Bought a condo with girlfriend, but how do I protect my deposit?

[London Boy]

17 minutes ago, samran said:

That's well and good, and if you manage to make a similar return here i'll be the first to congratulate you.

 

There is one glaring difference - you had formal property rights on the place in the UK. You'll have no recourse to your money here.

That is very true, but like I say nothing ventured nothing gained. I've dated many women here who I wouldnt buy a 2nd hand scooter with, let alone a condo. I would say this one is definitley a step above my previous expereinces. I'm going into it with my eyes open, and if it dosn't work out, I'll have no one to blame but myself. Having said all that, I'd still like to have a way to prtect my deposit.

[London Boy]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

So you're comparing a property you can buy in your name in a country in which you have the right to live .......

With giving a girlfriend money to buy a place in her name in a country where you can be arrested and deported forever over the joint your gf left in your jacket pocket before she called the cops.

 

Not to mention COVID, a new player in town, where all foreigners can be refused entry for as long as the government feels like.

 

PS

Living with a woman is an easy way to lose a property in almost any country.

I lost my 600,000 pound home in the UK with unexpected ease to the woman I loved.

If only I'd rented ............

I hear what you're saying. I too have been through a divorce, but you can't let past experiences scar you. My ex wife (in New Zeland) was a qualified Barrister. When we seperated she took me to the High Court of New Zealand claiming half of all my assests. Despite her profession I won for two reasons:

1. Assests in the Uk were beyond NZ court jurisdiction

2. Our House in Auckland was bought with a $210,000 loan from myself to the limited company we bought the house through (which itself was equity from a flat in London secured through a remortgage). So she ended up just getting half of the increase in equity. We bought it for $600,000 in 2007 and it was value at 1,200,000. But I was still better of if we just rented for 7 years.

So my point is evey relationship is a risk, and no one has a crystal ball. But you can mitigate those risks, which is why I'm trying to find if there's a way to protect my deposit. ALthough it would seem my options are limited.

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, London Boy said:

I hear what you're saying. I too have been through a divorce, but you can't let past experiences scar you. My ex wife (in New Zeland) was a qualified Barrister. When we seperated she took me to the High Court of New Zealand claiming half of all my assests. Despite her profession I won for two reasons:

1. Assests in the Uk were beyond NZ court jurisdiction

2. Our House in Auckland was bought with a $210,000 loan from myself to the limited company we bought the house through (which itself was equity from a flat in London secured through a remortgage). So she ended up just getting half of the increase in equity. We bought it for $600,000 in 2007 and it was value at 1,200,000. But I was still better of if we just rented for 7 years.

So my point is evey relationship is a risk, and no one has a crystal ball. But you can mitigate those risks, which is why I'm trying to find if there's a way to protect my deposit. ALthough it would seem my options are limited.

Your post includes a question and asks for advice. Any options you may have will be revealed by a decent law firm, after you explain your particular and entire situation. This advice has already been offered but you don't seem interested. So, I wonder why you asked in the first place?

[London Boy]

28 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Your post includes a question and asks for advice. Any options you may have will be revealed by a decent law firm, after you explain your particular and entire situation. This advice has already been offered but you don't seem interested. So, I wonder why you asked in the first place?

I'm very interested and also been to see a lawyer during the discussion and already posted his advice for others in a similar position. You are yet another contributor who hasn't read the full thread.

[samran]

1 hour ago, London Boy said:

That is very true, but like I say nothing ventured nothing gained. I've dated many women here who I wouldnt buy a 2nd hand scooter with, let alone a condo. I would say this one is definitley a step above my previous expereinces. I'm going into it with my eyes open, and if it dosn't work out, I'll have no one to blame but myself. Having said all that, I'd still like to have a way to prtect my deposit.

Buy it outright yourself. You’ve got equity in the Uk. Get a small loan against that and purchase outright. 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, London Boy said:

I'm very interested and also been to see a lawyer during the discussion and already posted his advice for others in a similar position. You are yet another contributor who hasn't read the full thread.

I've read it as far as it goes. You mentioned speaking to an English trained lawyer. His advice that "such a legal document" has the primary purpose of cementing "the idea in her mind that the deposit is not joint property" seems ridiculous to me. Whatever your g/f has in her mind has no bearing on the legalities of the matter. A deposit is a deposit - gone in 60 seconds to the seller and it will be hard to recover. The idea 50% of the purchase price so your name is on the land registry documents is probably the only sensible alternative. 

 

The above is no substitute for formal (paid) legal advice. I have offered suggestions in good faith but your blithe thanklessness ensures that I won't be reading any more of this nonsense.  

[farang51]

1 hour ago, samran said:

Buy it outright yourself. You’ve got equity in the Uk. Get a small loan against that and purchase outright. 

Finally! I read the whole thread wondering why nobody suggested this. When you (London Boy) cannot get a loan in Thailand, get one in your own country if possible. I would never ever buy a condo in someone else's name; not in my own country and certainly not in Thailand - there's a reason so many in here are bitter and don't trust the girls.

 

If you cannot get the title in your name, you are better off renting. You are not saving money when paying 1,3 million extra.

[Pravda]

2 hours ago, samran said:

Buy it outright yourself. You’ve got equity in the Uk. Get a small loan against that and purchase outright. 

 

Yep, this.

 

I have been reading the OP and it makes absolutely zero sense to me.

 

It's the equivalent of giving a random stranger 1.3 million baht back home to help them with mortgage,

 

If they were married that would be another story. Thailand does have some protection for married couples even if they are foreigners. 

[Elkski]

I can say one thing for sure.   finding a Thai woman  with a condo  30%- half paid off makes her an attractive score for many men.   Can OP compete?

the get married prior  to signing the final  note  sounds like your best bet.  Just act so happy amd tell her  now is the time.   All thai women would jump at chance  to be  married.    if she balks  you have  your  answer.  get a prenup to protect  all your assets prior to marriage.   

[BritManToo]

15 minutes ago, Elkski said:

I can say one thing for sure.   finding a Thai woman  with a condo  30%- half paid off makes her an attractive score for many men.   Can OP compete?

the get married prior  to signing the final  note  sounds like your best bet.  Just act so happy amd tell her  now is the time.   All thai women would jump at chance  to be  married.    if she balks  you have  your  answer.  get a prenup to protect  all your assets prior to marriage.   

Not sure if I'd describe a Thai woman with a 22k/month debt as an 'attractive score'

Assuming she wants money for banging her 'on top' of the loan repayments .... over 30k/month maybe 40k.

 

I did it, but not with as high a risk as the OP.

Mine was supposed to get a 90% home loan, but by the end of the deal I was paying 300k deposit on a 1.8M house.

Repayments 11k/month over 27 years. No documents to protect myself apart from the marriage licence, and property law relating to property purchases paid during marriage. I make all the repayments from my bank account, and keep the receipts.

 

Not that I'm bothered about 300k ........ but 1M+ risk ....... no way.

[chrisandsu]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

 

I did it, but not with as high a risk as the OP.

Mine was supposed to get a 90% home loan, but by the end of the deal I was paying 300k deposit on a 1.8M house.

Repayments 11k/month over 27 years. No documents to protect myself apart from the marriage licence, and property law relating to property purchases paid during marriage. I make all the repayments from my bank account, and keep the receipts.

 

Not that I'm bothered about 300k ........ but 1M+ risk ....... no way.

I agree with this . Put her in a position so she can’t afford to kick you out . Do not pay it off early . Which in principle means you will be paying interest mainly (normally the first 10 years of the loan) which would effectively mean you have been renting again ... 

[DrJack54]

8 hours ago, nauseus said:

I've read it as far as it goes. You mentioned speaking to an English trained lawyer. His advice that "such a legal document" has the primary purpose of cementing "the idea in her mind that the deposit is not joint property" seems ridiculous to me.

Sorry if just pinched your post. The "lawyer" joke is correct.

Rather that start new thread could I ask members a related question as this active post.

So similar to OP, I wish to purchase property. So how do I transfer 4 mil thb from AU while I'm in Thailand. 

Sounds simple but it's not. 

I have used OFX in the past but limits apply from au banks per day. Meaning au bank to OFX. 

Advice appreciated. 

 

 

[DaRoadrunner]

The number of ways a woman can cost you money never fails to amaze. But this thread has put a whole new twist on it. Why stick your neck in a financial noose over a woman? Little head doing the thinking for the big head again?

 

Hasta la vista babe.

[scubascuba3]

7 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Sorry if just pinched your post. The "lawyer" joke is correct.

Rather that start new thread could I ask members a related question as this active post.

So similar to OP, I wish to purchase property. So how do I transfer 4 mil thb from AU while I'm in Thailand. 

Sounds simple but it's not. 

I have used OFX in the past but limits apply from au banks per day. Meaning au bank to OFX. 

Advice appreciated. 

 

 

Why can't you send smaller amounts? Transferwise or bank transfer. Test with smaller amounts first to ensure it's foreign and you can get and docs needed

[London Boy]

11 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Sorry if just pinched your post. The "lawyer" joke is correct.

Rather that start new thread could I ask members a related question as this active post.

So similar to OP, I wish to purchase property. So how do I transfer 4 mil thb from AU while I'm in Thailand. 

Sounds simple but it's not. 

I have used OFX in the past but limits apply from au banks per day. Meaning au bank to OFX. 

Advice appreciated. 

 

 

I've used MoneyCorp and TransferWise to bring over funds, although not all at once. around £10k a day over a month

 

[London Boy]

11 hours ago, chrisandsu said:

I agree with this . Put her in a position so she can’t afford to kick you out . Do not pay it off early . Which in principle means you will be paying interest mainly (normally the first 10 years of the loan) which would effectively mean you have been renting again ... 

Thats not bad advice, but the point everyone is missing is buying your own place means having a home not just a place to live. Buying your own sofas, bed, TV etc. Most Thai Landlords dont spend too much on their rentals.

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, London Boy said:

Thats not bad advice, but the point everyone is missing is buying your own place means having a home not just a place to live. Buying your own sofas, bed, TV etc. Most Thai Landlords dont spend too much on their rentals.

Plenty of unfurnished houses for rent.

[Pravda]

1 hour ago, London Boy said:

Thats not bad advice, but the point everyone is missing is buying your own place means having a home not just a place to live. Buying your own sofas, bed, TV etc. Most Thai Landlords dont spend too much on their rentals.

 

A few things to consider before plonking 1,3mil down the toilet.

 

1. Buying real estate in a major city is always a good idea and the prices over time always go up, however, due to extremely high Thai baht is it really worth it for a foreigner? My wife bought a condo before I met her. She lost about 200,000 baht on it (but she was renting it and the tenant basically paid for the loan). However, if she converted to say Canadian dollar she still made out like a bandit.  Ask your Thai girlfriend to watch the 6pm news (TNN16) with you and translate. It will tell you a lot about Thai economy and where it is headed. I am sure the currency devaluation is coming. Big time.

 

2. The condo fees look very high for Thailand. 3000 a month you have to wonder how many Thais will be paying this. In my new 2 year old shoebox condo (The Base) The maintenance fees are 1/4 of that and I keep seeing notices about water electric cut because people are not paying. The older the building gets the higher the maintenance fees will be in the future.... or there simply won't be any maintenance which will push the prices down. Generally if you want to make money on a condo you should get in very early and sell it before the building hits a 10 year mark. Rich Chinese HK, Japanese who buy condos in Thailand don't buy into older buildings. They are used to live in small spaces, so even if they return they won't be buying old properties.

 

3. Watched the same news yesterday (TNN) about a new condo project giving a free 5 year loan (live free for 5 years as they called it) or free Honda Civic. Should tell you a lot about the current market situation.

 

4. Thailand is not your country. You may be politely asked to leave at any time. Or if you get really sick, you may want to go to your home country for treatment. How long will it take to sell "your" condo?

 

 

 

 

[London Boy]

1 hour ago, Pravda said:

 

A few things to consider before plonking 1,3mil down the toilet.

 

1. Buying real estate in a major city is always a good idea and the prices over time always go up, however, due to extremely high Thai baht is it really worth it for a foreigner? My wife bought a condo before I met her. She lost about 200,000 baht on it (but she was renting it and the tenant basically paid for the loan). However, if she converted to say Canadian dollar she still made out like a bandit.  Ask your Thai girlfriend to watch the 6pm news (TNN16) with you and translate. It will tell you a lot about Thai economy and where it is headed. I am sure the currency devaluation is coming. Big time.

 

2. The condo fees look very high for Thailand. 3000 a month you have to wonder how many Thais will be paying this. In my new 2 year old shoebox condo (The Base) The maintenance fees are 1/4 of that and I keep seeing notices about water electric cut because people are not paying. The older the building gets the higher the maintenance fees will be in the future.... or there simply won't be any maintenance which will push the prices down. Generally if you want to make money on a condo you should get in very early and sell it before the building hits a 10 year mark. Rich Chinese HK, Japanese who buy condos in Thailand don't buy into older buildings. They are used to live in small spaces, so even if they return they won't be buying old properties.

 

3. Watched the same news yesterday (TNN) about a new condo project giving a free 5 year loan (live free for 5 years as they called it) or free Honda Civic. Should tell you a lot about the current market situation.

 

4. Thailand is not your country. You may be politely asked to leave at any time. Or if you get really sick, you may want to go to your home country for treatment. How long will it take to sell "your" condo?

 

 

 

 

If there is a devaluation of the Bhatt, I would see that as a good thing. I could bring over the remaining 3 million and pay of the loan and then have my name on the title. That’s the other reason for buying with a mortgage initially, to monitor how the exchange rate goes 

[YT3k72Em]

Another thing to consider is, could your GF pay you back even if she wanted to? And how many years would it take to pay you back.  If she wanted to keep the place, could she cover the mortgage by herself? If the only way of ever paying you back was to sell the property, then that is the crux of the problem.

 

Condos can take years to sell, the bank wont let it be sold under value. By the time it gets sold you might have been out of the picture for a year or two. What would be her incentive then to hand over 1.3 million to someone she hasn't seen or had a relationship with in years.

[kingdong]

On 6/4/2020 at 7:01 AM, samran said:

Buy it outright yourself. You’ve got equity in the Uk. Get a small loan against that and purchase outright. 

so he buys it outright himself,still had to go in her name,you,'re not allowed to own land as a farang in the los.

[torturedsole]

13 hours ago, London Boy said:

Thats not bad advice, but the point everyone is missing is buying your own place means having a home not just a place to live. Buying your own sofas, bed, TV etc.

But you're the one missing the point as none of it will ever be yours.  You maintain that you no longer need to rent with this investment but your investment isn't secure (hence, the OP which seems to have tailed off into outright defence), and your investment will go up in smoke - much like rent - once you outlive your usefulness to your current girlfriend.   

[London Boy]

9 hours ago, torturedsole said:

and your investment will go up in smoke - much like rent - once you outlive your usefulness to your current girlfriend.   

Why will I outlive my usefulness to her? Is it too much to hope that the relationship will be a suscess and buying a property together is the first step in a  joint successful life. Maybe having a larger living space that we have made into our own home will help that. If you look for negativity you'll only ever receive negative results.

[scubascuba3]

2 minutes ago, London Boy said:

Why will I outlive my usefulness to her? Is it too much to hope that the relationship will be a suscess and buying a property together is the first step in a  joint successful life. Maybe having a larger living space that we have made into our own home will help that. If you look for negativity you'll only ever receive negative results.

You must have serious reservations otherwise you wouldn't have started the thread. Of the posts I've read 90% said don't do it, let us know how it all panned out in 3 years

[chrisandsu]

On 6/4/2020 at 7:58 PM, London Boy said:

Thats not bad advice, but the point everyone is missing is buying your own place means having a home not just a place to live. Buying your own sofas, bed, TV etc. Most Thai Landlords dont spend too much on their rentals.

Tell the landlord to clear the unit out so you can put your own furniture in it . What is the reason you have to pay such a large down payment on the property ? 

[Delight]

 Is it too late to buy the condo via a company?  A company that you control via voting rights-rights that you control.

If that were to happen then no doubt she would require some financial protection.

[samran]

17 hours ago, kingdong said:

so he buys it outright himself,still had to go in her name,you,'re not allowed to own land as a farang in the los.

Ah yet another misleading post by your good self. 
 

It’s a condo. It can be totally owned by a non-Thai unless the building already has 49% of the other condos owned by foreigners.