Felling of British slave trader statue heats up simmering debate

[evadgib]

46 minutes ago, Bruno123 said:

 

Because no one think's it worth defending. No one with any honour anyway. The people decided.

Where do you live anyway?

So anyone failing to toe-the-line 'lacks honour' & you're looking to reinforce that (on an expat forum) with an 'away' strike?

????

Edited June 8, 2020 by evadgib

[tribalfusion001]

More snippets, this is looking like a Mao style cultural revolution now.

 

The lord mayor of Cardiff, Dan De’Ath, has called for the statue of the former governor of Trinidad, Thomas Picton, to be removed from the city council’s marble hall.

 

 

Graffiti has appeared on the Melville statue in St Andrew Square in the wake of the Edinburgh Black Lives Matter protests that took place yesterday. The statue commemorates Henry Dundas, a politician who delayed the end of slavery leading to around 630,000 slaves waiting an extra 10 years for their freedom.

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/crime/edinburgh-graffiti-st-andrew-square-statue-pro-slavery-politician-damaged-protest-2877485

[kingdong]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Doing what the city council should have done years ago.

 

Another classic from an armchair anarchist.

[BillStrangeOgre]

26 minutes ago, tribalfusion001 said:

More snippets, this is looking like a Mao style cultural revolution now.

 

The lord mayor of Cardiff, Dan De’Ath, has called for the statue of the former governor of Trinidad, Thomas Picton, to be removed from the city council’s marble hall.

 

 

Graffiti has appeared on the Melville statue in St Andrew Square in the wake of the Edinburgh Black Lives Matter protests that took place yesterday. The statue commemorates Henry Dundas, a politician who delayed the end of slavery leading to around 630,000 slaves waiting an extra 10 years for their freedom.

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/crime/edinburgh-graffiti-st-andrew-square-statue-pro-slavery-politician-damaged-protest-2877485

...if a few statues get removed and couple more daubed with paint don't you think we'd have all gotten of lightly?

[tribalfusion001]

1 minute ago, BillStrangeOgre said:

...if a few statues get removed and couple more daubed with paint don't you think we'd have all gotten of lightly?

Yeah agree, statues don't bother me, no point fighting over them. Only two in my town, war memorial and a memorial to martyrs during Queen Mary reign who were burned at the stake.

[talahtnut]

I, for one, was pleased to see the old

geezer go for a dip in harbour, there's

plenty more that could follow him, Churchill

next?

 

[tribalfusion001]

4 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

I, for one, was pleased to see the old

geezer go for a dip in harbour, there's

plenty more that could follow him, Churchill

next?

 

Cecil Rhodes tomorrow looking likely.

[BillStrangeOgre]

12 minutes ago, tribalfusion001 said:

Yeah agree, statues don't bother me, no point fighting over them. Only two in my town, war memorial and a memorial to martyrs during Queen Mary reign who were burned at the stake.

...in Liverpool there's a statue of Queen Vic that looks like she's a ladyboy from the left side, (she's got a staff in her right hand) homophobes will probably have torn it down by the weekend! ????

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by BillStrangeOgre

[tribalfusion001]

4 minutes ago, BillStrangeOgre said:

...in Liverpool there's a statue of Queen Vic that looks like she's a ladyboy from the left side, (she's got a staff in her right hand) homophobes will probably have torn it down by the weekend! ????

 

I think Queen Victoria is prime for toppling in the new cultural revolution, blatant racist who presided over an empire lol.

[CorpusChristie]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

I previously worked with a Muslim geologist who told me that he believed the world was about 1500 years old. That was an odd conversation.

 

But in relation to your point, I think we need to be more upfront about how our forefathers were involved in some very unpleasant things in the past. We should teach the ugly side of our country's history as well as its glories.  

I do think that we all need to move on .

Not too good things happened in the past 

We all need to move on , going forward , not just al look back and pointing fingers .

The Romans and Vikings invaded us......................who cares , move forward 

[sirineou]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

On the off chance you haven’t noticed, this is 2020.

 

And the morality of slavery was being debated at the time of the Roman Empire, if not much earlier.

Yes it is, But what this person did or did not do happened 1721 and should be judged   by those standards,  if we were to judge historical personalities by contemporary standards how many would withstand scrutiny? 

Here in the US should we tear down every statue is George Washington because he was a slave owner? 

Edited June 8, 2020 by sirineou
typo

[KhaoNiaw]

It's funny reading about the statue's history as it didn't seem to generate much enthusiasm from the beginning. The gentleman from the Colston societies who commissioned it couldn't even raise the necessary funds from the societies and had to pay the balance himself. 

[Chelseafan]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Doing what the city council should have done years ago.

 

 

As I understand it, the council gave the locals two chances to remove the status and on both occassions the decision was to leave it in place. Personally I think its the right decision. It should be left there to remind people of our shortfailings and what a awful thing we did. We don't want to get into a position of re-writing/forgetting history.

 

But if mob rule prevails then we might as go one step further and take down the Egyptian pyramids after all weren't they created using slave labour.

 

 

[tribalfusion001]

Looks the far right will be at the protests next weekend to protect statues <deleted>. "Tommy Robinson calls for English people to meet up in London this Saturday to protest and protect statues." I can't find the video, saw a clip on Facebook.

[evadgib]

Just now, Chelseafan said:

 

As I understand it, the council gave the locals two chances to remove the status and on both occassions the decision was to leave it in place. Personally I think its the right decision. It should be left there to remind people of our shortfailings and what a awful thing we did. We don't want to get into a position of re-writing/forgetting history.

 

But if mob rule prevails then we might as go one step further and take down the Egyptian pyramids after all weren't they created using slave labour.

 

 

Along with Stonehenge, Dover Castle, The A2...

[RuamRudy]

5 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

 

As I understand it, the council gave the locals two chances to remove the status and on both occassions the decision was to leave it in place. Personally I think its the right decision. It should be left there to remind people of our shortfailings and what a awful thing we did. We don't want to get into a position of re-writing/forgetting history.

 

But if mob rule prevails then we might as go one step further and take down the Egyptian pyramids after all weren't they created using slave labour.

 

 

 

I am sure that there are very few people who can chart their ancestry back to those slaves in ancient Egypt, whereas the descendants of Colston's slaves could, quite conceivably, walk past the memorial declaring him to be 'one of the most virtuous and wise sons' of Bristol. 

 

But then again, I don't believe that the slaves erected the statue to Colston, and there is no Pharaoh sitting atop the pyramids, so your analogy doesn't quite work. 

[CorpusChristie]

The Mayor of Bristol , Jamaican Father and single mother of 3 supports them and threatens more .

Not understanding that if it wasnt for the toppled statue guy, he wouldnt even be in the UK

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/government-announce-expansion-care-home-165228151.html

[Chelseafan]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I am sure that there are very few people who can chart their ancestry back to those slaves in ancient Egypt, whereas the descendants of Colston's slaves could, quite conceivably, walk past the memorial declaring him to be 'one of the most virtuous and wise sons' of Bristol. 

 

But then again, I don't believe that the slaves erected the statue to Colston, and there is no Pharaoh sitting atop the pyramids, so your analogy doesn't quite work. 

My point is that slavery was endemic and you can't rewrite history because a mob says so.  If you want to bring it closer to home then as others have said, lets take down all the statues of Churchill or Rhodes.

Until a few days ago I bet most wouldn't have given a toss about these statues anyhow

 

[BillStrangeOgre]

7 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

My point is that slavery was endemic and you can't rewrite history because a mob says so.  If you want to bring it closer to home then as others have said, lets take down all the statues of Churchill or Rhodes.

Until a few days ago I bet most wouldn't have given a toss about these statues anyhow

 

...no one's trying to rewrite history. The Statue will go in a museum with an account of who the guy is and why his statue was removed by people in Bristol....what's happening now is also history in the making 

Edited June 8, 2020 by BillStrangeOgre

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, Chelseafan said:

My point is that slavery was endemic and you can't rewrite history because a mob says so.  If you want to bring it closer to home then as others have said, lets take down all the statues of Churchill or Rhodes.

Until a few days ago I bet most wouldn't have given a toss about these statues anyhow

 

I don't think anyone is wanting to rewrite history, but rather stop lionising these people who we remember as being noble and virtuous, but were, in fact, monsters. 

[CorpusChristie]

Just now, BillStrangeOgre said:

...no one's trying to rewrite history. The Statue will go in a museum with an account of who the guy is and why his statue was removed by people in Bristol.  

The statue has gone into the river , not a museum 

Remains to be seen what happens next 

[RuamRudy]

11 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

The Mayor of Bristol , Jamaican Father and single mother of 3 supports them and threatens more .

Not understanding that if it wasnt for the toppled statue guy, he wouldnt even be in the UK

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/government-announce-expansion-care-home-165228151.html

And by the same token, if it wasn't for the toppled statue guy, his family might not have been transported to Jamaica and Africans in Africa might not have been left in a state of almost endless poverty, famine and war.

[Chelseafan]

4 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

I don't think anyone is wanting to rewrite history, but rather stop lionising these people who we remember as being noble and virtuous, but were, in fact, monsters. 

Nobody is doing that. The statue was erected in 1895 not 2005!

I don't know sweet <deleted> about him but reading his biography he wasn't a complete monster (for the time).

 

 

[CorpusChristie]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

And by the same token, if it wasn't for the toppled statue guy, his family might not have been transported to Jamaica and Africans in Africa might not have been left in a state of almost endless poverty, famine and war.

But that didnt happen .

Better to deal with what has happened , rather then what didnt happen 

[Chelseafan]

6 minutes ago, BillStrangeOgre said:

...no one's trying to rewrite history. The Statue will go in a museum with an account of who the guy is and why his statue was removed by people in Bristol....what's happening now is also history in the making 

Of course it's a rewrite of history. In 50 years time his name will be forgotten, whether that's a good thing or bad thing is a matter of opinon.

The sad thing is that this act of wonton vandalism is getting more air time than the cause of the protest itself

 

[BillStrangeOgre]

6 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

The statue has gone into the river , not a museum 

Remains to be seen what happens next 

...the mayor of Bristol has said it will be recovered and placed in a museum

[CorpusChristie]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Africans in Africa might not have been left in a state of almost endless poverty, famine and war

And thats all his fault, is it ?

[CorpusChristie]

4 minutes ago, BillStrangeOgre said:

...the mayor of Bristol has said it will be recovered and placed in a museum

No , he stated that the statue would "likely" end up in a museum 

[BillStrangeOgre]

1 minute ago, Chelseafan said:

Of course it's a rewrite of history. In 50 years time his name will be forgotten, whether that's a good thing or bad thing is a matter of opinon.

The sad thing is that this act of wonton vandalism is getting more air time than the cause of the protest itself

 

if his statue is placed in a museum how is his name forgotten? In fact he will also become part of a new history, one that is unfolding right now, which should also be preserved and not forgotten.

[BillStrangeOgre]

Just now, CorpusChristie said:

No , he stated that the statue would "likely" end up in a museum 

Then likely that's where it'll be ????