Uh-oh. USAA BAnk demands my physical address

[JimmyJ]

On 2/19/2020 at 2:10 PM, lopburi3 said:

Only Thai address - no issues getting debit cards mailed here - never tried mutual funds but believe that is blocked - have no clue what 2FN is but only number they have is landline.  I log on with password and PIN.  On 21st they will require code that sent to email per recent email.  

"...only number they have is landline."

 

Thai landline #?

Edited February 24, 2020 by JimmyJ

[lopburi3]

Yes TOT landline.  

17 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

"...only number they have is landline."

 

Thai landline #?

 

[JimGant]

Quote

National Financial Services LLC (NFS), the custodian for your brokerage account, has designated you as a non-U.S. customer, determined by the mailing address on your account being outside the United States,  holding an ineligible core position which may include a Money Market Mutual Fund or FDIC-insured bank sweep.

Ok, this is what I got when I changed my USAA mailing address to Thailand. At the same time, I changed my physical address to that of a friend's in Texas, thinking physical address is what triggers the Patriot Act re investment actions. Nope. Apparently it's the mailing address that triggers Patriot Act requirements, like, now cashing in IRA proceeds for RMDs will have an automatic 10% withholding. No big deal -- I can adjust my EFTPS withholdings to accommodate.

 

But what will become interesting is that, in a couple of months, my USAA Investments will be taken over by Schwab. Now, my account with Schwab uses my CMRA  mailing address -- and when I recently tried to change it to my Thai address, I got a 'no can do' because my Schwab account is a domestic account. So, will be interesting on how all of this sorts out. I just might lose my Schwab Debit/ATM card, with if fee free bennies for international transactions. But, so be it, as these days I get all my baht thru SWiFT or TransferWise, so the Schwab ATM card is no longer the golden attraction it once was.

[OneZero]

JimGant quote: "But what will become interesting is that, in a couple of months, my USAA Investments will be taken over by Schwab."

Jim,

1. Do you know why USAA is doing this? 

2.  What are the implications for us, pro & con, for our investment accounts being moved to Schwab?

[Pib]

Deleted...posted in wrong thread.

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by Pib

[JimGant]

16 hours ago, OneZero said:

1. Do you know why USAA is doing this? 

2.  What are the implications for us, pro & con, for our investment accounts being moved to Schwab?

1. I'm sure 1.8 billion in cash had something to do with it, plus the headwinds are now increasing,  with all the big boys going fee free. Just hope some of this ends up in my USAA Subscriber Savings Account.....

2. I don't trade anymore, as all my investment accounts are now just IRA repositories, with annual RMDs the only activity. My interest will be how Schwab integrates my USAA account with my existing domestic Schwab account, since USAA now has me with an international address. Worst case: I lose my fee free Schwab ATM card. But, as previously said, no big deal.

[MalibuJay]

On 2/18/2020 at 9:09 PM, Pib said:

After doing the update I logged off and back on again to check out my ibanking capability to see if I could still do things like add an external transfer acct, wire transfer, doing an ACH transfer, open a CD, etc.,--and I could.  However, when checking to see if I could open a mutual fund I couldn't...the screen indicated I couldn't due to my address--probably their way of saying you can't open mutual funds with them if having a foreign address.  That's fine....I don't have or plan to have mutual funds with USAA.  I only did this mutual fund check since someone told me before when they had a foreign address onfile with USAA they couldn't open mutual funds with USAA due to the foreign address. 

I'm pretty sure that the prohibition on owning mutual funds has to do with the complexities of tax withholding that it would create to have people with foreign residences holding the fund.  If all holders are US residents, they can apply the simple US withholding rules, which basically bypass all withholding as long as you've submitted a W-4.  If you are a foreigner, the game changes: you don't get to wait until the end of the year to file your return in one lump sum and pay whatever net taxes are due, and you don't get to bypass withholding. For you, withholding has to be deducted at the time the payment is made and sent to the IRS withing 24 hours, since the IRS doesn't have an easy and practical way of getting money back from a foreign resident and/or bank if you decide later on that you don't want to pay your US taxes. They might also have to do withholding on behalf of the foreign country in some cases, particularly if they have an office in that country, which gives the foreign country some leverage over them. So if Thailand thought that they had a right to some of the income your earned in the fund due to your full-time residence there, that might be a problem, though in reality it's the UK and Japan that have traditionally forced brokerages to do that sort of thing and not the smaller jurisdictions like Thailand. The world of non-resident withholding can get very complicated, particularly for mutual funds.  It's pretty common to block mutual fund ownership for non-US residents with accounts at US financial institutions.

[MalibuJay]

23 hours ago, JimGant said:

But what will become interesting is that, in a couple of months, my USAA Investments will be taken over by Schwab. Now, my account with Schwab uses my CMRA  mailing address -- and when I recently tried to change it to my Thai address, I got a 'no can do' because my Schwab account is a domestic account. So, will be interesting on how all of this sorts out. I just might lose my Schwab Debit/ATM card, with if fee free bennies for international transactions. But, so be it, as these days I get all my baht thru SWiFT or TransferWise, so the Schwab ATM card is no longer the golden attraction it once was.

You may lose your Schwab Bank account altogether.  If you have an IRA account at Schwab, they will also flag it as foreign and require a mandatory 10% withholding on all Distributions, which is an IRS rule for all non-US residents. Opening a International account at Schwab would require a $25,000 minimum and wouldn't allow you to have an associated Schwab Bank or IRA account, and wouldn't allow you to own mutual funds.  I had quite a battle with them until I closed the IRA account to defuse that issue and pointed out that someone can be a part-time foreign resident and a part-time US resident each year, which should generally make you US for tax purposes if you spend at least 30 days a year there.  Their systems are designed to make a black or white, US or foreign, classification without the sophistication to handle anything in between.  They may ask you for a US utility bill if you want to prove you're US-based.  Schwab can be messy with this kind of thing.  I've managed to reach an uneasy truce with them and keep the Schwab Bank account after closing the IRA account, but I quit using it on a regular basis.  I keep it now just to use the debit card when I'm traveling short-term on vacation in another country.  I don't use it at all in Thailand.  Now I do direct deposit.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

23 hours ago, JimGant said:

my USAA Investments will be taken over by Schwab.

 

And I just got an email saying E*Trade is being bought by Morgan Stanley.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/morgan-stanley-etrade-purchase-will-help-it-reach-new-demographics-2020-2

 

Quote

 

The Wall Street giant has agreed to buy the online brokerage firm for $13 billion in an all-stock takeover, marking the biggest acquisition by a US bank since the financial crisis, as reported by The Wall Street Journal.
 

 

The transaction is expected to close in the fourth quarter of this year. Under the deal, E*Trade will keep its brand, as well as its branches and ad campaigns. Morgan Stanley expects $150 million in cost cuts from using E*Trade's low-cost deposits to replace some of its existing funding of loans.
 

E*Trade boasts 5 million retail customers and $360 billion in customer assets, and it also operates an online banking service. Meanwhile, Morgan Stanley has 15,500 human advisors who cater to millionaires, and $2.7 trillion in customer assets.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

43 minutes ago, MalibuJay said:

Opening a International account at Schwab would require a $25,000 minimum and wouldn't allow you to have an associated Schwab Bank or IRA account, and wouldn't allow you to own mutual funds.  I had quite a battle with them until I closed the IRA account to defuse that issue and pointed out that someone can be a part-time foreign resident and a part-time US resident each year, which should generally make you US for tax purposes if you spend at least 30 days a year there.

 

How/why did the issue of your residency status arise with Schwab?

 

BTW, here is what Schwab has said in the past about how they determine a client's residency, and it does appear to be driven by the accountholder's reported mailing address, not listed physical address:

 

 

 

[MalibuJay]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

How/why did the issue of your residency status arise with Schwab?

 

BTW, here is what Schwab has said in the past about how they determine a client's residency, and it does appear to be driven by the accountholder's reported mailing address, not listed physical address:

 

 

 

In my case, I didn't use my voice password for over a year and I forgot it.  I thought I had it written down offline but I couldn't find that either.  That became an issue when I needed to get a new debit card for the Schwab Bank account due to fraud.  Apparently once you set up a voice password as your verification method, nothing else matters anymore. You are not allowed to answer security questions or do anything else to verify your identity.  I had to submit a notarized form to get the voice password reset, and since I was in Thailand, I had to go to the US local consulate. That affidavit from Thailand set off bells for some officious Compliance officer and I awoke one morning to an email telling me that they were closing my US account in 30 days unless I provided proof of US residency.

So my unusual situation brought them face to face with the issue, probably due to manual handling of that affidavit, whereas otherwise they didn't seem to be on the lookout for a foreign residence and aren't automating their search for them, at least not yet.  I had been doing regular ATM withdrawals in Thailand without triggering any problems.  I have a friend however who made a habit of logging into his Fidelity account without masking his Thai ISP using a VPN, and then one day Fidelity intervened and forced him to switch to a foreign account, so they were monitoring ISP addresses.  I don't think Schwab is policing ISPs yet, but they could. And if they wanted to verify that your mailing address is truly residential and not a P.O. Box, I suppose they could start that at any time too, like USAA apparently did. For now, if you're laying low with a US mailing address, you're probably OK.

Based on my experience, however, I would say:  1) never let them know that you live overseas; 2) if you do have to deal with them from overseas, allow them to assume that you are on a vacation trip and will be returning to the US soon; 3) always use a VPN with a US city IP address, preferably somewhere near your mailing address; 3) if possible, have a US phone number they can call you on that, again, preferably has a prefix that is consistent with your mailing address.  I have a Skype number from a US city that rings on my computer and that is the phone number listed on my account.  When I finally got the debit card issue straightened out, there was a point in the process when they made a robocall to that number to verify that I was in the US. I was able to pass that test.  Now if I ever need to call Client Services, I always call them via that number which is set to show the US city caller ID. That has also come in handy.  I have had them say to me, "I see that you are calling from your US number" and then assume that I am in fact in the US. 
 

Edited February 25, 2020 by MalibuJay

[Langsuan Man]

Don't be lulled into a false sense of security using a VPN, financial institutions are wise to that method of masking your identity.  And they take using a VPN, no matter why as  prima facie evidence of hiding your real location

 

This came home to me the other day when I tried to change method of payment for my US PayPal account.  A new credit card funding source was continually blocked, until I logged back into PayPal without a VPN, and it took instantly 

[ThaiBunny]

Just now, Langsuan Man said:

Don't be lulled into a false sense of security using a VPN, financial institutions are wise to that method of masking your identity.  And they take using a VPN, no matter why as  prima facie evidence of hiding your real location

So they have all the IP addresses that every VPN provider uses? 

[Langsuan Man]

10 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

So they have all the IP addresses that every VPN provider uses? 

No,  they can tell electronically that it is a VPN, they don't need to know which provider

[freeman01]

2 hours ago, Langsuan Man said:

No,  they can tell electronically that it is a VPN, they don't need to know which provider

Hmm how ? I was thinking they use a black list of IP from known VPN providers, or perhaps a whitelist of us residential IP ?

Like if you get an amazon VPS located in a US datacenter and set up your own VPN they couldn't know ?

[freeman01]

I think all the financial institution around the world are going crazy with KYC requirements as they get pressured with huge fines by governments if they don't.

 

End game is likely to make you pay more in existing or future tax in a way or another.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

16 hours ago, MalibuJay said:

Based on my experience, however, I would say:  1) never let them know that you live overseas; 2) if you do have to deal with them from overseas, allow them to assume that you are on a vacation trip and will be returning to the US soon; 3) always use a VPN with a US city IP address, preferably somewhere near your mailing address; 3) if possible, have a US phone number they can call you on that, again, preferably has a prefix that is consistent with your mailing address.

 

Thanks for the background explanation above... All the things you list here are exactly the protocols I have long followed, and rarely have any issues as a result. It's very good advice, IMHO.

 

As for Schwab, two comments:

--using their physical keychain fob token (code generator) along with your regular log-in ID and password helps alleviate a lot of their security concerns. You can have the same code generating process without the physical fob by using Symantec's VIP Access mobile app, which works well with and can be integrated into your Schwab log-in.

 

--the only voice password I'm familiar with re Schwab is not in place of a login ID or password, but instead is used for when you call them on the phone. In order to pass security for the phone call, you can set it up ahead of time by doing a voice recording over the phone where you say "With Schwab, my voice is my password." And then from then on, when you call in, you just repeat that phrase, and their system clears you to go ahead and talk with an agent without having to go thru all kinds of personal verification Q and As.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, Langsuan Man said:

Don't be lulled into a false sense of security using a VPN, financial institutions are wise to that method of masking your identity.

 

I have an always-on U.S. VPN connection at home. And for MANY years, I've used it all the time for all my financial (and other) online business. And never has doing so created any problems for me, nor have I ever had any problems with any financial entity over that method of access.

 

In fact, long ago, the only time I ever had any problem with any financial entity was back long long ago when I happened to NOT use a VPN by mistake, and ended up getting temporarily locked out of one of my brokerage accounts because their system recognized and flagged my log-in as coming from a foreign country.

 

Overall, for an expat, the advantages of using a home country VPN for one's various online dealings FAR FAR outweigh any rare, atypical problems that might occur.

 

 

[cmarshall]

5 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

So they have all the IP addresses that every VPN provider uses? 

Sure they do.  All VPN providers are granted blocks of ips to distribute to customers, just like all ISPs.  There are databases that make matching an ip with the vpn provider a trivial lookup.  Same thing with CMRAs.

 

Only way to avoid that is to have a private vpn server setup in a friendly, residential location in the US.  As far as I know, that cannot be identified.  Setting it up requires some technical skills however.

[cmarshall]

52 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Thanks for the background explanation above... All the things you list here are exactly the protocols I have long followed, and rarely have any issues as a result. It's very good advice, IMHO.

 

Yes, it's good advice for the moment, but the technical advantage we now enjoy to simulate a presence back home is likely to vanish as soon as there is an incentive for the financial institutions to know more about us.  For instance, the browser in your home computer can provide accurate location even though the PC does not have GPS hardware.  That location function might not be turned on now or you might be refusing popup requests for location, but at any point the bank's website can refuse to log you in if your browser does not provide them with location.  Smartphones do have GPS and some banking apps are now insisting that it be turned on for certain transactions.  USAA's app does this, for example.

 

Just imagine the situation after the next 9/11 incident.  Panic ensues.  A new Patriot Act is hastily passed might have been written by Stalin.  They could locate me just be reviewing my "card present" credit card transactions.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

36 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

For instance, the browser in your home computer can provide accurate location even though the PC does not have GPS hardware. 

 

That's easy to manage/control thru Geolocation extensions that are easy to use on both Chrome and Firefox. Location Guard is my personal favorite, is easy to use, and 100% effective.

 

There are similar apps for Android phones that override/change their built-in GPS capabilities. FakeGPS happens to be my personal favorite there, and likewise is very easy and effective.

 

All of the above is easy to manage with a bit of tech know-how.

 

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

59 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

Only way to avoid that is to have a private vpn server setup in a friendly, residential location in the US.  As far as I know, that cannot be identified.  Setting it up requires some technical skills however.

 

I've never found the need to go beyond using one of a couple different quality paid (not free) commercial VPN providers that have their own easy to use apps and allow a range of different server city connections.

 

But if someone DID need to go beyond that for some reason, at least several of the better known, larger commercial VPN providers these days are offering custom/personal VPN IPs for an added price where you're issued one IP that's yours and yours only to use, and will get updated if you ever have any problems with it. Others are offering what they call "residential IPs" where apparently they're getting blocks of IPs from the same ranges used by local ISPs/cable providers.

 

So, as with many things, there's lots of different ways to skin a cat.

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[cmarshall]

6 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I've never found the need to go beyond using one of a couple different quality paid (not free) commercial VPN providers that have their own easy to use apps and allow a range of different server city connections.

I have never actually found the need to use a private vpn server over a paid service, but then if you or I had found the need it might well have been to late to fix it.  I have already had the experience of having my Fidelity accounts shut down, because of a leak of my Thailand address after which there was no possible remedy to avoid account closure.

 

I am aware that there are apps to fake geolocation, but it's the principle that the financial institutions, if sufficiently motivated, can increase their demands for information up to some point that we can no longer fake.  They can, for instance, demand a utility bill showing a US address as part of an annual re-verification process.  Of course, the banks don't want to do that, but they don't really want to perform such a verification even only at account opening.  Nevertheless, if required by a new Super-Patriot Act, for example, they could and would do so.

 

So, while the digital environment provides useful tools for us to simulate a US presence, it is also collecting mountains of data on us that could be used to defeat such measures.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

So, while the digital environment provides useful tools for us to simulate a US presence, it is also collecting mountains of data on us that could be used to defeat such measures.

 

Still alive and kickin here after more than a decade. Not lost any existing accounts along the way, other than ones I voluntarily chose to close.

 

Yes, things could get more intrusive/unwieldy in the future. But for right now, with the right tools and precautions, I consider it to be manageable.

 

 

[JimmyJ]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

.

 

There are similar apps for Android phones that override/change their built-in GPS capabilities. FakeGPS happens to be my personal favorite there, and likewise is very easy and effective.

 

 

 

 

Fake GPS by Byte Rev?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

Fake GPS by Byte Rev?

 

The one with the yellow and black icon that has a small image of a phone -- Fake GPS by Lexa apps

 

Ya, there are quite a few different Android apps that are very similarly named.

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[MalibuJay]

4 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

--the only voice password I'm familiar with re Schwab is not in place of a login ID or password, but instead is used for when you call them on the phone. In order to pass security for the phone call, you can set it up ahead of time by doing a voice recording over the phone where you say "With Schwab, my voice is my password." And then from then on, when you call in, you just repeat that phrase, and their system clears you to go ahead and talk with an agent without having to go thru all kinds of personal verification Q and As.

 

The verbal password was something different from the standard "With Schwab, my voice is my password" voice ID.  If fact it superseded the voice ID along with everything else.  I had previously used "At Schwab, my voice is my password" and they wouldn't let me fall back to that when I forgot the verbal password.  I never understood why they thought they verbal password was especially secure. If you were logging in from a public place using that technique, everyone within earshot would know your password.  One of the customer service reps suggested that I switch to that method when I was on a phone call with them. Maybe they've discontinued it now, I don't know. I wouldn't recommend using it, especially for overseas folks: if you're in the US, you can go into a branch office to reset it, but if you're overseas, you'll need a notarized affidavit and that could create a problem, as it did in my case.

 

The day may come at Schwab when they tighten up their procedures about this and implement more stringent, and even automated, checking for foreign residents, but for now the biggest risk seems to be letting it slip when you're dealing with the humans there. Just be aware that you need to keep it quiet. Masking technology geolocations when you can would be another prudent step.  VPNs still seem to work quite well at the moment. There are probably quite a few US residents who access the Schwab site using a VPN as well. They're not going to want to have to ask every VPN user for a utility bill.  It's not necessarily foolproof and it may not work forever, but for now it's another level of protection that can still make a difference.

Edited February 26, 2020 by MalibuJay

[JimGant]

A little off subject, but I got a VPN to watch Amazon Prime video in Thailand. I got the top of the line, per this link:

https://www.comparitech.com/blog/vpn-privacy/best-vpn-amazon-prime/

 

Not cheap, but well worth it for me. Only had a couple of times where Amazon won the game with Express VPN. Only had to do a brief chat with Express Vpn to find a new city to link to. I'm sure Jeff Bezos would view this with a wink and a nod, as he wouldn't get my business if I couldn't find a workaround to get his full US video package in Thailand. I'm sure Amazon gains nothing from having their content blocked abroad.....so no incentive to block VPNs with their full muscle.

Edited February 26, 2020 by JimGant

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

33 minutes ago, MalibuJay said:

 

The verbal password was something different from the standard "With Schwab, my voice is my password" voice ID.  If fact it superseded the voice ID along with everything else. 

 

I've been with them for years... But I've never heard or read anything about them having a verbal password.. other than the call in one we're both aware of...  So, that whole thing is news to me!

 

How does it work?  How/where do you use it?

 

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

16 minutes ago, JimGant said:

A little off subject, but I got a VPN to watch Amazon Prime video in Thailand. I got the top of the line, per this link:

https://www.comparitech.com/blog/vpn-privacy/best-vpn-amazon-prime/

 

Not cheap, but well worth it for me. Only had a couple of times where Amazon won the game with Express VPN. Only had to do a brief chat with Express Vpn to find a new city to link to. I'm sure Jeff Bezos would view this with a wink and a nod, as he wouldn't get my business if I couldn't find a workaround to get his full US video package in Thailand. I'm sure Amazon gains nothing from having their content blocked abroad.....so no incentive to block VPNs with their full muscle.

 

Amazon Prime Video has been pretty aggressive about blocking VPN access lately, and in particular after they redid the technology behind access their content via their website. Even moreso than Netflix, I'd say...

 

But that said, usually with EVPN and a few others, there are at least some server locations/IPs that will get the job done... There are, however, some VPN services that are totally locked out by Amazon Prime Video and will admit it... if you query them directly about it (though they rarely admit it on their websites).