Ivermectin: Yes, No or Maybe

[Farangwithaplan]

It seems Monash University have just posted their results of in vitro Ivermectin testing on Covid-19. Effectively eliminated all virus (99.98%) from the samples in 48 hours with a single dose. The drug is readily available but likely unsafe for pregnant and lactating women. They seem to theorise that the drug stops the virus's ability to penetrate the patient's cells.

 

"Taken together these results demonstrate that ivermectin has antiviral action against the SARS-CoV-2 clinical isolate in vitro, with a single dose able to control viral replication within 24-48 h in our system. We hypothesise that this is likely through inhibiting IMPα/β1-mediated nuclear import of viral proteins."

 

 

A long way to go, but promising and would be available well before a vaccine.

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011

[Vigilante]

Why a long way to go?

It is an approved drug.

Only needs testing  in infected patients

[kokesaat]

The same ivermectin?

 

[sherwood]

I have used it on cattle for the past 17 years, a pour on so I have splashed plenty on myself over that time.

WHO knows. Sorry for the pun but nah, someone knows!

[spiekerjozef]

Wonder how much a dose would cost now?

[ThailandRyan]

Unfortunately when the druggies could not get their fixes from the hospitals, they turned to using animal tranquilizers and stuff they could buy from the pet stores.  Pretty much the same just the dosages are different, and the name slightly different.

[cmsally]

18 minutes ago, kokesaat said:

The same ivermectin?

 

Just what I was thinking ! Well at least the dog won't be catching the virus!

[RickG16]

With all due respect to the OP... if this is important news why is it in 'Science Direct' and not a big story on mainstream media platforms? 

[RichCor]

Wikipedia has some interesting info on this

 

Wiki: COVID-19 drug repurposing research

Wiki: Ivermectin

 

 

38 minutes ago, spiekerjozef said:

Wonder how much a dose would cost now?

Found this 'product cost' information very interesting:

"The wholesale cost in the developing world for the tablets [of Ivermectin] is about US$0.12 for a course of treatment. In the United States, the costs is less than US$50.

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by RichCor
correcting url link

[RichardColeman]

Just pity any wildlife that Chinese doctors say may cure the virus

[Monomial]

There is a huge difference between being effective in vitro and being usable in vivo.  The environment of the body is a lot different than the environment of a petri dish.

 

This is an interesting avenue for study, but don't go out and start stocking up just yet. There are thousands of drug formulations confined to the scrap heap every year because while they were effective in the lab, they proved ineffective at the task in the harsh environment of the human body.

 

[KhunBENQ]

18 hours ago, kokesaat said:

The same ivermectin?

I have a different brand in the box for the dogs

[Monomial]

17 hours ago, RickG16 said:

With all due respect to the OP... if this is important news why is it in 'Science Direct' and not a big story on mainstream media platforms? 

Because mainstream media only reports on stories that are sanctioned by the government.  They would never consider making a judgement call on whether this is a genuine treatment or not. Too much liability. If everyone starts reporting this story and it looks like it is safe, then they will jump on the bandwagon.

 

ScienceDirect is a respected modern way for smaller labs and researchers to release genuine results. If it later turns out that Ivermectin really is useful, then by releasing on Science Direct they will have established their priority date for credit.

 

 

 

[scorecard]

Perhaps a qualified doctor/researcher could please share some comments on the following;

 

From what I read this looks like a possible quick and effective treatment where the virus is already in the human body. 

 

But what about:

 

- A preventative treatment? If during this pandemic a person/ every person (with no signs of infection) took the drug every day until the whole situation calms right down, would that in fact, where the person was exposed to the virus and it did jump to that person, mean the virus would be killed before it could really gain any hold or have any negative effect on the person? And would taking it every day longer-term have any side effects?

 

- A vaccine, can a proven treatment be used as a vaccine to guard the person for life or for a long-time? I realize that many vaccines are constructed from the actual disease or virus, but is that the only way to construct a vaccine?

 

 

 

 

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Monomial said:

There is a huge difference between being effective in vitro and being usable in vivo.  The environment of the body is a lot different than the environment of a petri dish.

 

This is an interesting avenue for study, but don't go out and start stocking up just yet. There are thousands of drug formulations confined to the scrap heap every year because while they were effective in the lab, they proved ineffective at the task in the harsh environment of the human body.

 

Well yes but the drug has been on the market and approved for 30 years for human consumption.

[Farangwithaplan]

10 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Well yes but the drug has been on the market and approved for 30 years for human consumption.

Yes, it has. But as Monomial mentioned, what happens in a lab with just cells in a petri dish is very different to what happens in the body. But it is promising. People might see these results and put more funding toward it and get closer to human trials.

 

There needs to be a trial to demonstrate this drug makes a real difference in humans for this virus.

 

[kevinsan]

Be careful gentlemen. Ivemectin curbs one desire for alcohol.

[xylophone]

On 4/4/2020 at 4:41 PM, scorecard said:

Well yes but the drug has been on the market and approved for 30 years for human consumption.

I had to stop taking it because my nose became cold and wet and my ears got floppy!!

[scorecard]

50 minutes ago, xylophone said:

I had to stop taking it because my nose became cold and wet and my ears got floppy!!

   Cold and wet, that's healthy, see it does work!

[Dario]

I am amazed, why not more people react to this news of Ivermectin. I am 74 and have Diabetes type 2 since 20 years. eating 10 pills every single day to keep my Diabetes under control.

If I would catch the virus I would like to have at least one single Ivermectin 3 mg tablet in my possession, so it could at least spare me from going through hell and save my life.

 

Anyone knows where to buy it?

 

I did some research, but it seems that Ivermectin 3 mg or the generic Stromectol 3 mg are nowhere on sale in Thailand, only the solution which c an be injected to animals is available on Lazada and Shopee. Overseas there are online pharmacies selling at 5-6-7US$ per tablet, smallest quantity available is 20 tablets, then comes shipping, customs, etc. etc. Not an easy undertaking to get it. 

 

Edited April 5, 2020 by Dario
have to add something

[jacob29]

25 minutes ago, Dario said:

I am amazed, why not more people react to this news of Ivermectin. I am 74 and have Diabetes type 2 since 20 years. eating 10 pills every single day to keep my Diabetes under control.

If I would catch the virus I would like to have at least one single Ivermectin 3 mg tablet in my possession, so it could at least spare me from going through hell and save my life.

 

Anyone knows where to buy it?

 

Available on Lazada Thailand, though seems all the pet versions, so you would need to do some leg work to find the safe human dose and check for contraindications.

[Farangwithaplan]

Why not see a doctor first if worst comes to worst?

 

[Time to grow]

On 4/5/2020 at 6:55 PM, Dario said:

Anyone knows where to buy it?

 

Did you ever find it? I can only find veterinary products and the pharmacies wont order it.

[Dario]

1 hour ago, Time to grow said:

 

Did you ever find it? I can only find veterinary products and the pharmacies wont order it.

No, I never found it. BUT: eight months on I don't think we have to worry so much in Thailand. We could always get a covid-19 insurance for 850 Baht a year.

Edited December 6, 2020 by Dario

[Time to grow]

2 hours ago, Dario said:

eight months on I don't think we have to worry so much in Thailand.

 

Thanks for getting back to me. Not sure if you are aware but there have recently been a whole host of studies published on the effectiveness of Ivermectin as a Covid prophylactic and for treatment. All of the studies were positive and many of the studies were extremely promising.

Given my skepticism over the health and safety of mRNA vaccines, Ivermectin appears to be a good alternative. I have been able to find it on line but at very inflated prices.

[partington]

4 hours ago, Time to grow said:

 

Thanks for getting back to me. Not sure if you are aware but there have recently been a whole host of studies published on the effectiveness of Ivermectin as a Covid prophylactic and for treatment. All of the studies were positive and many of the studies were extremely promising.

Given my skepticism over the health and safety of mRNA vaccines, Ivermectin appears to be a good alternative. I have been able to find it on line but at very inflated prices.

As far as I can see from a scan of publications over the last year using PubMed, there have been NO studies published that show effectiveness of Ivermectin as a prophylactic or a treatment for COVID, simply studies in dishes of cells.

 

Instead there seems to be extreme caution about the use of this drug in treatment of COVID, and warnings about self-medication with it.

 

The major finding is that the dose of the drug that prevents viral replication in cells in dishes is nine times higher than the amount found in blood, and  21 times higher than the amount found in the lungs of human subjects given three times the standard recommended dose of this drug for three consecutive days.

 

It is warned that in order to attain the level of the drug necessary to have any effect on the virus in the body, the massive doses of the drug that would need to be given may have toxic effects on multiple necessary biochemical processes in cells, and therefore a phase 1 study to prove these doses would not be toxic is absolutely required before any practical clinical trials can be performed.

 

So: taking doses shown to be safe in humans would have no effect on the virus, and to reach blood concentrations that would have an effect on the virus would require taking doses that have never been shown to be safe in humans, and that current knowledge suggests could begin to affect biochemical processes essential for health.

 

See this free article in Antiviral Research June 2020 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7172803/

[impulse]

59 minutes ago, partington said:

As far as I can see from a scan of publications over the last year using PubMed, there have been NO studies published that show effectiveness of Ivermectin as a prophylactic or a treatment for COVID, simply studies in dishes of cells.

 

Instead there seems to be extreme caution about the use of this drug in treatment of COVID, and warnings about self-medication with it.

 

Okay, I'll put on the tinfoil hat for the group. 

 

Ya figure maybe there's no studies because studies cost money and Big Pharma won't spend money to study an unpatentable drug, nor will they let their government lackeys- at least not without threatening their campaign and university research funding?

Edited December 6, 2020 by impulse

[Time to grow]

5 hours ago, partington said:

As far as I can see from a scan of publications over the last year using PubMed, there have been NO studies published that show effectiveness of Ivermectin as a prophylactic or a treatment for COVID, simply studies in dishes of cells.

 

You might take a look at these:

 

 

Or these:

 

Ivermectin Meta Data: 

https://ivmmeta.com/

 

Meta Review of Ivermectin (Pre-Print) 

https://osf.io/wx3zn/

 

Ivermectin in Mexico

https://www.sie7edechiapas.com/post/repartirán-10-mil-kits-con-ivermectina-para-combatir-covid-19-en-tuxtla

 

Ivermectin in Romania

https://www.smartradio.ro/covid-19-ivermectina-medicamentul-cu-eficienta-de-pana-la-90-ignorat-de-autoritatile-din-domeniul-medical/

 

[Time to grow]

I am not here to sell Ivermectin but form my perspective, it is a clear choice "for me" over an unknown, revolutionary new technology in the form of mRNA vaccines. There are no peer reviewed studies on the safety of mRNA vaccines. Only sales brochures written by convicted fraudsters, lying politicians, and a dishonest media.

 

Ivermectin is a well tolerated drug. It has a long history of data to prove efficacy and safety. It is inexpensive and widely available (except in Thailand).

 

No one is recommending excessive dosing. These studies were conducted with the standard recommended dose.

 

Again, I am not trying to convince you that Ivermectin is the preferred treatment for all. Simply to correct your assessment that there are no studies and if there were, they are recommending excessive dosing.

[partington]

1 hour ago, Time to grow said:

 

You might take a look at these:

 

 

Or these:

 

Ivermectin Meta Data: 

https://ivmmeta.com/

 

Meta Review of Ivermectin (Pre-Print) 

https://osf.io/wx3zn/

 

Ivermectin in Mexico

https://www.sie7edechiapas.com/post/repartirán-10-mil-kits-con-ivermectina-para-combatir-covid-19-en-tuxtla

 

Ivermectin in Romania

https://www.smartradio.ro/covid-19-ivermectina-medicamentul-cu-eficienta-de-pana-la-90-ignorat-de-autoritatile-din-domeniul-medical/

 

Unfortunately almost none of these are published in peer reviewed journals, so have not been subject to a scientific analysis or scrutiny.   I don't know where your first citation comes from ( what is Covid Analysis, a journal, a blog,  a University publication?) but a meta analysis of flawed or unpublished studies is of limited reliability and credibilty.

 

The preprints of trials with apparently positive results referred to have also not been peer reviewed or subject to normal scientific scrutiny and contain warnings to this effect. See below

ICON (Ivermectin in COvid Nineteen) study: Use of Ivermectin is Associated with Lower Mortality in Hospitalized Patients with COVID19

Juliana Cepelowicz Rajter, Michael Sherman, Naaz Fatteh, Fabio Vogel, Jamie Sacks, Jean-Jacques Rajter

doi:https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.06.06.20124461

This article is a preprint and has not been peer-reviewed [what does this mean?]. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should not be used to guide clinical practice.

 

A Randomized Trial of Ivermectin-Doxycycline and Hydroxychloroquine-Azithromycin therapy on COVID19 patients.

Abu Taiub Mohammed Mohiuddin Chowdhury, Mohammad Shahbaz, Md Rezaul Karim, Johirul Islam, Dan Guo, Shuixiang He

Research Square Jun 2020 DOI:10.21203/rs.3.rs-38896/v1This is a preprint. Preprints are preliminary reports that have not undergone peer review. They should not be considered conclusive, used to inform clinical practice, or referenced by the media as validated information.

 

 

Most of the other studies quoted seem to be unpublished in any journal, never mind peer reviewed, and of really poor quality and reliability with very small numbers and very poor or sometimes no design at all, eg citing minimal differences in COVID incidence or mortality in areas where Ivermectin has or has not been used as an antiparasitic.

 

 In addition the journal Nature in October highlighted the unreliability of many of these studies, which have had to be withdrawn: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02958-2

 

 

"Ivermectin grabbed attention in April, when scientists were throwing every already-approved drug they could at the coronavirus. Researchers in Australia had noted that high doses of ivermectin could stop the virus from replicating in cells¹. Shortly afterwards, a preprint appeared online that suggested the drug could reduce coronavirus-related deaths in people.

That report was later removed from the site by some of its authors because, they told Nature, the study was not ready for peer review. The preprint had included an analysis of electronic health records by the company Surgisphere, which provided unreliable COVID-19 data sets that raised red flags for scientists in late May. By June, two other high-profile COVID-19 studies were retracted that contained data from the firm."

 

As I said a scan of Pub Med produces no proper randomised clinical trials that have been peer reviewed but do reveal one (also not very good with very small numbers mind you) that show no effects of Ivermectin - see below.  I just don't think the evidence, meaning properly designed , peer reviewed and published science is there.

 

Lack of efficacy of standard doses of ivermectin in severe COVID-19patients.

Camprubí D, Almuedo-Riera A, Martí-Soler H, Soriano A, Hurtado JC, Subirà C, Grau-Pujol B, Krolewiecki A, Muñoz J.PLoS One. 2020 Nov 11;15(11):e0242184. doi: 10.1371/journal.pone.0242184. eCollection 2020.PMID: 33175880 Free PMC article

 

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by partington
adding more information