Chinese are now on the good list of visitors. How do you feel about it?

[Pattaya46]

5 hours ago, hackjam said:

Just reckon that the Chinese that visit Thailand are bottom of the barrel. And don't contribute much to the economy, many are factory workers that come on all inclusive tours //

Not true anymore. Nowadays many middle-class Chineses traveling with friends, renting nice condos through AirBnB, and doing a lot of shopping in big shopping malls. Many of them spend more that the now poor westerners tourists.

[Heppinger]

1 minute ago, Pattaya46 said:

Not true anymore. Nowadays many middle-class Chineses traveling with friends, renting nice condos through AirBnB, and doing a lot of shopping in big shopping malls. Many of them spend more that the now poor westerners tourists.

The new global middle class.

[Stadtler]

The wording of the poll:

 

Are the numbers reported by Chinese believable?" wasn't really about the numbers.  People don't believe numbers, they either believe or they do not believe the Communist Chinese Oppressive Party, you know the one, the one that sells organs from prisoners, and enslaves innocent Muslims.  The same Communists who have their boots on the faces of the Chinese People. 

The Communists who are oppressing the people are the ones who supply the numbers.  I for one don't believe them.  I believe they are lying.  I do hope I can say this freely here on ThaiVisa as it is my opinion and I'll guess, that my opinion is shared by many.

 

What about Taiwan? I believe their numbers. Why aren't they on the good list?

[lee b]

It doesn't really matter how I feel, what will be will be.

 

Any decisions regarding the return of the Chinese would have already been made weeks ago.

[RotBenz8888]

1 hour ago, lee b said:

It doesn't really matter how I feel, what will be will be.

 

Any decisions regarding the return of the Chinese would have already been made weeks ago.

And how the covid19 numbers will come out. 

[soi3eddie]

3 hours ago, Stadtler said:

What about Taiwan? I believe their numbers. Why aren't they on the good list?

Because they are already China (ROC - apparently) didn't you know that? (Irony). 

Edited May 17, 2020 by soi3eddie
clarification

[soi3eddie]

21 hours ago, Heppinger said:

Yes China will be the manufacturing and distribution hub of the Belt and Road Initiative, an initiative most likely planned following the result of WW2 and an Initiative China had no hope in being a part of if not for assistance and financing. Their roll in the belt and road will not be of dominant military power.

I don't believe Thailand will fall into any great debt as i believe the Thais to be competent negotiators, unless of course Thaksin is reinstated. I don't know why Malaysia rejected Chinese investment, what was the offer of investment for? 

OK. It's nothing to do with military power. It's all about control. Investment and non-repayment, or default on debt, leads to control by the Chinese. Whether that's ports, roads, railways or natural reources (mines, farming, fishing etc.) that's their plan as has been witnessed in Africa and Sri Lanka and probably Laos and Myanmar. Malaysia could see it coming so politely declined the Chinese offer. Vietnam are no friends of China. What will the Thai "leadership" do? Do you really beleive that the current Thai leadership could negotiate their way out of a paper bag? Wake up and see what's happening! Buying the submarines is small fry by comparison. This link was researched only as a response to your reply - I knew the issue but not the full text until now. Thailand with it's daliance with China risks falling into a debt trap.

[Heppinger]

6 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

 Thai leadership could negotiate their way out of a paper bag? 

If that were true then Thailand would have suffered similarly to Laos, Cambodia, Burma and Vietnam

[soi3eddie]

11 minutes ago, Heppinger said:

If that were true then Thailand would have suffered similarly to Laos, Cambodia, Burma and Vietnam

 

11 minutes ago, Heppinger said:

If that were true then Thailand would have suffered similarly to Laos, Cambodia, Burma and Vietnam

 

11 minutes ago, Heppinger said:

If that were true then Thailand would have suffered similarly to Laos, Cambodia, Burma and Vietnam

You mis-quoted me I said: Do you really beleive that the current Thai leadership could negotiate their way out of a paper bag?

I'll add: Thailand is somewhat stronger than Laos and Cambodia but if Thailand is not careful there will be problems.

Edited May 17, 2020 by soi3eddie
spelling

[Heppinger]

40 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

OK. It's nothing to do with military power. It's all about control. Investment and non-repayment, or default on debt, leads to control by the Chinese. Whether that's ports, roads, railways or natural reources (mines, farming, fishing etc.) that's their plan as has been witnessed in Africa and Sri Lanka and probably Laos and Myanmar. Malaysia could see it coming so politely declined the Chinese offer. Vietnam are no friends of China. What will the Thai "leadership" do? Do you really beleive that the current Thai leadership could negotiate their way out of a paper bag? Wake up and see what's happening! Buying the submarines is small fry by comparison. This link was researched only as a response to your reply - I knew the issue but not the full text until now. Thailand with it's daliance with China risks falling into a debt trap.

Have Thailand taken on such a debt with China? As I'm aware some countries have and can't repay.  How is the debt a trap? Are conditions not clearly defined within agreements? This term debt trap is a bit silly. Basically Countries ran by parasites are taking on Chinese debt and receiving small fortunes themselves service's of betrayal and treason to their own Countries.  When these countries can't pay that debt China receives Infrastructure and other goodies as payment.  Every ones happy, except the general population of course.  This isn't a new concept why are you surprised about this? Corporations also practice this with western governments, instead of debt trap it's called privatization.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Heppinger

[Heppinger]

12 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

 

 

You mis-quoted me I said: Do you really beleive that the current Thai leadership could negotiate their way out of a paper bag?

I'll add: Thailand is somewhat stronger than Laos and Cambodia but if Thailand is not careful there will be problems.

I did mis quote sorry. But i responded regarding your intended meaning

Thailand is not that much stronger then Laos and Cambodia that it could resist the combined efforts of the US and China if they wanted regime change. 

Remember the Khmer Rouge were supported by both the US and China, they are happy to work together to achieve genocide if need be.

[soi3eddie]

9 minutes ago, Heppinger said:

Have Thailand taken on such a debt with China? As I'm aware some countries have and can't repay.  How is the debt a trap? Are conditions not clearly defined within agreements? This term debt trap is a bit silly. Basically Countries ran by parasites are taking on Chinese debt and receiving small fortunes themselves service's of betrayal and treason to their own Countries.  When these countries can't pay that debt China receives Infrastructure and other goodies as payment.  Every ones happy.  This isn't a new concept why are you surprised about this?

Yes this is treason but the Thai people don't see it coming. How will they accept ownership of "state assets" by a foreign entity? For too long the Thai way of looking at debt is if you lend me money and I can't repay then you clearly have too much money and you have the problem. I'm sure that the Chinese will have clever agreements in place to prevent this and assume ownership of the assets. Wouldn't you? Doesn't make it right but shame on the leadership for allowing this to happen (if it does). I would be very cautious entering into any agreement risking sovereignty. As you are probably aware the Thais are very nationalistic.

Edited May 17, 2020 by soi3eddie
spelling

[Relocated]

On 5/16/2020 at 6:13 AM, hackjam said:

Just reckon that the Chinese that visit Thailand are bottom of the barrel. And don't contribute much to the economy, many are factory workers that come on all inclusive tours organized by their factory owners, the bus companies that transport them around are all Chinese owned-some sleep on the buses- as are the places they eat and sleep.

That is the typical pattern of south east Asian countries of male dominant culture. 

During 70's Japanese group tourists flooded all south east Asia following the flag of leaders. It was called sex tour and they were also from the bottom barrel. And 80's rich Japanese had spree of buying property in US which was a big controversy. 

Then Japanese disappeared from the picture and Koreans took the position of sex tourism in SE Asia. 

Now Chinese are replacing Japanese and Korean. 

 

If you pay close attention to all of them, you will notice the herd is always group of same gender. 

Westerners usually travel as a couple or family unless one is a bachelor. 

You will never see  flocks of same gender following a flag of Union jack or Stars and stripe.    

They do sex tour also but not as a group with a flag.  

[geriatrickid]

It does not matter what Thailand does, the Chinese will not be  arriving. 

 

Much of China's exposure to new infections comes from "travelers". Whether they come from Europe, or the USA, or Thailand, the risk is the same. The government of China will NOT put itself at risk so soon.

China requires mandatory self isolation even of its own nationals and it varies from region to region. The Chinese measures are serious.

 

For example, Harbin has a 28-day quarantine (14 days at government approved facility (GQ) followed by supervised 14 day isolation at home (I@H). ALL arrivals from foreign countries must have 2 nucleic acid + 1 antibody test showing. Other regions have 28-35 day isolation requirements with with 3 nucleic acid tests  and temperature verification.

 

I sincerely doubt that  any chinese national will want to travel under these isolation requirements, nor does the government of China want thousands of potential infected people  arriving in China. it already has its hands full with the arrivals from Russia.

 

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by geriatrickid

[Heppinger]

11 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

Yes this is treason but the Thai people don't see it coming. How will they accept ownership of "state assets" by a foreign entity? For too long the Thai way of looking at debt is if you lend me money and I can't repay then you clearly have too much money and you have the problem. I'm sure that the Chinese will have clever agreements in place to prevent this and assume ownership of the assets. Wouldn't you? Doesn't make it right but shame on the leadership for allowing this to happen (if it does). I would be very cautious entering into any agreement risking sovereignty. As you are probably aware the Thais are very nationalistic.

Your assuming Thai leadership and negotiators are inexperienced.  This is the default assumption on this forum.  And couldn't be further from the truth, as their survival over the last 100 years, relatively unscathed suggests.  Your experience in the way Thais handle money and debt will be the same as mine, Thai wife and Mother-in-law (trust me i'm with you on that).  The Thais running Thailand received the best private school education assuring their well versed in economics and politics and would suggest the survival of their families and culture would put them above Chinese leaders in terms of competence. The Thais haven't lost any sovereignty yet and i pray this continues.  

[Odysseus123]

38 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

It does not matter what Thailand does, the Chinese will not be  arriving

An excellent post with an intelligent analysis of the current situation-and one which will probably not change in the immediate future.

Well worth thinking about.

 

As a side note-I am constantly amazed by the number of white males who move to Asian countries and then spend their time obsessing about Asians whether they be Thai,Chinese or whomsoever..oh and Indians from the subcontinent as well as you would think that they might consult a map prior to arrival.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Odysseus123

[Tie Dye Samurai]

On 5/16/2020 at 5:33 AM, crobe said:

Good luck trying to enforce social distancing, or restrictions on people going into the shopping malls, when you have the tour parties coming back - it will not happen.

 

    

That is a very good point....the large travel groups following the flag bearer are not gonna fly in the face of social distancing and gatherings of large groups...interesting to see if the Chinese try to ignore it and what the reaction from the Thais in charge will be...

[Puccini]

"Chinese are now on the good list of visitors. How do you feel about it?"

 

I have no feeling whatsoever about it.

[Stadtler]

We are now hearing news that China is locking down another major city due to the new outbreaks within. Why are not on the list of bad countries?

[klauskunkel]

Quote

Chinese are now on the good list of visitors. How do you feel about it?

Since these lists are spawned by generals and their sycophants I feel numb, although I threw up in my mouth a bit... Don't know if that's related.

Edited May 19, 2020 by klauskunkel

[fredwiggy]

This is kinda related. I'm planning to visit America with my daughter in November, barring anything not returning to a semblance of normal. I know we can fly there as we are US citizens, but what would happen when we return, as we live here now? Would we, by the rules in effect now, have to quarantine for 14 days? Quarantine in our own house right? That would be ok by me.

Edited May 19, 2020 by fredwiggy

[drbeach]

On 5/16/2020 at 4:36 PM, tomazbodner said:

No numbers from anyone are believable. The only way they could be is if everyone was tested and every sickness documented. That didn't happen. So we're left with data on 1% of cases or less, and statistics for everything else.

 

I remember saying... There are lies, gross likes, and then there are statistics...

 

You can twist the numbers any way you wish in statistics by choosing what you include, and where you count it. For example: a man has a COVID and influenza. He dies. Maybe you don't even know which of them killed him. Does he go on COVID statistics or influenza statistics, or both?

 

Stats are twisted in other fields as well. Like Thailand only counting victims of traffic accidents if they are dead on the spot, but not if they die in ambulance or hospital. Nor if they die of accident-triggered health problem later. If they wanted to make number look high, they'd include all these numbers.

 

Hence it all comes down to agenda of those making the rules. If they want numbers high, they'll include everything that is in any way connected to the problem. If they want them low, they'll filter out whatever they can. Everyone government has an agenda. Rules are there to fit it. Hence none of the numbers are correct.

Precisely. Which explains why Laos refuses to declare any new cases in 35 days, after recording just 19 cases. Something fishy is going on in that secretive country. I'm not complaining though, just pointing out that things don't add up - I'd rather see the world get back to normal by under declaring, than by over declaring numbers, which is what the USA is doing.

[nausea]

Good for them. Of course, if the Farangs all pick up their bags and move on to a new destination, the Chinese will follow. What Thailand misses, is that the reason this is a hot destination is not because of some innate Thainess but because for Westerners it was exotic. I'm sure the Chinese are gonna get bored pretty quickly - Thailand, Vietnam, Camodia, Laos, Burma - same, same.

[Pattaya46]

4 hours ago, Stadtler said:

We are now hearing news that China is locking down another major city due to the new outbreaks within. Why are not on the list of bad countries?

China may see this event as a new attack from the USA...

as this new contamination started from a person coming back from New York. 

[chilly07]

A really bad idea to invite in those who have poisened the rest of the world. Clearly money is more important than Thai lives

[ChouDoufu]

On 5/18/2020 at 12:20 AM, Retarded said:

That is the typical pattern of south east Asian countries of male dominant culture. 

During 70's Japanese group tourists flooded all south east Asia following the flag of leaders. It was called sex tour and they were also from the bottom barrel. And 80's rich Japanese had spree of buying property in US which was a big controversy. 

Then Japanese disappeared from the picture and Koreans took the position of sex tourism in SE Asia. 

Now Chinese are replacing Japanese and Korean. 

 

If you pay close attention to all of them, you will notice the herd is always group of same gender. 

Westerners usually travel as a couple or family unless one is a bachelor. 

You will never see  flocks of same gender following a flag of Union jack or Stars and stripe.    

They do sex tour also but not as a group with a flag.  

bottom of the barrel?  by that do you mean the tens of millions of migrant workers that leave poor rural villages to work in the megalopolis factories?  they aren't the chinese you normally see on group tours.  few of those workers will blow their salary on trips to thailand.  they're saving up to have a comfortable life when they return to their villages after a few years of factory work.

 

your chinese tourists on those group tours are middle class - assistant managers, teachers, restaurant or shop owners, bureaucrats, etc.  possibly some formerly poor villagers who were given a huge lump sum when the local government moved them out of their village for some development project.

 

if you're writing from pattaya, you probably do see male-only sex tours.  i should think that would be expected.  elsewhere you'll see a mix - some families, some dancing granny groups, a collection of friends from some office, or a corporate sponsored vacation. 

 

the group tour is just the way chinese (mostly) prefer to travel, domestically as well.  it's part of the culture.  from an early age, everyone does the same thing in the same place at the same time in the same way.  following the rules to create a more harmonious countryside is rewarded.  individualism when you have 1.45 billion densely-packed into a relatively small space is not encouraged. 

 

they learn to follow the rules, and do what everyone else is doing.  they don't generally learn creative thinking or future planning.  traveling as part of group tour, where everything is pre-planned by someone else, is just more comfortable and relaxing.

[cheapcanuck]

Just so long that they stay 2 meters away from me I will be fine with it.

[Pattaya46]

2 minutes ago, cheapcanuck said:

Just so long that they stay 2 meters away from me I will be fine with it.

... and 5 meters for Americans  ????

[Traubert]

On 5/17/2020 at 8:07 PM, Stadtler said:

The wording of the poll:

 

Are the numbers reported by Chinese believable?" wasn't really about the numbers.  People don't believe numbers, they either believe or they do not believe the Communist Chinese Oppressive Party, you know the one, the one that sells organs from prisoners, and enslaves innocent Muslims.  The same Communists who have their boots on the faces of the Chinese People. 

The Communists who are oppressing the people are the ones who supply the numbers.  I for one don't believe them.  I believe they are lying.  I do hope I can say this freely here on ThaiVisa as it is my opinion and I'll guess, that my opinion is shared by many.

 

What about Taiwan? I believe their numbers. Why aren't they on the good list?

Ah. You mean there was a motive behind your poll?

 

I would never have guessed.

[Pedrogaz]

 I voted yes. And broadly speaking they are similar to other Asian countries with quite a low fatality rate. Fatality rates in Europe and the US are much, much higher 92or 4 times as high). Which indicates to me, two different viruses, or a virus that has lower virulence in Asians.

In the US the virus on the east coast came from Italy and has high mortality.....by contrast the mortality rate in California where the virus came from Japan is much lower.