Pattaya's Coronavirus Cock-up: Chaos on first day of lockdown as leaders scurry for rethink

[patsfangr]

READY! FIRE! aim?

[smedly]

3 hours ago, Matzzon said:

So, blaming Thailand and the way things work again. Seems to be all you can do. If you are going to continue with that, a good advice is to study the facts before.

Can you tell me what government that offers a relief for loss of work, includes the illegal part of that sector? If there is anybody to blame, that blame should fall on the people that offer these people unregistered work. They should be held responsible to pay compensation to the people that they throw away.

my one comment - people are being forced out of work because of government action not employer action, most civilised countries take care of their citizens in such times

 

are you just posting because you feel some inner urge to do so

 

most of what you post on TVF is directed at other members 

 

is it an inferiority complex or just nothing else to do except criticise other people 

 

How about contributing to the topic rather than slating others  

[smew]

lock down must be nation wide to stop the traffic and not independently city by city at different times.

 

All homeless should file a claim with PRC Chinese mainland government.  

[Mattd]

2 hours ago, Pilotman said:

The mistake, if indeed there is one, is not with the idea or its execution its with the vehicles and drivers.  They knew what was going to happen, they had plenty of warning, so why were they on the road in  such numbers in the first place.   They can't all have been on an essential emergency trip. What part of stay at home didn't they understand.  The fault and lack of thinking /planning lies with them. As usual on this forum, Members are very quick to castigate the authorities without considering alternative reasons for the cock up.  It was ever thus. 

The mistake was how they tried to isolate the city, it was never going to work in month of Sundays.

If you take a look at the map and know the area well, you would understand this, it could only ever produce what it did, that was inevitable.

A similar thing happened when they implemented the one way system on the sois for the underpass construction.

There was zero thought about the need for heavy trucks etc. having to use the railways roads, which are simply not designed for such vehicles, with some having to turn on to even smaller sois to get on to Sukhumvit and make deliveries etc. 

Both 36 and the Motorway were blocked off to left turning traffic, which made the situation a lot worse, for example, at the end of the motorway all of the traffic had to turn right whilst having to wait for traffic lights etc. then immediately face another set of lights at the top of North road, whilst those wanting to go south would have to make a u-turn as soon as they have exited on to Sukhumvit from the motorway.

Those who needed to go out of the city towards Bangkok for work etc. had very few options on how to get to the motorway etc.

 

The latest we have from sources is that they will implement a new plan on 14th April.

 

The simplest solution would be to block off the many smaller sois from Sukhumvit in to the city, leave Sukhumvit open and the place roadblocks on the open roads in to the city, city side of Sukhumvit.

Also, consider opening the new section of 7 from the existing motorway to Ban Amphur, allowing the traffic that needs to normally go down Sukhumvit to use this.

The railway roads are not suitable for use as a bypass, due to all of the smaller sois that intersect them, turn on the lights and it causes even more chaos, throw the odd train in to the mix as well..............

 

Personally, I do not see what they are trying to achieve anyway, unless they know something we don't.

[timewilltell]

3 hours ago, Matzzon said:

So, blaming Thailand and the way things work again. Seems to be all you can do. If you are going to continue with that, a good advice is to study the facts before.

Can you tell me what government that offers a relief for loss of work, includes the illegal part of that sector? If there is anybody to blame, that blame should fall on the people that offer these people unregistered work. They should be held responsible to pay compensation to the people that they throw away.

The problem with your response is the assumption that Thais who cycle around selling cups of coffee or ice-cream or run food stalls are working illegally. A far higher percentage of Thais work informally and on the breadline, too uneducated to understand about tax and so far below the level where tas would be payable anyway that they are not in for 'formal' economy. Many more work online, sell their bodies or work casually from job to job because long term jobs are hard to find - it's expensive to employ someone and hard to fire them afterwards so employers are picky.

 

I think you would be well advised to take a look at the make up of the workforce and pressures on the people and consider it when making comparisons with the West where the employment demographics are much much different. 

 

Many people are more interested in the sound bites of apparent good ideas that in practice amount to little in order to make themselves look good more than offer a vast amount of help. The same thing holds true in other countries just a bit less so.

[phantomfiddler]

5 hours ago, cyril sneer said:

Amazing what 1-2 elderly deaths a day can do

Especially when the likelihood is that one died from diabetes and the other got ran over ????

[Matzzon]

7 minutes ago, smedly said:

my one comment - people are being forced out of work because of government action not employer action, most civilised countries take care of their citizens in such times

 

are you just posting because you feel some inner urge to do so

 

most of what you post on TVF is directed at other members 

 

is it an inferiority complex or just nothing else to do except criticise other people 

 

How about contributing to the topic rather than slating others  

I am contributing by showing your low knowledge about the things you post about. How about answering my question instead? Which countries offer relief packages on the basis of illegal employment? I know you didn´t want to answer that one, and therefore you chose to deviate from the question instead.

Seems like you find it easy to blame the Thailand and the government for everything you can find on a daily basis. Except that you do not have any kind of foundation for your accusations. And here is the clear picture of what unfolds when you get called out to answer for your post. Sad!

[TheFishman1]

Good planning ahead and thais in the same sentence doesn’t add up amazing Thailand TIT

[Matzzon]

9 minutes ago, timewilltell said:

The problem with your response is the assumption that Thais who cycle around selling cups of coffee or ice-cream or run food stalls are working illegally. A far higher percentage of Thais work informally and on the breadline, too uneducated to understand about tax and so far below the level where tas would be payable anyway that they are not in for 'formal' economy. Many more work online, sell their bodies or work casually from job to job because long term jobs are hard to find - it's expensive to employ someone and hard to fire them afterwards so employers are picky.

 

I think you would be well advised to take a look at the make up of the workforce and pressures on the people and consider it when making comparisons with the West where the employment demographics are much much different. 

 

Many people are more interested in the sound bites of apparent good ideas that in practice amount to little in order to make themselves look good more than offer a vast amount of help. The same thing holds true in other countries just a bit less so.

Just cut the bull. If you are running your own business and want any benefits from it, you got to know what is needed from you to achieve that. That regards all countries. The only thing they have to do is register their business, and declare income once a year. The people that have done that, is getting the benefits now. See how simple it is, if people just not start something without a clue. That does not work anywhere either, so why would it work in Thailand?

Just as an extra info. Declaring income does not necessary mean paying tax. That depends on how much they earn in gross income after deductions.

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Matzzon

[patsfangr]

3 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

Good grief!  Give them another chance...how often do they have to make decisions during a pandemic?

 

This virus has exposed a serious lack of mass illness comprehension and healthcare planning...

The FIRST responsibility of any government is the health and welfare of its people. Some reasonably effective planning for a significant emergency is clearly a mandatory aspect of holding a position as head of a government at any level. 

[cyril sneer]

7 minutes ago, phantomfiddler said:

Especially when the likelihood is that one died from diabetes and the other got ran over ????

I think 95% of the covid deaths would have happened days/weeks after anyway

[Leaver]

5 hours ago, cyril sneer said:

Amazing what 1-2 elderly deaths a day can do

Perhaps the Governor and the Mayor have knowledge of the real figures. 

[smedly]

12 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

I am contributing by showing your low knowledge about the things you post about. How about answering my question instead? Which countries offer relief packages on the basis of illegal employment? I know you didn´t want to answer that one, and therefore you chose to deviate from the question instead.

Seems like you find it easy to blame the Thailand and the government for everything you can find on a daily basis. Except that you do not have any kind of foundation for your accusations. And here is the clear picture of what unfolds when you get called out to answer for your post. Sad!

you want to know what you can do with you your continuous confrontation posts ?

 

have guess

[DPKANKAN]

5 hours ago, ThreeEyedRaven said:

When a good result is commensurate with thoughtful planning, and a disaster with little or none, this was to be expected. 

Thailand.... The 'Hub' of all cock ups!!! 5555 ????????????????????????????????

[Dap]

5 hours ago, Toany said:

They will have to sort things quickly.  The airports of Wuhan are open again.  Soon there will be hordes of Chinese trying to enter Pattaya.

..., Phuket and Chiang Mai.

[rtco]

Pi$$-up in Brewery comes to mind ... whoooops don't mention alcohol because that's next on the list just like BKK 

[Golden Triangle]

19 minutes ago, Mattd said:

The mistake was how they tried to isolate the city, it was never going to work in month of Sundays.

If you take a look at the map and know the area well, you would understand this, it could only ever produce what it did, that was inevitable.

A similar thing happened when they implemented the one way system on the sois for the underpass construction.

There was zero thought about the need for heavy trucks etc. having to use the railways roads, which are simply not designed for such vehicles, with some having to turn on to even smaller sois to get on to Sukhumvit and make deliveries etc. 

Both 36 and the Motorway were blocked off to left turning traffic, which made the situation a lot worse, for example, at the end of the motorway all of the traffic had to turn right whilst having to wait for traffic lights etc. then immediately face another set of lights at the top of North road, whilst those wanting to go south would have to make a u-turn as soon as they have exited on to Sukhumvit from the motorway.

Those who needed to go out of the city towards Bangkok for work etc. had very few options on how to get to the motorway etc.

 

The latest we have from sources is that they will implement a new plan on 14th April.

 

The simplest solution would be to block off the many smaller sois from Sukhumvit in to the city, leave Sukhumvit open and the place roadblocks on the open roads in to the city, city side of Sukhumvit.

Also, consider opening the new section of 7 from the existing motorway to Ban Amphur, allowing the traffic that needs to normally go down Sukhumvit to use this.

The railway roads are not suitable for use as a bypass, due to all of the smaller sois that intersect them, turn on the lights and it causes even more chaos, throw the odd train in to the mix as well..............

 

Personally, I do not see what they are trying to achieve anyway, unless they know something we don't.

I agree with what you say 100%, me & the Mrs had this discussion earlier, why on earth they haven't used the new road defies belief, they are/were trying to squeeze 4 to 5 lanes each way of Sukhamvit traffic on to 2 lanes each way of the Railway road, then people trying to get into the city to shop or out of the city to get home, it was never gonna work, Fred Karno & his Army don't have a patch on these guys.  

[Jane Dough]

24 minutes ago, timewilltell said:

The problem with your response is the assumption that Thais who cycle around selling cups of coffee or ice-cream or run food stalls are working illegally. A far higher percentage of Thais work informally and on the breadline, too uneducated to understand about tax and so far below the level where tas would be payable anyway that they are not in for 'formal' economy. Many more work online, sell their bodies or work casually from job to job because long term jobs are hard to find - it's expensive to employ someone and hard to fire them afterwards so employers are picky.

 

I think you would be well advised to take a look at the make up of the workforce and pressures on the people and consider it when making comparisons with the West where the employment demographics are much much different. 

 

Many people are more interested in the sound bites of apparent good ideas that in practice amount to little in order to make themselves look good more than offer a vast amount of help. The same thing holds true in other countries just a bit less so.

Well said.

 

Rooster

[Mung]

if this country had a climate of -5 to 5 degrees Celsius, not only would road deaths be higher than the already outrageous figures, but the country would have been decimated by this virus by now through their haphazard thinking and shoddy planning; not to mention the greedy intention of letting in tens of thousands of Chinese tourists throughout January and February 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Mung

[Kerryd]

1 hour ago, RichardColeman said:

Concrete barriers for keeping people in/out seems remarkable overkill for something killing supposedly 1 person a day

I think the counter-argument would be that only one person a day is dying because of things like concrete barriers (and the bans on flights, the closing of places like bars and markets, social distancing and getting everyone to wear masks).

It's all part of the effort to prevent this from turning into a "100 people per day" catastrophe. In this case, it wasn't overkill so much as lack of foresight. I don't think they actually had a clue as to how much traffic comes from Laem Chabang, Pong and Nong Prue (and south Jomtien for that matter) on a daily basis.
As a result, they weren't prepared for the chaos that happened as a result.

Keep in mind that everyone has seen the results of what happens when the authorities don't do enough to contain the spread of the virus. Look what happened in South Korea (as the result of a single Church gathering), Northern Italy (where a patient who tested positive for the virus was allowed to roam around the hospital for over a day, resulting in dozens (maybe hundreds) of people getting infected without knowing it and then going home and infecting even more people.

Meanwhile, in places like Taiwan, the infection (and death rates) are quite low by comparison, because they took strict measures early.

Remember that Thailand had the opportunity to do the same, but decided to continue allowing flights from China to arrive even as other countries were banning them. Didn't help that the WHO actually claimed that banning flights would hinder the effort to control the virus. (A lot of theories going on about the WHO right now.) Thailand even extended the "free Visa on Arrival" period to encourage more Chinese to come here, after everyone else was banning them !

And the big "Thai to Thai" spike in infections came as a result of people attending a Muay Thai match where one of the fighters was infected and then everyone went home (to many different provinces in fact) and took the virus with them.

I have a feeling that they will come up with a new plan very soon and those concrete barriers will be back in place, possibly in different locations next time.

[justin case]

5 hours ago, cyril sneer said:

Amazing what 1-2 elderly deaths a day can do

incredible , right ?

 

everything closed, people losing jobs

 

home country : 100+ deaths a day

[scubascuba3]

18 minutes ago, DPKANKAN said:

Thailand.... The 'Hub' of all cock ups!!! 5555 ????????????????????????????????

to be fair most countries have totally <deleted> up with the exception of Sweden and Japan, the economic catastrophe is slowly unfolding, most people haven't realised yet

[Traubert]

21 minutes ago, smedly said:

you want to know what you can do with you your continuous confrontation posts ?

 

have guess

Put such people on your ignore list, it saves trouble.

 

Mine has become quite lengthy of late. ????

[norfolkc]

Blind leading the Blind Don't know they are bothering to do this because the first excuse they get they will be letting the Tourist's from hell back in and the havoc that they have caused the world will all be forgotten   

[miamiman123]

Let’s do this....but we can decide later on how to do it.

JC this place is going to hell in a hand basket by the hour!!!!

[natway09]

But why are all those private cars on the road anyway ?

[phitsanulokjohn]

The saying unable to organise a p*s* up in a brewery seems apt.

[Traubert]

20 minutes ago, Mung said:

if this country had a climate of -5 to 5 degrees Celsius, not only would road deaths be higher than the already outrageous figures, but the country would have been decimated by this virus by now through their haphazard thinking and shoddy planning; not to mention the greedy intention of letting in tens of thousands of Chinese tourists throughout January and February 

If me uncle had a .......

[steve73]

Perhaps they need to report a few days of over 100 deaths - that might get everyone to take self-isolation and a soft lock down a bit more seriously... and then think about a more enforced ban on inter-provincial travel..

 

..and before anyone says that they shouldn't be making up fatlity figures, I'm guessing that's what they're doing already.

 

 

[Mark17AA]

Anyone surprised... <deleted> up in a brewery springs to mind