Covid-19: 10,000 guides out of​ work​ -​ ask government to​ feed them!

[hotchilli]

20 hours ago, colinneil said:

Ohh the poor dears, no tourists to screw over, so no money, what a shame.

People like them never think about the future, today only, then when things are a bit tight, go bleating to the government,  you have to feed us, tough.

I'm sure Prayut is listening to you...

[Emdog]

and the word of the year ought to be schadenfreude "taking pleasure in others misfortune"

[Yinn]

21 hours ago, colinneil said:

Ohh the poor dears, no tourists to screw over, so no money, what a shame.

People like them never think about the future, today only, then when things are a bit tight, go bleating to the government,  you have to feed us, tough.

Please tell me which tour you go before, go where, and how they “screw over”.

You imagine or you have real experience?

[Yinn]

20 hours ago, saengd said:

You wrote that people like them never think about the future, only today. Becoming a tour guide is an investment in the future both in terms of time, training, effort and expense, that's why what you wrote is not really the case. And when you write that there's no more tourists fro them to rip off that's also untrue since their wages are determined by the government and the hotels and tour companies know that. The hotels and tour companies also understand that they are the agent in that transaction with the tour guide and they usually want a cut which lowers the wage even further.

Thankyou post real information. Again.

 

i think a lot of people complain about tours, are tourist who use Thai holiday sit in beer bar, not really go on tour. 

They confused, a beer bar worker is not a tour guide.

 

Some member is very happy this tour guide is now suffer. Nasty.

[Yinn]

20 hours ago, CanuckThai said:

I thought that workers could receive unemployment (or employment loss) benefits in Thailand?  I read a few weeks ago, that Thai people were quitting jobs, to receive the government benefit, which was a higher amount than the salary received for reduced hours at some factories/manufacturers....

Workers pay social security every month from salary. If lose the job can get this money, it is lower than salary. 

Also if have a kid, you get money every month for 2-3 years for the kid.

 

The amount up to the amount you pay. Real job like in office, bank, factory, supermarket. Not Pattaya bar worker, win motorcycle etc. 

@Assurancetourix think he know about Thailand, but is wrong. He imagine.

 

Thailand’s Social Security System is funded by the contributions from workers or insured person, employers, and additional contributions from the government.  Employers or companies with 1 or more employees, from 15 to 60 years old, must register and submit their employees’ Social Security Fund application to the Social Security System of Thailand within 30 days from the date the employee has began to work. The company must report any changes in the status of employment to the Social Security Office not later than the 15th day of the following month effecting the change.  A person can make voluntary contributions paying 9% of  their earnings up to 4,800 THB each month. Employees earning less than 1,650 shall not make contributions.

 

 

[Borzandy]

13 hours ago, Yorkshire Tea said:

Don't look like tour guides

Seems you don't know how are tour guides.

[Yinn]

14 hours ago, saengd said:

Perhaps get back on track rather than personalize this....

 

What that exchange has demonstrated is that it takes a person earning 500 baht a day, way above the typical salary for unskilled workers, a seriously long time to save money for a rainy day. Yes it can be done I'm sure but unlikely if the person is say early twenties and earning only minimum wage.

Hi saengd.

you usually correct, high knowledge.

but 

500 is average for unskilled worker (in the south). 

Only Burmeses will work for under 500 per day (here) 

impossible to find thai worker under that (exception is SOME Muslim woman under 25 or old Muslim woman)

 

Maybe with low tourism= high unemployment now, will find cheaper worker.

[saengd]

8 minutes ago, Yinn said:

Workers pay social security every month from salary. If lose the job can get this money, it is lower than salary. 

Also if have a kid, you get money every month for 2-3 years for the kid.

 

The amount up to the amount you pay. Real job like in office, bank, factory, supermarket. Not Pattaya bar worker, win motorcycle etc. 

@Assurancetourix think he know about Thailand, but is wrong. He imagine.

 

Thailand’s Social Security System is funded by the contributions from workers or insured person, employers, and additional contributions from the government.  Employers or companies with 1 or more employees, from 15 to 60 years old, must register and submit their employees’ Social Security Fund application to the Social Security System of Thailand within 30 days from the date the employee has began to work. The company must report any changes in the status of employment to the Social Security Office not later than the 15th day of the following month effecting the change.  A person can make voluntary contributions paying 9% of  their earnings up to 4,800 THB each month. Employees earning less than 1,650 shall not make contributions.

 

 

It's quite amazing just how many farangs on TVF imagine things to be true that aren't, what's that all about I wonder. Almost every day at least one person posts something they claim to be fact that isn't, do people not care about the truth I wonder or do they just want to post and be seen as the person who knows the "facts". It's a scary thing, it's one thing to be mistaken or to relay second hand misinformation but some of this stuff is just pulled out of thin air. I think that's why it's always good to post a link to something that will support any claim to fact, it helps show it wasn't just dreamed up.

[cornishcarlos]

4 minutes ago, Yinn said:

Hi saengd.

you usually correct, high knowledge.

but 

500 is average for unskilled worker (in the south). 

Only Burmeses will work for under 500 per day (here) 

impossible to find thai worker under that (exception is SOME Muslim woman under 25 or old Muslim woman)

 

Maybe with low tourism= high unemployment now, will find cheaper worker.

 

Not true... Most unskilled/qualified workers in our area (Suratthani province) are still working for minimum wage. (300-350) Not just Burmese but Thai too...

Ask what the monthly wage is for a chicken factory or palm oil factory !!

Casual workers do not pay social security, therefore can't claim any benefits if out of a job.

 

[MadMuhammad]

21 hours ago, Assurancetourix said:

Thailand will have to learn from us, farang,;

 

but I already know what will happen, only Thai people know and it is not countries like Germany or UK or France that will know what to do ...
In our countries in Europe, we pay multiple charges on our gross wages in order to have the possibility of being paid if unemployment reaches us;
and also the possibility of being not only treated but operated for very serious illnesses and free of charge, obviously not for so-called "comfort" operations; (in any case, this is how it happens in France);
a friend of mine just had eye surgery; something done with a laser, well he did not take a euro out of his pocket ..

And you’d have them pay taxes out of which part of the 300 baht per day they earn? 

[Yinn]

12 minutes ago, saengd said:

It's quite amazing just how many farangs on TVF imagine things to be true that aren't, what's that all about I wonder. Almost every day at least one person posts something they claim to be fact that isn't, do people not care about the truth I wonder or do they just want to post and be seen as the person who knows the "facts". It's a scary thing, it's one thing to be mistaken or to relay second hand misinformation but some of this stuff is just pulled out of thin air. I think that's why it's always good to post a link to something that will support any claim to fact, it helps show it wasn't just dreamed up.

I try to show the link. But sometime it difficult to find the English one eg about the Thai social security above. 

 

The people who imagine and dream they know everything NOT speak Thai. So is difficult to help them.

eg the rant post#5, imagination, not reality

@Assurancetourix

Edited March 3, 2020 by Yinn

[Assurancetourix]

1 minute ago, Yinn said:

The people who imagine and dream they know everything NOT speak Thai. So is difficult to help them.

eg the rant 

@Assurancetourix

 

I feel like we're going to get married soon  

[justin case]

save a penny for a rainy day is not a thai thing

 

spend all today, you might be dead tomorrow

[hotchilli]

14 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Most tour guides do not have other jobs, making their life difficult as they bear day-to-day expenses, and most don’t have any backup plan either, he added.

The goose has flown.... Som-nama-na

[pixelaoffy]

Hilarious. ! All the eggs in the Chinesebasket and forget the falang! "Chickens coming home to roost "

[paddypower]

I think its unkind to 'blame' Thais for not being proactive enough to put away some money for a rainy day. We expats have the benefit of a decent education, which included learning about cause and effect. A Thai would sell their vote, for a pittance, not realizing that such a decision will likely have negative effects for them and for the country. I'll contine to never look down on those less fortunate. Joan Baez sang it best.

[HaleySabai]

22 hours ago, Assurancetourix said:

Thailand will have to learn from us, farang,;

 

but I already know what will happen, only Thai people know and it is not countries like Germany or UK or France that will know what to do ...
In our countries in Europe, we pay multiple charges on our gross wages in order to have the possibility of being paid if unemployment reaches us;
and also the possibility of being not only treated but operated for very serious illnesses and free of charge, obviously not for so-called "comfort" operations; (in any case, this is how it happens in France);
a friend of mine just had eye surgery; something done with a laser, well he did not take a euro out of his pocket ..

There is a similar system in Thailand - called "social insurance". If you have a salary-based job and the company is registered with the government there are the usual deductions that feed a pension & health plan. Also a minor unemployment rebate of about 50% of your wage for a period of 4-5 months while the government agency helps you find another job.

 

I suspect the "guides" are largely free-agents and not entitled to any form of gov. insurance.

They could take another hint from the West and get unionized....but this would involve getting organized first.

[InsertNameHere]

56 minutes ago, paddypower said:

I think its unkind to 'blame' Thais for not being proactive enough to put away some money for a rainy day. We expats have the benefit of a decent education, which included learning about cause and effect. A Thai would sell their vote, for a pittance, not realizing that such a decision will likely have negative effects for them and for the country. I'll contine to never look down on those less fortunate. Joan Baez sang it best.

Yes, the majority on this site are people who have think they have the privileged of downing another. Factors based on which starts from the top. When you have no money you do what ever it takes to get money to survive. This caused by the systems in which we adopt in use all around the world and is the effects from this thing called capitalism.  Many on here should be ashamed at the way they talk about thai people when the people can not do much as we all are product of society/culture. The blame is on the top wealth thai or non thai. 

[geriatrickid]

23 hours ago, PowerKat said:

It's not the governments fault that there are no Chinese tourists, they have left all doors wide open for them to come in. They can be blamed for the lack of farang tourists though.

 

None of these tour guides bothered to put money away for a rainy day then? 

They are paid a pittance. it is basically a hand to mouth existence. It is why so many look for kickbacks from merchants and restaurants. what should have occurred is that the government  enforce a living wage such that the   tour guides would have  received some of the  exorbitant fees paid to the tour organizers and that there been a small amount  deducted  for a government benevolent fund to  cover periods when there was no work.  Responsible  administration truly is a foreign concept and one that is unwelcome in thailand.

[saengd]

1 hour ago, pixelaoffy said:

Hilarious. ! All the eggs in the Chinesebasket and forget the falang! "Chickens coming home to roost "

Read and weep.

 

https://thethaiger.com/news/opinion/why-the-chinese-are-infinitely-more-important-than-western-tourists-to-thailand

[Assurancetourix]

14 minutes ago, InsertNameHere said:

When you have no money you do what ever it takes to get money to survive

When you have no money, you do not buy with a long credit like a day without bread the latest fashionable smartphone or a new motorbike while there is a profusion of opportunity for 1/3 of new price ...

[Isaan sailor]

Too many eggs in a Chinese basket.  What did they expect?

 

[Bundooman]

23 hours ago, Assurancetourix said:

I agree with this answer, but Colin never talked about investing in a trade.
He says that when one works one must have the intelligence to put part of one's salary aside in anticipation of lean days.

That's also true - providing you are able to put some money away for a 'rainy day'.

Wages in Thailand are not the best suited to be able to do that.

You try saving while living on 10,000 baht a month, (15K if you wish to be extravagant  - and there aren't that many millions even getting close to that kind of money.

I actually feel bad for them. It's not their fault!

[Assurancetourix]

18 minutes ago, Bundooman said:

You try saving while living on 10,000 baht a month,

 

No problem ;
We have to make a distinction;
in Thailand we eat for 40 baht;
so 10,000 divided by 40 = 250
Let's make the same comparison with France where the minimum wage is 1185 euros net;
and a meal in a worker's bistro is around 13 euros;

therefore 1185 divided by 13 = 91;

You see that the Thai worker earns more than a French worker at minimum wage

 

and in terms of housing, it is even worse if we compare France and Thailand.
Here we can stay, even in Bangkok, for 3,000 baht / month and if we have nothing against the company of other people we share with 2 or 3 other people to pay only 1,000 baht per month;
in France, you will not find anything less than 400 euros monthly and living alone or max two.

I say, as I am sure, that a Thai minimum wage worker lives much better than the same minimum wage worker in France.

[Ventenio]

7 minutes ago, Assurancetourix said:

we can stay, even in Bangkok, for 3,000 baht / month

This would be such a sub-standard of living that it would compare to jail.  This is not realistic, or sanitary.   Why not just say we can take a hammock and live in the jungle, which is possible....but just as likely as "living" in Bangkok for 3,000.  We can sleep in movie theater bathrooms and walk at night to save money......lol.....

[Assurancetourix]

5 minutes ago, Ventenio said:

This would be such a sub-standard of living that it would compare to jail.  This is not realistic,

I see that you know Bangkok very badly;
Hundred  of thousands of workers live in these conditions in Bangkok but also everywhere in thailand.

[saengd]

21 minutes ago, Assurancetourix said:

 

No problem ;
We have to make a distinction;
in Thailand we eat for 40 baht;
so 10,000 divided by 40 = 250
Let's make the same comparison with France where the minimum wage is 1185 euros net;
and a meal in a worker's bistro is around 13 euros;

therefore 1185 divided by 13 = 91;

You see that the Thai worker earns more than a French worker at minimum wage

 

and in terms of housing, it is even worse if we compare France and Thailand.
Here we can stay, even in Bangkok, for 3,000 baht / month and if we have nothing against the company of other people we share with 2 or 3 other people to pay only 1,000 baht per month;
in France, you will not find anything less than 400 euros monthly and living alone or max two.

I say, as I am sure, that a Thai minimum wage worker lives much better than the same minimum wage worker in France.

Your number of 13 Euro's is conveniently (for you) way off, if we're going to compare apples and apples, try, "and cheap street food or takeout meals typically cost about 5-8 Euros". https://www.lefoodist.com/guides/cooking-classes-paris/cookingparis69.html

 

Plus the social care system in France takes care of the unemployed or sick brothers, sisters, nephews and nieces, parent and grandparents whereas that responsibility in Thailand is passed down the chain to other family members who can work and earn money.  All of a sudden that 40 baht to eat becomes 120 baht or more.

 

And the cost of educating children is often passed own that same chain, as is responsibility for inheritances debt that must be paid off. It's far too simplistic to suggest that Thailand is cheaper just because one person can eat for 40 baht whereas in France it costs 13 (or 5/8 really) Euro's.

[Assurancetourix]

4 minutes ago, saengd said:

Your number of 13 Euro's is conveniently (for you) way off, if we're going to compare apples and apples, try, "and cheap street food or takeout meals typically cost about 5-8 Euros". https://www.lefoodist.com/guides/cooking-classes-paris/cookingparis69.html

 

If you knew France, which is not the case, you would know that a worker does not eat in the street but sits at a table in a bistro.
In France there is no street food like in Thailand; and fortunately because in France  we know what hygiene is;

in all the bistros there are real toilets, water and soap and enough to wipe your hands.
If you find this on a night market in Thailand, let me know ...

[chilli42]

I don’t say this is the case with the 30,000 tour guides but I have observed over the 30 years I have been in Thailand that Thais have become more careful about their job choice.  Unsurprisingly, they would rather have jobs where they get paid well, can dress nicely, do lots of talking and does not involve manual labor of any kind.  This accounts for the continuous flow of workers from Issan and neighboring counties that pick up the jobs/work that other Thais have come to distain. There is also this unfathomable notion that all workers be treated the same regardless of skills and performance (fairness they call it). It’s hard to blame them, who would not better work circumstances.  That said, Covid-19 is nobody’s fault ... perhaps it’s the fault of the Chinese if reports are to be believed.  Somethings things go sideways and life treats you unfairly.  I suspect there are jobs available if they will stoop to do them.  It’s also a wake up call that there is a need to reskill ones self so that you are not so dependent on one job when times are tough.

[saengd]

1 minute ago, Assurancetourix said:

 

If you knew France, which is not the case, you would know that a worker does not eat in the street but sits at a table in a bistro.
In France there is no street food like in Thailand; and fortunately because in France  we know what hygiene is;

in all the bistros there are real toilets, water and soap and enough to wipe your hands.
If you find this on a night market in Thailand, let me know ...

Horse poo!

 

You chose the cheapest possible food court meal in Thailand, 40 baht and you decided to compare the cost of that meal against the cost of eating in a bistro in France because that's what people do!!! Are you for real or what!