china animal cruelty, china currency manipulation, china human trafficking, china pollution, China communist corruption etc etc. You will spend months just trying to read it all. I have seen plenty of very negative YT videos about china also. Look at "China dog and cat killing fields" when you can get access to YT again.

Yahoo censored internally for China in exchange for access and they nearly opened hearings in Washington to investigate. Did huge damage to Yahoo's reputation.

China does 99% of their censoring from their gateways are very good at filtering what is allowed to come in thru its firewalls.

[alexth]

Seems really funny when thais speak about communication. Not even the website they are forwarding me to (the Ministry of Information and Communication Technology) does not contain an english version

[dantilley]

YT is now owned by google who succumbed to pressure from China, censoring some of their stuff when they saw their dollars threatened. The Thai market is not so big so perhaps they don't care. A case of freedom of expression being dependent on the degree of commerce involved.

What do you mean Google censors for China? Your just pulling a statement like that out of your a#$. Go to Google and do a query on Chinese occupation of Tibet, Taiwan, China Human rights, china animal cruelty, china currency manipulation, china human trafficking, china pollution, China communist corruption etc etc. You will spend months just trying to read it all. I have seen plenty of very negative YT videos about china also. Look at "China dog and cat killing fields" when you can get access to YT again.

Yahoo censored internally for China in exchange for access and they nearly opened hearings in Washington to investigate. Did huge damage to Yahoo's reputation.

China does 99% of their censoring from their gateways are very good at filtering what is allowed to come in thru its firewalls.

Google China is censored. Source

[marquess]

Much of the material found on YouTube is insulting to someone, somewhere. The nature of the thing is such that it could hardly be otherwise. But the reputation of YouTube is well known; those with particular sensitivities would do well to avoid it altogether. And those who favour government censorship of communications media ignore, at their peril, the lessons of history.

Congratulations on your first post Viceroy!

[Mid]

A Picture Says 1000 Words About Google's Censorship In China

[LivinLOS]

YT is now owned by google who succumbed to pressure from China, censoring some of their stuff when they saw their dollars threatened. The Thai market is not so big so perhaps they don't care. A case of freedom of expression being dependent on the degree of commerce involved.

What do you mean Google censors for China? Your just pulling a statement like that out of your a#$. Go to Google and do a query on Chinese occupation of Tibet, Taiwan, China Human rights, china animal cruelty, china currency manipulation, china human trafficking, china pollution, China communist corruption etc etc. You will spend months just trying to read it all. I have seen plenty of very negative YT videos about china also. Look at "China dog and cat killing fields" when you can get access to YT again.

Yahoo censored internally for China in exchange for access and they nearly opened hearings in Washington to investigate. Did huge damage to Yahoo's reputation.

China does 99% of their censoring from their gateways are very good at filtering what is allowed to come in thru its firewalls.

Google China is censored. Source

Theres a big difference between not indexing pages (not changing or removing thier content) to gain access to an entire market of billions of people.. Than pulling and removing content which is basically merely childish doodles and juvenile mockery..

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

YT is now owned by google who succumbed to pressure from China, censoring some of their stuff when they saw their dollars threatened. The Thai market is not so big so perhaps they don't care. A case of freedom of expression being dependent on the degree of commerce involved.

What do you mean Google censors for China? Your just pulling a statement like that out of your a#$. Go to Google and do a query on Chinese occupation of Tibet, Taiwan, China Human rights, china animal cruelty, china currency manipulation, china human trafficking, china pollution, China communist corruption etc etc. You will spend months just trying to read it all. I have seen plenty of very negative YT videos about china also. Look at "China dog and cat killing fields" when you can get access to YT again.

Yahoo censored internally for China in exchange for access and they nearly opened hearings in Washington to investigate. Did huge damage to Yahoo's reputation.

China does 99% of their censoring from their gateways are very good at filtering what is allowed to come in thru its firewalls.

Google China is censored. Source

<deleted>. They are limiting data inside China. Of course they are a totalitarian govt that is rated next to last for press freedoms.

Anyone or company can set up a Google indexed database that is a limited subset of all data. Lets say I want to index just the things from my own website. Its a subset of data. China has chosen to allow Google to work inside its borders with a limited subset of data in the same way they would work for a company.

If China allowed uncensored searches of the global Google database they would see tons of china negative news.

They aren't censoring in favor of China in any other country. Correct me if you have any information.

So let's see there are 170 some countries and in 169 of the countries they are not censoring any china information and they have sold out??????????

[seagull]

What a lot of fuss about a website being barred, have you not got more interesting things in your life to look at?

Nope!

[LivinLOS]

And after my point about about the big difference between not indexing and removing content..

When has youtube ever removed content based on mockery or simple defamation ?? Consider the hillary 1984 stuff recently posted on youtube that was mocking, that also had the possiility of effecting a campaign run, US elections, even when you think about it possible global future.. should (or was) that be pulled because it was mocking or defamation ??

[lomatopo]

FWIW, "This video has been removed by the user." is the message I get when I try to play the offending video. Hopefully YouTube can now be unblocked?

[thefusilier]

YT is now owned by google who succumbed to pressure from China, censoring some of their stuff when they saw their dollars threatened. The Thai market is not so big so perhaps they don't care. A case of freedom of expression being dependent on the degree of commerce involved.

What do you mean Google censors for China? Your just pulling a statement like that out of your a#$. Go to Google and do a query on Chinese occupation of Tibet, Taiwan, China Human rights, china animal cruelty, china currency manipulation, china human trafficking, china pollution, China communist corruption etc etc. You will spend months just trying to read it all. I have seen plenty of very negative YT videos about china also. Look at "China dog and cat killing fields" when you can get access to YT again.

Yahoo censored internally for China in exchange for access and they nearly opened hearings in Washington to investigate. Did huge damage to Yahoo's reputation.

China does 99% of their censoring from their gateways are very good at filtering what is allowed to come in thru its firewalls.

Google China is censored. Source

<deleted>. They are limiting data inside China. Of course they are a totalitarian govt that is rated next to last for press freedoms.

Anyone or company can set up a Google indexed database that is a limited subset of all data. Lets say I want to index just the things from my own website. Its a subset of data. China has chosen to allow Google to work inside its borders with a limited subset of data in the same way they would work for a company.

If China allowed uncensored searches of the global Google database they would see tons of china negative news.

They aren't censoring in favor of China in any other country. Correct me if you have any information.

So let's see there are 170 some countries and in 169 of the countries they are not censoring any china information and they have sold out??????????

I would say they made a very poor moral decision as far as freedom goes.

[lingyai]

FWIW, "This video has been removed by the user." is the message I get when I try to play the offending video. Hopefully YouTube can now be unblocked?

It may have been removed by the user or maybe not. It said the user had not logged in since march 25th after the video was pulled. So maybe the user didn't pull the video, someone else did.

[lomatopo]

FWIW, "This video has been removed by the user." is the message I get when I try to play the offending video. Hopefully YouTube can now be unblocked?

It may have been removed by the user or maybe not. It said the user had not logged in since march 25th after the video was pulled. So maybe the user didn't pull the video, someone else did.

Regardless, the video has been removed. It does show up in a search but when trying to play you see the message that "This video has been removed by the user". I'd submit that the user felt a lot of pressure, possibly from GoogleTube, to remove the offending video. In any event, since it has been removed we can hope that the responsible Thai officials will stand behind their pledge to un-block YouTube once the video has been removed.

Edited April 5, 2007 by lomatopo

[jetjock]

BANGKOK POST

BREAKING NEWS

YouTube video, user disappear

(BangkokPost.com) - The offensive slideshow video of His Majesty the King that triggered the government ban on YouTube disappeared from the video-sharing website on Thursday afternoon, and the anonymous user who posted it was banned.

When trying to access the 440-second video on the King, a notice on YouTube said that, "This video has been removed by the user."

Meanwhile, the video site said of the user who uploaded the video under an alias of "paddidda": "This account is closed."

The video could still be found in some YouTube searches, but could not be played.

In less than five days, the video was played more than 66,000 times, almost all of them after the sensational publicity created by Information and Communication Technology Minister Sitthichai Pookaiyaudom and his order to ban YouTube inside Thailand.

It attracted at least 953 comments, almost all of them attacking the video, and most of them rude.

Presumably, full access to YouTube will be resumed, although most Thai users who wanted to see the video had seen it despite the occasionally effective "filtering" of the video site.

[thefusilier]

Three cheers for Sitthichai Pookaiyaudom!

He should be some struggling actor's agent.

Edited April 5, 2007 by thefusilier

[A_Traveller]

BANGKOK POST

BREAKING NEWS

YouTube video, user disappear

(BangkokPost.com) - The offensive slideshow video of His Majesty the King that triggered the government ban on YouTube disappeared from the video-sharing website on Thursday afternoon, and the anonymous user who posted it was banned.

When trying to access the 440-second video on the King, a notice on YouTube said that, "This video has been removed by the user."

...

Accurate as always I see.

Regards

[maemanee]

Well now that the controversial clip has been removed I hope that people in Thailand can once again enjoy the remaining 99.9% of worthwhile entertainment Youtube has to offer.

Thai web boards the past few days has been exploding on this topic and not surprisingly those living outside of Thailand have been amazed at how a 44 sec. video clip has created so much stir in this little Southeast Asia country that lots of Americans can't even point to on the map. Well as a Thai, I must say that the clip was way beyond profanity. In additon to the lese majeste insults that has been in the spotlight, the Thai national anthem was also played in the background on top of the insulting images and the comments by other users was just unthinkable. Youtube's staff seriously need some cross-cultural sensitivity training, as their site is undeniably an international forum. Mocking an individual is one thing but to disrespect and insult another country's national anthem and symbol is another. While most Americans and Brits may find it all right to mock Bush or the Queen of England in the most ridiculous ways, if either country's national anthem was being played along with the images, I wonder how many Americans or Brits would still find it amusing.

I'm a major proponent of First Amendment rights but needless to say, libel and defamatory laws still exist in the US to curb those taking the First Amendment and freedom of speech to the extremes. However it is understandable that the concept of monarchy to many Americans is such a 'fairy tale' idea. While the United States was founded on the premise of founding fathers fighting for independence against abuse and exploitation by a tyrannic king over 200 years ago, for over 700 years, Thailand's history is deeply rooted in our kings being the 'father' of the nation and the perception of monarchy above all political and other social institutions.

A colleague of mine asked me about the Swiss man being sentenced to 10 years in prison on lese majeste charges after spraying graffiti on a public image of the Thai king. She didn't understand why the punishment was so severe and I found it difficult to explain a cultural mindset that goes back so many generations..

[sriracha john]

Thank you for that excellent post and welcome to Thaivisa.

[sriracha john]

LESE MAJESTE

YouTube ban to remain in effect for now

Blockage of popular video website won't end until still image is removed

The blockage imposed on the YouTube website in Thailand will continue until a particular still image from a contentious video clip regarded as lese-majeste is also removed from the website, Information and Communications Technology (ICT) Minister Sitthichai Pookaiyaudom said yesterday.

He said the earlier removal of the 44-second film clip containing the content from the US-based website was not enough. "We also want that picture removed before we unblock YouTube," he added.

The ministry earlier said it would impose the blockade indefinitely until other measures were adopted or YouTube decided to remove the lese-majeste video clip without conditions.

Next Monday, police and the ministry will work out issues to deal with such a case in the future.

Sitthichai said he was "dismayed" and complained bitterly when Google Inc, which owns YouTube, refused to remove the content, citing that it still kept material mocking US President George W Bush far more harshly than what was deemed inappropriate against His Majesty the King.

Sitthichai added that YouTube insisted it would still keep the clip. "YouTube said it thought there was not enough reason to remove the clip after viewing the video and making its judgement on the content," he added.

He described the posting as "unacceptable" to all Thais.

"Thailand is a small country and has no negotiating power to get the content removed from YouTube. What we can do now is block the YouTube service locally, until the clip is removed," he added.

During the ICT Ministry-ordered blockade, any Internet service provider in Thailand found to be hosting websites containing content that insults His Majesty or the Royal Family or still leaves access to YouTube open to local users will have its operating licences revoked immediately.

The clip was later removed, not long after the blockade of YouTube began in Thailand on Tuesday night.

A message on the YouTube page where the clip was used said the 44-second video clip in Flash format was removed by the user - self-described as a US-based, 30-year old with the user name "Paddidda".

After posting the clip not long after March 25, when he or she registered to use the service, the user never logged into the page until yesterday evening, when the clip was removed, said a note posted yesterday on the YouTube page in question.

Associated Press explained how the content in the video clip violated lese-majeste law. The number of visitors accessing the YouTube page reached 66,553, before the clip was pulled.

In an e-mail statement on Wednesday night, YouTube spokeswoman Julie Supan said the company was "disappointed" its site had been blocked.

- The Nation

====================================

you're right, maemanee, there's a great deal of educating that needs to be done.

[lomatopo]

I think that once the still image is removed there will be futher unreasonable demands by Thai officials. First they'll demand an apology, then they'll want YouTube to serve up the poster of the video by name and demand prosecution, then even more demands. I think y'all can forget about YouTube for the foreseeable future.

[cdnvic]

Be interesting to see how much this affects speeds with that much international bandwidth shut off.