saengd Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 9 minutes ago, WaveHunter said: You are being foolish if you really believe what you just said. Objectives, directives...quibble with words if you like. That's what most people resort to when they disagree with something that they don't understand or have positions they can not defend with logical thought. The fact remains that democratic nations exists for the protection of their citizens. In America, we have every possible ethnic, religious and racial type, all united as a nation. Those things do not define a nation. Preserving the rights of its' citizens, and providing for their safety and well-being define the nation of the United States. Every nation on earth exists to defend its' right to exist. It really is as simple as that. Most truly democratic nations such as yours or mine do it for the good of its' own citizens. Others like the China, under the current rulle of the CCP do it for the good of the Ruling party (over the good of its' citizens). But they ALL have the same objective...to defend their right to exist as nation states. Blah blah blah yada yada.....that doesn't change anything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveHunter Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, saengd said: Blah blah blah yada yada.....that doesn't change anything. There you go again...love how you explain your position with clear and concise logic. We are done here I think. Bye Bye ???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgrahmm Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Just popped up on a Chiang Mai expats post.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgrahmm Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, pgrahmm said: Just popped up on a Chiang Mai expats post....ShenZen Edited February 9, 2020 by pgrahmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapguy Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Terrific!!!! First, Wavehunter can’t stick to the purpose of this thread, on to speculation and amateur sleuthing; then others chiming in meaninglessly and on to trading insults!!! To return to the point of this thread, there has apparently been only one case of the Corona virus thus far reported in Chiang Mai, and that is both relevant and welcome news. I suggest the amateur forensic epidemiologists and argumentative posters desist!! Please! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayaout Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Mapguy said: Terrific!!!! First, Wavehunter can’t stick to the purpose of this thread, on to speculation and amateur sleuthing; then others chiming in meaninglessly and on to trading insults!!! To return to the point of this thread, there has apparently been only one case of the Corona virus thus far reported in Chiang Mai, and that is both relevant and welcome news. I suggest the amateur forensic epidemiologists and argumentative posters desist!! Please! In theory none of the later Thai case where found in any Thai city since they don't disclose this information anymore. Hope it makes you feel more safe and relaxed. ???? Edited February 9, 2020 by Tayaout 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrasmussen Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 23 hours ago, WaveHunter said: Thanks for clarification. You are correct. I sure can't imagine sitting on one of those flights for several hours breathing recirculated air with strangers who may be infected. The concerns for picking up a bug are bad enough under normal circumstances without any outbreak to be concerned about. A lot of Chinese people are bragging on social media and providing tips on how to game the containment and get on outbound flights. Check out WeChat and you'll see what I mean. I sure won't be on one of those flights. Yes, some of the cabin air is recirculated, but it is filtered before it reenters the cabin. Also, it is continously being replenished by fresh outside air at such a high rate that the entire volume of cabin air is replaced every few minutes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveHunter Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, nrasmussen said: Yes, some of the cabin air is recirculated, but it is filtered before it reenters the cabin. Also, it is continously being replenished by fresh outside air at such a high rate that the entire volume of cabin air is replaced every few minutes. That is true and you make a good point about how bleed air works on airliners in flight, but it's still of little consequence if an infected person (of any virus) sneezes or coughs and you come in contact with those airborne droplets before they are recirculated. Bottom line, I would not want to be sitting on a flight with potentially infected people for hours, whether or not the sanitized air is being recirculated. Edited February 9, 2020 by WaveHunter 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommers Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 The fixation on air is fascinating because it is much more likely that the virus will be picked up from contaminated surfaces, and as recent study has shown almost 25% of infected persons presented with diarrhea days before showing pulmonary distress. Perhaps our esteemed Minister of Public Health should stop handing out minimally effective masks and instead offer adult diapers and butt plugs to inbound visitors. And maybe someone should remind him that the arrival of tourist farangs is in fact a vote of confidence in Thai medial services. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orang37 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 10 hours ago, WaveHunter said: As for Thailand's response, make no mistake, they are acting responsibly in protecting their citizens as well with strong measure not to let the virus inside its' borders. The cases they have treated were inside of Thailand already, and treating them was not only compassionate as you say, but in the national interest in order to contain this virus and protect its' citizens. imho, you could argue that not cancelling all in-bound flights from China ... as Laos has done ... in order, presumably, to keep the touri$t economy going ... contradicts what you say, ~o:37; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orang37 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 7 hours ago, Mapguy said: Terrific!!!! First, Wavehunter can’t stick to the purpose of this thread, on to speculation and amateur sleuthing; then ... Lighten up, Dude: this is a discussion forum with light moderation (compared to many other forums): dress code here is more beach-wear than straight-jackets. I wonder if we could merge the pinned forums "Dying at Home," and "Remembrance," with this one, creating a new pinned forum titled something like "Mortality" ? cheers, ~o:37; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveHunter Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) 20 hours ago, Mapguy said: Terrific!!!! First, Wavehunter can’t stick to the purpose of this thread, on to speculation and amateur sleuthing; then others chiming in meaninglessly and on to trading insults!!! To return to the point of this thread, there has apparently been only one case of the Corona virus thus far reported in Chiang Mai, and that is both relevant and welcome news. I suggest the amateur forensic epidemiologists and argumentative posters desist!! Please! Your snippy personal remarks directed at me are uncalled for. Everything I am posting on this thread is helpful to anyone living in Chiang Mai who has the intelligence to project forward a bit and realize that everything that is happening in China right now could very easily be happening to us here in Chiang Mai, if we fail to take the repercussions of this outbreak in China seriously. It is every person's responsibility to do this. It's only when people take a threat like this seriously that they also take precautions seriously. With a virus as virulent and transmissible as this one, personal precautions are of paramount importance, not only for the individual, but also for those he/she comes in contact with. But that will not happen if people are led to believe there is no cause for concern and that everything is under control. All I am trying to do in my posts is raise awareness of the truth, instead of buying into all the BS floating around that this outbreak is not that serious, because if you really are aware of what's really going on right now, you'll know it is very serious, not only in China, but here in Thailand, and right here in Chiang Mai as well! Nobody asks you to read my posts. If you wish to stick your head in the sand and put on a happy face like all is fine in the world, you're free to do that. Simply put me on "ignore" instead of making your intentionally inflammatory remarks. Many people however want to explore the truth, and they feel a genuine responsibility to that, not only for themselves, but for the sake of other people around them. So my posts here on this thread are entirely appropriate. When there is something specific to Chiang Mai I post it. When someone (I think it may have been you) asked which hospital in CM is the best to deal with this virus just in case...., I providing information that was detailed and helpful: "...It would probably be Nakornping Hospital. It was set up as a ‘designated receiving area’ for people with infectious diseases, the first in northern Thailand. It was also selected as the only hospital in Chiang Mai to care for Ebola patients should that need have ever been a concern back when that virus was front page news...." So please, save your self-righteous whining and personal attacks for somebody who cares! Edited February 10, 2020 by WaveHunter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante99 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 3 hours ago, WaveHunter said: personal precautions are of paramount importance, Sorry if I missed them but what are your recommendations for "personal precautions"? Real practical steps please, like what are you suggesting people should do beyond the general education you write so much about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveHunter Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Dante99 said: Sorry if I missed them but what are your recommendations for "personal precautions"? Real practical steps please, like what are you suggesting people should do beyond the general education you write so much about. I write so much about "general education" as you put it, only in response to how much misinformation I see regurgitated on this forum and in the media. So, #1 and most important: Being well informed about what is really going on with the outbreak, instead of being lulled into a false sense that all is just fine and under control through misinformation. People who believe this is not a serious viral outbreak will not take any sort of precautions seriously either, and that's not only to their detriment, but to those around them as well. With an R-Naught of around 2.6-2.8, this virus is highly infectious. With its' long incubation period, those who become infected may show no outward signs of illness yet still be capable of spreading the virus to others. Thus, one infected person can quickly cause an outbreak to occur, so anyone that downplays the potential of contracting and spreading this virus is being stupid and irresponsible...even right here in Chiang Mai. #2 Washing your hands with soap and hot water religiously everytime you come home for at least 20 seconds #3 Not underestimating hand-to-face infection and realizing that the main value of facemasks and alcohol hand sanitizers is to prevent that. Contrary to what many believed, the virus now seems to be more robust than first thought and may remain active outside a living organism for hours or even days. So surface contact with the virus may be much more likely than first thought. Even removing your shoes before entering your home is not a bad thing to do. Washing food and products you buy in the grocery store is not a bad idea either. They make special soap for washing fruit and vegetables. #4 Avoiding large gatherings of strangers, particularly in confined spaces whenever possible Truth is, there's not a whole lot you can or should really do, but these four things, and the first one in particular can make a big difference in preventing possible contact with the virus. And being properly informed about the outbreak can help yourself as well as others you care about to take these precautions seriously as well. Personally, I'm not losing sleep over this virus, not avoiding others in public, and not thinking of living in a bubble. I know the chances right now are slim for us here in Thailand...but all it takes is one infected person to start an epidemic that can quickly get out of control, so..."plan for the worst and hope for the best" is a prudent thing I think. Edited February 10, 2020 by WaveHunter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrasmussen Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 22 hours ago, WaveHunter said: That is true and you make a good point about how bleed air works on airliners in flight, but it's still of little consequence if an infected person (of any virus) sneezes or coughs and you come in contact with those airborne droplets before they are recirculated. Bottom line, I would not want to be sitting on a flight with potentially infected people for hours, whether or not the sanitized air is being recirculated. Yes, it is good advice to avoid crowded, enclosed spaces in general, if possible. However, due to the air being constantly filtered and replenished, sitting in an aeroplane is probably better (at least not worse) than sitting on a bus or in a movie theater. Also, the crew breathe the same air, day in and day out, as the passengers do, and we don't see them drop like flies. Personally, I wouldn't (currently) worry if I had to go on a flight. I would just try to keep my hands clean and do my best not to touch my face. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Samuel Smith Posted February 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 10, 2020 On 2/9/2020 at 3:23 PM, Mapguy said: To return to the point of this thread, there has apparently been only one case of the Corona virus thus far reported in Chiang Mai, and that is both relevant and welcome news. I suggest the amateur forensic epidemiologists and argumentative posters desist!! Please! What effect does our hot climate have on the virus? https://nusmedicine.nus.edu.sg/medias/news-info/2230-hot-and-humid-weather-may-end-the-novel-coronavirus 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orang37 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) Latest from WHO: clickee: in addition to the danger of over-informed auto-intoxication ... Quote “It’s slow now, but it may accelerate,” Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said during a press conference in Geneva. “So while it’s still slow there is a window of opportunity that we should use to the maximum in order to have a better outcome, and further decrease the progress and stop it.” Tedros’s warning came after health authorities in Singapore announced they had diagnosed the infection in a man with no travel history to China and no known link to other cases in Singapore. Quote During the press conference on Saturday, the head of WHO’s health emergencies program, Dr. Mike Ryan, said at this point it’s not clear why little transmission has occurred outside of China. “The question remains as to whether we’re in a lag phase and the rate of infection [outside China] may pick up, or whether we’re seeing what is the natural history of the disease. It’s way too soon to tell,” Ryan said. ... Infectious diseases expert Michael Osterholm warned that it is unwise to conclude that just because the world hasn’t yet seen outbreaks in other countries they won’t happen. It takes several generations of transmission — an imported case passed on to two others, who then infect two others and so on — before an outbreak takes off, he said. morituri te salutamus, ~o:37; Edited February 10, 2020 by orang37 teething pain after re-birth as insect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onebir Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Samuel Smith said: What effect does our hot climate have on the virus? https://nusmedicine.nus.edu.sg/medias/news-info/2230-hot-and-humid-weather-may-end-the-novel-coronavirus Quote The HKU team argued that this may be the reason warm and humid Southeast Asian countries did not have SARS outbreaks, unlike Hong Kong and Singapore where in their words, there is “intensive use of air-conditioning”. Thus, just as with influenza, the 2019-nCoV may slow down when the sun starts to shine more and the weather warms up in temperate and subtropical countries. This highlights that R0 isn't really a constant associated with the virus; it also depends on its physical and social environment. The central Chinese spring festival environment - cool/cold weather, long journeys in crowded trains, lengthy family gatherings etc - may well have boosted transmission (and estimated RO) relative to many other places, including Thailand. (It also looks like 'R0-cruise ship' is well above the overall estimate...) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orang37 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 A new entry in the list of possible primary sources of the Novel CV: pangolins. The study is not fully published yet, but some reputable scientists are indicating it could be a valuable hypothesis: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00364-2 ~o:37; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Posts containing unattributed content have been removed. Please include a valid link to the source of information when posting: 14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orang37 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 You may have seen the breaking news from China suggesting NCV has an incubation period of 24 days: if true, that is very bad news, indeed. However, said study is in pre-print now, not fully scrutinized and reacted to by the world scientific community. Here's one reputable scientist's initial reaction: click: comments by Prof Paul Hunter, Professor in Medicine, University of East Anglia ~o:37; 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChakaKhan Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Breaking news The Virus was last seen on Nimman getting a foot massage and buying durian chips... Those who enjoy mama cups should stay alert and avoid that area....incld Maya food court--lower level.. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samuttodd Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 US ER/EMS guy video Makes some good points https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g10Aj9YIkdk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samuttodd Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Think in terms of fractals when you consider the wayward Cruise ships and how they are being "handled." China is the Hospital, the Hospital is the neighborhood, the neighborhood is the planet. The virus is already here. You can not keep the ocean back with a broom, just plan on getting wet and remember to swim when the water gets over your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 On 2/10/2020 at 6:01 PM, nrasmussen said: Yes, it is good advice to avoid crowded, enclosed spaces in general, if possible. I'm usually not the paranoid type. But yesterday, while standing in line at Wing 41 to pick up my annual pass, I was a bit concerned about this guy behind me who kept yapping away and coughing. And the guy kept bumping into me as the line progressed. Yes, it was crowded with people standing in relatively close quarters, but it was outdoors. Anyways, I normally wouldn't be much concerned. But the freakin corona IS on my mind! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveHunter Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 (edited) The virus has been officially named Covid-19 by the WHO. According to the Director-General of the WHO, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus during a press conference yesterday, considerable thought went into naming the virus in order to not pick a name that might be "inaccurate or stigmatizing" https://time.com/5782284/who-name-coronavirus-covid-19/ "Stigmatizing"...? That word has a curiously political overtone to it, wouldn't you say? Just like his previous admonition that the international community should not ban travel or trade or take other actions "against" (his word) China in connection with the virus. It seems obvious where their priorities are. Instead of keeping the international community informed of important and relevant facts on the outbreak, they seem more concerned with playing word games in a subtle yet politically charged way. In essence, They are acting more like a political organization, than a health organization! Edited February 12, 2020 by WaveHunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenside Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Yes, it's a serious topic, but take a 2 minutes 11 seconds break from the gloom: Despite the awful sound, it's brilliant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fhickson Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 4 hours ago, Berkshire said: I'm usually not the paranoid type. But yesterday, while standing in line at Wing 41 to pick up my annual pass, I was a bit concerned about this guy behind me who kept yapping away and coughing. And the guy kept bumping into me as the line progressed. Yes, it was crowded with people standing in relatively close quarters, but it was outdoors. Anyways, I normally wouldn't be much concerned. But the freakin corona IS on my mind! im noticing a perculiar cough from some people as well. sounds like a really wet sick cough. or maybe i just did not take notice before now... at any rate i still clear of these guys. one guy started hacking in the 7-11 and i waited in the isle until he checkout so let things dissipate a little. it seems to be men mainly. its not rude to avoid these people, just a safety thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricTh Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 (edited) On 2/9/2020 at 12:33 PM, WaveHunter said: No offence intended but your argument makes very little sense to me. America is protecting its' people from a very dangerous viral outbreak and which is (irregardless of what many think) a very real and present danger for the entire global community! Really? If you are at the receiving end of any virus and people shut their doors on you, you would be saying a different tune. Did Canada ban China? You might want to watch video below, this guy has a good analysis on what is actually going on. Edited February 12, 2020 by EricTh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canthai55 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 I can't believe the paranoia and fear that this virus is causing. News full of horror stories - unfounded - and scare tactics. This is not the first corona virus, and it will not be the last. Get Over It. Odds: Pretty good. What we may be seeing “is the emergence of a new coronavirus … that could very well become another seasonal pathogen that causes pneumonia,” said infectious disease expert Michael Osterholm of the University of Minnesota. It would be “more than a cold” and less than SARS: “The only other pathogen I can compare it to is seasonal influenza.” https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/04/two-scenarios-if-new-coronavirus-isnt-contained/ Worst case scenario - another seasonal flu. If you ain't very young, very old, or have a compromised immune system, you will get the flu. End Of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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