Trump suspends all travel from Europe to the United States to fight coronavirus

[Chomper Higgot]

20 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

What does that mean? "A virus does not recognize borders"? Can we think this statement through? Is this to say the virus is blowing in the wind hundreds of miles? That it does not need a human carrier? If it does require a human carrier, then to cross a border it needs a human carrier. Yes? No? That would mean the carrier arrives via plane, train, or automobile, unless inhibited from doing so. Perhaps, what I am saying is pure nonsense. If so feel free to explain to me where my logic is faulted.

The virus does not need a human carrier, it can survive for days on surfaces and objects.

 

 

[Nigel Garvie]

22 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

What does that mean? "A virus does not recognize borders"? Can we think this statement through? Is this to say the virus is blowing in the wind hundreds of miles? That it does not need a human carrier? If it does require a human carrier, then to cross a border it needs a human carrier. Yes? No? That would mean the carrier arrives via plane, train, or automobile, unless inhibited from doing so. Perhaps, what I am saying is pure nonsense. If so feel free to explain to me where my logic is faulted.

I do follow your logic, it is not nonsense, it is fine of course, up to a certain point. What I said was this:- "Travel bans don't work when the virus has already spread significantly to most places in the world." Putting it simply, if you are just as likely, or indeed more likely, to catch Covid from the family next door, then restricting international travel isn't really going to help. At least you can run rudimentary checks in an airport. The guy next door is not going to take kindly to you demanding that he get tested.

[samran]

1 hour ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

I put it to you that was not his address.....but the frenzied dissection and panic mongering 

that followed after the liberal media pundits went to work.

Bahaha, Wall Street types fall for whatever liberals tell them.haha haha haha.

 

Would have nothing to do with the appearance of a president so clearly out of his depth. 

[URMySunshine]

55 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

What does that mean? "A virus does not recognize borders"? Can we think this statement through? Is this to say the virus is blowing in the wind hundreds of miles? That it does not need a human carrier? If it does require a human carrier, then to cross a border it needs a human carrier. Yes? No? That would mean the carrier arrives via plane, train, or automobile, unless inhibited from doing so. Perhaps, what I am saying is pure nonsense. If so feel free to explain to me where my logic is faulted.

There's so much circulation in the US and elsewhere now that community transfer is by far the biggest route for new infections. Travel bans only really work way back when the viral pool is very small and you have a chance to whack-a-mole the few you can track and trace. The US is less than 10 days with an explosions in cases and subsequently impact on ER. As is the UK.

[Mavideol]

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

No, you are wrong 

The CDC is still open and it has not been closed own 

Not the CDC but the NSA which was a branch/part of the CDC

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-fire-pandemic-team/

Claim

The Trump administration fired the U.S. pandemic response team in 2018 to cut costs.

Rating

True

True

back in 2017 already questioned

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/trump-rsquo-s-cdc-may-face-serious-hurdles/

Edited March 15, 2020 by Mavideol

[opalred]

why are most country's smaller and poorer testing more people now than the usa 

why the people in usa are not screaming at the govt?

[WalkingOrders]

39 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The virus does not need a human carrier, it can survive for days on surfaces and objects.

 

 

First the CDC reports primary mode of transmission is person to person from close contact:

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/transmission.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fabout%2Ftransmission.html

 

Transmission from objects, and then to self through touching face is still unknown as is how long survival of virus is on surfaces. Never the less  this is by far a minor mode. 

Many articles on this, here is one:

 

https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/can-the-coronavirus-spread-through-mail

 

You should not spread disinformation soley for the sake of argument sir.

[URMySunshine]

2 minutes ago, opalred said:

why are most country's smaller and poorer testing more people now than the usa 

why the people in usa are not screaming at the govt?

Because other countries look after the health of their people better. It's called socialized healthcare - after WW2 my parent's generation in the Uk voted in huge numbers for a socialist government who delivered it. And we regard this as a fundamental human right and not the right to bear guns. 

[WalkingOrders]

18 minutes ago, URMySunshine said:

There's so much circulation in the US and elsewhere now that community transfer is by far the biggest route for new infections. Travel bans only really work way back when the viral pool is very small and you have a chance to whack-a-mole the few you can track and trace. The US is less than 10 days with an explosions in cases and subsequently impact on ER. As is the UK.

I understand the point but still consider that we are still early in the game. The virus is still capable of jumping around by travel into currently unaffected areas. The USA is huge country with many international airports.

 

Travel within the USA, is no doubt moving it now across further distance then country to country within Europe.

 

Never the less, I still have no fear of this virus, and don't feel any worry or need for panic. Nor do I have any reason to lambast Governments around the world like my own, or the Government of Thailand. I consider myself reasonably safe.

[Mavideol]

suspended all travel from Europe to the US without ever consulting/informing any EU country about his decision, any ally would expect a courtesy call .... now he knows why no ally will back him up in any conflict, he's alone, no political and/or social skills.

following his first mistake of not informing the EU about his decision he then proceeded with his decision without being ready to start to enforce the travel restrictions....  no testing kits, border/immigration personnel not up to date with the requirements and now all US airports overcrowded with waiting lanes of up to 7-8 hours...well done Donald, keep it up

[WalkingOrders]

7 minutes ago, URMySunshine said:

Because other countries look after the health of their people better. It's called socialized healthcare - after WW2 my parent's generation in the Uk voted in huge numbers for a socialist government who delivered it. And we regard this as a fundamental human right and not the right to bear guns. 

Your health care system developed out of a neccessity of large quantities of children having to be shipped across country to avoid bombing raids. Which created a health structure that aided that effort.

 

No slight against the American 2nd Ammendment is really neccessary here is it? Our laws have no effect on your way of life.

 

 

[URMySunshine]

7 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

I understand the point but still consider that we are still early in the game. The virus is still capable of jumping around by travel into currently unaffected areas. The USA is huge country with many international airports.

 

Travel within the USA, is no doubt moving it now across further distance then country to country within Europe.

 

Never the less, I still have no fear of this virus, and don't feel any worry or need for panic. Nor do I have any reason to lambast Governments around the world like my own, or the Government of Thailand. I consider myself reasonably safe.

You appear to be a fit healthy youngish man and as such you will have a very low risk of any life threatening illness. Many others will be less fortunate sadly. 

[URMySunshine]

5 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

Your health care system developed out of a neccessity of large quantities of children having to be shipped across country to avoid bombing raids. Which created a health structure that aided that effort.

 

No slight against the American 2nd Ammendment is really neccessary here is it? Our laws have no effect on your way of life.

 

 

Your laws remind us as to how lucky we are to have effectively banned gun ownership in the UK. But the Constitutional right was to protect a developing country from restless natives and the old country of perfidious Anglos and as such was vital at a certain point in your countries history. Anyway back on topic....

[WalkingOrders]

2 minutes ago, URMySunshine said:

You appear to be a fit healthy youngish man and as such you will have a very low risk of any life threatening illness. Many others will be less fortunate sadly. 

I have posted earlier that I am 61. Very fit and healthy as a result of personal effort. Worrying accomplishes nothing. It causes stress which is far more likely to put you , personally YOU, into the grave then is this virus. Worry serves zero good purpose in your life or mine.

[URMySunshine]

5 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

Personally, as an American, I do not consider any European as an ally, nor do I believe in the continuation of NATO.

 

Europeans should keep this spreading American sentiment toward them in mind. We listen to your continued displeasure, and as I said many feel no sense of brotherhood with those who despise us so.

 

There is no foe that Europeans protect the United States from. No alliance is neccessary.

I'll give Trump one thing he has correctly identified how much a weasel Boris is - 

 

 

[spidermike007]

3 hours ago, sanemax said:

No, you are wrong 

The CDC is still open and it has not been closed own 

Wow, you are just not paying attention. If this were school, you would be suspended. We are not even discussing the CDC. Get with the program, please.

Edited March 15, 2020 by spidermike007

[WalkingOrders]

1 minute ago, URMySunshine said:

I'll give Trump one thing he has correctly identified how much a weasel Boris is - 

 

 

Oh  don't mind Boris. He talks straight. I won't fault him for telling my President he disagrees. Shoots from the hip. Just like Trump.

[WalkingOrders]

9 minutes ago, URMySunshine said:

Your laws remind us as to how lucky we are to have effectively banned gun ownership in the UK. But the Constitutional right was to protect a developing country from restless natives and the old country of perfidious Anglos and as such was vital at a certain point in your countries history. Anyway back on topic....

I will refrain from commenting on the current state, or future state of the United Kingdom, other then to say I wish you good luck. God Save The Queen!

[Rimmer]

A troll post removed

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

First the CDC reports primary mode of transmission is person to person from close contact:

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/transmission.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fabout%2Ftransmission.html

 

Transmission from objects, and then to self through touching face is still unknown as is how long survival of virus is on surfaces. Never the less  this is by far a minor mode. 

Many articles on this, here is one:

 

https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/can-the-coronavirus-spread-through-mail

 

You should not spread disinformation soley for the sake of argument sir.

 

2 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

First the CDC reports primary mode of transmission is person to person from close contact:

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/transmission.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fabout%2Ftransmission.html

 

Transmission from objects, and then to self through touching face is still unknown as is how long survival of virus is on surfaces. Never the less  this is by far a minor mode. 

Many articles on this, here is one:

 

https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/can-the-coronavirus-spread-through-mail

 

You should not spread disinformation soley for the sake of argument sir.

Your contention is viruses need a human carrier to cross a border.

 

Even if you are correct that viruses spread from surfaces/objects is a minor means of spread, it still invalidates the assertion that the virus can only cross borders with humans.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

I understand the point but still consider that we are still early in the game. The virus is still capable of jumping around by travel into currently unaffected areas. The USA is huge country with many international airports.

 

Travel within the USA, is no doubt moving it now across further distance then country to country within Europe.

 

Never the less, I still have no fear of this virus, and don't feel any worry or need for panic. Nor do I have any reason to lambast Governments around the world like my own, or the Government of Thailand. I consider myself reasonably safe.

Stay lucky.

[lannarebirth]

Not only is the development of a vaccine that is for the exclusive use of one nation reprehensible, but it begs the question "would you have any confidence in a vaccine that was the result of a Trump (Art of the Deal) ham handed intercession"? The only thing you could be confident of is that he or his family will try to profit from it.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-administration-tried-to-pay-germans-scientists-for-coronavirus-cure-2020-3

[bristolboy]

4 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

Your health care system developed out of a neccessity of large quantities of children having to be shipped across country to avoid bombing raids. Which created a health structure that aided that effort.

 

No slight against the American 2nd Ammendment is really neccessary here is it? Our laws have no effect on your way of life.

 

 

Which is why virtually every economically developed country in the world has better and cheaper health care than the USA? Because of bombing raids?

[gamb00ler]

8 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

correct Obama believed in a bloated bureaucracy Trump merely

applied common sense to right size the relevant departments.

To say that some white coats in cdc could have predicted and prevented

this pandemic is hyperbole at best.

 

Of course no one predicted THIS exact pandemic.  But they identified the substantial risk of a future pandemic and the significant impact on health and the economy.  The current administration neutered the department that handled preparedness.

 

No one has claimed that retaining the global health security team on the National Security Council would have prevented this pandemic.  If they were still there in the beginning of the outbreak they could have at least presented well thought out plans.  But....knowing POTUS's distrust of science and expertise, more likely they would have been ignored.

 

Pandemic preparedness deals with the very low frequency events that can have catastrophic consequences.  Do you ever buy insurance? 

 

This administration didn't want to pay the premiums.  And now, almost certainly you personally will bare significant expense/inconvenience/heartache because of that.

 

8 hours ago, URMySunshine said:

Because you're an expert on pandemic planning. Good to know. 

I believe his mailbox still has room for all offers for such a position.

[JHolmesJr]

7 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

Of course no one predicted THIS exact pandemic.  But they identified the substantial risk of a future pandemic and the significant impact on health and the economy.  The current administration neutered the department that handled preparedness.

 

No one has claimed that retaining the global health security team on the National Security Council would have prevented this pandemic.  If they were still there in the beginning of the outbreak they could have at least presented well thought out plans.  But....knowing POTUS's distrust of science and expertise, more likely they would have been ignored.

 

Pandemic preparedness deals with the very low frequency events that can have catastrophic consequences.  Do you ever buy insurance? 

 

This administration didn't want to pay the premiums.  And now, almost certainly you personally will bare significant expense/inconvenience/heartache because of that.

 

I believe his mailbox still has room for all offers for such a position.

 

Hmmmm...I dunno man...you sure talk a lot.

Lets look at the bodies Trump had nothing to do with shall we?

The WHO.....very well staffed...what have they achieved besides 

talking and more talking....refusing to acknowledge the situation.

Nothing.

What has the well staffed health department in the UK achieved?

Nothing.

 

This pandemic is a result of unprecedented global movement

and connectedness....and the conflict between economic inetrests

vs public health interests.

 

To make it sound like a bloated CDC department would have halted the 

progress of the disease is not only misleading, ideologically and morally bankrupt

as well as uber dishonest.

 

Go wash your hands.

[Crazy Alex]

3 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Which is why virtually every economically developed country in the world has better and cheaper health care than the USA? Because of bombing raids?

Diet, exercise, government regulations, lawsuit abuse are significant factors. Oh and in other countries, it's probably about health care. In the US, our hacks see it as a power grab. So there's that. Now, tell me about all the success the US government has had in lowering the cost of anything.

[gamb00ler]

51 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

Hmmmm...I dunno man...you sure talk a lot.

Lets look at the bodies Trump had nothing to do with shall we?

The WHO.....very well staffed...what have they achieved besides 

talking and more talking....refusing to acknowledge the situation.

Nothing.

What has the well staffed health department in the UK achieved?

Nothing.

 

This pandemic is a result of unprecedented global movement

and connectedness....and the conflict between economic inetrests

vs public health interests.

 

To make it sound like a bloated CDC department would have halted the 

progress of the disease is not only misleading, ideologically and morally bankrupt

as well as uber dishonest.

 

Go wash your hands.

You won't learn much if you don't read... and I don't mean just the headlines plus a paragraph or two.

 

You mention WHO and UK but they are not relevant to a discussion about US policy which was in no way dependent upon their efforts.

 

You're right about the global connectedness making this pandemic so fast moving.  The speed of transmission is the main cause of global health care shortages. Even small missteps in the early stages of a nation's response can lead to catastrophe when growth is exponential such as in this pandemic.  There were many such missteps in USA's (and other nations, of course) initial reaction/preparation. 

 

The National Security Council group that this administration removed were not in the CDC and not once did I use the word "halted".

Edited March 15, 2020 by gamb00ler

[gamb00ler]

7 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

Diet, exercise, government regulations, lawsuit abuse are significant factors. Oh and in other countries, it's probably about health care. In the US, our hacks see it as a power grab. So there's that. Now, tell me about all the success the US government has had in lowering the cost of anything.

Zero effort by the current administration has lead to no success.  Also, the costs that are saved are not simple to show.  Reducing ER visits by decreasing the number of un-insured is a cost saving not easily represented.

Edited March 15, 2020 by gamb00ler

[Jingthing]

So well executed!

Is anyone surprised?

This president whose brand is big on unbaked impulsive moves and chaos, does it again!

 

Quote

 

Landing at Dulles Airport, I encountered a case study in how to spread a pandemic

 

Like thousands of Americans and Europeans scrambling to get to the United States before the travel ban went into effect and flights were canceled, I flew back to the United States from Vienna on Friday. Arriving at Dulles International Airport via London, I encountered a case study in how to spread a pandemic.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/15/chaos-dulles-airport-shows-how-not-handle-pandemic/?hpid=hp_opinions-float-right-4-0_opinion-card-b-right%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans

[samran]

12 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

Oh  don't mind Boris. He talks straight. I won't fault him for telling my President he disagrees. Shoots from the hip. Just like Trump.

Shoots from the hip alright. Straight into the nations collective foot...