Follow the science....

[sucit]

3 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

The great depression lasted 10 years, we are just 40 days of restriction so far, big difference

Go check the stats from the first 40 days of the great depression then. 

 

Look man, I am not here to hold your hand. If you do not have the wherewithal to know what happens when an economy gets shutdown and people go jobless it is difficult to have a discussion. 

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

83% of the deaths in Italy were 70yrs old and up allegedly... 

Chances of the majority of them having an underlying health issue is quite high.

This is an inconvenient truth for the lock down enthusiasts.

I has to be said and repeated that the majority of the deaths are occurring in the most polluted and densely populated large area in Italy and perhaps in Europe.

I don't want even talk about electro magnetic waves and the already infamous 5G.

Now, we love our elders, they are our roots and we must do the best for them, but to scare the whole population into a fearfully forced captivity with no end in sight, is a bit too much.

Personally i would sacrifice my life if my children had to starve to keep me alive 1 or 3 years more.

[teatime101]

11 hours ago, papa al said:

Who says that 99% agree?

The very few papers that 'disagreed' with the climate consensus were all found to contain flaws. 

 

https://qz.com/1069298/the-3-of-scientific-papers-that-deny-climate-change-are-all-flawed/

 

'AGW' is a good example of what overwhelming scientific consensus looks like.

 

The solution for containing Covid19 is much less clear, because while managing it involves socio-economic trade-offs, like CC, it's not likely to threaten the future of civilisation as we know it, and the lives of billions, as CC does.

[teatime101]

4 hours ago, UbonThani said:

Science is about facts not opinions

I don't think you understand what consensus in science means. A fact in science is called a fact precisely because that is the consensus view. 

 

• Fact: In science, an observation that has been repeatedly confirmed and for all practical purposes is accepted as “true.” Truth in science, however, is never final and what is accepted as a fact today may be modified or even discarded tomorrow.
  
  https://ncse.ngo/definitions-fact-theory-and-law-scientific-work

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by teatime101

[sucit]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

This is an inconvenient truth for the lock down enthusiasts.

I has to be said and repeated that the majority of the deaths are occurring in the most polluted and densely populated large area in Italy and perhaps in Europe.

I don't want even talk about electro magnetic waves and the already infamous 5G.

Now, we love our elders, they are our roots and we must do the best for them, but to scare the whole population into a fearfully forced captivity with no end in sight, is a bit too much.

Personally i would sacrifice my life if my children had to starve to keep me alive 1 or 3 years more.

You want an inconvenient truth for lockdown enthusiasts?

 

How about the scientific assertions that the virus is spread predominantly in homes. This gels with the the docs in the original video are proposing as well. 

 

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/coronavirus-transmission-chinese-study-shows-covid-more-likely-spread-indoors/

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by sucit

[chessman]

1 hour ago, steelepulse said:

Did anyone see the part where Norway and Sweden were compared?  They said basically there was no statistical difference in deaths between the two countries, yet the two are following completely different paths.  Based on total populations, there really is not statistical difference.

What minute of the video did they talk about this? Sweden has about double the population of Norway and just under 11 times more deaths. That is a huge difference, unless they are talking about a different death statistic?

[chessman]

6 minutes ago, sucit said:

ou want an inconvenient truth for lockdown enthusiasts?

 

How about the scientific assertions that the virus is spread predominantly indoors. This gels with the the docs in the original video are proposing as well. 

 

Nobody is a 'lockdown enthusiast', that is a ridiculous term.

 

I've seen a few people posting this argument but I don't get it. If you live with people, it is likely that you will spread it to them, if there is a lockdown or not. But if there is a lockdown you heavily reduce the people (indoors and outdoors) that you meet, thus the virus stops spreading.  

[rumak]

5 hours ago, BeltAndRoad said:

It's easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled. - Mark Twain

nobody's way of thinking going to get changed .... 

sorry to repeat myself.     but everyone else keeps doing it    lol

 

[UbonThani]

40 minutes ago, teatime101 said:

AGW' is a good example of what overwhelming scientific consensus looks like.

false

1 opinions are not science

2 there is no consensus

 

[steelepulse]

13 minutes ago, chessman said:

What minute of the video did they talk about this? Sweden has about double the population of Norway and just under 11 times more deaths. That is a huge difference, unless they are talking about a different death statistic?

They were talking about total number of deaths for the entire population.  Each country has 5 million or more, so is 2000 deaths out of a combined 15 million a huge statistical difference?  They say it is not a huge statistical difference.  Do the math.

 

Sweden 2200 deaths  18177 cases  total population  10.2 million
Norway  200 deaths  7500 cases   total population 5.3 million

15.5 million total population  2400 deaths== death rate .00015

sweden death rate .0002
norway death rate .00003

 

I don't think that is a huge statistical difference spread over the population.

 

 

 

This was touched on later in the video, feel free to find it.

Edited April 26, 2020 by steelepulse

[sucit]

7 minutes ago, chessman said:

Nobody is a 'lockdown enthusiast', that is a ridiculous term.

 

I've seen a few people posting this argument but I don't get it. If you live with people, it is likely that you will spread it to them, if there is a lockdown or not. But if there is a lockdown you heavily reduce the people (indoors and outdoors) that you meet, thus the virus stops spreading.  

There are no lockdown enthusiasts? That is a joke right?

 

About 99% of the population is telling people they are killing others for even saying we should be able to go outside. 

 

That is not an argument, it is science. The worst place you can possibly be right now is at home. 80% of infected are infected at home. Safest place.... outside!

Edited April 26, 2020 by sucit

[UbonThani]

39 minutes ago, teatime101 said:

I don't think you understand what consensus in science means. A fact in science is called a fact precisely because that is the consensus view. 

 

• Fact: In science, an observation that has been repeatedly confirmed and for all practical purposes is accepted as “true.” Truth in science, however, is never final and what is accepted as a fact today may be modified or even discarded tomorrow.
  
  https://ncse.ngo/definitions-fact-theory-and-law-scientific-work

 

Which means 1 the bogus consensus is not much of a firm "opinion" at all

 

Science was never about opinions. Only the co2 spruikers claim it is.

 

It's about rigourous testing to eliminate the impossible to leave only the possible.

[chessman]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

fearfully forced captivity with no end

Doom and gloom, Even Italy now has plans to end the lockdown.

 

Make sure you are doing enough testing, make sure you are clearly past your peak, open up slowly and have the capacity to test and contact trace the inevitable new outbreaks.

[UbonThani]

2 minutes ago, steelepulse said:

They were talking about total number of deaths for the entire population.  Each country has 5 million or more, so is 2000 deaths out of a combined 15 million a huge statistical difference?  They say it is not a huge statistical difference.  Do the math.

 

Sweden 2200 deaths  18177 cases  total population  10.2 million
Norway  200 deaths  7500 cases   total population 5.3 million

15.5 million total population  2400 deaths== death rate .00015

sweden death rate .0002
norway death rate .00003

 

I don't think that is a huge statistical difference spread over the population.

 

 

 

This was touched on later in the video, feel free to find it.

just delayed deaths with lockdowns. These delayed deaths will happen due to flu or corona. If flu not counted as corona so dosgy figs  d

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, chessman said:

Doom and gloom, Even Italy now has plans to end the lockdown.

 

Make sure you are doing enough testing, make sure you are clearly past your peak, open up slowly and have the capacity to test and contact trace the inevitable new outbreaks.

Honestly, being a bit confused by the events as many of us, i have conflicting thoughts, and i really hope that you are right.

Yet, the stubborn disposition of the politicians and the media makes me fear for the worst.

I wish i was confident as you seem to be.

Both in Thailand and Italy, around 20% , if not more, of the population is relying on tourism, restaurants and pubs for a living, it seems that this kind of business is wiped out for the next few years.

[cornishcarlos]

The lock downs have to remain in place long enough.

To make the majority fearful of another lock down.

So even the mere threat of lock down, has everyone falling into line.

Perfect way to squash any dissent.

 

[chessman]

8 minutes ago, sucit said:

There are no lockdown enthusiasts? That is a joke right?

 

About 99% of the population is telling people they are killing others for even saying we should be able to go outside. 

 

That is not an argument, it is science. The worst place you can possibly be right now is at home. 80% of infected are infected at home. Safest place.... outside!

And 'enthusiast' suggests people actually like it instead of people who are just following advice or instructions from doctors and governments. Is anybody enthusiastic about the lockdown?

 

I don't think you get my point, people spend time at home if there is a lockdown or not. People you live with will likely catch it if you have it, lockdown or not. So what practical difference does it make? A lockdown makes it less likely that you encounter other people so the r0 number goes down.

[mauGR1]

10 minutes ago, cornishcarlos said:

The lock downs have to remain in place long enough.

To make the majority fearful of another lock down.

So even the mere threat of lock down, has everyone falling into line.

Perfect way to squash any dissent.

 

And meanwhile the immune system of the majority is being weakened.

Diabolical isn't it ?

[cornishcarlos]

3 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

And meanwhile the immune system of the majority is being weakened.

Diabolical isn't it ?

 

That's why, for my daily exercise, I crawl 3 km and lick everything I pass... Healthy as a soi dog ????

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

That's why, for my daily exercise, I crawl 3 km and lick everything I pass... Healthy as a soi dog ????

Yes, way to go. We have to try our best to stay strong and healthy.

Btw, i forgot to mention that the social tissue is one of the illustrious victims of the lock downs, together with a widening gap between the "have" and the "have not".

"Divide and conquer" strategy at its best !

[chessman]

23 minutes ago, steelepulse said:

I don't think that is a huge statistical difference spread over the population.

I'm not sure at all about that. 

1st, It is 11 times higher now, but Sweden just had its week with the most reported new cases and the most reported deaths. So it is highly likely that number will rise, Almost certainly to 20 times, maybe even to 30 or 40 times.

That is a big statistical difference, no? You may argue in Sweden's case, all those cases are worth it because the economic benefits (as yet unknown) outweigh those lost lives. Or that Sweden will likely be hit less severely if/when there is a second wave (as yet unknown). I understand those arguments... 

But to start arguing that 1000s of lives lost are just tricks of statistics just seems wrong.

[Logosone]

14 minutes ago, sucit said:

He says in the video lockdowns are not shown to be effective at a statistically significant level at this point.

 

In other words, if Alabama locked down they do not necessarily show better results than Florida which did not lock down (not a factual example). 

 

This is the biggest misunderstanding at this point: people think sitting in their homes is working. We don't know that is even true yet!! It could be counterproductive to sit inside, as the doctors argue it may. 

 

But, we do KNOW locking down economies kills people. 

 

What the doctor said is exactly right, lockdowns are not effective at a statistically significant level at this time. When the Chinese study I mentioned examined specifically social distancing measures to the extent they were able to determine an effect it was very small and they emphasized it was at the beginning that the social distancing has the most effect, not later when the virus had already spread.

 

The problem with lockdown, apart from the economic ruin, is that of course once the lockdown ends, the transmission of the virus will just resume, the virus will come back. 

[UbonThani]

2 minutes ago, chessman said:

I'm not sure at all about that. 

1st, It is 11 times higher now, but Sweden just had its week with the most reported new cases and the most reported deaths. So it is highly likely that number will rise, Almost certainly to 20 times, maybe even to 30 or 40 times.

That is a big statistical difference, no? You may argue in Sweden's case, all those cases are worth it because the economic benefits (as yet unknown) outweigh those lost lives. Or that Sweden will likely be hit less severely if/when there is a second wave (as yet unknown). I understand those arguments... 

But to start arguing that 1000s of lives lost are just tricks of statistics just seems wrong.

flu kills em 3 months later

 

you have to compare 3 years incl flus

 

they wont cause they r justifying

[Throatwobbler]

I love how this thread is called follow the science then you read the comments and from the BS that most people are sprouting it is clear that following the science is the last thing that people are doing.

[Peter Denis]

12 hours ago, CGW said:

...

YouTube disallow any "news" or possible treatments for CV19 that hasn't been "approved" by "WHO" yes Bill Gates mob! another criminal act against humanity!

...

That statement is notably incorrect.

The video from those 2 doctors (who talk a lot of sense i.m.o.) is available on YouTube, as well as hundreds of other other videos that challenge the main-stream views and opinions.

In fact, videos that are not 'approved' and are taken of YouTube (or never make it there), use the label 'Censored by YouTube' as a badge of honor to boost their number of viewers on other channels.

Let me be 100% clear > I am allergic to the Dark Conspiracy Theories. 

And so I have some mixed feelings after watching this Video.  In the first 45 minutes of the video those 2 doctors talked a lot of sense and it is more than worthwhile listening to their arguments based on their experience in the field.  But in the last 10 minutes when they didn't stick to their practical medical expertise anymore, the creepy conspiracy beliefs raised its ugly head again.  I also looked at part-2 of that interview.  It's only 12 minutes and yes sir the dark agenda of the Deep State was there again...

For sure I will find myself between a rock and a hard place with this opinion.

The 'regular' science guys will dismiss me embracing the common sense medical approach those 2 doctors advocated, and the conspiracy guys will challenge my naivety for not buying the dark conspiracy narrative.

So be it.

 

[cornishcarlos]

2 minutes ago, Throatwobbler said:

I love how this thread is called follow the science then you read the comments and from the BS that most people are sprouting it is clear that following the science is the last thing that people are doing.

 

Ah good, you're back.... 

 

Care to follow up on your very strange opening post, by replying to my answer ? Post #4 to refresh your memory ????

[CGW]

7 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

That statement is notably incorrect.

Is it, watch the video and then tell me that!

https://www.foxnews.com/media/youtube-will-remove-content-goes-against-world-health-organization-recommendations-ceo-says

[Thailand]

39 minutes ago, cornishcarlos said:

The lock downs have to remain in place long enough.

To make the majority fearful of another lock down.

So even the mere threat of lock down, has everyone falling into line.

Perfect way to squash any dissent.

 

And as they reduce the restrictions many people are actually going to be thankful and say what a wonderful thing to do.

[chessman]

6 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

The 'regular' science guys will dismiss me embracing the common sense medical approach those 2 doctors advocated, and the conspiracy guys will challenge my naivety for not buying the dark conspiracy narrative.

So be it.

I think you are spot on. You can also see the follow up news report from a local news network. In the video the doctor talks a lot about how the health authorities agree with him but it turns out they don't.

[BeltAndRoad]

7 minutes ago, Throatwobbler said:

I love how this thread is called follow the science then you read the comments and from the BS that most people are sprouting it is clear that following the science is the last thing that people are doing.

If Neil Degrasse Tyson is considered a scientist then the very definition of science has become contaminated.