Felling of British slave trader statue heats up simmering debate

[Bruno123]

Just now, vogie said:

If the council replaces the statue how is this off topic, this is what the thread is all about. I know I can be somewhat hilarious but I cannot take all the credit you too can be quite titallating.????

 

 

They won't replace it.

[Orton Rd]

Mohammad the one who called himself a prophet bought and sold slaves. The Arab ones were worth 2 African ones, who he called raisin heads. Will they be tossing Qurans into the dock, probably not!

Edited June 8, 2020 by Orton Rd

[CorpusChristie]

1 minute ago, Bruno123 said:

 

Seriously, educate yourself before you leave this mortal coil. Your contributions here lack aforethought.

right OK, are you gunna rob my house or not ?

[vogie]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

Well it wasn't me who loaded the slave ships so I cannot take responsibility. It would seem, however, that the chap in the harbour had a hand in it so I am happy to point the finger there. Who mentioned England? Obsessed much?

Obsessed much, oh the irony. ????????????????

[Bruno123]

Just now, tribalfusion001 said:

I know my history, I was taught it in school and I read about world history too. The UK was not an angel, but we cannot apologize for everything in the past.

 

Erm......

The history you were taught in school was the edited version. That's the point of widening your study material.

[tribalfusion001]

1 minute ago, Orton Rd said:

Mohammad the one who called hisself a prophet bought and sold slaves. The Arab ones were worth 2 African ones, who he called raisin heads. Will they be tossing Qurans into the dock, probably not!

They spray painted racist on Gandhi's plinth, so who knows what will be next.

[vogie]

1 minute ago, BillStrangeOgre said:

Mass, howling, rabid mob??

The protest in Bristol was pretty peaceful from what i gather. No buildings set afire, no shops looted, no violence towards police or property of any kind, correct me if i'm wrong...the protesters were pretty focused, pretty on point considering the context, racial inequality. 

Pulling statues down cannot ever be classed as peacefull, unless you live in Kabul of course.

[Andrew65]

1 minute ago, CorpusChristie said:

I agree, Brits need to know that we only entered the slave trade after it was fully established and had been going on for 100's years before we got involved and it was us who outlawed slavery and put a stop to it .

  Britain outlawed slavery

When Scottish explorer Mungo Park travelled to west Africa in 1698 the slave trade was already established, he was the first white man they'd ever seen, it was already part of their culture, it's not like the Brits invented slavery.

[baansgr]

49 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Doing what the city council should have done years ago.

 

Why?

[CorpusChristie]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It was there because his slave trading was ignored.

 

 

I really dont know, you would have to ask the people who put it there 

[BillStrangeOgre]

4 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

I agree, Brits need to know that we only entered the slave trade after it was fully established and had been going on for 100's years before we got involved and it was us who outlawed slavery and put a stop to it .

  Britain outlawed slavery

...slavery, you mean one group of people forcing another to work for nothing?

Prostitution or slavery, debatable which is older

Edited June 8, 2020 by BillStrangeOgre

[tribalfusion001]

Just now, Bruno123 said:

 

Erm......

The history you were taught in school was the edited version. That's the point of widening your study material.

I know my British history from good to bad. We first built concentration camps in the 2nd Boer war, things like that. I also watch history programmes on YouTube, I have an informed opinion.

[Bruno123]

Just now, CorpusChristie said:

right OK, are you gunna rob my house or not ?

 

No, I have enough to help the old people's home from my cleanly obtained funds.

I'll leave the robbing, torturing and murdering to the likes of Edward Colston.

[sirineou]

15 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

 

His philanthropy has meant the Colston name permeates Bristol. Besides the statue, there is Colston’s, an independent school, named after him, along with a concert hall, Colston Hall, a high-rise office office block, Colston Tower, Colston Street and Colston Avenue.

 

 Colston then began to develop a reputation as a philanthropist who donated to charitable causes such as schools and hospitals in Bristol and London. He briefly served as a Tory MP for Bristol before dying in Mortlake, Surrey, in 1721. He is buried in All Saints Church in Bristol

Thank you for all that information. 

Was Slave trading illegal or socially unacceptable  in 1721?

[Orton Rd]

Trajans collumn needs to come down then, he owned slaves in fact almost every culture in history did at some point.

[CorpusChristie]

2 minutes ago, Bruno123 said:

 

Erm......

The history you were taught in school was the edited version. That's the point of widening your study material.

Seriously, how can you honestly claim to know what he learnt in school history lessons ?

Was you there in school with him ?

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, tribalfusion001 said:

I know my history, I was taught it in school and I read about world history too. The UK was not an angel, but we cannot apologize for everything in the past.

I never mentioned apologizing, but if you do indeed know your history you might feel the urge.

 

Which is perhaps why you brought the subject up.

[Bruno123]

Just now, sirineou said:

Thank you for all that information. 

Was Slave trading illegal or socially unacceptable  in 1721?

 

So you need someone to pass a law before you understand something is morally wrong?

In other words, you don't do it only because of fear of punishment?

[tribalfusion001]

Boris' spokes person dodged the question whether removing statues was good or bad, so expect it to continue.

[RuamRudy]

15 minutes ago, n00dle said:

Yes tear gas and rubber bullets and water cannons should be readied I say old chap!

It will be interesting to see if our PM has the cajones to finally use his water cannon. My guess is not. 

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

I really dont know, you would have to ask the people who put it there 

I guess there is an off chance they thought ‘let’s celebrate a slave trader’ and add a plaque saying what an all round good chap he was.

[Bruno123]

Just now, CorpusChristie said:

Seriously, how can you honestly claim to know what he learnt in school history lessons ?

Was you there in school with him ?

 

I know the curriculum. He would have to be more than twenty years younger than me to be taught any differently.

[tribalfusion001]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I never mentioned apologizing, but if you do indeed know your history you might feel the urge.

 

Which is perhaps why you brought the subject up.

There is nothing to say sorry for imho, the past is the past, but I know some of our lame politicians will want to.

 

 

[impulse]

8 minutes ago, tribalfusion001 said:

I know my history, I was taught it in school and I read about world history too. The UK was not an angel, but we cannot apologize for everything in the past.

 

Maybe you can't apologize for it.  But you can acknowledge that a lot of the evils still happening around the world today are a direct result of it.  It's going to take hundreds of years just to unwind all the back stabbing and broken promises of Churchill alone.  And he was (arguably) one of the good guys.

 

[Bruno123]

24 minutes ago, tribalfusion001 said:

There is nothing to say sorry for imho, the past is the past, but I know some of our lame politicians will want to.

 

 

 

Indeed...which is why they pulled the statue down. It belongs in a museum, to remind everyone of the atrocities that took place.

Edited June 8, 2020 by blackcab
Please do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes or wording

[tribalfusion001]

1 minute ago, Bruno123 said:

 

I know the curriculum. He would have to be more than twenty years younger than me to be taught any differently.

I studied religious education too, but I'm an atheist. Senior school between 1979 to 1984.

[Andrew65]

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

Thank you for all that information. 

Was Slave trading illegal or socially unacceptable  in 1721?

It was actually illegal to keep slaves in England around this time.

From the mid 1700's there was talk of slavery being abolished in the British Empire, I believe this had at least a little bit to do with the revolution in the American colonies. Mr Washington was a slave owner, so he had a vested interest in it.

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Thank you for all that information. 

Was Slave trading illegal or socially unacceptable  in 1721?

On the off chance you haven’t noticed, this is 2020.

 

And the morality of slavery was being debated at the time of the Roman Empire, if not much earlier.

[Susco]

11 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

We're fully aware that our country was involved in slavery.

Better someone tells us which country in the world was never involved in slavery, that list will most likely be very short.

 

What happened hundreds of years ago, and was accepted at that time, should now not be an excuse to loot shops and start violence.

 

 

[BillStrangeOgre]

6 minutes ago, Bruno123 said:

 

Erm......

The history you were taught in school was the edited version. That's the point of widening your study material.

I went to regular schools in the UK and was taught about the slave trade and colonialism...of course, we weren't taught the whole thing in depth, we have over 1,500 yrs of history to get through! But i certainly got enough to know that it wasn't all covered in glory but then isn't that the history of the world?