Just had TrueOnline installed: Wifi faster than LAN?

[DUS]

Hello,

 

Yesterday, I had the guys from True install broadband at my condo. It is via cable (DOCSIS 3.x or whatever it is) and the modem/router they installed is the Humax HG-100RE-02. My package is 300/100 Mbps.

 

Now, I´d be the last person to say that I understand IT. I really don´t know a lot about the technicalities when it comes to routers, LAN etc etc. Mind you, I had thought that using LAN cables (CAT 5e and newer) to connect your devices (PCs, Android boxes etc) with the router should yield the best results (higher speeds etc.). Isn´t that true?

 

I think it is true, but that´s why I don´t understand why in my case the speed tests via Wifi yield better speed results than via LAN. Surely, something isn´t quite right, I´d think. But what?

 

Before the True guys installed the new router etc. I had 2 Android boxes and the TV connected to the old router via LAN (using 5e cables). Whenever I ran speed tests on either of these 3 devices the results were almost always identical in the range of 70-80Mbps down and up. So once the True technicians had everything set up, tested and left the condo, I quickly connected the devices via LAN to the new router like I had before with the previous one. The results took me completely by surprise:

 

1/ As "a reference" I did a test on speedtest.net using my iPhone and the 5Ghz WLAN: roughly 185 down / 90 Mbps up. I was happy enough with that.

2/ Tested the connection on my LG TV (connected via LAN) and the result was: 35Mbps (with the old router it was about 80)

3/ Tested the connection on the Android box (via LAN): same result, around 35 down whilst 90 up.

4/ Tested the connection on this new True Hybrid+ box: again, around 35 down and 90 up.

 

I tried this numerous times over the course of the day and the results were more or less identical every time.

 

Not understanding the rather poor downstream I initially thought there might be an issue with the cables but then again, that didn´t make any sense since the uploads were 80+ using exactly the same cables. So, at least in my opinion, no reason why the cables should cause the download speed to be below 40Mbps. In the end, I ran the same tests again on each device, once via LAN and then immediately followed via Wifi. Using Wifi the downstream speeds jumped from the 35-ish level seen when using LAN cables to a much higher level of 130 - 150Mbps. 

 

As an "IT dummy", I am puzzled by these results and wonder why the downstream speeds are so much slower when I use LAN. Am I missing the bloody obvious? Am I making a typical newbie mistake? Is the Humax potentially faulty? Is there something that needs to be changed in the router settings? Anything else? 

 

I´m happy to learn from you Pros here on this forum, hence, the long-winded post. 

 

Thank you!

DUS

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by DUS

[worgeordie]

Normally LAN should always be faster than WiFi,

does that router have gigabyte ports ,

did they test the system and show you the speed test.

regards Worgeordie

[KhunBENQ]

LG TV, Android box, True Hybrid+ box

 

To me none of the three sounds like a reference to test LAN speed.

Without having checked through datasheets, I assume that they have a slower LAN/ethernet connection like 100 Mbit/s max. And even then who says the embedded electronics keeps up to that.

And simply: LG TV and Android box just don't need those speeds. So they might have saved on the LAN connection. Don't know this True box.

 

17 minutes ago, DUS said:

iPhone and the 5Ghz WLAN

That this beats a slow LAN makes sense.

 

I have a desktop PC and a 3BB 1000/500.

I easily get 900+ down, 450+ up.

 

You would need a device with a true gigabit LAN/ethernet connection to test.

 

[DUS]

19 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

Normally LAN should always be faster than WiFi,

does that router have gigabyte ports ,

did they test the system and show you the speed test.

regards Worgeordie

Happy to hear that I did at least get the "LAN should be faster" part right. ????

 

Yes, the box gots gigabyte ports and when they tested the system I checked the results they were getting using LAN and their computer. They showed 280 - 300 Mbps when using the True speedtest site.

Edited May 13, 2020 by DUS

[worgeordie]

You don't have Adguard ad blocker installed ?,that

slows my speeds down by half.

regards Worgeordie

[DUS]

4 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

LG TV, Android box, True Hybrid+ box

 

To me none of the three sounds like a reference to test LAN speed.

Without having checked through datasheets, I assume that they have a slower LAN/ethernet connection like 100 Mbit/s max. And even then who says the embedded electronics keeps up to that.

And simply: LG TV and Android box just don't need those speeds. So they might have saved on the LAN connection.

 

I think I understand what you are saying. But, and here comes the IT Dummy again: In the past, these same devices showed around 80Mbps downstream results with the previous router (on a theoretically slower connection with previous ISP). So is there any reason why now on a faster package the results are less than half?

 

Don´t get me wrong, in the end it might not matter if Netflix etc streams with 80 or 35 Mbps. I´m justed surprised as I didn´t expect the speed with these devices to be lower than before. 

[dimitriv]

To test you have to keep as much as possible the same. You have too much variables to make a conclusion.

 

To test you can use a laptop with gigabit ethernet and wifi, test with both.

 

 

 

[DUS]

5 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

You don't have Adguard ad blocker installed ?,that

slows my speeds down by half.

regards Worgeordie

No, nothing installed and nothing changed. It was a straight swap: previous ISP´s router out, True´s new router in and that´s it.

[KhunBENQ]

It's a tedious task to find detailed specs for such an LG Smart TV.

The picture is from the spec for some "SP820" model.

For your model it might be different but it supports exactly what I suspected.

Neither LAN nor WiFi are "cutting edge" and what for? Even 4k can be streamed with max 50 Mbit/s (netflix says 25 Mbit/s).

Edited May 13, 2020 by KhunBENQ

[KhunBENQ]

Oops. Just noticed that the specs above are for a "Smart TV upgrader box".

Can you tell the model nr. of your LG TV?

[OneMoreFarang]

The cable and connectors and related hardware setting might be the problem.

I.e. something like this:

 

[DUS]

19 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

Oops. Just noticed that the specs above are for a "Smart TV upgrader box".

Can you tell the model nr. of your LG TV?

I sure can. It´s the LG OLED65E8PTA. 

 

Reading the feedback so far, I am amazed how many variables there are in any such system. Wow!. Personally, I had just thought in layman´s terms: "I increase the bandwith of my internet access, change the router but keep everything else unchanged, surely, the download speed should not be reduced by 50%." 

 

Well, it seems that thought was way too simplistic. ????

[treetops]

1 hour ago, DUS said:

Yes, the box gots gigabyte ports and when they tested the system I checked the results they were getting using LAN and their computer. They showed 280 - 300 Mbps when using the True speedtest site.

Did they check all the ports? It could be that the some of the ports are restricted.  Test this by using one device, connecting to each of the ports in turn and running the same test each time.

Edited May 13, 2020 by treetops

[RichCor]

Try retesting with just one device plugged into the router, then test again with each port, to see if it makes any difference. One of your devices may be slightly incompatible, causing the entire LAN to slow down.

 

[mrfill]

The LG tv has wifi and ethernet. Try each and compare - at least you will have a constant test device.

Ethernet should be faster and have lower latency.

[Kerryd]

I'd start with confirming what package you have with True. (You can register online with them as well: http://truevisionsgroup.truecorp.co.th/?ln=en)

Under Bills & Usage you should see a drop down box - select True Online (https://iservice.truecorp.co.th/bills-usage)
That will show you what your current package is.

I have the "True Smart Choice" plan (300/100mbs). 1 modem which feeds 3 computers now by LAN cable (and 1 telephone by WiFi). I was not liking the lag I was seeing on the laptop when it was on WiFi, even though it's barely a metre away from the modem so I put it on a cable connection as well.

I used to cast to the LG Smart TV but moved that device to a different TV in my "den" (2nd bedroom). I notice that when I cast from the laptop, there is quite the lag but it's the laptop lagging, not the TV. (And it's just the audio - I can see the same show on the monitor and TV at the same time, but the audio on the laptop is 1-2 seconds behind the TV for some reason. No big deal as I normally mute the laptop when I'm casting anyways.)
I don't use the internet features on the TVs as I don't watch them a lot (unless I'm casting something from my computer).

If your speeds are half of what was expected, I'd think that maybe someone put you on the wrong package. Or set up the wrong type of modem ?

My modem is a "True Gigatex Fibre" modem. Much fancier than the old black box. This one is white with 6 little antennae sticking up. (Note, I am not on a "fibre" connection, just the standard co-axial cable. Maybe they anticipate putting fibre on the Darkside one day in the future.)

Note: my main desktop and my main laptop are both "gaming" rigs, designed for playing online games with a lot of graphics like EVE Online. With this modem and internet package, I can run 4 copies ("clients") of the game at the same time without any noticeable lag and if I run 6 clients there is a tiny amount of lag (sometimes).
(Not as good on the Wifi though.)

Also, our IT guys explained how speed tests worked when we were in Afghanistan. Usually, download and upload speeds are what you might expect under ideal circumstances (i.e. clear weather and very low usage by other customers, on an optimized machine with an excellent connection). However, your connection is shared, a lot, and with every other active connection on your trunk line, the amount of bandwidth available shrinks. At a certain point (i.e. "prime time" for internet usage in your area) it can affect your DL/UL speeds (and speed tests) considerably.
(Whenever I start noticing some significant lag, the first thing I do is look at the clock and think about what day of the week it is to determine if 10,000 kids just got out of school and were firing up their tablets/phones/etc.)

Another issue, much harder to detect and correct, could be the connection between your modem and the ISP. This is Thailand of course and you've seen the nasty mess of wires hanging from almost every power pole in the country. One of them is the one carrying your connection.
Junction boxes all along the route. Some possibly with "less than quality" work done when installing new connections.

I tried 3BB a few years ago. They ran a new co-ax (of course) to the house from Soi Khao Noi, set everything up, tested it, worked great, they left.
Every day after that, I couldn't stay connected for more than 5 minutes. I'd be doing something and "blink" ! The modem would drop connection, then reboot (taking 3-4 minutes each time until I could access the internet again). 1-5 minutes later - same thing again. (12 times an hour on average.)

3BB even noticed the problem and they called me. Came out and changed the modem. Same problem. Then I noticed something. When the modem would "blink" and reset, I'd look out the window while I waited. I noticed that almost every time it happened, there was a light breeze blowing the leaves on the plants. Went outside and looked at the wires swaying in the breeze and it struck me that the problem was probably a bad line connection between my house and wherever they connected the line to.

Couldn't get them to come out and check it though. They didn't want to believe that it could be something like that apparently. I gave up on them, cancelled the service and switched to True.

True came in, ran a new co-ax (of course) and everything has worked fine ever since, regardless of how windy it gets (at least until there's a power outage or one of those rat's nests of cables catches on fire somewhere and knocks out service for a few hours). (And now 3BB's cable is another one of those "dead" cables hanging from the poles.)

So it's rare that a speed test will ever show what you think you should be getting, however, it should be way closer than ~50% of the expected result. Even on a rainy day at prime time.

[ICECOOL]

The speed of Wi-Fi or LAN is dependent on the quality of the adapter for each. Phones often have better Wi-Fi adaptors. Your Android box LAN adaptors are likely lower speed and quality. Also your Ethernet cable may be in need of replacement but it's likely an Android box limitation 

[SAFETY FIRST]

24 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

I tried 3BB a few years ago. They ran a new co-ax (of course) to the house from Soi Khao Noi

COAX..........its been more than 30 years since coax has been used for networking

[AsiaCheese]

Similar experience with 3BB 1Gbps installation. First and foremost, Ethernet cables can be "damaged" (low quality plugs and/or cables). Go for CAT6 and a known brand like Ugreen. Then, turn off QoS in the adapter settings. Also in the adapter settings, I changed from automatic speed to 1000Mbps/full duplex. 

[earlinclaifornia]

20 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

LG TV, Android box, True Hybrid+ box

 

To me none of the three sounds like a reference to test LAN speed.

Without having checked through datasheets, I assume that they have a slower LAN/ethernet connection like 100 Mbit/s max. And even then who says the embedded electronics keeps up to that.

And simply: LG TV and Android box just don't need those speeds. So they might have saved on the LAN connection. Don't know this True box.

 

That this beats a slow LAN makes sense.

 

I have a desktop PC and a 3BB 1000/500.

I easily get 900+ down, 450+ up.

 

You would need a device with a true gigabit LAN/ethernet connection to test.

 

Same LAN speeds for me. WiFI will be slower.

[Metropolitian]

Perhaps it is the QoS (quality of service) and/or bandwidth management in the new router kicking in.

Lowering the bandwidth on the ports, giving more space for other.

 

I had this on the router here, I turned it off and let the switch (another box) do that job.

After that, speeds were more up. Even on the LAN itself.

 

Not sure if this is the case with the OP, maybe other members can shine a light on this possibility.

 

[Kerryd]

2 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

COAX..........its been more than 30 years since coax has been used for networking

Sigh. Here we go again.

This one is from 2019.
"Unless you’re on a satellite-based Wi-Fi network, there are likely cables from an internet service provider that go directly into your residence. Not all cables are created equal, though. It might be a fiber-optic or coaxial cable"

"What’s a coaxial cable?

Made primarily of copper, a coaxial cable transmits data from place-to-place through electricity. It’s the technology that internet service providers started using when dial-up and digital subscriber line (DSL) grew outdated. While there are improvements over dial-up and DSL, cable internet doesn’t quite trump fiber internet. Still, cable internet is available in most parts of the country and often at a budget-friendly price."

https://www.allconnect.com/blog/fiber-vs-coaxial-cable

This one is from 2018.
"What is coaxial cable and how is it used?

Posted by Krista Tysco
Coaxial cable is commonly used by cable operators, telephone companies, and internet providers around the world to convey data, video, and voice communications to customers. It has also been used extensively within homes."
https://www.ppc-online.com/blog/what-is-coaxial-cable-and-how-is-it-used
 

Another one.
"DSL vs. Coax Cable Internet

There are two primary ways to get a high-speed Internet connection; through a cable modem or over a phone line.
 

How They Work

A cable modem provides a broadband Internet connection over cable TV coax. It works by using TV channel space for data transmission: certain channels are used for downstream transmission and other channels for upstream transmission. Because the coaxial cable used by cable TV provides much greater bandwidth than telephone lines, a cable modem can be used to achieve extremely fast access to the web."
https://business.sparklight.com/the-wire/business-internet/internet-speed-dsl-vs-coax-cable-internet

Another one from 2019.
"How Does Cable Internet Work?
Cable internet service uses the same coaxial cable network as cable television to provide your home with internet.

Cable internet service providers transmit data between servers using this coaxial cable, and since TV itself takes up only a small portion of the cable’s bandwidth, it leaves room for internet service to work within the same network."
https://www.reviews.org/internet-service/cable-internet-work/

Info from a local internet provider:

CABLE INTERNET SERVICE

Fiber to the Node (typically at the entry of Condomium), then use existing coaxial cable in the building to connect to your room.
https://upload.latest.facebook.com/pg/SurfInternetPattaya/services/?ref=page_internal

I could keep doing this but I doubt it would make any difference.




 

[SAFETY FIRST]

16 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

Sigh. Here we go again.

This one is from 2019.
"Unless you’re on a satellite-based Wi-Fi network, there are likely cables from an internet service provider that go directly into your residence. Not all cables are created equal, though. It might be a fiber-optic or coaxial cable"

"What’s a coaxial cable?

Made primarily of copper, a coaxial cable transmits data from place-to-place through electricity. It’s the technology that internet service providers started using when dial-up and digital subscriber line (DSL) grew outdated. While there are improvements over dial-up and DSL, cable internet doesn’t quite trump fiber internet. Still, cable internet is available in most parts of the country and often at a budget-friendly price."

https://www.allconnect.com/blog/fiber-vs-coaxial-cable

This one is from 2018.
"What is coaxial cable and how is it used?

Posted by Krista Tysco
Coaxial cable is commonly used by cable operators, telephone companies, and internet providers around the world to convey data, video, and voice communications to customers. It has also been used extensively within homes."
https://www.ppc-online.com/blog/what-is-coaxial-cable-and-how-is-it-used
 

Another one.
"DSL vs. Coax Cable Internet

There are two primary ways to get a high-speed Internet connection; through a cable modem or over a phone line.
 

How They Work

A cable modem provides a broadband Internet connection over cable TV coax. It works by using TV channel space for data transmission: certain channels are used for downstream transmission and other channels for upstream transmission. Because the coaxial cable used by cable TV provides much greater bandwidth than telephone lines, a cable modem can be used to achieve extremely fast access to the web."
https://business.sparklight.com/the-wire/business-internet/internet-speed-dsl-vs-coax-cable-internet

Another one from 2019.
"How Does Cable Internet Work?
Cable internet service uses the same coaxial cable network as cable television to provide your home with internet.

Cable internet service providers transmit data between servers using this coaxial cable, and since TV itself takes up only a small portion of the cable’s bandwidth, it leaves room for internet service to work within the same network."
https://www.reviews.org/internet-service/cable-internet-work/

Info from a local internet provider:

CABLE INTERNET SERVICE

Fiber to the Node (typically at the entry of Condomium), then use existing coaxial cable in the building to connect to your room.
https://upload.latest.facebook.com/pg/SurfInternetPattaya/services/?ref=page_internal

I could keep doing this but I doubt it would make any difference.




 

The only company running coax cable in Pattaya is Sophon Cable TV and other cable TV service providers. 

Edited May 14, 2020 by SAFETY FIRST

[SAFETY FIRST]

5 hours ago, Kerryd said:

I tried 3BB a few years ago. They ran a new co-ax

3BB running Coax...... Naah, nope, no, negative. 

[Susco]

7 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

The only company running coax cable in Pattaya is Sophon Cable TV and other cable TV service providers. 

True online is using coax for their docsis service in Pattaya and elsewhere in Thailand, as is AIS in certain parts of the country.

 

You probably have never heard about FTTx, which was used by every ISP in Thailand at one point, and is still used in connection where FTTH is not an option

Edited May 14, 2020 by Susco

[Pib]

11 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

COAX..........its been more than 30 years since coax has been used for networking

True uses DOCSIS (i.e., coax) and fiber optics for its high speed internet and TV....with high speed meaning up to 1Gb although DOCSIS can carry higher speeds.  Like in my Bangkok moobaan True first installed DOCSIS about 10 years ago....that system is still in use in my moobaan although True will now install a fiber optics line for new customers. 

 

Anyway, DOCSIS uses coax cable and still widely used but being replaced rapidly by fiber optics.  The DOCSIS main trunk line coax cable run along the soi power poles is about the diameter of cigar and then from junction points to the home they use pencil diameter RG-6 coax.

 

Also, before I moved to Thailand over a dozen years ago, my Hawaii home had DOCSIS (coax cable) internet....underground coax....nd from that underground coax and small coax was run to your home....and then coax within the home....you got your internet and TV that way....and I fully expect that Honolulu neighborhood is still using DOCSIS.  Nothing wrong with DOCSIS as it had huge bandwidth; it's just that cheaper and easier to install/maintain fiber optics....fiber optics is replacing DOCSIS...but DOCSIS which use coax is still in use.

 

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Pib

[SAFETY FIRST]

11 hours ago, Susco said:

18 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

The only company running coax cable in Pattaya is Sophon Cable TV and other cable TV service providers. 

True online is using coax for their docsis service in Pattaya and elsewhere in Thailand, as is AIS in certain parts of the country.

 

You probably have never heard about FTTx, which was used by every ISP in Thailand at one point, and is still used in connection where FTTH is not an option

Agreed, thanks for confirming my comment. That's what I said, TV service providers
 

They are using existing infrastructure...its cheap, old technology.

 

Some people want cheap, unstable connections.

 

Technology for me FIBRE OPTIC, stable reliable connection.

Edited May 15, 2020 by SAFETY FIRST

[SAFETY FIRST]

10 hours ago, Pib said:

22 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

COAX..........its been more than 30 years since coax has been used for networking

True uses DOCSIS (i.e., coax) and fiber optics for its high speed internet and TV....with high speed meaning up to 1Gb although DOCSIS can carry higher speeds.  Like in my Bangkok moobaan True first installed DOCSIS about 10 years ago....that system is still in use in my moobaan although True will now install a fiber optics line for new customers. 

 

Anyway, DOCSIS uses coax cable and still widely used but being replaced rapidly by fiber optics.  The DOCSIS main trunk line coax cable run along the soi power poles is about the diameter of cigar and then from junction points to the home they use pencil diameter RG-6 coax.

 

Also, before I moved to Thailand over a dozen years ago, my Hawaii home had DOCSIS (coax cable) internet....underground coax....nd from that underground coax and small coax was run to your home....and then coax within the home....you got your internet and TV that way....and I fully expect that Honolulu neighborhood is still using DOCSIS.  Nothing wrong with DOCSIS as it had huge bandwidth; it's just that cheaper and easier to install/maintain fiber optics....fiber optics is replacing DOCSIS...but DOCSIS which use coax is still in use

Don’t be fooled by these fancy acronyms, coax is very old technology, it is what it is, fancy acronyms just amuse the naive, the anti vaxxers, people that believe 5G CoronaVirus conspiracy theory.

1880: The original coax cable was created by English inventor Oliver Heaviside. Heaviside studied telegraph lines and discovered wrapping the lines with insulation reduced signal loss and made cables more durable. With this discovery, he created and patented the world's first coax cable

You’re sharing this so called high speed bandwidth with your TVs video signal running on a copper wire.

 

Coax is cost effective, its expensive to run fibre, so you got to weigh it up, cheap price or performance.

 

 

[Moonlover]

On 5/13/2020 at 2:38 PM, worgeordie said:

Normally LAN should always be faster than WiFi,

does that router have gigabyte ports ,

did they test the system and show you the speed test.

regards Worgeordie

This is certainly true in my case. I have the same True setup as @DUS and the download speed is much quicker when I connect the LAN cable to the modem. The time I really notice it is when I'm downloading from the BBC iPlayer. It goes from Tortoise to race horse. 

[Pib]

2 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

Don’t be fooled by these fancy acronyms, coax is very old technology, it is what it is, fancy acronyms just amuse the naive, the anti vaxxers, people that believe 5G CoronaVirus conspiracy theory.

1880: The original coax cable was created by English inventor Oliver Heaviside. Heaviside studied telegraph lines and discovered wrapping the lines with insulation reduced signal loss and made cables more durable. With this discovery, he created and patented the world's first coax cable

You’re sharing this so called high speed bandwidth with your TVs video signal running on a copper wire.

 

Coax is cost effective, its expensive to run fibre, so you got to weigh it up, cheap price or performance.

 

Coax is older technology but still widely in use....True still has a lot of DOCSIS primarily in the larger cities/towns.  Not like you earlier post where you said: "COAX..........its been more than 30 years since coax has been used for networking."  

 

Also, the TV signal running on the DOCSIS runs at a separate frequency from the internet signal so they do not interfere with each other...take away from each other. DOCSIS is shared bandwidth but all internet bandwidth is shared (i.e., start sharing the same trunk line which becomes the chokepoint) at some point between your home and the ISPs servers.....and of course after the ISPs servers.  DOCSIS, like fiber optics, has plenty of bandwidth available to where sharing is not really an issue anymore.

 

And fiber is less expensive (and much faster) to run than DOCSIS Coax.....fiber optics line is cheaper than coax copper line....and fiber optics systems running up and down the soi's are "passive" networks (i.e., no electric power/equipment required....passive splitters used) whereas as DOCSIS requires active networks (i.e., electrically power amplifier and splitters alone their lines).

 

Yes, coax is older technology....but being slowly retired for distribution of home/business internet because fiber optics is cheaper to install/maintain.  And for the five years or so I was on True DOCSIS system it's reliability/up time was north of 99.9%...just as good as my current AIS Fibre optics reliability/up time. 

During the big flood of 2011 where my western Bangkok moobaan was under a meter of water for almost a month the True DOCSIS system never went down since all of its network was high on soi poles, but people still on DSL internet lost internet day one of flood water arriving the moobaan since most of TOT's junction boxes were at ground level.