Johnson under fire over handling of coronavirus crisis

[HaoleBoy]

15 hours ago, darksidedog said:

 

There will be time to assess exactly what happened down the track.

This caught everyone by surprise and I for one am very happy I didn't have to make any of the calls that have been made.

Catch 22 if ever there was one.

The difference here is you are not paid to make useful, informed, and judicious decisions for the people, but they are!  If I screwed up on multiple decisions at work I would be fired (most likely immediately).  These folks need to stand behind the choices they made and pay the price.

I'm sure if some of them stand up now and say - I made this bad decision based on .... and with hindsight I wish I had made decision X instead - then people might forgive them.  But they stand up there and rationalize their decisions (accepting no blame) or point fingers to others.  This is the problem since they are paid for their "expertise".

[stevenl]

44 minutes ago, nauseus said:

No it doesn't. This collective effort only emerged after the EU was embarrassed by Italy's call for help earlier this month:

 

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/MEX_20_631

 

https://www.france24.com/en/20200403-european-commission-italy-ursula-van-der-leyen-apology-coronavirus-covid19-giuseppe-conte

Ok, so you mean the post you reacted to was not correct since the collective effort mentioned in that post started too late, after shortages emerged.

Correct?

[Chomper Higgot]

49 minutes ago, David in the north said:

No need to say anymore!
This is exact.
Pathetic response from opposition leaders. Just out to cause trouble.

There job is to examine and challenge the government.

[Rookiescot]

The FT has an article where it estimates the death toll in the UK is already over 41000.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-3d05-43bc-ba03-e239799fa6ab

 

This puts us in second place behind the US in the world rankings of deaths from corona virus.

Anyone still think Johnson was the right man for the job?

[Logosone]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

No it doesn't. This collective effort only emerged after the EU was embarrassed by Italy's call for help earlier this month:

 

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/MEX_20_631

 

https://www.france24.com/en/20200403-european-commission-italy-ursula-van-der-leyen-apology-coronavirus-covid19-giuseppe-conte

The EU is not embarassed in the slightest. Why should it be? Germany has agreed to pay for the treatment of all severe cases of covid19, a pretty generous gift of billions of Euro. This on top of treating the worst Italian cases, French cases and putting in place collective bargaining schemes for ventilators and PPE.

 

Something Boris Johnson could have procured for Britain but failed to do.

 

Von der Leyen ist just someone completely out of her depth. Italian lunatic fringe parties, that you have posted here as some kind of voice of Italy, are merely trying to play politics against the EU, no secret they want out, like Farage and the AfD.

 

Our plagiarist in general who is heading the EU now merely does not understand that her pandering to these people only makes these extremists worse. She was annoyed that Poland, etc did their own thing but she'll hardly accomplish anything apologising. What on earth is she apologising for? Under EU law healthcare policy and provision is the responsibility of member states, the EU is only meant to support cooperation between them.

 

The Coronabonds will never ever come, and Italians should be told this very clearly. We don't need another Greece. It's bad enough the UK can't control its pandemic, we don't need Italy doing a Greece and bankrupting everybody. Coronabonds will never happen if Merkel has any sense in her head.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Logosone

[yardrunner]

17 hours ago, smedly said:

I listened the Adam Boulton on skynews earlier today

 

He interviewed some professor who was the chairman/representative of the "Independent Care home Organisation" or something, what Boulton fails to realise is that most Care Homes in the UK are privately run Independent Businesses and the owners make huge money, they have their own staff - training - standards - procurement - and are privately run, nothing to do with the NHS or the Government - they are private businesses 

 

So if they have (deleted) up with their safety procedures and not maintained standards  it has nothing to do with the Government or the NHS, it is all down to them - they are private companies

yes they are private companies but they are regulated/overseen by the quality care commission who have the power to inspect any care home without prior warning and to close any that do not meet certain standards or give an improvement notice. yes i know because i worked in care for the last four years before i retired

[sawadee1947]

18 hours ago, smedly said:

I listened the Adam Boulton on skynews earlier today

 

He interviewed some professor who was the chairman/representative of the "Independent Care home Organisation" or something, what Boulton fails to realise is that most Care Homes in the UK are privately run Independent Businesses and the owners make huge money, they have their own staff - training - standards - procurement - and are privately run, nothing to do with the NHS or the Government - they are private businesses 

 

So if they have (deleted) up with their safety procedures and not maintained standards  it has nothing to do with the Government or the NHS, it is all down to them - they are private companies

Being not the brightest candle on the cake BoJo was having fun with his lover denying the danger of corona, visiting hospitals and trying to shake hands as many as possible while other countries provided the right steps for managing the crisis. So UK lost 39 days because of this fathering clown ????

[MRToMRT]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but IMHO should be used to develop new standards for epidemic preparedness and operations. The press' badgering of the gov' just for headlines and sales takes away from the time they have to be doing something about the pandemic.

 

Let the gov get on with it now and we can have a lessons learned inquiry later as we should.

 

This is not the time in the UK to having a blame game.

 

[drguid]

I went on AliExpress and bought a consignment of PPE. I don't know why the government is blaming global shortages. There's plenty out there.

 

Untimately this crisis will cost the global economy every penny ever saved by outsourcing to China. Ironic, huh?

[Forethat]

2 minutes ago, drguid said:

I went on AliExpress and bought a consignment of PPE. I don't know why the government is blaming global shortages. There's plenty out there.

Sure, there is lots of PPE available. The shortage involves PPE that meets the specifications for use in a health care environment. 

[Surelynot]

2 hours ago, Forethat said:

In my opinion, one great benefit of wearing a mask is that it acts as a physical barrier between peoples hands and their face. That alone is reason enough for wearing one. In that respect it also stops you from 'getting it'.

It also makes some women look really sex.

[evadgib]

Why are MSM not showing the full picture, including online complaints from NHS workers who say that their (Cancer etc) fully staffed wards are lying empty because normal hospital activity has ceased (yet people still have cancer!) & some NHS workers are able to produce 'synchronized-dance-routine' videos on youtube featuring themselves in scrubs using a very expensive mobile xray machine as a sledge?

 

All they're interested in is hanging johnson in the hope of toppling his govt....& we all know the reason why...????

 

On a lighter note; Happy St Georges day ???? ????????????????????????????

Edited April 23, 2020 by evadgib

[smedly]

1 hour ago, yardrunner said:

yes they are private companies but they are regulated/overseen by the quality care commission who have the power to inspect any care home without prior warning and to close any that do not meet certain standards or give an improvement notice. yes i know because i worked in care for the last four years before i retired

Yes they are regulated but that does not remove their responsibility for their employees - residents - procurement and standards, that is all them - not the government - not the NHS, they are responsible

[transam]

2 hours ago, HaoleBoy said:

The difference here is you are not paid to make useful, informed, and judicious decisions for the people, but they are!  If I screwed up on multiple decisions at work I would be fired (most likely immediately).  These folks need to stand behind the choices they made and pay the price.

I'm sure if some of them stand up now and say - I made this bad decision based on .... and with hindsight I wish I had made decision X instead - then people might forgive them.  But they stand up there and rationalize their decisions (accepting no blame) or point fingers to others.  This is the problem since they are paid for their "expertise".

The PM is not a medical bloke, he uses advice given to him by the appropriate adviser, I would have thought.

I mean, Tony Blair took us to war listening to his advisers and a President...????

[Forethat]

To be perfectly honest, I don't think the current crew is doing that bad. Obviously, some things could have been managed better, but in an international comparison based on size of population and population density, the numbers speak for themselves. Unsurprisingly, a number of political shipwrecks suffering from BJ-tourettes will want to believe that BJ is making arbitrary decisions in a dictator-like fashion (or that it's Cummings who plan the strategy for him) and that he should be held responsible for...doing a pretty good job?

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by Forethat

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, stevenl said:

Ok, so you mean the post you reacted to was not correct since the collective effort mentioned in that post started too late, after shortages emerged.

Correct?

Incorrect.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Logosone said:

The EU is not embarassed in the slightest. Why should it be? Germany has agreed to pay for the treatment of all severe cases of covid19, a pretty generous gift of billions of Euro. This on top of treating the worst Italian cases, French cases and putting in place collective bargaining schemes for ventilators and PPE.

 

Something Boris Johnson could have procured for Britain but failed to do.

 

Von der Leyen ist just someone completely out of her depth. Italian lunatic fringe parties, that you have posted here as some kind of voice of Italy, are merely trying to play politics against the EU, no secret they want out, like Farage and the AfD.

 

Our plagiarist in general who is heading the EU now merely does not understand that her pandering to these people only makes these extremists worse. She was annoyed that Poland, etc did their own thing but she'll hardly accomplish anything apologising. What on earth is she apologising for? Under EU law healthcare policy and provision is the responsibility of member states, the EU is only meant to support cooperation between them.

 

The Coronabonds will never ever come, and Italians should be told this very clearly. We don't need another Greece. It's bad enough the UK can't control its pandemic, we don't need Italy doing a Greece and bankrupting everybody. Coronabonds will never happen if Merkel has any sense in her head.

If the EU is not embarrassed in the slightest then why the apology???

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, rhyddid said:

He shall be immaterially removed from any government or politic post , locked in the same jail where they detain Julian Assange and condemned to spend his life in prison for all the death caused by his incompetence!

Run out of beer?

[Forethat]

2 minutes ago, rhyddid said:

He shall be immaterially removed from any government or politic post , locked in the same jail where they detain Julian Assange and condemned to spend his life in prison for all the death caused by his incompetence!

Immaterially removed?

 

Presumably, you mean immediately?

 

[colinneil]

5 minutes ago, rhyddid said:

He shall be immaterially removed from any government or politic post , locked in the same jail where they detain Julian Assange and condemned to spend his life in prison for all the death caused by his incompetence!

So are we to understand you did not vote for Boris.????????????????

Also will you be donating anything to the Tories?

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, MRToMRT said:

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but IMHO should be used to develop new standards for epidemic preparedness and operations. The press' badgering of the gov' just for headlines and sales takes away from the time they have to be doing something about the pandemic.

 

Let the gov get on with it now and we can have a lessons learned inquiry later as we should.

 

This is not the time in the UK to having a blame game.

 

The ‘press badgering the Government’ is what made Johnson ditch his failed here immunity experiment.

 

The ‘press badgering the Government’ is what caused the Government to revise it’s reporting of deaths to include deaths in the community.

 

The ‘press badgering the Government’ is what has made the public aware of the Government’s failings.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

Why are MSM not showing the full picture, including online complaints from NHS workers who say that their (Cancer etc) fully staffed wards are lying empty because normal hospital activity has ceased (yet people still have cancer!) & some NHS workers are able to produce 'synchronized-dance-routine' videos on youtube featuring themselves in scrubs using a very expensive mobile xray machine as a sledge?

 

All they're interested in is hanging johnson in the hope of toppling his govt....& we all know the reason why...????

 

On a lighter note; Happy St Georges day ???? ????????????????????????????

Where did you get this from?

[Chomper Higgot]

33 minutes ago, Forethat said:

To be perfectly honest, I don't think the current crew is doing that bad. Obviously, some things could have been managed better, but in an international comparison based on size of population and population density, the numbers speak for themselves. Unsurprisingly, a number of political shipwrecks suffering from BJ-tourettes will want to believe that BJ is making arbitrary decisions in a dictator-like fashion (or that it's Cummings who plan the strategy for him) and that he should be held responsible for...doing a pretty good job?

 

Putting aside your snide attacks  on those who think differently to yourself, how old is that image, does it include the recently revealed 41% error in UK Government reporting?

 

And where is the link to the image you have posted?

 

 

[Rookiescot]

34 minutes ago, Forethat said:

To be perfectly honest, I don't think the current crew is doing that bad. Obviously, some things could have been managed better, but in an international comparison based on size of population and population density, the numbers speak for themselves. Unsurprisingly, a number of political shipwrecks suffering from BJ-tourettes will want to believe that BJ is making arbitrary decisions in a dictator-like fashion (or that it's Cummings who plan the strategy for him) and that he should be held responsible for...doing a pretty good job?

 

Not doing that bad?

Did you read the FT article I linked to?

It calculates that over 41000 people have died because of corona in the UK.

That puts us just behind the United States for total number of deaths with the US having a far larger population.

[Forethat]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Putting aside your snide attacks  on those who think differently to yourself, how old is that image, does it include the recently revealed 41% error in UK Government reporting?

 

And where is the link to the image you have posted?

 

 

Here's the COVID-19 death data:

https://github.com/CSSEGISandData/COVID-19/blob/master/csse_covid_19_data/csse_covid_19_time_series/time_series_covid19_deaths_global.csv

 

Here's the population data:

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.POP.DNST

[Logosone]

21 minutes ago, nauseus said:

If the EU is not embarrassed in the slightest then why the apology???

Because Von der Leyen was very annoyed that countries did not come to her and beg her in her magnificence to co-ordinate their national responses with her. She's using Italy to increment her authority, which countries have shown up to be close to zero. Probably because she's a miserable plagiarist who should never be in that job.

 

Of course the fact that 88% of Italians somehow believe that the EU should have prevented the coronavirus for them, and the fact that communist and far right extremists alike are instrumentalising Italian anger and trying to direct it at the EU (because they both want out) no doubt has Von der Leyen worried that Italy could be an exit candidate (thank you Britain). And guess what Miss Plagiarist doesn't want most of all? That the EU falls apart under her stewardship.

 

So the plagiarist genius decides the best thing she can do is plant a grovelling apology in an Italian newspaper. And so Miss von der Lying makes her problems even wore.

 

Again, under EU law health care policy is the responsibility of each member state and the EU merely serves to ease collaboration. Possibly an emergency fund was not working correctly, however, it was Italy's responsibility to protect its population from the virus. As in every war, Italy failed miserably. And now is trying to weasel the blame onto Germany, who is paying hundreds of millions to help Italy, like with Greece.

 

It's a disgrace, really, but we can't afford to have Italy leave the EU, so VdL figured best to apologise, even if they're talking nonsense.

 

 

[Logosone]

16 minutes ago, Forethat said:

Here. Point out where they're doing badly. Please. Just point.

Okay, well, if you take the numbers and restrict them to infected people who have the surname O'Malley obviously Ireland would be the worst affected.

 

Obviously the rather clear issue with your statistics is that you have skewed the numbers with population and population density on top. Very obviously that way the UK will always have an advantage over countries with lower populations and lower pop density.

 

Shall we compare the numbers in a more meaningful way and see how they look like when you don't divide by per capita and density?

 

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus

Edited April 23, 2020 by Logosone

[Chomper Higgot]

10 minutes ago, Forethat said:

Here's the COVID-19 death data:

https://github.com/CSSEGISandData/COVID-19/blob/master/csse_covid_19_data/csse_covid_19_time_series/time_series_covid19_deaths_global.csv

 

Here's the population data:

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.POP.DNST

Neither of those links direct to the image you have posted and are using as the basis of arguments you are making.

 

Please provide a link to the image you have posted and are using as the basis of your arguments.

 

Links to websites in which the image might or might not be buried are not links to the image.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Chomper Higgot

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Okay, well, if you take the numbers and restrict them to infected people who have the surname O'Malley obviously Ireland would be the worst affected.

 

Obviously the rather clear issue with your statistics is that you have skewed the numbers with population and population density on top. Very obviously that way the UK will always have an advantage over countries with lower populations and lower pop density.

 

Shall we compare the numbers in a more meaningful way and see how they look like when you don't divide by per capita and density?

 

 

Likewise please provide a link to the image you have posted.

[Logosone]

If the UK is doing so great, how come European WHO officials are panicking about the UK's poor performance in stemming new cases?:

 

 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8227031/Britains-coronavirus-infection-rate-frightening-European-policymakers-Austria-warns.html