Koh Samui: Build a second airport for budget airlines, much better than a bridge, says MP

[Airbagwill]

2 hours ago, No1Farang said:

No such international regulation.  Suvarnabhumi and Don Mueang are 30 kms apart and that is just one local example. And another example, this time in the UK, you'll find London Heathrow only 9 km from Northolt airport.

Apparently it's to do with air traffic control and NEW airports

[No1Farang]

33 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Apparently it's to do with air traffic control and NEW airports

Not so. There is no Air Traffic Control reasons why airports have to be a set distance apart. Obviously it is better if they are but airspace procedures overcome any proximity problems. The reasons why you cant have another airport on Samui are to do with finding a suitable amount of land and the immense influence that the Bangkok Airways owning family have over such matters

Edited February 12, 2020 by No1Farang

[Catoni]

14 hours ago, yogavnture said:

the reality is that thais want tourists with money not poor folk its just reality. but cambodia will welcome you 

I’ve spent time in both Thailand and Cambodia and have friends in both countries. And, I’ve lived cheaply in both countries and still felt welcomed.

      Just because some of us live cheaply in our old age and avoid the bar scene doesn’t necessarily make us Cheap Charlies. I do give to charities in Cambodia when I’m able. 

[pennine]

22 hours ago, robertson468 said:

I can see a "brown envelope" being bunged at some official to block this idea, sadly.  Quite a few Thai people on the Island had been petitioning the Government for a long time to address this rediculous situation.  It costs less to fly from Bangkok to India than it costs to fly Bangkok to Koh Samui!

Bangkok to Singapore fare half the price to Samui and twice the distance.

[khunPer]

16 hours ago, ronaldo0 said:

Highly unlikely to happen and thankfully so as I like sitting in my pool in the south with no noise and driving around the roads that are well maintained and quiet compared to north ????

And if it happen – either bridge connection at south, or a 2nd airport in the suggested southern field – you might be living similar to us northern folks...

[khunPer]

13 hours ago, impulse said:

Nothing wrong with budget travelers, and there are plenty of places in Thailand that still look like they did back in the '80s.  

 

Samui isn't one of them.

No, Samui is still a destination for many a backpacker travelling on a budget, but they do not arrive by air; they might even not wish to use air transport, even it's cheap, because backpack-travelling is a life-style, often with surface transportation only when reaching the major destination, which could be South East Asia.

 

I have old-time backpacker friends that have been coming to Samui every year since before the frist airfield was established, and still now they choose the night-sleeper train ride from Bangkok to Surat Thani, and transfer by bus and so-called "express boat" – which is as slow as a car-ferry – because it's part of their life-style; however by age, and enough funds, some nights are spend in nice resort's aircon bungalow by the pool, and home-trip up to Bangkok made with Bangkok Airways; and the wouldn't even consider Air Asia from Surat Thani, it's a question of a relaxed home-trip after an exhausting backpacker trip; you know, they got older...????

 

As backpack traveller you can take your ride down south by bus or train, and cross cheap by either car-ferry or boat – or even the slow night boat – ride the songthaew to one of the preferred beach villages, and still find a 299 baht a night bungalow, you can for example find them in Bang Por – of course backpacker style, so might be fan only and no hot water, just like is was before the hi-so tourists arrived at Samui by expensive airplanes – and dine from street kitchens for 50 baht a meal including free drinking water, or in a local restaurant having a meal for even less than 100 baht, but excluding water.

 

If you wish to do it even cheaper you can find a backpacker hostel with shared rooms and pay for the bed only; I see 199 baht a night signs – numerous folks still do that, including many of those heading for the monthly Full Moon Party at neighboring Koh Phangan – travelling on a budget somewhere between 500 baht and 1,000 baht a day, especially if two are sharing a bungalow, is indeed possible on Samui...????

[khunPer]

6 hours ago, ronaldo0 said:

Last I heard was it was 30km distance and if you draw a line from the one that’s there to anywhere 30km I think the island isn’t big enough as it’s only 68km or something all the way round the ring road.

Thanks for your facts.

 

The Ring Road around the island is just around 50 kilometers long – I think it's hardly 52 if measured correctly – the distance from the present runway at USM "Big Buddha Airport" to the land in question for a new 2nd airport's runway at south is just under 16 kilometer measured in a straight line on Google Map...

 

[khunPer]

4 hours ago, No1Farang said:

Not so. There is no Air Traffic Control reasons why airports have to be a set distance apart. Obviously it is better if they are but airspace procedures overcome any proximity problems. The reasons why you cant have another airport on Samui are to do with finding a suitable amount of land and the immense influence that the Bangkok Airways owning family have over such matters

It's been reported in the news several times that Samui is restricted due to being an air traffic transitional area. Originally (might be later than when opened i late 1980ies) the airport was restricted to 36 operations a day (24 hours period, but the airport is closed between 10 am and 6 am); later, a few years ago extended to 50 operations a day. Someone posted about a year ago that it's even a higher number now, but that news have missed my eyes. This, air traffic transition, was in the news mentioned as an official limit for a 2nd airport not being possible on Samui.

[Tropicalevo]

On 2/11/2020 at 12:03 PM, KhunBENQ said:

Resistance will be strong.

It's a money machine.

7000 or more for a domestic return flight from Bangkok.

Other routes are less than half the price.

 

A former work mate wants to come to Samui in June.

I am uncertain whether I should throw out money and go meet him.

 

Kill more unspoiled nature to make room for a second airport on a 228 km² (88 sq mi) island?

If you have the time, flying to Suratthani is much cheaper, but it adds 5 hours to the journey. More than 50% of the guests that I welcome now travel this route.

[Tropicalevo]

21 hours ago, Burma Bill said:

Whether a new road bridge or a new budget airport, it will be a slap in the face for Bangkok Airways and its over-priced monopoly!

Bangkok Airways do not have a monopoly any more than you do if you own a bike.

They own the land and built the airport privately.

At the last count, at least 6 other airlines fly into Samui and have done for years.

However, their flights are horrifically overpriced but Samui is what it is because of them.

Personally, I hate Bandit Airlines. They used to be a good airline with decent food but now they are expensive and average.

[KhunBENQ]

 

6 minutes ago, Tropicalevo said:

at the last count, at least 6 other airlines fly into Samui and have done for years.

Really, how do I find them?

Checked for yesterday and today and the only genuine non PG flight is SilkAir from Singapore.

Of course PG has code-shares with many foreign airlines which appear like Emirates, Qatar, etc.pp.

[Airbagwill]

14 minutes ago, Tropicalevo said:

Bangkok Airways do not have a monopoly

What a silly thing to say! They most certainly do!

[Airbagwill]

15 minutes ago, Tropicalevo said:

At the last count, at least 6 other airlines fly into Samui and have done for years.

Again another ridiculous comment - they own the airport and therefore have a monopoly on the landings

[White Christmas13]

On 2/11/2020 at 3:31 PM, spidermike007 said:

Kudos to Ravee for calling out the BA mafia. For many years they have been discussing alternatives to that abusive monopoly. An airport near DonSak was discussed for a long time. Also one in Koh Phangan. I think another one on Samui, or Don Sak is a great idea. Leave Phangan alone. It is a gorgeous island that would be wrecked by an airport. 

 

Regardless of how much BA invested in the land, granting them an eternal monopoly on Samui was beyond ridiculous and no doubt was a result of high corruption. A 20 year monopoly would have been reasonable. I can fly from Los Angeles to Miami (4400 km.) for what it costs to fly under 300km. from Samui to BKK.  

Same in Australia

 

Perth-Bangkok 5340 km  284 AUD

Perth-Port Hedland 1630 km  684 AUD

[drvin]

9 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

I"m told that under international airline regulations you are not allowed to have airports within 50km of each other ...So building another airport on Samui is a non-starter.

 

It also seems nonsensical to cram more people on the island just to meet the demands of those who have taken part in the untramelled overdevelopment of this blighted iisland.

not sure about that.  JFK is 17km from LGA

[ronaldo0]

2 hours ago, khunPer said:

Thanks for your facts.

 

The Ring Road around the island is just around 50 kilometers long – I think it's hardly 52 if measured correctly – the distance from the present runway at USM "Big Buddha Airport" to the land in question for a new 2nd airport's runway at south is just under 16 kilometer measured in a straight line on Google Map...

 

To close to my pool so I’m a gonna say no ! ????

[No1Farang]

Samui airport has almost certainly got restrictions on the number of movements and the times you can fly.  These would be political restrictions for example not flying through the night to alleviate noise and the maximum movements, which could be 50, to fit with the so called environment off the islands.  These are not operational or Air Traffic Control restrictions.  They are political or planning restrictions. For example Mumbai is the busiest single runway airport in the world having once achieved 878 movements in a day.  So 50 movements a day is hardly worth mentioning operationally wise. Obviously to achieve that you got to have some nice taxiways and lots of terminals.

 

At the moment the biggest restriction on increasing the number of aircraft movements at Samui is the terminal size.

 

In my previous post about the possibility of a second airport I forgot to mention that the idea is just plane stupid.  A new airport would be hugely expensive, decimate the countryside and be a waste of time.  Far better would to be to use that money to pay off the Bangkok Airways family, remove the monopoly, build another terminal and allow Air Asia in at the same costs that they have when flying to any other airport in Thailand. 

[gearbox]

22 hours ago, baansgr said:

Its the budget travelers that made Samui so popular...and back packing at any age is an experience, rather than being chauffered around to 5 star hotels. I can get luxury anywhere but give me value for money and meeting interesting people any day.

The budget travellers are still here, afaik only 10-15 percent of the rooms are in the higher end segment. There are heaps of Russians right now which are coming via Surat Thani. Most of the Tao/Phangan backpackers spend a few days too.

[gearbox]

23 hours ago, khunPer said:

Unfortunately, that is true – I believe it's called "quality tourists" – the same trend is beginning in Europe, where they some place tax tourists, to make sure to limit the number to those that can afford to pay.

Every country wants wealthy "quality tourists" to splash cash, but they are in short supply - demand is much higher. Same as the Thai women - many want quality farangs but few get one.

Edited February 12, 2020 by gearbox

[gearbox]

4 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

 

Really, how do I find them?

Checked for yesterday and today and the only genuine non PG flight is SilkAir from Singapore.

Of course PG has code-shares with many foreign airlines which appear like Emirates, Qatar, etc.pp.

I've seen somewhat reasonable rates to fly in/out of Samui only on international, not domestic tickets. I got one way ticket from Mumbai to Samui via Singapore with SA this April for around 5600 baht - more or less the same price to fly Bangkok Air from Bangkok. In May I have a return flight to Europe with Etihad, the flight from Samui was only $200 AUD more expensive than from Bangkok, this would make the Samui-Bangkok segment around 2000 baht which is OK price.

[Tropicalevo]

13 hours ago, No1Farang said:

Samui airport has almost certainly got restrictions on the number of movements and the times you can fly.  These would be political restrictions for example not flying through the night to alleviate noise and the maximum movements, which could be 50, to fit with the so called environment off the islands.  These are not operational or Air Traffic Control restrictions.  They are political or planning restrictions. For example Mumbai is the busiest single runway airport in the world having once achieved 878 movements in a day.  So 50 movements a day is hardly worth mentioning operationally wise. Obviously to achieve that you got to have some nice taxiways and lots of terminals.

 

At the moment the biggest restriction on increasing the number of aircraft movements at Samui is the terminal size.

 

 

The number of movements is a restriction placed on all private airports, of which Samui is one. I believe that the restriction is because private airports do not have all of the technical facilities that government airports have.

The original restriction was 36 movements but this was increased to 50 some years ago to allow other airlines in.

The length of the runway is another restriction at Samui. It has been extended once to allow the Airbus to operate here, but it is probably not economically viable to extend the runway again and do we really want bigger aeroplanes?

As I live very close to the flightpath, I am happy with what we have. (NIMBY.)

 

[Tropicalevo]

16 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

 

Really, how do I find them?

Checked for yesterday and today and the only genuine non PG flight is SilkAir from Singapore.

Of course PG has code-shares with many foreign airlines which appear like Emirates, Qatar, etc.pp.

From memory, HongKong Air, Tibet Airlines, China Airlines, Silk Air all fly to Samui except that China has put a ban on the Chinese flights for now. So if you looked yesterday - you  would not see them. Also - they do not fly every day. Some are only 4/5 times per week.

I know this for a fact because I have had to send transport to meet guests on these flights and no, they are not PG code shares.

Thai only stopped flying here last year because PG allowed code shares with them and that was cheaper than flying their own planes here.

 

[Tropicalevo]

17 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

What a silly thing to say! They most certainly do!

Accuracy is not your strong point is it?

Try looking up

EU 2807 (Chengdu Airlines)

TV6005 (Tibet Airlines) flights suspended by orders of the Chinese Government but they have been flying here for a few years

MI772 (Silk Air)

to mention but a few.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Tropicalevo

[thai006]

build or not   

 

not my problem i will never go this island   i prefer south island with no tourist yet 

[PoorSucker]

On 2/11/2020 at 8:38 AM, Jane Dough said:

Goodness! how things have changed since I stayed on Chaweng in 1982 for 25 baht - myself and a friend shared a bungalow that cost 50 baht. It was wonderful. 

 

Mind you I wouldn't go there now if you paid me.

 

Rooster

I have a Swedish friend that moved to Samui 1978.

He thinks everything is better now. 

Try living in a 50 baht bungalow for 40 years. 

[PoorSucker]

47 minutes ago, thai006 said:

build or not   

 

not my problem i will never go this island   i prefer south island with no tourist yet 

I can recommend Koh Taen south of Samui for that. 

[PoorSucker]

On 2/11/2020 at 2:51 PM, yogavnture said:

you cant be serious building a bridge from the mainland??????omg u know how far that is.

Off course.

[khunPer]

24 minutes ago, PoorSucker said:

I can recommend Koh Taen south of Samui for that. 

–And there are no soi dogs either, as there are no dogs on Koh Tan...????

Quote

Koh Tan is known throughout the region as the island with no dogs. According to local legend, any dog that has been brought to live there, has quickly gone insane, but luckily the locals seem not to suffer the same fate.

 

[Airbagwill]

20 hours ago, Tropicalevo said:

Accuracy is not your strong point is it?

Try looking up

EU 2807 (Chengdu Airlines)

TV6005 (Tibet Airlines) flights suspended by orders of the Chinese Government but they have been flying here for a few years

MI772 (Silk Air)

to mention but a few.

You really don't get it? Bkk Air have a monopoly on the AIRPORT....anyone landing on the island has to pay them and them alone...There is no competition it is therefore a monopoly.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Airbagwill

[khunPer]

15 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

You really don't get it? Bkk Air have a monopoly on the AIRPORT....anyone landing on the island has to pay them and them alone...There is no competition it is therefore a monopoly.

Either all airports are monopoly because they have an owner; or that anyone that pays the fees can use an airport; the latter is the case for USM, Big Buddha Airport on Koh Samui.