I was raised an educated as a Catholic. When I was in Rome at 12 years old I saw the Vaticans jewelry...why my mind told me?

Years later through reading I came to realize that the Vatican was the biggest SCAM on earth and that while hiding behind robes and using the pshylogical fears of death have been profiting for thousands of years from us the gullible believer! Everything coming from the church is a scam. The Vatican and Rothschild's are the richest on earth and control everything. Covid19 is the start of their depopulation towards creating their new world order! They make me sick with their crimes and depravity!

I have lost all faith in institutions that claim to represent the only correct interpretation of God. That includes all churches, synagogues, temples, mosques and whatever else there is. Furthermore, I deeply distrust any person associated with any of the above institutions, be they preachers, missionaries, monks or Popes. All of you have corrupted all religion - either willingly, or by being a mindless dupe preaching dogma designed to control and to direct behavior to further power and wealth, all in the guise of doing "God's Work".

I do have faith in myself, though, knowing full well I have nothing to do with you people and not needing any worshipers. But that's private, between me and myself and I  (maybe you 'get' it... )

God created this world and everything in it.

Why did he create animals that chase other animals and tear them to bits for food?

Why allow wars?

Why allow violence in HIS name?

All things bright and beautiful Ok

All things dark, ugly and evil - WHY?

31 minutes ago, Proboscis said:

 

If there is no god/God or similar substitute and your life is not given meaning in some other way (eg through a philosophy such as Zen Buddhism), you have to accept that your life is absurd, without meaning. You existence and all existence is without meaning.

We are links in a very long chain made not only of us humans, but of all life and all events that preceded us.

 

Individually we feel as if we had free will and independence, but collectively we act like an ant colony on steroids, driven by a mysterious force towards some objective we are not aware of.

 

 

11 minutes ago, loong said:

God created this world and everything in it.

Why did he create animals that chase other animals and tear them to bits for food?

Why allow wars?

Why allow violence in HIS name?

All things bright and beautiful Ok

All things dark, ugly and evil - WHY?

"God created this world and everything in it."

 

Sorry, that just cannot be true, no further discussion needed.

 

 

Where's the OP, gone very quiet...

 

 

 

Scientology is the new kid on the block. What a bunch of degenerates that lot is.

On 6/12/2020 at 5:52 PM, Lacessit said:

I am not an atheist. To me, that contains the same certainty of belief as any religion. I'm an agnostic.

 

An agnostic is a cowardly atheist.

Sure. We can't know, but we can see absolutely no reason to believe in any supertatural being. That is atheism.

An agnostic is about 50/50 when it comes to beleiving, nearer a christian who is 100%.

You both believe, more or less.

An atheist don't belive, but is of course bound to the scientific method. IF there were to come some proof we would have to examin it and, maybe, change our mind.

17 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

Where's the OP, gone very quiet...

 

 

 

Maybe he decided to join Joe Biden in his basement...

On 6/12/2020 at 5:12 PM, fittobethaied said:

I am truly perplexed by this dilemma and would like to encourage some of the forum members to tell their story of what has happened in their lives which has led them away from the Cross of Christ and into a life which is void of any faith in His name.

Can't speak for anyone else but I discovered rationality.

On 6/12/2020 at 7:31 PM, Sujo said:

My parents took me to church every sunday. I was even an altar boy.

 

When i turned 13 my father gave me the choice. Sometimes i went, others i didnt. As i matured i realised it was just brainwashing.

 

Im an not an atheist as that would mean you could prove God doesnt exist. Im agnostic, which for me means i really dont give a toss one way or the other.

 

Each to their own, and i mean to their own. Dont spread any word, im not interested in hearing it.

 

that is incorrect (in my opinion), at least in contemporary usage.

 

atheism is simply the absence of belief in a god or gods.  there is no claim that a god/gods do not exist, as that would imply knowledge that one does not have, and would shift the burden of proof.  atheism requires no proof to be true as no claims to absolute knowledge are made.

 

a theist claims there is a god/gods.  the atheist rejects the claim without sufficient evidence.

 

 

Ok if  you can  tell me which God  is the correct one Im going to assume  all are  wrong and as only one can be right  that means 99%  of  them are wrong.

Then theres  the  aspect  of  belief  without  evidence,  with  no  evidence  to  support  your God  theory i  may  as well  believe anything,  God  is a  plum  called  Geoffrey has  as  much evidence.

1 minute ago, ChouDoufu said:

 

that is incorrect (in my opinion), at least in contemporary usage.

 

atheism is simply the absence of belief in a god or gods.  there is no claim that a god/gods do not exist, as that would imply knowledge that one does not have, and would shift the burden of proof.  atheism requires no proof to be true as no claims to absolute knowledge are made.

 

a theist claims there is a god/gods.  the atheist rejects the claim without sufficient evidence.

 

 

Way too complicated.

 

For me, easy, it's all <deleted> and scam.

 

 

On 6/12/2020 at 6:00 PM, doctormann said:

However, you cannot prove or disprove the existence of a higher power so we should, I suppose be agnostic, rather than atheist

Why should anyone have to disprove the existence of something that has never shown any empirical evidence of existing?  

 

If proof for anything is being asked for it should be provided by those who are claiming the real existence of something no one has ever seen or been able to prove in thousands of years.

3 minutes ago, Bob A Kneale said:

Why should anyone have to disprove the existence of something that has never shown any empirical evidence of existing?  

 

If proof for anything is being asked for it should be provided by those who are claiming the real existence of something no one has ever seen or been able to prove in thousands of years.

Quite.  See Russell's teapot.

After years of struggle, I am happy to say I am no longer infected by such cultural viruses as "faith," and "unbelief in gods."

 

Freedom from these diseases has manifested as a deeper sense of wonder, and delight in the richness of the moment, in the enjoyment of friendship.

 

And, a frequent sense of what Blaise Pascal expressed:

 

Quote

 

When I consider the brief span of my life, swallowed up in the eternity before and after, the little space which I fill, and even can see, engulfed in the infinite immensity of spaces of which I am ignorant, and which knows me not, I am frightened, and am astonished at being here rather than there; for there is no reason why here rather than there, now rather than then.

 

 

~o:37;

11 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Way too complicated.

 

For me, easy, it's all <deleted> and scam.

 

 

 

yes, but if you allow others to define what "atheism" means, they get to move the goalposts.  if you let them define you as the one making the claim, they you have to provide the evidence that every one of the thousands of gods created by humans over thousands of years does not exist.

On 6/12/2020 at 6:00 PM, doctormann said:

However, you cannot prove or disprove the existence of a higher power so we should, I suppose be agnostic, rather than atheist,

Maybe anti-theism, as opposed to atheism, is the answer?

I can't speak for all, but I don't despise Jesus. Neither do I despise Santa Claus.

Looks like the OP is on his own even after 3 pages ????. It's all man-made mate!

 

Now I feel like I realy belong to TVF - one of the true unbelievers.

 

I never lost my faith as I never had any. I was a mathematician, there is no logic in religion.

 

"Yet none of these things exists outside the stories that people invent and tell one another. There are no gods in the universe, no nations, no money, no human rights, no laws and no justice outside the common imagination of human beings".

 

From a very good book Sapiens: A brief History of Humankind.

 

 

45 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Where's the OP, gone very quiet...

Locked himself in church?

On 6/12/2020 at 6:12 PM, fittobethaied said:

Over the years I have been an outspoken Christian apologist, a defender of the faith, and I am amazed at the number of people who have already been exposed to the tenants of the Christian faith in their formative years, but at this stage of their life seem to absolutely despise God the Father and even the mention of his son, Jesus Christ.

 

if you were speaking with atheists, i doubt any of them despise your god, or any gods for that matter, as atheists don't believe those gods exist.  what they despise are the actions of the various established religions, and the pain and suffering they are responsible for.

 

god, in his very own book, established rules for slavery, picked a chosen group that he then commanded to commit genocide, called for stoning of witches, called homosexuality an abomination, and sanctioned murder, rape, and pillage.  that is what atheists despise, not an imaginary deity.

I gave up on God at around the same time I dismissed Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.

Frankly im amazed that so many like the OP continued to believe such tosh.

6 minutes ago, Bob A Kneale said:

Locked himself in church?

I was wondering that too. Y'all frightened him away.

51 minutes ago, scorecard said:

"God created this world and everything in it."

 

Sorry, that just cannot be true, no further discussion needed.

 

 

Where's the OP, gone very quiet...

 

 

 

Remember....I said this in my OP so that members would feel the freedom to comment with no repercussions:

 

"I promise not to condemn anyone nor debate the issue on this thread or make personal contact with anyone who chooses to share".

4 minutes ago, fittobethaied said:

"I promise not to condemn anyone nor debate the issue on this thread or make personal contact with anyone who chooses to share".

What makes you think that you are in any position "to condemn others" even though you promise not to do so?

About the same time I stopped believing in father christmas and the tooth fairy, my whole world collapsed and I was left staring at reality.

Why be a non-believer?

 

1) I'm not gullible

2) I have no need for any god or savior; the universe is plenty interesting without conmen getting in the way

3) I'm not one to join any mindless Cult

4) I really don't like wildly Narcissistic humans; put those qualities in a supposed omnipotent deity, demanding of praise and thanks, and it's just nasty (and an all too clear indication that man made gods in his image)

 

The current iteration of the Universe is 13.8 billion years old. If my life span was the width of a razor blade, the life span of this Universe would be over 30 miles. For 30 miles minus the width of a razor blade, I didn't exist and it didn't seem to bother me. When my neurons stop firing and the next 30 or 30 billion or 30 quintillion miles of relative time passes, it will bother me just as much as the first 30 miles.

 

The beauty, however, is that I will not have wasted what little time I have wallowing in willful ignorance and embracing Bronze Age superstition.

My path was the Catholic education system.....at age 12 or 13 I wanted to be a priest. By age 14, I realised that the church did not practice what Jesus preached and served only as an instrument to control people's lives particularly in the Middle Ages. 

I believe that the words of Jesus are the correct way to live as expressed in the Sermon on the Mount....but I don;t know any Christians who lives their lives remotely like Jesus reached. Christians usually selectively refer to the Old Testament to justify their horrible sinful behaviour. Jesus came to sweep away the old rules, laws and convenient. The OT has NO place in a Christian's life.

At school we also did the 4 proofs of god's existence and I managed to find a glaring hole in all of them, and the priest who taught us got increasingly frustrated with me as the lectures went on. I realised that the proofs of god's existence were BS....although one cannot rule out god's existence either....and I look at it the same way as Pascal did ie I try to look at things the way Jesus would for my moral principles.

I would like to ask you a question! I would like to answer you question later, but first

 

Why is it important to you, if I believe or not?

 

 

1 minute ago, fittobethaied said:

Remember....I said this in my OP so that members would feel the freedom to comment with no repercussions:

 

"I promise not to condemn anyone nor debate the issue on this thread or make personal contact with anyone who chooses to share".

It seems there's a fair few angry people posting here, that obviously had bad experiences with religion at some point in their life.

 

I'm going to give you a different take on this. I actually believe, beyond doubt (in my mind) that the Earth, Universe and mankind were created by a God, or the God, or a supernatural entity, for want of a better word.

 

The problem is, knowing that makes me even less likely to follow him. As a supernatural being with unlimited powers, why does he watch by while the whole world suffers (wars, genocides, earthquakes and other natural disasters, starvation, poverty, persecution etc etc)? I don't see the love Christians constantly speak of. Why would I want to spend eternity with an entity with no compassion for his own creation, who just stands by and watches them suffer, just because his original man and woman (Adam & Eve) sinned?

 

Christians make a big deal about Jesus being persecuted and crucified. What is the big deal about that considering he is supernatural and knew he was coming back anyway? Other people took a longer to die on these crosses, so supernatural intervention even shortened his period of suffering. 

 

So in a nutshell, what is the point of all this? What is it you want? My mother and my older brother are so stressed out about going to heaven, but it doesn't seem all that enticing to me.