U.S. defense chief opposes deploying troops to quell protests, despite Trump threats

[The Barmbeker]

3 hours ago, BobBKK said:

Yea! you are right!  let the scum loot, kill, attack innocent people - burn churches!  why stop them?  this is not the first time this has happened remember LA riots?  what if YOU were a shop owner that was looted?  but no you sit in your arm chair and say 'let the mob rule'  unbelievable

 

restore law and order

"but no you sit in your arm chair and say 'let the mob rule"

Whereas you are on the front line, locked and loaded, ready to kill American citizens!

The only thing "unbelievable" is the hipocracy from your side

[ChouDoufu]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

Agree, and I did not trust the poster, so checked for myself.

 

Yes, he did reverse his position, https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/03/mark-esper-military-deployment-protests-298314. From the article:

 

where does it say he "reversed his position?" 

 

his position is his opinion on the matter.  did he say he IS in favor of deploying the 82nd airborne to major metropolitan centers?  he did not, so we must assume he still intends to defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC.

 

the "decision" was reversed.  for him.  he is simply following orders.  for now.

[tomacht8]

17 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

Maybe they should get behind Trump and show some unity themselves ?

Many people disagree with everything Trump does or says and now the same people are blaming Trump for causing the divisions

 

 

With a serial liar? There are now 19127 false or misleading claims by Trump. Such a person does not belong in any public office. Such a moral defect should under no circumstances be supported.

[The Barmbeker]

18 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

The Free Press has determined that the unidentified-by-markings-insignia-or-name armed troops on the streets of Washington, DC are Utah State National Guard and Texas Bureau of Prisons employees.

 

Incidentally, it is a violation of the Geneva Convention for armed troops not to wear governmental and unit insignia.

Since Trump and some of his followers think, that Geneva is a Dutch liquer...doesn't matter!

[animalmagic]

6 hours ago, Thailand said:

"White House compares Trump to Churchill

The White House press secretary has likened President Donald Trump's "resilience and determination" during the #GeorgeFloyd protests to Winston Churchill inspecting bomb damage during World War Two."

 

 

????

I guess Trump is still writing the script.

The White House press secretary needs to tell some more jokes -

Why did the chicken cross the road?

To get to St John's Episcopal Church.

[rudi49jr]

6 hours ago, simple1 said:

Ex member of the military, Jim Mattis's critique of trump...

 

“Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people — does not even pretend to try,” 

 

“We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.”

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/06/james-mattis-denounces-trump-protests-militarization/612640/

You just beat me to it, was just about to post the exact same article. It’s very telling that a man like Mattis is ripping Trump a new one like he does. Mattis is a man with great prestige in the military, and his words will - hopefully - carry considerable weight within the rank and file. 

[ChouDoufu]

3 hours ago, pmarlin said:

Old news. After this article came out he has changed his mind or it was changed for him. He now supports the use of Active duty military.

 

and this would be scary, if true.  this is a situation that will go badly very quickly.

 

a not small number of trump's base out west are in various militia groups.  second amendment, religious fundamentalism, small government, and freedom are their hot-button issues.  a lot of them are well-armed and prepared to fight the government.  (well, at least they claim they're ready to fight.  don't know how many are just weekend cosplayers.)  some of them have detailed plans for when washington sends troops into their areas.  these groups are not as well-hidden as they think they are, the fbi has informants and sources of information to start rounding them up when tshtf.

 

the local good ol' boys clubs are not going to be welcomed by the troops to help police their towns.  on the contrary, they will be considered a threat that needs to be neutralized as much as the active looters.  they're going to be locked down and oppressed the same as the "bad guys."  some of them won't take kindly to that and will view troop deployments to major cities as an extension of ruby ridge and waco.....and react accordingly.

 

 

[CorpusChristie]

17 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

With a serial liar? There are now 19127 false or misleading claims by Trump. Such a person does not belong in any public office. Such a moral defect should under no circumstances be supported.

Over 250 of those false claims are Trump saying "The Mexican wall is being built" .

The Wall may not actually be being physically built , but what Trump means is that the Wall will be built in the future.

   So, that wouldn't be a false claim because its Trumps prediction of what will happen in the future .

So, many of those 19127 "lies" are open to interpretation and people deliberately misunderstanding quotes 

[animalmagic]

39 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

Over 250 of those false claims are Trump saying "The Mexican wall is being built" .

The Wall may not actually be being physically built , but what Trump means is that the Wall will be built in the future.

   So, that wouldn't be a false claim because its Trumps prediction of what will happen in the future .

So, many of those 19127 "lies" are open to interpretation and people deliberately misunderstanding quotes 

By that logic if you tell a lie once you can tell it over and over again and it only counts as one lie.  I do not know if you are religious but that does not strike me as a good defence when meeting your God.

250 lies on the same subject are only 1.3% of the total so we are still waiting for elucidation on the remaining 88.7%.  As you are capable of reading Trump's mind to interpret what he means this should be very enlightening.

[tomacht8]

26 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

Over 250 of those false claims are Trump saying "The Mexican wall is being built" .

The Wall may not actually be being physically built , but what Trump means is that the Wall will be built in the future.

   So, that wouldn't be a false claim because its Trumps prediction of what will happen in the future .

So, many of those 19127 "lies" are open to interpretation and people deliberately misunderstanding quotes 

That is horrible, if the President of the United States is unable to express himself clearly,  and this leads to over 19127 false or misleading statements.

Then he should best resign, because of lack of meaningful linguistic skills.

 

In fact his linguistic sentences are always the same. If you delete the following words there is nothing left:

I, me, tremendous, great, Trump, new, president, very, Donald, more people, good time, big America, never Obama, best Country, many, really.

 

[CorpusChristie]

1 minute ago, animalmagic said:

By that logic if you tell a lie once you can tell it over and over again and it only counts as one lie.  I do not know if you are religious but that does not strike me as a good defence when meeting your God.

250 lies on the same subject are only 1.3% of the total so we are still waiting for elucidation on the remaining 88.7%.  As you are capable of reading Trump's mind to interpret what he means this should be very enlightening.

No, what I meant was whether its a lie or not is open to interpretation .

Did he actually try to imply that the Wall was actually in the process of being built, or did he mean that it will  get built in the future ?

   If he stated that the building process is currently underway, that would be a lie .

If he meant the wall would get built in the future , that wouldn't be a lie

It depends on how people interpret what he says .

[Opl]

1 minute ago, CorpusChristie said:

No, what I meant was whether its a lie or not is open to interpretation .

Did he actually try to imply that the Wall was actually in the process of being built, or did he mean that it will  get built in the future ?

   If he stated that the building process is currently underway, that would be a lie .

If he meant the wall would get built in the future , that wouldn't be a lie

It depends on how people interpret what he says .

so it was simply a campaign promise

[CorpusChristie]

1 minute ago, Opl said:

so it was simply a campaign promise

It was a statement of future intentions 

[Chomper Higgot]

5 hours ago, Logosone said:

 

The current riots are much worse and much more wide spread than the Rodney King riots.

 

 Over four hundred cities and towns in all fifty states were affected, riots all across the USA.

 

When does this idiot think the same response as was used in 1992 would be jusitifed? Throw him out! And send in the military already to end this orgy of vandalism and destruction.

Perhaps he never wants to have to find himself offering the defence that he 'was only following orders'.

 

 

[animalmagic]

4 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

No, what I meant was whether its a lie or not is open to interpretation .

Did he actually try to imply that the Wall was actually in the process of being built, or did he mean that it will  get built in the future ?

   If he stated that the building process is currently underway, that would be a lie .

If he meant the wall would get built in the future , that wouldn't be a lie

It depends on how people interpret what he says .

Please tell me how I should interpret threats of when the looting starts the shooting starts.  And why not finish off with the correct interpretation of protesters would be met with vicious dogs and ominous weapons.

[DoctorG]

1 hour ago, Walker88 said:

The vast majority of those exercising the rights granted them in the very first Amendment of the US Constitution, so important to Thomas Jefferson and James Madison they put "the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances" before any other rights, have been peaceful.

 

Some people have behaved badly, but those people did not include anyone in Layfayette Park on 1 June when 45 had them gassed, flashbanged and shot with rubber bullets so he could engage in a photo-op.

 

Now, as it turns out, many of those both fomenting and engaging in acts of violence are white supremacist groups and far-right groups, such as Proud Boys, Boogaloo Boys, and the 3 Percenters.

 

The FBI stated on Tuesday that they found no evidence of "Antifa" in the violent protests, but did find that various far right terror groups were engaged in violent behavior and were fomenting violence in online chat rooms and social media platforms. They identified members of white supremacist groups masquerading as "Antifa" on social media. Twitter also found this and suspended the fake accounts.

 

LE in Portland arrested three "Proud Boys" members who had dressed an black (trying to mimic Antifa) and had engaged in malicious destruction of shops and businesses while peaceful protests were happening around them.

 

The FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force and the Las Vegas PD announce charges against 3 alleged members of the right-wing extremist group "Boogaloo" with violating state & federal laws, "for conspiracy to cause destruction during protests in Las Vegas".

 

Interesting that despite no FBI evidence of any violence by so-called "Antifa", AG barr named Antifa a 'domestic terror group' on Monday. He has yet to announce the same designation to Proud Boys, Boogaloo Boys or the 3 Percenters.

 

Both the FBI and the Dept of Homeland Security have released reports saying that over 70% of all domestic terror attacks since 9-11 have been carried out by white supremacist groups.  Still, the AG has yet to designate any of these groups as 'domestic terror groups'.

 

Now, in the cities of the United States, armed troops, claiming to only be "Dept of Justice" are fighting with and arresting peaceful protesters. These troops are wearing no insignia and no name tags, making them essentially 'secret police' and violating US law. These individually and unit unidentified armed troops even attacked members of the press, including some from Australian TV.

You have made a lot of claims of fact in your post without even one citation. I ask you kindly to provide references for your claims as I would find it disturbing if even some of the claims were true. I don't doubt you, I merely wish to be properly informed.

[CorpusChristie]

7 minutes ago, animalmagic said:

Please tell me how I should interpret threats of when the looting starts the shooting starts.  And why not finish off with the correct interpretation of protesters would be met with vicious dogs and ominous weapons.

No need for interpretation, that was meant literally 

Edited June 4, 2020 by CorpusChristie

[simple1]

1 hour ago, CorpusChristie said:

Maybe they should get behind Trump and show some unity themselves ?

Many people disagree with everything Trump does or says and now the same people are blaming Trump for causing the divisions

 

 

You do know who Mattis is don't you? For Mattis to make his views available in the public arena demonstrates the depth on concern re the trump Presidency by people who have held positions at the very top of the trump Administration. Showing 'unity' contrary to their beliefs is what sycophants do, betray the trust of American citizens by acting contrary to their Oath to Defend the Constitution. Thankfully Mattis has not betrayed his Oath to Defend the Constitution - congratulations Mattis!

[stevenl]

27 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

No, what I meant was whether its a lie or not is open to interpretation .

Did he actually try to imply that the Wall was actually in the process of being built, or did he mean that it will  get built in the future ?

   If he stated that the building process is currently underway, that would be a lie .

If he meant the wall would get built in the future , that wouldn't be a lie

It depends on how people interpret what he says .

No, it depends on what he says.

 

He started, very specifically, talking about a big, beautiful wall, clearly explained it would not be some fence. Later on that changed and he included everything. So his earlier words are lies, his latter words are not.

[Walker88]

28 minutes ago, DoctorG said:

You have made a lot of claims of fact in your post without even one citation. I ask you kindly to provide references for your claims as I would find it disturbing if even some of the claims were true. I don't doubt you, I merely wish to be properly informed.

I assume that people here can access everything from media to US government websites.  It's all available, and the beauty of it...it's free.

[DoctorG]

Not a lot of social-distancing being shown over the past few days. Guess the Corona Panic is over now and we can all get back to our regular lives.

[DoctorG]

Just now, Walker88 said:

I assume that people here can access everything from media to US government websites.  It's all available, and the beauty of it...it's free.

haha. As soon as someone on here not from your "tribe" posts then there is the universal bleeting about sources. One rule for thee ..etc.

[CorpusChristie]

12 minutes ago, stevenl said:

No, it depends on what he says.

 

He started, very specifically, talking about a big, beautiful wall, clearly explained it would not be some fence. Later on that changed and he included everything. So his earlier words are lies, his latter words are not.

No . 

If he thought it to be true at the time, then it wouldn't be a lie .

A lie is when you say something that you know is not  true

[BobBKK]

2 hours ago, The Barmbeker said:

"but no you sit in your arm chair and say 'let the mob rule"

Whereas you are on the front line, locked and loaded, ready to kill American citizens!

The only thing "unbelievable" is the hipocracy from your side

Your family might be the next to get the mob come calling hypocrite (yea, spelling is correct)   

[BobBKK]

34 minutes ago, simple1 said:

You do know who Mattis is don't you? For Mattis to make his views available in the public arena demonstrates the depth on concern re the trump Presidency by people who have held positions at the very top of the trump Administration. Showing 'unity' contrary to their beliefs is what sycophants do, betray the trust of American citizens by acting contrary to their Oath to Defend the Constitution. Thankfully Mattis has not betrayed his Oath to Defend the Constitution - congratulations Mattis!

Yea I know who he is he was sacked by Obama and Trump gave him a second chance then he gets fired and stabs POTUS in the back - yes I KNOW who he IS.

[soalbundy]

5 hours ago, BobBKK said:

Yea! you are right!  let the scum loot, kill, attack innocent people - burn churches!  why stop them?  this is not the first time this has happened remember LA riots?  what if YOU were a shop owner that was looted?  but no you sit in your arm chair and say 'let the mob rule'  unbelievable

 

restore law and order

Apparently the police didn't learn any lessons from LA. If the police can murder black citizens with impunity it's no wonder that there are riots. I see that white supremist illegally armed Nazis standing around just waiting for a chance to shoot aren't being arrested, Trump has their back.

[DoctorG]

4 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Apparently the police didn't learn any lessons from LA. If the police can murder black citizens with impunity it's no wonder that there are riots. I see that white supremist illegally armed Nazis standing around just waiting for a chance to shoot aren't being arrested, Trump has their back.

Don't know what they would be arrested for but sure, anything you say. (and let's just call every armed white guy a nazi, yes?) How about the unarmed black ex-police chief who was shot and killed whilst trying to defend his friend's store? Maybe he should have been armed too.

[Walker88]

2 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

Yea I know who he is he was sacked by Obama and Trump gave him a second chance then he gets fired and stabs POTUS in the back - yes I KNOW who he IS.

Gen Mattis resigned. He was not fired.

 

Gen Mattis is the most respected living US Marine.  Gen Mattis has now joined former Joint Chief Chair Gen Mullen, former JSOC Commander Gen McCrystal, former SEAL Commander Adm McRaven, former DirNSA and DCI Gen Hayden, retired Gen McCaffrey, former SecDef and DCI Panetta, former DCI and Iraq Operations Commander Gen Petraeus, former DCI Brennan, former SecDef and Dci Gates, and virtually every single head of every military and intelligence entity in the USG in condemnation of 45 and his attempts to divide the nation and use illegal and unconstitutional actions,

 

It is a common silly tactic of 45 to pretend he made decisions that others made, such as when everyone quit one of his business advisory councils after his 'some very fine people on both sides' comment about the Tikitorch folks chanting "Jews will not replace us" in Charlottesville. Everyone quit, and then he claimed "I shut it down". No, they all quit first. Now he claims he postponed the G7 meeting, but that was only after the other leaders told Pompeo they would not attend.

[CorpusChristie]

9 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Apparently the police didn't learn any lessons from LA. If the police can murder black citizens with impunity it's no wonder that there are riots. 

The Police officers involved  have all been arrested and charged over the killing so, they werent acting with impunity

[dunroaming]

6 hours ago, BobBKK said:

Yea! you are right!  let the scum loot, kill, attack innocent people - burn churches!  why stop them?  this is not the first time this has happened remember LA riots?  what if YOU were a shop owner that was looted?  but no you sit in your arm chair and say 'let the mob rule'  unbelievable

 

restore law and order

If I had a business looted or burned then I would want the people found and prosecuted.  But as we know this is not the protestors doing it.  It is the usual gangs of thugs that turn out at every protest meeting.  Same in Britain, Germany, France and just about every other country out there.

 

Of course there will always be those who believe Trump's twisted version but it's probably best to just ignore them.