Why do Thais only understand words pronounced and intoned perfectly?

[Captain Monday]

"Give me some water" (US equivalent of received pronunciation)

or "Gimme' some WA-duh" (eg., New Jersey/Ebonics) No matter where I go in the country these will be 

understood 99 percent of the time although they sound different. So recently I called PEA about my electric account on the customer service line to a girl who speaks English just fine. The question came up in what area of Chiang Mai? Well there are only so many districts Samoueng, Nong Hai,

Mai Rim, so the contest is well narrowed down. My response. Mueang(เมือง ). The English speaker could not understand. I know what this word sounds like to me I have been trying to say it for 20 years or so. I ended up having to search for my account number. I gave up studying Thai for several reasons numero uno the inability to make myself understood. I had one experience trying to order "water" and failed in Hawaii. The Korean mama-san in the bar did not know what water is as she learned English from working near US bases and I had to order WA-duh which she understood.

[Dominion]

If you want people to respond to you correctly in English go to a English native speaking country. Simple.

[sirineou]

If that was the case no one would understand a word I say. My thai is limited and I am sure by pronunciation and syntax is atrocious but I don't have any problem being understood at a basic level from context.

telephone communications are difficult because visual cues ad a very important  additional component to communication. IMO. 

Edited February 25, 2020 by sirineou

[jastheace]

I have no problem being understood in Ubon. yet struggle in Udon. weird.

 

[jastheace]

My response. Mueang(เมือง ).

yeah, you have to be careful not to say the vowel sound too short on that word....

[1FinickyOne]

it is not the same to have english/english accents be comprehensible to thai/english... 

 

I often cannot understand Thai people's attempts at English as they are not close enough to the correct pronunciation.. 

 

telephone conversations are tougher and speaking in full sentences easier.. good luck - it takes time and is difficult to get to being understood but it does happen.

[BigStar]

What seems no different, when it is in fact different, or only slightly different, will render a word incomprehensible--absolutely or relative to the context--in a tonal language like Thai that critically depends on different tones you can't hear without a lot of practice with a Thai speaker. Besides tones, you have timings and all the rest.

 

Helps if you have a good ear for music, but anyone can learn with hard work and practice--which most are not willing to do seriously. I mean, what they think is hard work really isn't. 

 

That's just the way it is and you can't expect more.

 

I've known native speakers to give up easily on learning Thai or Vietnamese because they swore they pronounced correctly yet the Thais or Vietnamese were pretending they didn't understand. Stupid. I hear other farangs around deluding themselves they're speaking Thai correctly when it's a big effort to make any sense their gibberish and Thais will try to cut off their attempts as soon as possible.

 

Now a Thai who's used to common foreign mispronunciations and is also of above average intelligence might be able to figure out what you're trying to say. Sometimes.

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by BigStar

[Captain Monday]

15 minutes ago, BigStar said:

What seems no different, when it is in fact different, or only slightly different, will render a word incomprehensible--absolutely or relative to the context--in a tonal language like Thai that critically depends on different tones you can't hear without a lot of practice with a Thai speaker. Besides tones, you have timings and all the rest.

 

Helps if you have a good ear for music, but anyone can learn with hard work and practice--which most are not willing to do seriously. I mean, what they think is hard work really isn't. 

 

That's just the way it is and you can't expect more.

 

I've known native speakers to give up easily on learning Thai or Vietnamese because they swore they pronounced correctly yet the Thais or Vietnamese were pretending they didn't understand. Stupid. I hear other farangs around deluding themselves they're speaking Thai correctly when it's a big effort to make any sense their gibberish and Thais will try to cut off their attempts as soon as possible.

 

Now a Thai who's used to common foreign mispronunciations and is also of above average intelligence might be able to figure out what you're trying to say. Sometimes.

 

I have a good ear for music but CANNOT carry a tune. I try to control my voice but it just wavers and warbles.

Karyoki is limited to hard rocks songs that consist of shouting, and rap. I thought this may have been a problem.

[swissie]

Essential for a "tonal-language". Especially if a certain word can be pronounced 4 different ways, giving it 4 different meanings.
(Chinese=5 different ways.)
Relax: There are a few key-words in English that Thais will understand, no matter how you pronounce them.
Of course, the rolling "R" of Americans will be interpreted as an expression of anger. (unless the Lady has been around the block for for a while).

[Enki]

3 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

Well there are only so many districts Samoueng, Nong Hai,

Mai Rim, so the contest is well narrowed down. My response. Mueang(เมือง ).

I don't get it, why do you say Mueang, when you mean Samoueng? Or why are you surprised that she does not understand it? She as well knows there are only three districts, and when you name one that does not exist she obviously is confused ... what does he mean? Is he really in Chiang Mai and not Chiang Rai? Etc. 

[uhuh]

Uneducated, never exposed to foreigners, grandma selling me spring rolls understands everything just fine. 

Auntie - she certainly didn't finish M3 - trying to sell me rice understands everything just fine. That she was late,  I came too early,  but I will come another day...

Taxi drivers selling me a fare understand everything just fine. 

Call center staff like AIS or True selling me a promotion understand everything just fine...

Ooooh, but if I call the same call center with a complaint even English speaking staff cannot understand me...

 

Do you sense a motivational problem?

 

 

 

 

 

[kokesaat]

I known several expats who think they know how to pronounce different Thai words,  but they butcher the pronunciation something awful......and get upset when they're not understood.  I only understand my wife when she asks about 'Aunt Chester) because we've been married for 47 years......but even then it takes me a bit to realize she's asking about ancestors.  

I finally buckled down and learned pronunciation and tones.....more often than not, when a Thai doesn't understand me it's because of pronunciation......not tones

[Captain Monday]

3 hours ago, Enki said:

I don't get it, why do you say Mueang, when you mean Samoueng? Or why are you surprised that she does not understand it? She as well knows there are only three districts, and when you name one that does not exist she obviously is confused ... what does he mean? Is he really in Chiang Mai and not Chiang Rai? Etc. 

I said Mueang as in Amphur Mueang Chiang Mai , nothing about Samoeung.

There are 25 districts in Chiang Mai, not 3. I see "Nong Hai" isn't one of them I was wrong about that. That is not the point of my query Why Thai people apparently cannot understand words unless they are pronounced and intoned perfectly. I mean I could go into a bar in the US and ask for a "Biya" like an Aussie, two freaking syllables, when "American" for Beer is one syllable and sure I won't have a problem.  

 

01. Mueang Chiang Mai - 50000 02. Chom Thong - 50160 03. Mae Chaem - 50270 04. Chiang Dao - 50170 05. Doi Saket - 50220 06. Mae Taeng - 50150 07. Mae Rim - 50180 08. Samoeng - 50250 09. Fang - 50110 10. Mae Ai - 50280 11. Phrao - 50190 12. San Pa Tong - 50120 13. San Kamphaeng - 50130

14. San Sai - 50210 15. Hang Dong - 50230 16. Hot - 50240 17. Doi Tao - 50260 18. Omkoi - 50310 19. Saraphi - 50140 20. Wiang Haeng - 50350 21. Chai Prakan - 50320 22. Mae Wang - 50360 23. Mae On - 50130 24. Doi Lo - 50160 25. Galyani Vadhana - 50270[13]

Edited February 25, 2020 by Captain Monday

[Curt1591]

I once needed a translator to order at Dairy Queen.

 

I ordered a "Mocha Moolatte".  I repeated it, about a half dozen times and all I got was blank stares.

Finally, a young lady came to my rescue and told them I wanted a "mok-AHHH" moolatte. All was good after that!

 

[Captain Monday]

1 minute ago, Curt1591 said:

I once needed a translator to order at Dairy Queen.

 

I ordered a "Mocha Moolatte".  I repeated it, about a half dozen times and all I got was blank stares.

Finally, a young lady came to my rescue and told them I wanted a "mok-AHHH" moolatte. All was good after that!

 

God I love Dairy Queen. Especially how the gals gratuitously invert the ice cream cone to prove its thickness.

[RichardColeman]

Be fair, as a UK southerner I have a hard job understanding my 30 year old daughter that lives in Blackpool sometimes, and as for the Irish, Scots and imported Jamaicans I'm pretty lost most of the time

[1FinickyOne]

35 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

"Biya" like an Aussie, two freaking syllables, when "American" for Beer is one syllable and sure I won't have a problem

mueang is a bit difficult to pronounce as it has a sound that westerners don't easily make and is not used in English... try frowning a large clown frown when you say it and hold that frown... 

 

you just don't realize how far off your pronunciation is... walk in a bar and ask for a booo-ee-ee- arrr...

[Tayaout]

I had a taxi driver make me a long speech about how you need to have perfect prononciation and how it was superior than English... He did not seem to care that I try my best to learn his language. Needless to say he did not got any tip. 

 

One explanation, I came to overtime is that all the words are like 1-2 short sounds with variable intonation. The language is less "complex" so you have to be more precise when making the limited set of available sounds and have the right intonation. The issue is that my earing is not that good to ear such nuance.

 

I have also issue to ear conversations in some situation like with loud music or traffic when others peoples seem to ear just fine. I still have a relatively strong French accent even after 20+ years of learning English so I don't have high hope to ever speak "perfect" Thai.

 

Even with my extended familly sometimes they simply assume that they won't understand (so they won't even listen) and they look at my wife who get almost mad and repeat exactly what I said. I ask her what I did wrong and she tell me I had the correct prononciation. It's even worse with stranger since their brain seems to assume that I try to speak English with them. 

 

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Tayaout

[BritManToo]

A1; Because their average IQ is 90, which means at least half the Thais you meet have IQs lower than that.

A2: Because Central Thai isn't their first language.

Edited February 26, 2020 by BritManToo

[Ventenio]

Like other countries....SOME people won't like you, and make you feel stupid.  Some people really want to understand you, and they make an effort.  It's funny when even saying KoorooNa or Corona will have people completely confused even if you point to their mask and ask, in thai, if they are infected (only do this with a friend).  

 

Honestly, it doesn't matter.  Lean a little Thai for your day-to-day life of buying food and saying hi and all the very simple stuff.

 

even if you really learn Thai, I'm sure you won't have any deep conversations like you would in English.  Not a language thing.  Maybe cultural.  

 

 

[GeorgeCross]

46 minutes ago, Curt1591 said:

I once needed a translator to order at Dairy Queen.

 

I ordered a "Mocha Moolatte".  I repeated it, about a half dozen times and all I got was blank stares.

Finally, a young lady came to my rescue and told them I wanted a "mok-AHHH" moolatte. All was good after that!

 

 

good try but i'm sorry you cannot beat my experience in mcdonalds nakhon ratchasima.. after about 20 attempts the cashier finally goes to get the manager who returns saying "aaaah cheeeee burg-aaaa"

 

i had to laugh

 

[fruitman]

14 minutes ago, GeorgeCross said:

 

good try but i'm sorry you cannot beat my experience in mcdonalds nakhon ratchasima.. after about 20 attempts the cashier finally goes to get the manager who returns saying "aaaah cheeeee burg-aaaa"

 

i had to laugh

 

hambaaagaaaaa, cheeee baaagaaaa, mac mac, Pizza supaaadaaalac....yes the thai are pro's....

[ramrod711]

8 hours ago, Dominion said:

If you want people to respond to you correctly in English go to a English native speaking country. Simple.

I'm sure you mean well, but have you ever spoken with a Geordie?

[ramrod711]

59 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Be fair, as a UK southerner I have a hard job understanding my 30 year old daughter that lives in Blackpool sometimes, and as for the Irish, Scots and imported Jamaicans I'm pretty lost most of the time

Sorry I didn't read your post before I posted. You are not wrong, I was in a bar in Chiang Mai years ago couldn't understand a word the fellow beside me was saying. When he left I asked the owner, who was British, if he could understand what the guy said, "about 20%" he replied.

[TSF]

I've lived in Thailand for a very long time, and speak the language well, not fantastic, but my conversational Thai is at a pretty high level. I can also read reasonably well. Anywhere I go alone, be it a restaurant, a bar, a shop, an office, and I speak Thai with the staff I end up having nice friendly chats with the people and they'll all say things like..."Khun poot Thai geng", "Poot Thai chat mark". All this is when I am alone.

 

However, when my Thai wife is with me suddenly nobody has a clue what I'm saying. I'll ask for a small beer and they spin around to my Thai wife with a puzzled look on their faces, and then my wife has to act as the translator.

[Moonlover]

Having a telephone conversation with any foreign national, Thai or otherwise, is very difficult. Speech is not just about words, it includes expressions and gestures as well, both of which are absent.

 

My wife is the only Thai with whom I can converse on the 'phone, no doubt because we both use common words and word combinations and we know each other's accents. If we need to 'phone the bank or other similar institutions, I inevitably leave the talking to her.

 

 

 

 

 

[Moonlover]

9 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

I know what this word sounds like to me I have been trying to say it for 20 years or so. I ended up having to search for my account number.

So you called the PEA about your account and you didn't have your account number to hand.

 

Isn't the account number the very first thing that they would want to hear from you? And from that number it would not be be easy for her to deduce where you lived, including the district!

 

Others can make of that what they will. I've already made my mind up.

[Farangwithaplan]

I met an English guy who lived in Mukdahan (I think) and he lamented to me that for the few years or so he'd been there, the same van driver would say "huh!?" every time he pronounced the intersection he wanted to disembark at. He always ended up having to say "Jod trong nee" when he arrived near the intersection

 

The English chap could never understand if the driver was just messing with his mind. But he genuinely thought the driver just never thought about it at all to make the connection after all that time of having the one non Thai in his vehicle travelling to the same drop off point almost every morning.

 

I can relate sometimes. But it usually gives me a chuckle.

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Farangwithaplan

[jackdd]

The problem often lies in the expectations of the other person, and not so much in the pronounciation itself.

When a westerner talks to a Thai, often the Thai will assume that the westerner speaks English to him. The Thai person will try to interpret the sounds as English words, so if the westerner actually speaks Thai he will not be understood. This problem can be solved by just talking in longer sentences, to give the other person time to grasp which language you speak.

 

Sometimes my girlfriend puts random english words in Thai sentences, this tends to confuse me. Recently she said a sentence in Thai which included "bee". After she repeated it two times, i finally asked her what "bee" means, because i thought it's supposed to be Thai word and didn't make sense to me. Turned out she meant the english word "bee". Just using ผึ้ง would have been too easy i guess.

 

A while back i was dating a Thai girl who grew up in some small village near Cambodia, where everybody just speaks a type of Khmer dialect.

Many times when she had to interact with Thai people, basic stuff like ordering food, there were communication problems. To me her Thai sounded normal, i didn't have problems to understand her. But it was off by such a degree that Thais who expected her to speak perfect Thai failed to understand her.

She said something in Thai to the other Thai person, but just got puzzled looks because the other person didn't understand her. Then i repeated what she said, and suddenly the Thais had no problem to understand it. Not because i speak Thai so perfectly, but just because Thais expect me to make some mistakes, so even if i pronounce things wrong they still manage to understand it. They didn't grant this margin of error to her.

Edited February 26, 2020 by jackdd

[BestB]

Answer is more simpler than you think . To understand requires someone listening and considering that for most the time no one ever listens , it becomes even bigger issue to pay attention and perhaps think for a second . 
 

this is not limited to foreigners speaking to Thai , but also applies Thai to thai . My manager tells staff to go right , but they go left. She tells go room 403, they go 304. Tell taxi opposite Soi 00, they drive inside Soi .

 

keeping in mind sometime foreigner speaking Thai , accent is so heavy that it’s almost impossible to understand, Just like some Thai speaking English , sometimes can not understand 

 

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by BestB