As U.S. coronavirus death toll tops 50,000, a handful of states edge toward reopening

[Kinnock]

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

Media reports info provided by government. Are you saying government should stop publishing the stats?

The figures are distorted and without a context are meaningless.

 

There are many more cases than are being reported, as most are mild.  Confirmed cases are related to testing rate, state of health services and culture.  Fatality rate includes very sick people who would have died soon with or without COVID assistance - figures from Australia for example show a large drop in deaths from cancer during the COVID outbreak.

 

We are wrecking the global economy based on incorrect stats and media induced fear. 

 

To misquote Rocket "everybody got dead people, but that's no reason to wreck the economy".

 

Global deaths from heart disease, TB, diarrhoea, pneumonia dwarf the COVID numbers, we are being fed figures with no context - and we meekly follow politicians over the cliff.

 

Without the fear factor, would any of us ever believe a thing any politician tells us?

[Yinn]

32 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

But how many people die each day anyway?  Is this number exceptionally high or not?  I don't think we really know.

 

The Lancet is currently running a study of 'excess deaths' as there's a growing belief that recording all deaths as 'COVID' just because a person was tested positive when they died of cancer or heart disease etc is distorting the stats.

 

Italy had a higher rate probably due to the 23% elderly in their population, US has a high number due to population size (compared to European countries) plus a high rate of obesity and hypertension, but is it really so high that it justifies forcing people into unemployment? 

 

I think the World is having an outbreak of fear that is having a greater impact than the virus itself.

Maybe. 

If corona not go away, come back strong again, then economy broken already.

 

What can we do?

[jimmybcool]

50 minutes ago, Tug said:

Still out in the West Virginia boon docks?lol personally I and my family are practicing proper ppe and min 6 foot distancing taking only nessary trips but we are lucky we have the space and the funds to weather the storm I’m sure it’s universal that everyone wants the country to move forward my main concern is the lack of testing and tracing hopefully we don’t start a second wave good health and safety to all

Many of us are fortunate enough that the economic impact isn't devastating to our lifestyle.  I know I still play golf 5 days a week and enjoy being outside all I want.  No shortage of food, medicine or any luxury items I want.  Biggest shortfall is inability to congregate after golf and share in the normal camaraderie.  Truly first world problems.

 

But I have great empathy for people for whom this is becoming a major financial tragedy.  People raising kids and seeing their entire savings for future education or retirement disappear in a blink of an eye.  We need to weigh the level of tragedy and despair this is causing millions.

 

Do I have the answer?  Nope.  Just a guy who likes golf and scotch here.  I hope they reopen as fast as they can while avoiding a massive second wave of death.  Hope they bet right.

 

 

[Eric Loh]

19 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

The figures are distorted and without a context are meaningless.

 

There are many more cases than are being reported, as most are mild.  Confirmed cases are related to testing rate, state of health services and culture.  Fatality rate includes very sick people who would have died soon with or without COVID assistance - figures from Australia for example show a large drop in deaths from cancer during the COVID outbreak.

 

We are wrecking the global economy based on incorrect stats and media induced fear. 

 

To misquote Rocket "everybody got dead people, but that's no reason to wreck the economy".

 

Global deaths from heart disease, TB, diarrhoea, pneumonia dwarf the COVID numbers, we are being fed figures with no context - and we meekly follow politicians over the cliff.

 

Without the fear factor, would any of us ever believe a thing any politician tells us?

No one is buying your advise; obviously Trump influenced. The whole world is locking down and planning fiscal policies to help their economies. 

[stevenl]

25 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

The figures are distorted and without a context are meaningless.

 

There are many more cases than are being reported, as most are mild.  Confirmed cases are related to testing rate, state of health services and culture.  Fatality rate includes very sick people who would have died soon with or without COVID assistance - figures from Australia for example show a large drop in deaths from cancer during the COVID outbreak.

 

We are wrecking the global economy based on incorrect stats and media induced fear. 

 

To misquote Rocket "everybody got dead people, but that's no reason to wreck the economy".

 

Global deaths from heart disease, TB, diarrhoea, pneumonia dwarf the COVID numbers, we are being fed figures with no context - and we meekly follow politicians over the cliff.

 

Without the fear factor, would any of us ever believe a thing any politician tells us?

That's why you can compare the stats, look at average deaths and deaths ATM.

[simple1]

12 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

The figures are distorted and without a context are meaningless.

 

There are many more cases than are being reported, as most are mild.  Confirmed cases are related to testing rate, state of health services and culture.  Fatality rate includes very sick people who would have died soon with or without COVID assistance - figures from Australia for example show a large drop in deaths from cancer during the COVID outbreak.

 

We are wrecking the global economy based on incorrect stats and media induced fear. 

 

To misquote Rocket "everybody got dead people, but that's no reason to wreck the economy".

 

Global deaths from heart disease, TB, diarrhoea, pneumonia dwarf the COVID numbers, we are being fed figures with no context - and we meekly follow politicians over the cliff.

 

Without the fear factor, would any of us ever believe a thing any politician tells us?

Personally I take note of the numbers and context provided by health professionals to the political class, though I do think the Morrison government is currently doing a good job with communication during the current crisis. As the statisticians become more informed we will see more granularity in the stats.

 

The issue of chronic illnesses during the Covid crisis in Oz is covered by the article linked below.

 

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/drastic-drops-in-cancer-and-heart-attack-patients

 

 

 

 

[DoctorG]

What we are yet to see is the aftermath of deaths contributed to the lack of treatment/surgery of so-called elective surgery.

Many people may die prematurely for lack of treatment whilst hospital beds and operating rooms are left idle. Hospitals are laying off staff and casual nurses cannot get gigs.

I know the rationale was the lack of PPE for the COVID cases but somehow we ended up with a massive oversupply of ventilators.

Hospitals in places like NYC are indeed overwhelmed but many around the rest of the country are not being utilised at all.

 

[samran]

5 minutes ago, DoctorG said:

What we are yet to see is the aftermath of deaths contributed to the lack of treatment/surgery of so-called elective surgery.

Many people may die prematurely for lack of treatment whilst hospital beds and operating rooms are left idle. Hospitals are laying off staff and casual nurses cannot get gigs.

I know the rationale was the lack of PPE for the COVID cases but somehow we ended up with a massive oversupply of ventilators.

Hospitals in places like NYC are indeed overwhelmed but many around the rest of the country are not being utilised at all.

 

Hmm, if only the US had a national leader who could help organise these things....

[Tug]

1 hour ago, jimmybcool said:

Many of us are fortunate enough that the economic impact isn't devastating to our lifestyle.  I know I still play golf 5 days a week and enjoy being outside all I want.  No shortage of food, medicine or any luxury items I want.  Biggest shortfall is inability to congregate after golf and share in the normal camaraderie.  Truly first world problems.

 

But I have great empathy for people for whom this is becoming a major financial tragedy.  People raising kids and seeing their entire savings for future education or retirement disappear in a blink of an eye.  We need to weigh the level of tragedy and despair this is causing millions.

 

Do I have the answer?  Nope.  Just a guy who likes golf and scotch here.  I hope they reopen as fast as they can while avoiding a massive second wave of death.  Hope they bet right.

 

 

Ditto I hope they bet rite my concern is the lack of testing and tracing so in a sense they truly are gambling let’s hope it’s a win meanwhile I and my family will continue to practice due diligence health and safety to all

[malibukid]

dead people can not buy stuff, but lets open the malls anyway.  what have we got to loose.

Edited April 25, 2020 by malibukid

[malibukid]

6 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

Youjust can't bring yourself to say anything positive. I bet you would have said the mission was doomed on D day. You seem to hope it fails out of some sort of warped sense of schadenfreude.

or how the mighty have fallen

Edited April 25, 2020 by malibukid

[malibukid]

3 hours ago, samran said:

Hmm, if only the US had a national leader who could help organise these things....

where is our Churchill?

[Redoubt]

For everyone who reads, or listens to the "news" on the United States of America, and has subsequent strong negative opinions on what the President, and his primary task force have done since January 2020, there is a 99% probability that you / they do not watch the free objective news source site: www.whitehouse.gov

 

For all of the passionate opinionated fools who only gorge themselves on second-hand adulterated, twisted, negatively edited "news", from 'other sources' you will remain forever more blinded and thus ignorant of the facts which are available to anyone who truly desires to see and hear them from the very sources themselves.  There is no other way to receive the actual 'true' factual news / knowledge of reality.

 

Even in our wonderful 'Thaivisa' news here in Thailand, which I and thousands of other depend upon daily, the mere apparent dependency on Reuters for a source of accurate "news" apparently fails to convey what actually is occurring and what is being said.  This statement is based upon a comparison of what Reuters 'posts' versus what the actual factual statements / actions were that were broadcast for the world to see live!  It would be productive to post actual 'clips' of any and all of the most controversial statements, rather than to accept a mere editor's preferred take on the issue, etc.

 

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, Redoubt said:

For everyone who reads, or listens to the "news" on the United States of America, and has subsequent strong negative opinions on what the President, and his primary task force have done since January 2020, there is a 99% probability that you / they do not watch the free objective news source site: www.whitehouse.gov

 

For all of the passionate opinionated fools who only gorge themselves on second-hand adulterated, twisted, negatively edited "news", from 'other sources' you will remain forever more blinded and thus ignorant of the facts which are available to anyone who truly desires to see and hear them from the very sources themselves.  There is no other way to receive the actual 'true' factual news / knowledge of reality.

 

Even in our wonderful 'Thaivisa' news here in Thailand, which I and thousands of other depend upon daily, the mere apparent dependency on Reuters for a source of accurate "news" apparently fails to convey what actually is occurring and what is being said.  This statement is based upon a comparison of what Reuters 'posts' versus what the actual factual statements / actions were that were broadcast for the world to see live!  It would be productive to post actual 'clips' of any and all of the most controversial statements, rather than to accept a mere editor's preferred take on the issue, etc.

 

So you actually think whitehouse.gov is an objective source of information? OMG! Yeah sure. Just like kremlin.putin would be the same. 

[stevenl]

30 minutes ago, Redoubt said:

<snip>

the free objective news source site: www.whitehouse.gov

<Snip>

 

????

[Eric Loh]

39 minutes ago, Redoubt said:

or everyone who reads, or listens to the "news" on the United States of America, and has subsequent strong negative opinions on what the President, and his primary task force have done since January 2020, there is a 99% probability that you / they do not watch the free objective news source site: www.whitehouse.gov

For a moment I thought you are a voice of reason until you state the whitehouse site as objective news. The objective news is that the President has no task force till Mid March which is month and half late after stark briefings by his intelligence about the impending pandemic in January. 

[candide]

42 minutes ago, Redoubt said:

Even in our wonderful 'Thaivisa' news here in Thailand, which I and thousands of other depend upon daily, the mere apparent dependency on Reuters for a source of accurate "news" apparently fails to convey what actually is occurring and what is being said.  This statement is based upon a comparison of what Reuters 'posts' versus what the actual factual statements / actions were that were broadcast for the world to see live

So I guess you must have plenty of examples showing how Reuters conveys distorted news, quotes etc... As you seem to assess it as a regularly occurring pattern, it should not be difficult for you to find them.

Please enlight us!

[Redline]

7 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

The real solution is to wait until PPE production, testing and tracing contact infrastructures are in place.  Apparently some politicians think it's more productive to cast about for others to blame and firing those who disagree with their approach.  Plus they're willing to risk a resurgence so they can sprint ahead with re-opening.  Iceberg dead ahead!

Not worth using reason with these people, but good luck

[JCauto]

9 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

Good luck to the brave people that will move the country forward.

And good luck to their unfortunate relatives, friends and health care workers who come into contact with them after they contract the virus and for whom they're going to be responsible for infecting. Is it brave to risk other people's lives with a choice they don't make?

[samran]

3 hours ago, Redoubt said:

 

For everyone who reads, or listens to the "news" on the United States of America, and has subsequent strong negative opinions on what the President, and his primary task force have done since January 2020, there is a 99% probability that you / they do not watch the free objective news source site: www.whitehouse.gov

 

I’ve got a bridge over Sydney harbour which I’d like to sell you. For a good price too, honest...

[Redoubt]

Precisely the point:

     "For everyone who reads, or listens to the "news" on the United States of America, and has subsequent strong negative opinions on what the President, and his primary task force have done since January 2020, there is a 99% probability that you / they do not watch the free objective news source site: www.whitehouse.gov"

 

The inept who refuse to watch the news "source" listed, which is the event(s) broadcast life making the "news", and who apparently prefers to only listen to tainted and distorted 'reporting' by other individuals is doomed to suffer ignorant concepts and beliefs due to their failure to watch and listen to the actual events which 'make the news'.

 

Can it be any clearer?  Will someone else please help the needy to understand this?

[gamb00ler]

5 hours ago, Redoubt said:

Can it be any clearer?  Will someone else please help the needy to understand this?

Thank you very much.  I now have a much better appreciation for how deep and far the rot of misinformation has spread.

Edited April 25, 2020 by gamb00ler

[samran]

5 hours ago, Redoubt said:

Can it be any clearer?  Will someone else please help the needy to understand this?

I’ll help you. 
 

Numbers don’t lie: 50,000 dead. 

This time next week, likely 60,000 dead. 
 

#MAGA

 

[frenetic]

6 hours ago, Redoubt said:

Precisely the point:

     "For everyone who reads, or listens to the "news" on the United States of America, and has subsequent strong negative opinions on what the President, and his primary task force have done since January 2020, there is a 99% probability that you / they do not watch the free objective news source site: www.whitehouse.gov"

 

The inept who refuse to watch the news "source" listed, which is the event(s) broadcast life making the "news", and who apparently prefers to only listen to tainted and distorted 'reporting' by other individuals is doomed to suffer ignorant concepts and beliefs due to their failure to watch and listen to the actual events which 'make the news'.

 

Can it be any clearer?  Will someone else please help the needy to understand this?

Here is a quote from the "objective news source site" www.whitehouse.gov

"The economy has come roaring back to life under President Trump. The stock market has hit record high after record high, helping more Americans build wealth and secure their futures. Through needed tax cuts and reform, the Administration will bring jobs back to our country."

 https://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/economy-jobs/

[Langsuan Man]

7 hours ago, frenetic said:

Here is a quote from the "objective news source site" www.whitehouse.gov

"The economy has come roaring back to life under President Trump. The stock market has hit record high after record high, helping more Americans build wealth and secure their futures. Through needed tax cuts and reform, the Administration will bring jobs back to our country."

 https://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/economy-jobs/

Just look at your IRA and tell me you can really believe this drivel 

[gamb00ler]

All governors should read this:

https://time.com/5826918/hokkaido-coronavirus-lockdown/

 

Please don't waste the sacrifices already made by YOUR voters.

[meechai]

On 4/24/2020 at 3:39 PM, Yinn said:

Moreover, the USA/EURO deaths report is not the real, only report die in the hospital, not other place.

Well there are two sides to that claim

 

Many doctors have now said they are told to list covid but truth is it was not covid that killed many

Many were the usual.... fat, out of shape, High BP, High Cholesterol, smokers for 25 years etc

Many dies in hospitals without ever being covid tested yet are lumped into count

 

Truth is this year is shaping up to be lower than the last 5 except 2016 in deaths due to various illness/repertory etc etc etc

Edited April 26, 2020 by meechai

[gamb00ler]

1 hour ago, meechai said:

Truth is this year is shaping up to be lower than the last 5 except 2016 in deaths due to various illness/repertory etc etc etc

Truth is this disease has killed so many DESPITE serious lockdown efforts.  Quite a different story than you're promulgating.

[riclag]

On 4/25/2020 at 3:42 PM, Eric Loh said:

For a moment I thought you are a voice of reason until you state the whitehouse site as objective news. The objective news is that the President has no task force till Mid March which is month and half late after stark briefings by his intelligence about the impending pandemic in January. 

Objective News, Nonsense!

Fauci was playing the intel briefing down,not directly but by his advice in January to a news agency .He expressed there should be concern and to follow the CDC and homeland security while saying,its not a major threat for the USA.

I haven't seen your unattributed  source ,it wouldn't make a difference anyway,cause of Fauci advice! 

The coming pandemic wasn't a pandemic, until it was announced on March 11 by the sketchy WHO!

 One other thing worth mentioning ,according to wikipedia the task force was established  on January 29th.

 

Fauci: "Well, you know, obviously, you need to take it seriously and do the kinds of things that the CDC and the Department of Homeland Security are doing. But this is not a major threat [emphasis added] for the people of the United States, and this is not something that the citizens of the United States right now should be worried about."

 

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/04/09/the_coronavirus_trumps_medical_advice_was_contradictory_inconsistent_--_and_wrong_142898.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Coronavirus_Task_Force

Edited April 26, 2020 by riclag

[simple1]

On 4/25/2020 at 9:33 PM, Redoubt said:

Precisely the point:

     "For everyone who reads, or listens to the "news" on the United States of America, and has subsequent strong negative opinions on what the President, and his primary task force have done since January 2020, there is a 99% probability that you / they do not watch the free objective news source site: www.whitehouse.gov"

 

The inept who refuse to watch the news "source" listed, which is the event(s) broadcast life making the "news", and who apparently prefers to only listen to tainted and distorted 'reporting' by other individuals is doomed to suffer ignorant concepts and beliefs due to their failure to watch and listen to the actual events which 'make the news'.

 

Can it be any clearer?  Will someone else please help the needy to understand this?

I have just read the introduction to the topics on the website which is just summaries of trump propaganda. It is beyond doubt those who develop content for the trump administration are not balanced and occasionally, when fact checked, actual proven to be misinformation, such as editing content from trump speeches. Hardly a good example of a balanced news source.

Edited April 26, 2020 by simple1