Bought a condo with girlfriend, but how do I protect my deposit?

[varun]

If you've already parted with the 1 million, 

consider it a gift to your theerak and let that be a lesson.

 

Fat chance you will get the deposit back if the relationship goes awry.

 

If you still haven't parted with the cash, now is the time to raise the discussion with her.
It will be the perfect litmus test for how strong your relationship really is - 

Say you want 50% ownership of the condo and if she disagrees/gets angry, walk and don't look back.

[retsdon]

In reality, IF the relationship goes sour it doesn't matter what sort of agreement you have or legal documents you hold, you will always be struggling to get your money back.

 

They say that possession is 9/10ths of the law, and that's especially true in Thailand. Not only will the property be in your girlfriend's name, any legal battle will be fought in a foreign language and in a society where you have no status, and which is, sadly to say, generally quite xenophobic. 

 

So EVEN IF you find a legal device that theoretically gives you the right to your money back, in practice it will guarantee no such thing.

 

If I were in your shoes I'd just keep paying the rent and find something that gives you a better return on your money than a Building Society deposit account. You'll sleep better at night.

[chilly07]

Second charge/lien on title registered at land office

[thaiboss]

to late just pray every day  nothing bad happen in your relation ship ......KEEP YOUR EYES . i f she run  nothing you can do ....

[buick]

i agree with post #70.  if there is a problem in the relationship, she can rent the place to someone else (assuming she can't cover the mortgage payment herself).  she moves back to the type of place she had before.  and 'your' place is rented to someone else and neither of you live there.  she can't be forced to sell.  when the mortgage is paid off, she moves back in or keeps renting for the income.

 

what the OP proposes makes perfect sense in many countries.  but this isn't one of them.

[London Boy]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

So effectively,

1M3bht key money then 17k/month ....... how is that sound financial sense?

Because rather then paying that money to landlord/lady to live in a run mediocre apartments we pay it to own our condo which one day will be paid off. Surely that should be obvious. 

[sanuk711]

1 hour ago, London Boy said:

I’m 49 and she’s 32. Although I have more risk then hers, if I was to walk away she’s stuck with a 3 million debt! Also I’d rather pay the money into a condo we both live in and enjoy, rather then to a landlady who is so stingy and certainly doesn’t have my best interests at heart. I’ll pay 75% of outgoing but that’s reflective of our present incomes. And did I mention we will be doubling our living space?

I don't think you are doing the wrong thing.... but as you haven't brought it yet, then there is time to put into place something---You can not add to the Chanuk ---that will be in the banks name. but If she is willing she can sign an agreement that she owes you X amount of money, payable on demand, or within 361 days---what ever conditions you wish to put. Or Maybe she would be happier with A dec statement done by a lawyer recognizing that you have contributed X amount & the reason it is in her sole name is because of the bank loan.

 

The fact your not married is a + as you can not make a legal agreement with your wife. I have 4 friends who went through the court system & won --in as much as they got awarded 50% of the home--but they were married, this is a different case as she has no attachment to you. Also last year I was in a civil case with a Thai man---and got the result (yes it was long and painful--but it often it is in the west also) 

 

Obviously you are going to give the funds to her in a bank cheque form and keep all payments that you make to body corp with receipts in your name.

 

Yes they are little bitter on here re these sorts of posts--but amazingly most of them have come from a situation in the west where they feel they were screwed also.

 

Good luck --you seem to know your way around real estate---but are you sure in the present climate --the value of condos wont drop some more??

 

[London Boy]

1 hour ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

so you have 12 properties and b.... us here over 1.3 million baht ????

 

 

I said it would be my 12th property Transaction. I didn’t say I still own them all

[London Boy]

10 minutes ago, sanuk711 said:

I don't think you are doing the wrong thing.... but as you haven't brought it yet, then there is time to put into place something---You can not add to the Chanuk ---that will be in the banks name. but If she is willing she can sign an agreement that she owes you X amount of money, payable on demand, or within 361 days---what ever conditions you wish to put. Or Maybe she would be happier with A dec statement done by a lawyer recognizing that you have contributed X amount & the reason it is in her sole name is because of the bank loan.

 

The fact your not married is a + as you can not make a legal agreement with your wife. I have 4 friends who went through the court system & won --in as much as they got awarded 50% of the home--but they were married, this is a different case as she has no attachment to you. Also last year I was in a civil case with a Thai man---and got the result (yes it was long and painful--but it often it is in the west also) 

 

Obviously you are going to give the funds to her in a bank cheque form and keep all payments that you make to body corp with receipts in your name.

 

Yes they are little bitter on here re these sorts of posts--but amazingly most of them have come from a situation in the west where they feel they were screwed also.

 

Good luck --you seem to know your way around real estate---but are you sure in the present climate --the value of condos wont drop some more??

 

I think this is a good point about real estate, but it’s very tricky to know where the bottom of the market is. There are other factors in play as well, such as finding someone desperate enough to sell for less then they bought it for. A rich Thai with 30 condos will never sell to you at a discount whatever the market condition. The Farang I’m buying it from is making a paper loss but in theory a cash gain as he bought it when the £ was ฿70 14 years ago

Edited June 2, 2020 by London Boy

[maingmoom]

Don't ever invest in Thailand what you can't walk away from.

[Thomas J]

6 hours ago, London Boy said:

So if we ever split I want that deposit paid back to me.

London Boy

My next door neighbor bought a home, he is from Belgium.  The home had to be in his girlfriends name since she is Thai.  He went to an attorney and had a lifetime lease drawn up.  He pays her a small amount each month but she is obligated to let him remain in the home for the rest of his life. 

With yours, I don't know at this point.  The condo is likely only in her name as is the loan.  You could go to an attorney and have them draw up a mortgage that puts you second behind the bank.  That would mean that she would have to pay you should she ever sell the condo but if you split and she remains there it would do nothing for you.  

[1FinickyOne]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Most men marry to have sex, so it's kind of important.

Really? You invest all that time and money for a cheap commodity?

 

The only advantages to being married are, a family, if you are into that - - and companionship... 

[blackcab]

You can own the condo in joint names, which would mean owning 50 per cent of the property each. This is problematic, because you have not paid for 50 per cent of the property. You will pay 1.3 million and your partner will pay 3 million via a mortgage.

 

In addition, the bank would also have to agree to your being a joint owner, which in this situation they would only do if you were a joint mortgagee.

 

As such it is improbable that you would be registered on the title deed as a joint owner.

 

This then leads us on to the question of whether or not you could have an encumbrance registered on the title deed in your favour. The problem with this is that the bank providing the mortgage will insist on being listed as the first mortgagor of the property. This position then allows them to accept or decline whether any other encumbrance is placed on the property. In all probability, the bank will not allow another encumbrance to be listed as it would affect their ability to sell the property if your partner did not repay the mortgage.

 

The final position you are in is that it is most unlikely that you will end up with a real property right. The best you will be able to do is to sign a civil contract with your partner which would not be secured against the property. If your partner declined to not repay your loan then the only option you would have is to take the matter to Civil Court. This would be an expensive option, and there is a substantial likelihood that after years of protracted litigation that you would have to pay for, you would still not receive any repayment at all.

[blackcab]

Various off topic posts have been removed.

[Bigz]

Can't you have an usufruct agreement drawn up on the condo? At least she won't be able to sell it without your consent if I am right.

[newnative]

   My partner (Thai) and I (foreigner) bought a condo in Bangkok and we were both on the chanote.  The condo was in foreign quota.  We didn't use a mortgage, though, so not sure if that would work in your situation.  As others have said, I would consult a lawyer before doing anything else.  

[sead]

First I had to check was if you just joined TV. 2014 it says. After all the reading in TV you decided to first buy and ask later how to prote t your assets. Well it seems you're screwed unfortunately. Only if you can get her to sign some kind of agreement but I guess asking that would start a not so good relationship for you.. 

[couchpotato]

4 hours ago, Andy from Kent said:

Do you know for a fact that a legal document can't be drawn for a personal load guaranteed with proceeds from selling the property?  Forget about the bank.    I'm talking about a personal loan to be paid in the event the property is ever sold.  Maybe a legal expert can chime in but in the meantime I believe you have the wrong idea.????

 

 

I already answered this in my post #45..read it first.

[couchpotato]

3 hours ago, chilly07 said:

Second charge/lien on title registered at land office

See my post #45...Cannot do this until the loan is 100% paid off, as until that time, the Condo is owned by the Bank.

[couchpotato]

1 hour ago, Bigz said:

Can't you have an usufruct agreement drawn up on the condo? At least she won't be able to sell it without your consent if I am right.

No because she doesn't own it..the bank does until the Loan is paid off.

[couchpotato]

1 hour ago, newnative said:

   My partner (Thai) and I (foreigner) bought a condo in Bangkok and we were both on the chanote.  The condo was in foreign quota.  We didn't use a mortgage, though, so not sure if that would work in your situation.  As others have said, I would consult a lawyer before doing anything else.  

You bring up a good point about the foreign quota. OP will need to research that, although until the loan is paid it is a mute point.

[Tropposurfer]

You have no legal rights at all from what my very hi-so perfect English speaking thai lawyer buddy told me. The thing he explained was the notion of a share (as we westerners understand it) won’t hold any water whatsoever should the relationship go south in a Thai court. Especially if there is the slightest opposition from her, or she says it will disadvantage her should things go south.

The moment you sign those papers ... legally lock tight it’s hers, all of it. You’re nuts in my opinion to do this.

use your money buy it. Don’t go into a handshake partnership with any Thai.

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, London Boy said:

Because rather then paying that money to landlord/lady to live in a run mediocre apartments we pay it to own our condo which one day will be paid off. Surely that should be obvious. 

Unfortunately it's not 'our' condo, it's 'her' condo, and you're doing most of the paying.

Now if it were really 'your' condo, I might agree with you.

 

What Tropo says, you want a condo, buy a smaller one in your name.

Let her help buy 'your' condo ........... I'm betting she'd leave you if you tried that.

Edited June 2, 2020 by BritManToo

[Jenkins9039]

9 hours ago, PatchinExPat said:

You better find a good trust worthy Thai lawyer now

later will be to late.

I don't know who that would be, maybe ask for lawyer 

recommendations rather than legal advice on here.

It is merely 1.3m THB, if it goes south, chalk it up to experience, most people spend this on lifestyle living over 3 yrs.

[DaRoadrunner]

6 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I'd guess the bank won't lend to a foreigner. 

Banks will loan to a farang. The OP needs to find a good lawyer. The words “good” and “lawyer” do not belong in the same sentence. Maybe the best we could do for him is start a list of lawyers that we have had a good experience with. Could be a very short list!

[London Boy]

5 hours ago, blackcab said:

You can own the condo in joint names, which would mean owning 50 per cent of the property each. This is problematic, because you have not paid for 50 per cent of the property. You will pay 1.3 million and your partner will pay 3 million via a mortgage.

 

In addition, the bank would also have to agree to your being a joint owner, which in this situation they would only do if you were a joint mortgagee.

 

As such it is improbable that you would be registered on the title deed as a joint owner.

 

This then leads us on to the question of whether or not you could have an encumbrance registered on the title deed in your favour. The problem with this is that the bank providing the mortgage will insist on being listed as the first mortgagor of the property. This position then allows them to accept or decline whether any other encumbrance is placed on the property. In all probability, the bank will not allow another encumbrance to be listed as it would affect their ability to sell the property if your partner did not repay the mortgage.

 

The final position you are in is that it is most unlikely that you will end up with a real property right. The best you will be able to do is to sign a civil contract with your partner which would not be secured against the property. If your partner declined to not repay your loan then the only option you would have is to take the matter to Civil Court. This would be an expensive option, and there is a substantial likelihood that after years of protracted litigation that you would have to pay for, you would still not receive any repayment at all.

Thanks Black Cab. That’s the most sensible advice I’ve received. I get the feeling you’re a practicing lawyer or a retired lawyer?

[Max69xl]

10 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

They are not married it is his GF.

Well,even worse.

[Catkiwi]

9 hours ago, London Boy said:

Actually that's not quite true. I bought a house in New Zealand with my ex wife. We bought it in the name of a limited company and the company took a loan from me, and when we unfortunately divorced, the loan had to be paid back. Houses in Auckland are quite pricey and the deposit was $210,000 so it was well worth paying for the legal work before hand. However both the loan, title and limited company were in joint names, so slightly different scenario.

It is a condo so it can be in a farang name or in joint names. If you get divorced you would have to sell and split 50 / 50 unless either of you could buy the other half out. Until the mortgage is paid off the bank will hold title so the condo would have to be sold, the bank would take what ever it is owed and maybe, what ever is left gets handed out. I know you have been divorced and had a property split before so will be on alert but if you have that much doubt about this relationship, don't even go there. 

[blackcab]

Just to clarify about ownership and mortgages:

 

If real estate such as land or a condo is purchased using money obtained from a mortgage, the property is not owned by the mortgagor. The property is owned by the mortgagee. In other words, the bank does not own the property.

 

The legal state of affairs is that the bank has an encumbrance that is secured on the property. This encumbrance gives the bank several protections which are designed to ensure that they get repaid according to the contract between the mortgagor and the mortgagee.

 

Crucial distinctions are that you do not need the bank's permission to improve the property and you do not need the bank's permission to sell the property as long as the sale results in the full and final payment of the mortgage secured against the property. Clearly, you cannot sell the property and not repay the bank in full as that would mean the bank would have no repayment and also no security, which is not a fair and reasonable situation.

[whaleboneman]

3 hours ago, Catkiwi said:

It is a condo so it can be in a farang name or in joint names. If you get divorced you would have to sell and split 50 / 50 unless either of you could buy the other half out. Until the mortgage is paid off the bank will hold title so the condo would have to be sold, the bank would take what ever it is owed and maybe, what ever is left gets handed out. I know you have been divorced and had a property split before so will be on alert but if you have that much doubt about this relationship, don't even go there. 

You don't know that it can be in a foreign name - some condos can only be owned by Thais.

They are not married so divorce is unlikely.