Felling of British slave trader statue heats up simmering debate

[ravip]

20 hours ago, vogie said:

I lived in Otley near Leeds for some years, we had a statue of Thomas Chippendale mounted there, I often thought what a lousy furnature maker he was, but I was never tempted to topple the statue.

The sad part is that the police are as much use as a chocolate fireguard, they just stand and watch as people break the law. A Labour MP has already condoned the mobs actions, same old Labour.☹️

...the police are as much use as a chocolate fireguard

 

To change that, the Police should have the ability to use an iron fist! LOL LOL

That's what the George Floyd murderer did!

 

 

[Bluespunk]

40 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

So, they choose to commit criminal damage. For their own reasons. For which they should face the consequences. No one, absolutely no one, can be above the law in a democracy. And the law cannot be applied selectively.

 

So do you know all of those involved in pulling down the statue personally? Or just assuming you know the motivations?

We all make assumptions and I am standing by mine [based on my understanding the motivation behind removing the statue of a man who traded in human misery].

 

Who exactly has said anyone is above the law, and don't say it's implied in my posts because it's not.

[vogie]

1 minute ago, puipuitom said:

Are they also going to demolish the statues of the Ashanti, Felu, Congo kings, as without them,.,. there would have been no slave trade at all towards the West. And towards the East = the Arab world, much longer existed on a much bigger scale, I hear nothing. Maybe because demonstrations there are not so liked, and.,. any reparation payments... forget it...

The Charlie Chaplin statue will have to go, looks too much like Hitler.

[CorpusChristie]

1 minute ago, brianthainess said:

so what?

It was on a monument dedicated to soldiers who didnt come back .

An empty tomb in remembrance of soldiers that died abroad

[simple1]

14 minutes ago, ravip said:

All statues in London will be examined with a view to removing those with links to slavery and plantation owners, Sadiq Khan has said.

 

Something is happening... An alien had to do the correction?

 

Khan is not an 'alien'. Born, raised and educated in London - he is a Londoner, as I am.

[Nigel Garvie]

4 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

so what?

Exactly, what are statues all about anyway. Some shallow self aggrandising <deleted> gets one put up to glorify his pathetic memory after he is dead. I would remove them all, scrap brass is quite valuable these days. Also when it gets cold there are always brass monkeys looking for welders as we used to say on site. (Freeze the balls of a brass monkey - a nautical saying)

[Bluespunk]

25 minutes ago, ravip said:

All statues in London will be examined with a view to removing those with links to slavery and plantation owners, Sadiq Khan has said.

 

Something is happening... An alien had to do the correction?

 

Sadiq Khan is British.

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Exactly, what are statues all about anyway. Some shallow self aggrandising <deleted> gets one put up to glorify his pathetic memory after he is dead. I would remove them all, scrap brass is quite valuable these days. Also when it gets cold there are always brass monkeys looking for welders as we used to say on site. (Freeze the balls of a brass monkey - a nautical saying)

Does that include the one of Robert the Bruce too? BTW off a brass monkey.????

[CorpusChristie]

1 hour ago, tribalfusion001 said:

TR and his thugs will poo themselves confronted by some of them urban boys. He is a hypocrite

Millwall lads currently (as we speak) "guarding" Churchills statue in Westminister , being confronted by the Ant teethers shouting about both Winston and Boris being racists

[tribalfusion001]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Does that include the one of Robert the Bruce too? BTW off a brass monkey.????

Of course, all of them, if you are going down this route, you can't cherry pick. That will have the Scots incensed lol.

[tribalfusion001]

8 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

Millwall lads currently (as we speak) "guarding" Churchills statue in Westminister , being confronted by the Ant teethers shouting about both Winston and Boris being racists

So overweight bald men with tattoos. You got any links?

Edited June 9, 2020 by tribalfusion001

[ravip]

14 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Khan is not an 'alien'. Born, raised and educated in London - he is a Londoner, as I am.

Thanks a trillion for educating me. Never even dreamt that Sadiq Khan was a British name. I am wiser, that much.

[CorpusChristie]

2 minutes ago, tribalfusion001 said:

So overweight bald men with tattoos.

How stereotypical ........................and wrong .

Young guys , not fat ,  full heads of hair , dont know about  the tattoos

[tribalfusion001]

1 minute ago, CorpusChristie said:

How stereotypical ........................and wrong .

Young guys , not fat ,  full heads of hair , dont know about  the tattoos

Link or photos?

[RJRS1301]

21 hours ago, simon43 said:

Seems like mob rule has taken over in the UK..... police deciding not to intervene..... rule of law broken time and time again.  I'm glad to have left the UK 18 years ago - it's gone to the dogs!

You have a problem with ripping down a statue to a slave trader?

Spoken like true person of privilege. 
 

[rvaviator]

5 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Quite happy to disagree on this one, it happens.

 

I think putting up statues of those involved in the slave trade is celebrating those involved rather then remembering the vileness of their trade.

 

But, that's just me.

???? ... Well its good we can discuss the issue in  civil way.

 

Here is another thought.  If the statue is removed - Then the memory of that part of the town history is 'lost' ... After all the town must have benefited from his wealth. 

 

Put a statue up next to him of a black man in iron ... and then put a plaque to explain and putting everything in context.  It could even be expanded to include a 'person from today' ...  As slavery is still in existence today .... Sure, not on the same scale. But its still wrong and should be fought against.

 

 

[RJRS1301]

31 minutes ago, ravip said:

I lived in Otley near Leeds for some years, we had a statue of Thomas Chippendale mounted there, I often thought what a lousy furnature maker he was, but I was never tempted to topple the statue.

He may have been a lousy furniture maker (in your opinion) but did he exploit people by enslaving them taking away their humanity,  and treating them as "less" ?

 

 

[vogie]

Just now, RJRS1301 said:

He may have been a lousy furniture maker (in your opinion) but did he exploit people by enslaving them taking away their humanity,  and treating them as "less" ?

 

 

I was being sarcastic, for the record he made better cabinets than Mr Kipling made cakes. And next time you quote someone make sure you quote the right person.

[RJRS1301]

7 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Absolutely correct about Churchill being a racist, at least up to and including WW11. but won't help them at all in the PR fight putting graffiti on Churchill's statue. Met Police should be ashamed of themselves, they should move along the Millwall 'lads', totally wrong for them to be there 'guarding' Churchill's statue.

Many parts of Churchill's social justice perspectives do not stand up to scrutiny under today's standards.  However his achievements in leadership may have gone some way to redeeming him in history, and he is proof that people may be able to ameliorate their negative attributes, and learn some compassion and other redeeming features

 

Edited June 9, 2020 by RJRS1301

[CorpusChristie]

7 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

You have a problem with ripping down a statue to a slave trader?

Spoken like true person of privilege. 
 

It wasnt what they were doing that bothered him, it was the "mob rule" that concerned him .

The facts that gangs of people are running around causing destruction and theres no rule of law

[simple1]

13 minutes ago, ravip said:

Thanks a trillion for educating me. Never even dreamt that Sadiq Khan was a British name. I am wiser, that much.

No doubt you did know of Khan, I assumed a poor attempt at humour. However, could't let you comment go by as so many bigots on this forum who would concur with the description 'alien'.

[tribalfusion001]

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Absolutely correct about Churchill being a racist, at least up to and including WW11. but won't help them at all in the PR fight putting graffiti on Churchill's statue. Met Police should be ashamed of themselves, they should move along the Millwall 'lads', totally wrong for them to be there 'guarding' Churchill's statue.

Social media is blame for football thugs guarding statues and Tommy Robinson inciting them. There is a protest in Leeds on Sunday and the focus will be the Sir Robert Peel statue, looks likely to be Leeds thugs guarding that.

[Andrew65]

10 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Absolutely correct about Churchill being a racist, at least up to and including WW11. but won't help them at all in the PR fight putting graffiti on Churchill's statue. Met Police should be ashamed of themselves, they should move along the Millwall 'lads', totally wrong for them to be there 'guarding' Churchill's statue.

...by today's standards just about everyone was racist back then.

[ravip]

21 hours ago, vogie said:

I lived in Otley near Leeds for some years, we had a statue of Thomas Chippendale mounted there, I often thought what a lousy furnature maker he was, but I was never tempted to topple the statue.

The sad part is that the police are as much use as a chocolate fireguard, they just stand and watch as people break the law. A Labour MP has already condoned the mobs actions, same old Labour.☹️

 

15 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

He may have been a lousy furniture maker (in your opinion) but did he exploit people by enslaving them taking away their humanity,  and treating them as "less" ?

 

 

Sorry, what you have quoted was not posted by me.

[tribalfusion001]

1 minute ago, Andrew65 said:

...by today's standards just about everyone was racist back then.

They were and hasn't changed much now.

[ravip]

10 minutes ago, simple1 said:

No doubt you did know of Khan, I assumed a poor attempt at humour. However, could't let you comment go by as so many bigots on this forum who would concur with the description 'alien'.

Love that word "bigots". All modern humanitarians depend on that.

[CorpusChristie]

7 minutes ago, tribalfusion001 said:

Social media is blame for football thugs guarding statues and Tommy Robinson inciting them. There is a protest in Leeds on Sunday and the focus will be the Sir Robert Peel statue, looks likely to be Leeds thugs guarding that.

That is just the vehicle they use for communication :Men standing there peacefully protecting public property from attack and vandalism......................are the thugs ????????????

  How do you work that out ?

Ant Theethers rioting and looting and attacking the police are the thugs , not the guys trying to stop them behaving like thugs .

   Reading social media , all the football lads seem to be putting their rivalries aside 

[simple1]

6 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

...by today's standards just about everyone was racist back then.

As was my mother which taught me at an early age how ugly is racism.

[evadgib]

Just now, tribalfusion001 said:

A good choice of esteemed veterans, but unfortunately you will get football thugs and far right looking for a fight. We have had this before in London with anti-facists and EDL clashing in 2017.

The 'far right' are nowhere near as far to the right as leftist's would have us believe but I agree it's not in anyone's interest to go down that route. The lefties won't know what hit them if they do.

[CorpusChristie]

9 minutes ago, tribalfusion001 said:

They were and hasn't changed much now.

Things have completely changed since then , even changed a lot in the last 30 years , completely changed since when Churchill was about .