Buying Land

[Chelseafan]

I've been offered 1 rai of land in Issan from a friend of the wifes. The land will be put in the wifes name.

The price is 400,000 which seems reasonable but am I right in saying that the wife won't own the land outright, i.e. she can't sell it but only has the title deed to build on it ?

 

[northsouthdevide]

That depends on the type of title deed. 

Its probably, and excuse My spelling on this, 'sur por kor', then the land actually belongs to the state (army), but is leased for free to a family and is able to be passed down from generation to generation. 

Its not meant to be sold, but there are ways and means to get around issues with ownership, and the locals know them all. 

If you buy this land, you must do so with the understanding that you can build a house on it, or use it to grow crops, but you are likely never going to sell it. 

Edited May 9, 2020 by northsouthdevide

[ChouDoufu]

there was a bunch of land handed out by previous governments to poor families for subsistence farming.  they have some kind of title, but are not allowed to sell, only pass down through family, and for agricultural use only.  allowed to build a small shack, not a foreigner mansion.

 

they sell it anyway and everyone's happy until the locality petitions the government to issue real chanotes.  then it gets complicated.

 

 

[ubonjoe]

Not specifically related to Isaan. Moved to the real estate forum.

[baansgr]

Nor sor 4(Chanote) or NS3 gor is the only land worth buying. All these other exotic titles for farming or for squatters are practically worthless if a puyai ban or government official are having a bad day...400k in Issan depending on location should buy you a plot without restrictions. Why would you want to waste Money building on land you could never sell...dosnt make sense.

[Foghorn]

I was offered some ground near Surin ,was a nice piece with river access and trees ,beautiful and quiet , I was told by puiya ban that it was government ground and was for the family to farm ,if I was to take over it he would inform the government and I would loose it . I thanked him and walked away , please do the same or eventually it will happen to you

[cornishcarlos]

The OP didn't state what land title is... 

Buying cheap sor por gor is still sometimes a good investment, if you realise the limitations. You can still make money from it.

Don't just dismiss land outright because of a lower title.

[maprao]

Depends.  I think it is expensive if it is sor por gor land. Even with main road access and water and electricity. 

 

Remember the government not so long ago seized and redistributed alot of this possessory land. They targeted people with 100s of rai not the little guy. But it can happen.

 

If you a build a house on it you should be ok. Never build a house in the boonies thinking you will make money selling it later. High unlikely. Consider it a place to live (forever).

 

Yes my wife has this type of land and a "farang" house on one of the plots. It is a headache. 

 

Hard to judge land prices in Issan without location, access water and electricity availability .

 

Yes it does go up in value but it gets complicated in the local amphur.

Edited May 15, 2020 by maprao

[AgMech Cowboy]

I bought three plots of land for my wife in Burinam. She's the title holder on all the land and we thought that we got good prices for all three. A couple of years ago, we wanted to sell at least one of them even though her family farms on them.  We couldn't sell them (at least not near the money for which she purchased them) and thus she still owns them. I never recommend buying land in Thailand. Buy her some stock in Amazon.

[1FinickyOne]

I am never keen on owning things w/conditions... and that price sounds a bit high even if everything is in order... why buy land you can't sell,... do things the right way and you won't have problems in the future

[1FinickyOne]

6 minutes ago, AgMech Cowboy said:

I never recommend buying land in Thailand

At least not if you overpay for it... which appears to be the case for you... if you had paid 10% of what you did, you probably would be able to sell it at a profit... 

[Billy Bloggs]

1Rai for 400k please is it in the heart of a city if it isnt it is way overpriced even if it had all the pluses like road elec water etc.

 

[Bangkok Barry]

There are factors such as it it easily accesible (ie on a main road, down a dirt track, completely surrounded by other land). That would affect the price.

[Alex2554]

400000 Baht/rai for rice farming in Isaan means ROI 80 years

[PJPom]

My wife has a plot of land In Kalasin area approx two rai which she had been saving to buy for years. When I came on the scene I was amazed at the seemingly cheap price so of course gave her a couple of thousand dollars to complete the purchase. I toyed with the idea of building the usual Falang mansion but looked into the legalities regarding tile of land and stepped back in horror at the lack of legal title and the complacency of local authorities. Result is she gets a small income from it every year as crops are grown but has a lot of pride that she owns something. For interest it is on a secondary surfaced road with water and electric at the gate on a slight slope with a river about a kilometre away, a few tall trees and usually growing cane or sweet potatoes, cost 100,000 baht

[tweedledee2]

400,000 baht for one rai is not a bargain, it's a farang price. I have 2 neighbors that offered to sell me 3-4 rai for 1-2 million baht farang price. 400,000 baht is nearly $12,500 and 1 rai is about .39 acres. Kanye West only paid around $14 million for a working Montana ranch with a home, buildings and over 1,400 acres.

[Stevemercer]

400,000 for 1 rai sounds expensive if it is just crop land. If it adjoins a major highway, is within a township, and is already raised/filled (suitable for building with power and town water t the boundary), then the price is reasonable (assuming it is chanote/freehold title).

[cornishcarlos]

We are always getting offered "bargains"... Why are we so lucky ?? Shame I'm not investing any more in Thailand....

[khunPer]

As others say, it depends of the title on the deed, NS4 (Chanote) and NS3 (Nor sor sam) titles are the only ones with real ownership, NS3 however limited until upgraded to NS4.

If lower titles you – or rather your wife – might only posses right to use the land for farming, or build a home. These rights normally shall stay in same family; however, even these restrictions apply, land is often traded by locals with Head-of-Village as witness.

 

Lower title deed farm land do occasionally get upgraded to a high title, therefore the paperwork of transfer is important, as the title deed might be issued in the name of the original family that was granted the right to use the land; this has been mentioned in various posts.

 

It might be difficult for a foreigner, but try to check recent previously selling prices for similar land. 400k baht sound a bit high for a rai, but it depends on deed-title and location; inside a village, or next to a traficked main road, the land prices will be higher per rai than for rural farm land.

Edited May 15, 2020 by khunPer

[473geo]

Ok as usual you have the reasons for not buying the land

 

If the land is chanote then your wife will have the deed changed to her name and own it, this means in the future if required she could borrow against it with a loan/mortgage from the bank, say to purchase more land for example

 

The 'investment' in land is more a case of not what you pay now, but rather what you are likely to pay down the line if required, hence a piece of land in the 'right' position is worth more as there may not be an option to buy later, and even if there is the price may have risen

 

By way of example a few years ago my wife was offered about 1.5 rai of land from a family member who needed the money at the time. The plot is 100 meters from our home, I would say we paid a little more than market value, but the documentation was all in good order and the land marked out and documented, we use the land for farming now but the 'investment' is that we have land where both our children if necessary can build a house close to the family circle.

Subsequently a couple of other plots were sold and other family members keen to duplicate our thoughts bought the plots for more than we paid for our initial plot. For our part we had no real interest in paying building land prices for additional land we would only farm. So for us the additional land on offer became 'expensive'

 

In the end I am happy with the way things turned out, we made a good decision for our requirements, seen to be helping out a family member in need, so all good.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by 473geo

[Scott Tracy]

In 2019, USDA stated farmland was $3160 per acre, on average. Of course, this depends a lot on where it is and facilities available, access etc. 1 acre is 2.5 rai. In UK, the UK with the same proviso, £7000 per acre.

 

Spending £10,000 (12,000 USD) on 0.4 of an acre in Issarn seems extraordinarily expensive, even in town. We paid 90,000 for 1 Rai agricultural land out the back of the house last year. Chanote land registered in the the wife's name. accessible by a dirt track, parallel to a canal. Now that was a bargain. People in the village have been asking around 100,000 plus for 1 rai, rice land with chanote, (3,000) and a trip to the changwat) next to the main road in the village.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Scott Tracy
Added US equivalent price, corrected bad spelling

[ajnamoon]

Yeah sounds like Farang price  My wife bought land in Issan  a few years ago  over 1 Rai with Chanote  

120000 baht  inc transfer fee  so even taking inflation into account  400000 baht is excessive   try for 200 or 250  only if has Chanote otherwise worthless

 

[Ireland32]

On 5/9/2020 at 8:38 PM, baansgr said:

Nor sor 4(Chanote) or NS3 gor is the only land worth buying. All these other exotic titles for farming or for squatters are practically worthless if a puyai ban or government official are having a bad day...400k in Issan depending on location should buy you a plot without restrictions. Why would you want to waste Money building on land you could never sell...dosnt make sense.

Plus 400,000 at this time , you can bargain better than that This Country in Recession 

[rickudon]

Land in a large town can be expensive. Easily millions per rai. Suburban - can be up to a million per rai or a bit more (assumes being used for building). If you apply European land prices for farmland, you shouldn't be paying more than 150,000 baht a rai. Anything over that is all about development potential ... 

[snowgard]

You can try to buy land from auction. They have very low prices:

http://asset.led.go.th/newbid-old/asset_search_map.asp

you must use a translate plugin, because only in thai.

Edited May 15, 2020 by snowgard

[Max Brok]

I bought 50 rai, sor por kor deed, 11 years ago for BHT 500,000. Can sell it for BHT 3,000,000 but the former owner does not sign and want to buy it back for the same price. it. So we can not sell it. We are lucky we always used  it for growing casave and the contract is older as 10 years. 

[Chelseafan]

On 5/15/2020 at 3:31 AM, maprao said:

Depends.  I think it is expensive if it is sor por gor land. Even with main road access and water and electricity. 

 

Remember the government not so long ago seized and redistributed alot of this possessory land. They targeted people with 100s of rai not the little guy. But it can happen.

 

If you a build a house on it you should be ok. Never build a house in the boonies thinking you will make money selling it later. High unlikely. Consider it a place to live (forever).

 

Yes my wife has this type of land and a "farang" house on one of the plots. It is a headache. 

 

Hard to judge land prices in Issan without location, access water and electricity availability .

 

Yes it does go up in value but it gets complicated in the local amphur.

Thanks for the reply

 

Selling the land isn't my consideration, in fact I see this money as a write-off. I've checked similar prices in the area and land ranges from 300-600k so I think I'm getting a fair price.

What I am more worried about is that some day in the future some beaurocrat can come knocking on the day and tell me that they are repocessing the land.

 

Land has good access to all the amenities, the only consideration would be to install internet which may be tricky.

 

I'm probably goin to consult a lawyer anyhow.

 

[Chelseafan]

On 5/15/2020 at 4:43 AM, Alex2554 said:

400000 Baht/rai for rice farming in Isaan means ROI 80 years

I have no intention of getting a ROI and I would never invest in Thailand to make money in fact as I said in a previous post I consider this as a write-off. This will be our home for life (I hope). I have other investments that (hopefully) will give me my income

[Chelseafan]

On 5/15/2020 at 4:29 AM, Bangkok Barry said:

There are factors such as it it easily accesible (ie on a main road, down a dirt track, completely surrounded by other land). That would affect the price.

Yes it's on a rural road (not dirt track) off the 2 motorway, some houses nearby but not populated, nearest BIG C is about 5km away. Water/Elec available to be plumbed in.

[Chelseafan]

On 5/15/2020 at 4:09 AM, Billy Bloggs said:

1Rai for 400k please is it in the heart of a city if it isnt it is way overpriced even if it had all the pluses like road elec water etc.

 

This is my concern also but looking at similar land in the area, it seems to be the right price. NR is about 30mins drive away.