Any one balanced turbo in Thailand? Know how much?

[Coremouse]

Thanks to toyota reliashility, I'm now rebuilding the old CT20B turbo. I asked UK/US pros turbo CHRA balancing alone cost $60-100 there generally for a solid rebuilt turbo, or 2000-3300 baht equivalently speaking.

 

I contacted a Bangkok turbo distributor( Worldtech to be exact, bought parts from them before had great experience with them ), they say they can do CHRA balancing but could only give exact price once recieved turbo, and atmost would not exceed 12000baht. Well this obviously only a upper limit, and is too ambigous as 12000 baht I could buy 2 fresh CHRA... So wonder if anyone did this before could share their experience? Million thanks

 

And some rants... Dunno why toyota put freaking ceramic turbine in their turbo. After 26 yrs of service they do broke and when ceramics broke they sucked back in combustion chamber and destroys the engine, I got lucky there stopped driving immediately and the lump still runs smooth after in NA testing and holds compression. New wheel would be inconel, but if I couldn't get it to balancing properly I may just modify the header and throws in a cheap Holset or Hitachi, much reliable than the toyota s***

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by Coremouse

[canthai55]

Most - if not all -impellers come already balanced.

I would be surprised if they did not.

Rebuilt lots of them, and aside from new bearings and impellers, we did nothing.

Water pumps would run 22 hours a day - 7 days a week - from May til October.

Never a problem. Various engines from 3406 3408 3412 Cats to various Cummins, even the odd DD which were both turbocharged and supercharged 2 strokes

[Coremouse]

Yeah that's what I thought, the components would be already balanced of course, but an expert 3sgte builder stressed to me balancing would be neccessary, also I'm using new turbine shaft+old compressor wheel, not sure if I could keep stack imbalance minimal...

[pineapple01]

Maybe worth looking into a Twin Scroll conversion Kit

[Coremouse]

9 minutes ago, pineapple01 said:

Maybe worth looking into a Twin Scroll conversion Kit

It is twin scroll???? and fabricate dual wastegate manifold took me 3-4 weekends to finish

[pineapple01]

Was it worth it.?.

4 minutes ago, Coremouse said:

It is twin scroll???? and fabricate dual wastegate manifold took me 3-4 weekends to finish

Was it worth it?

[canthai55]

Here is a test of a single versus twin scroll Turbo

For the money required you must decide if the gains warrant the expense.

https://dsportmag.com/the-tech/twin-scroll-vs-single-scroll-turbo-test-the-great-divide/

[Coremouse]

3 hours ago, pineapple01 said:

Was it worth it?

Not sure, but new turbos(ball bearing vs journal, improved geometry vs outdated design, lighter housing vs nickel cast iron deadweight) would definitely beat it even if single entry. 

Twinscroll EFRs are superb spool even faster than new G25, but not every twinscroll is EFR????

 

The manifold I made is only for ease of maintenance not for performance upgrade though, my internal wastegate was failing and good ones are quite expensive

Edited May 8, 2020 by Coremouse

[pineapple01]

3 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Here is a test of a single versus twin scroll Turbo

For the money required you must decide if the gains warrant the expense.

https://dsportmag.com/the-tech/twin-scroll-vs-single-scroll-turbo-test-the-great-divide/

That was a informative read thanks.

[alacrity]

Why would a company to commit to a low price when unable to assess the level of refurbishment needed?

Especially after you've played with it.

[Coremouse]

1 hour ago, alacrity said:

Why would a company to commit to a low price when unable to assess the level of refurbishment needed?

Especially after you've played with it.

That's why I'm asking in forum and groups for actual experience. 

 

As a broken guy I must make precise budget plan before posting turbo, even 200 baht wasted could starve me for 2 days. Several UK company openly quoted the price 50-60 GBP if no major damage, and saw a post in US just did balancing the same mark turbo home rebuilt for similar price(two-plane). So wonder if anyone had experience in Thailand for reference/help that's all.

 

Afterall if balancing here is too much to afford I'll just carefully reassemble live with it, if it later brokes just ship a brand new hx35-type from China, would cost less than 5500 baht total and bullet-proof. 

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Coremouse

[canthai55]

Myself - I would steer clear of cheap Turbos.

If they fail - and it can be spectacular ! - internal engine damage will be orders of magnitude more than the cost of a well regarded rebuild.

Or purchase new.

 

[mistral53]

On the ceramic turbine wheel rant - why would a disintegrating turbocharger turbine wheel damage the engine internals?The turbine wheel is after the engine downstream in the exhaust manifold, there is just no way it will propagate backwards into the engine.

 

The compressor wheel, on the other hand, is a different story, but compressor wheels are always made from aluminum.

[Coremouse]

42 minutes ago, mistral53 said:

On the ceramic turbine wheel rant - why would a disintegrating turbocharger turbine wheel damage the engine internals?The turbine wheel is after the engine downstream in the exhaust manifold, there is just no way it will propagate backwards into the engine.

 

The compressor wheel, on the other hand, is a different story, but compressor wheels are always made from aluminum.

Headers are different than exhaust pipe. Collectors have highest pressure and exhaust comes in short pulse. I get lucky because I stopped drive immediately, and my manifold is long twisty equal length also helped. 

[canthai55]

5 hours ago, mistral53 said:

On the ceramic turbine wheel rant - why would a disintegrating turbocharger turbine wheel damage the engine internals?The turbine wheel is after the engine downstream in the exhaust manifold, there is just no way it will propagate backwards into the engine.

 

The compressor wheel, on the other hand, is a different story, but compressor wheels are always made from aluminum.

Take the bad bearing for an example.

Bearing seizes, shaft breaks, impeller hits the housing. Or bearing disintegrates, impeller contacts housing.

Being cast aluminum it will shatter into many pieces, and get gulped into the engine.

This takes no time at all - you might get to say "Holy ..." but the last word will be drowned out by the engine as it grenades.

Seen this before - it ain't pretty

[Don Mega]

10 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

Take the bad bearing for an example.

Bearing seizes, shaft breaks, impeller hits the housing. Or bearing disintegrates, impeller contacts housing.

Being cast aluminum it will shatter into many pieces, and get gulped into the engine.

This takes no time at all - you might get to say "Holy ..." but the last word will be drowned out by the engine as it grenades.

Seen this before - it ain't pretty

How does it gulped into the engine through an exhaust port ?

[impulse]

16 minutes ago, Don Mega said:

How does it gulped into the engine through an exhaust port ?

 

If it doesn't pump compressed air into the engine, what's it for?

 

[Don Mega]

4 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

If it doesn't pump compressed air into the engine, what's it for?

 

cold side typically goes through an intercooler then into the inlet... good luck getting bits of an impeller through that.

 

hand grenading a hot side impeller often results in chunks going out the dump pipe... never heard of them being sucked back into the engine through the exhaust port.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Don Mega

[Coremouse]

7 hours ago, Don Mega said:

cold side typically goes through an intercooler then into the inlet... good luck getting bits of an impeller through that.

 

hand grenading a hot side impeller often results in chunks going out the dump pipe... never heard of them being sucked back into the engine through the exhaust port.

Most will gulped out of exhaust( otherwise my engine would be destroyed already ), but fine ceramic dusts and debris can get in combustion chamber, have two 3sgte experts told me that, they're serious builders do engineering for a living and built many bullet proof big powers.

 

Plus the shaft/ceramic wheel joining part is a weakpoint very easy to snap that'll mess up compressor and guarantees a rebuild/or new engine.

 

Just recieved my inconel turbine today, does weight a lot ~214 grams for a small turbo, the 90%-complete ceramic one weighs 104g right now after "forced weight reduction". The thing is in recent 10+ years can't find any replacement 3sg turbine still use ceramic( silicon nitride to be precise iirc ), pretty much each single rebuilder abandonned ceramic shenanigans after tons of horror story, all original TTE race cars and EUDM use steel turbine as well

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Coremouse

[pineapple01]

12 minutes ago, Coremouse said:

Most will gulped out of exhaust( otherwise my engine would be destroyed already ), but fine ceramic dusts and debris can get in combustion chamber, have two 3sgte experts told me that, they're serious builders do engineering for a living and built many bullet proof big powers.

 

Plus the shaft/ceramic wheel joining part is a weakpoint very easy to snap that'll mess up compressor and guarantees a rebuild/or new engine.

 

Just recieved my inconel turbine today, does weight a lot ~214 grams for a small turbo, the 90%-complete ceramic one weighs 104g right now after "forced weight reduction". The thing is in recent 10+ years can't find any replacement 3sg turbine still use ceramic( silicon nitride to be precise iirc ), pretty much each single rebuilder abandonned ceramic shenanigans after tons of horror story, all original TTE race cars and EUDM use steel turbine as well

 

Thats put him in his place.!????‍????

[Coremouse]

15 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Myself - I would steer clear of cheap Turbos.

If they fail - and it can be spectacular ! - internal engine damage will be orders of magnitude more than the cost of a well regarded rebuild.

Or purchase new.

 

Of course haven't bought any yet but they seem legit to me, some Holsets are mass produced in tremendous volumn for Chinese diesel/truck/busses thus goes pretty cheap. Not ebay turbone or small factory copies

 

This one listed as ~4000 baht suppose 35% tariff( actually think China is exmepted )? and negligible freight would be around 5500 mark

Edited May 9, 2020 by Coremouse

[Don Mega]

2 hours ago, Coremouse said:

Most will gulped out of exhaust( otherwise my engine would be destroyed already ), but fine ceramic dusts and debris can get in combustion chamber, have two 3sgte experts told me that, they're serious builders do engineering for a living and built many bullet proof big powers.

 

 

 

I think your 3sgte experts might have their have had a rib or 2 removed so they can fellate their own and are feeding you excrement.

[Coremouse]

1 hour ago, Don Mega said:

I think your 3sgte experts might have their have had a rib or 2 removed so they can fellate their own and are feeding you excrement.

Dunno why big names in the alltrac/6gc group have to fellate me, alas I'm only a broken cheapskate, not like them running 4th spot on FOS shootout, making 8s MR2 drag records, building 1400hp on a s***ty toyota 3s block, etc. 

 

If you have turbo balancing experience locally could share as my post title begs, I would be most grateful. Looking for help not lecture here, if we could both agree there aren't any half decent builder in the world would use s***y ceramic wheels anymore on the CT26/20B turbo nowadays is a fact, irregards whether it could easily destroy an engine when shatters

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Coremouse

[Coremouse]

Also I've no experience but heard same horror stories on older GTR stocko ceramic turbine, tons of piston/head scoring after wheel shatters and eventually goes the block. Think Nissan had mandatory turbo replacement/rebuild every 60k km. 

[Coremouse]

Update. Unfortunate Worldtech stated their policy only do VSR balance on turbos they rebuilt( thus expensive pricing ). Means no bring-CHRA-get-balance service like UK/States tech companies do. 

 

Trying to contact another 2 company BL Turbo Suotepower and J-Tec Turbo by now. Would update later. Language barrier quite obstacle right now

Update: BL Turbo do balance for 2500 Baht but don't have CT20B jig housing. Sad.

 

On the other hand I just rebuilt CHRA and measured both axial/radial play within factory spec. 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Coremouse

[Coremouse]

Got my CHRA balanced. What I learned many rebuilders only provide balancing service for turbos rebuilt by themselves, very grateful @Turbodynamic for make an exception! 

 

0.05gmm static with no couple unbalance = 5.5N @ 100000 rpm, or 0.56kg force( 0.05g/0.001m*(100000/60*0.001m*2pi)^2 ). Totally within bearing spec and makes me very happy. My hand assembled was 0.21gmm static / 0.21gmm couple, about 8 milligram per inch, not too bad eh???? but may make mess at 100k 555

 

Also: don't forget bring your comp housing if do balancing. I only brought in CHRA at first and told comp housing is needed for high rpm balancing. Cost me 800baht more in taxi darn. ( I think comp housing usually not needed for balancing? Perhaps they just want to test with housing on to rule out badly rebuilt turbo with bad clearance )

Edited May 16, 2020 by Coremouse