How You Went from Faith to Unbelief in God

[fittobethaied]

I am a 72 year-old Christian who retired from my business in the US in 2010 and moved to Thailand fully intent on being involved in ministering to the Thai people. I immediately joined various expat forums around Thailand and soon realized that my calling was to the expat community, and not to the Thais, where I saw a greater need to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Over the years I have been an outspoken Christian apologist, a defender of the faith, and I am amazed at the number of people who have already been exposed to the tenants of the Christian faith in their formative years, but at this stage of their life seem to absolutely despise God the Father and even the mention of his son, Jesus Christ. I have also never had one single person along the way who has acknowledged their faith in Christ on a forum and taken a stand with me for the sake of Jesus.

 

I am truly perplexed by this dilemma and would like to encourage some of the forum members to tell their story of what has happened in their lives which has led them away from the Cross of Christ and into a life which is void of any faith in His name.

 

I promise not to condemn anyone nor debate the issue on this thread or make personal contact with anyone who chooses to share.

 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by fittobethaied

[worgeordie]

By the back door

regards Worgeordie

[Puchaiyank]

People, especially men, do not come to Thailand to find Jesus...

[stouricks]

Something very very recent in my life convinced me that my departure from the teachings I had in my childhood were absolute rubbish. What? you ask.

 

I read you post!

 

What gives you the right to come to a Buddhist country and try to convince them that a Jewish guy 2020 years ago is the truth and the way to eternal life. BS.

[doctormann]

I grew up and started to think for myself!

[Brunolem]

I try to "believe" as little as possible, and to "know" as much as possible.

 

The more you acquire knowledge, the less the need for supernatural explanations.

 

I never was convinced by religion anyway.

 

I remember telling my father, when I was still in school, that if there really was A God, all the humans would be aware of this God, and there wouldn't be competing (often fighting each other) religions.

[Lacessit]

I suppose my first loss of faith was when I was about 12, at another kid's birthday party. I was misbehaving, and a priest there clouted me very hard on my head. I can remember thinking at the time " This is a man of God?"

In my teens, I dated a Roman Catholic girl who tithed her wages to the Church. I can't begin to describe how stupid I thought that was, the dating did not last long.

I also came to realize religions are universally about the control of human sexuality to their own ends. Thankfully generations after me are not saddled with the crippling mores of my time, which have caused so many miserable relationships. The Catholic Church is now wallowing in a shame of its own making. Islam is unapologetically misogynistic in many countries.

I am not an atheist. To me, that contains the same certainty of belief as any religion. I'm an agnostic.

 

As a scientist, I would think it interesting to gather statistics on the number of prayers that go unanswered, against those that do.

 

When real tragedies occur, the shibboleth is trotted out that it was the will of God. If so, God must be quite vicious and uncaring.

 

I really feel it is rather pathetic for human beings to desire eternal life, or in the case of Buddhism, reincarnation. I prefer to accept this is my one shot at life, and I should make the most of it.

 

I think it was Philip Adams who said churches are advertising agencies for a product that cannot be seen or felt.

 

Pascal’s assertion men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction resonates with me.

 

“You believe in a book that has talking animals, wizards, witches, demons, sticks turning into snakes, burning bushes, food falling from the sky, people walking on water, and all sorts of magical, absurd and primitive stories, and you say that we are the ones that need help?" –Mark Twain

 

[doctormann]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I suppose my first loss of faith was when I was about 12, at another kid's birthday party. I was misbehaving, and a priest there clouted me very hard on my head. I can remember thinking at the time " This is a man of God?"

In my teens, I dated a Roman Catholic girl who tithed her wages to the Church. I can't begin to describe how stupid I thought that was, the dating did not last long.

I also came to realize religions are universally about the control of human sexuality to their own ends. Thankfully generations after me are not saddled with the crippling mores of my time, which have caused so many miserable relationships. The Catholic Church is now wallowing in a shame of its own making. Islam is unapologetically misogynistic in many countries.

I am not an atheist. To me, that contains the same certainty of belief as any religion. I'm an agnostic.

 

As a scientist, I would think it interesting to gather statistics on the number of prayers that go unanswered, against those that do.

 

When real tragedies occur, the shibboleth is trotted out that it was the will of God. If so, God must be quite vicious and uncaring.

 

I really feel it is rather pathetic for human beings to desire eternal life, or in the case of Buddhism, reincarnation. I prefer to accept this is my one shot at life, and I should make the most of it.

 

I think it was Philip Adams who said churches are advertising agencies for a product that cannot be seen or felt.

 

Pascal’s assertion men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction resonates with me.

 

“You believe in a book that has talking animals, wizards, witches, demons, sticks turning into snakes, burning bushes, food falling from the sky, people walking on water, and all sorts of magical, absurd and primitive stories, and you say that we are the ones that need help?" –Mark Twain

 

As a scientist I can agree with what you say.  We need evidence, not faith.

However, you cannot prove or disprove the existence of a higher power so we should, I suppose be agnostic, rather than atheist,

 

Bertrand Russell had something to say about this.  You have probably heard of 'Russell's Teapot' but, if not, I recommend that you Google it.

 

[bert bloggs]

I suggest you read the thread that  is going about whether you  believe in God or not ,its about 600 pages long ,you will get you answer i reckon ????

[Kwasaki]

59 minutes ago, fittobethaied said:

I am a 72 year-old Christian who retired from my business in the US in 2010 and moved to Thailand fully intent on being involved in ministering to the Thai people.

"How You Went from Faith to Unbelief in God"

Well me kinda living my life did it for me but I believe there has to be something, whether human being beings survive in the the future of earth I'm pretty sure no Gods have anything to do with it.

Religions are childish to say the least in my book. 

[nausea]

Aw c'mon, it's a leap of faith, there's nobody believes in religion on rational grounds. Mostly  it's about the alternative being so awful that no one can take it. Personally, I think the alternative is pretty cool, complete oblivion. I don't want to meet my mother and pets, and father, and friends, in some idealised after world, I want to met them in the here and now, as they portrayed themselves in my memory. You're a lucky guy if you have these memories to pull on.

[Pilotman]

I never did believe in ghosts, poltergeist, spirits, goblins, little green men, or a God. How can one possibly believe in something that runs counter to all logical scientific thought and for which there is precisely zero hard evidence.   Once you add, that more misery, wars, death and evil has been caused by adherents to one religion or another, usually against each other, you have a set of belief systems that are highly damaging, dangerous and destructive. Put God worshipping in the same box as astrology and mind reading.  

Edited June 12, 2020 by Pilotman

[Sujo]

My parents took me to church every sunday. I was even an altar boy.

 

When i turned 13 my father gave me the choice. Sometimes i went, others i didnt. As i matured i realised it was just brainwashing.

 

Im an not an atheist as that would mean you could prove God doesnt exist. Im agnostic, which for me means i really dont give a toss one way or the other.

 

Each to their own, and i mean to their own. Dont spread any word, im not interested in hearing it.

[Pilotman]

I did go to church for about 3 months once in the dim past, but that was when I was in terrible lust with a girl who also went.  When it was clear that I would get nowhere (or anything worth while) with her, I dumped the boring ritual.  I didn't regret it. 

[richard_smith237]

I wish the best to anyone of any faith who practices peacefully, without sanctimony and judgement of others, who does not attempt to enforce their beliefs on others.

 

Thats said, I’ve never had any religious faith and can’t understand the logic of those who do, yet it’s not my position to judge if their faith does not impact me. 
 

Unfortunately, the world is riddled with issues borne of faith, or at least politics hiding behind such. 
 

I for one stand by the comments of Stephen Fry, but have nothing against those who disagree. 

 

 

[Pilotman]

4 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I wish the best to anyone of any faith who practices peacefully, without sanctimony and judgement of others, who does not attempt to enforce their beliefs on others.

 

Thats said, I’ve never had any religious faith and can’t understand the logic of those who do, yet it’s not my position to judge if their faith does not impact me. 
 

Unfortunately, the world is riddled with issues borne of faith, or at least politics hiding behind such. 
 

I for one stand by the comments of Stephen Fry, but have nothing against those who disagree. 

 

 

love that interview and did you see the look on that interviewer's face; priceless. 

[tgw]

I was raised as a Catholic, first communion, religion courses, then attended Catholic school, second communion, various "celebrations of faith" along the way.

 

for as long as I can remember though, I never believed in anything supernatural. or you can say I never believed in anything.

 

my belief system is the following, and has been, for as long as I can think:

- either I know something to be true

- or I don't know

- and if I don't know, I will make assumptions, guesses based on facts

and facts don't include what other people say...

 

I think I never believed in Santa, the tooth fairy or the Easter bunny, although my mother was quite adamant.

 

Later, the various claims made by priests about Jesus and God mostly seemed to be affabulations. Especially claiming there was an allmighty God who loved us but let us suffer and die for "reasons" seemed totally idiotic.

Of course it didn't help that apparently, the strongest believers were also the most stupid.

 

I was perplexed why many people among the elders, also among my family, were insistant about belief in God and were pushing me to acknowledge it.

 

So I read a bit about "belief", also about Pascal's wager. I could not understand how it's even possible to "choose to believe". in something.

Galileo Galileii ... I understood everyone chooses to be a believer when in exchange one can keep his head on his shoulders or when it's good for business.

 

At school, there were several yearly events where priests would utter nonsense over and over, and I was either asleep or wondering how they could keep a straight face.

 

So I had learned that the majority of what constitutes religion was gullibility and hypocrisy.

 

And the more I learned about History, the more I knew this to be true.

 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by tgw

[pomchop]

Little kids are sold the idea of Santa Claus, a big fat white guy, flying around the world on a magic sleigh pulled by flying reindeer....this fat guy is able to visit every house on the planet and slide down the chimney leaving toys mostly made in China.  They are also sold on the idea of a tooth fairy that will creep into your bedroom at night and leave you some $$ in return for an old tooth.  Add to that the Easter bunny who will show up with a basket full of chocolate eggs (rabbits lay eggs?).  I suspect that many of these kids grow up to dress as the easter bunny with an old tooth in their pocket and stand by their mailbox waiting for Ed McMahon to arrive with the Publishers clearing house check for a few hundred million bucks.

 

Mix all of the childish myths with religious brainwashing done by churches teaching equally ridiculous nonsense as described by Mark Twain....

 

“You believe in a book that has talking animals, wizards, witches, demons, sticks turning into snakes, burning bushes, food falling from the sky, people walking on water, and all sorts of magical, absurd and primitive stories, and you say that we are the ones that need help?" –Mark Twain

 

It never ceases to amaze me how billions of otherwise adult types can grow up and discard Santa, the Easter bunny and the tooth fairy as childish myths but still cling to their "religious faith" believing in even more non sense.  Most of which was based on stories written by mostly Arabic people wandering around smoking hash and swapping stories from hundreds of years before their time.  The same brown skinned people that millions of Christians hate.

 

Organized religions are the greatest con job ever sold to the human race.  The catholic church is the worlds best business model...open an "office" or ten in just about every village and town on the planet, babble out a bunch of nonsense in Latin that not one in 100.000 can understand, let your salespeople molest kids and sweep it all under the rug.  Insist that their "sheep" contribute 10% of their pay to the church.  Intimidate and brainwash politicians to let you operate your business tax free.  Support politicians that promote hate and division among races, religions and countries all the while claiming to be fine "christians".

 

I could go on and on but I learned long ago you are highly unlikely to ever have an intelligent discussion with religious people who refuse to engage in logic and invariably fall back on their "faith"....a faith that all they have been brainwashed with is not really brainwashing but the word of god.  Of course when you try and sort through the various religions it becomes completely apparent that where you were born basically determines what myths you accept as fact.  If you are born in Thailand you will be a Buddhist.  America or Europe or South America?  You will be a christian/ catholic.  India will get you a Hindu.  Middle east?  Muslim.   In other words most religious peo-le don't come to their beliefs via careful inspection of the doctrines but simply because of where they were born and brainwashed.  Their religion, god, angels are simply superior to yours....and if you don't agree than we will spurn you, discriminate against you or in all too many cases KILL you.  All in the name of god.

 

How sad.

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by pomchop

[mr mr]

you sound just like my mom. 

 

to answer the original question. facts and evidence. i mean there is a clear cut winner emerging the more we learn as a species. 

 

in the modern world with all we know about the universe, science, and technology were supposed to take advice from a population who could barely read or write ? who  believe in a mysterious all knowing and seeing being living in a magical realm ? 

 

i have given you all the seed bearing plants and herbs to use.....kinda rings true with this one. meaning you sound high when you talk like that in today's world.

Edited June 12, 2020 by mr mr
sp

[alacrity]

Given the potential size of the universe, I'd be very surprised if there weren't superior beings around. 

Having faith in one individual (or three) just doesn't make sense. There's many alternative religions around. 

 

However, one thing they have in common is a promotion of how to get along with your fellow man in a civilized manner.

Sadly this is/has been exploited by the leaders of all faiths. To an extent that some are not considered to be the right kind of; Buddhist, or Christian, or Muslim, et al. Culminating in all kinds of atrocities.

 

I do not and will not ever, entertain any organised religion.

One day I'll find out if I'm wrong.

[orchis]

I am an atheist, never believed anything you mentioned.
Went to my family's church until I was 18, then I thought 'never again'.

It didn't help that the priests were openly racist but closet homosexuals.

Where was Christ and his cross when millions of children got buggered by clerics?
Didn't see him help much, maybe he liked watching.

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by orchis

[AlexRich]

I sat in a classroom as a 7 year old listening to an old spinster teacher explain that Mary was a Virgin, and that Joseph wasn’t the father? There was something a bit off about that story (as well as the other ones) ... firstly, Joseph never consummated the nuptials, and someone else slipped in in front of him, and he bought the story that it was God! 
 

These are stories. Stories traced back to a time when people believed all sorts of nonsense about how we got here. They never made any sense to me as a youngster, and they make even less sense today. 

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, fittobethaied said:

I am truly perplexed by this dilemma and would like to encourage some of the forum members to tell their story of what has happened in their lives which has led them away from the Cross of Christ and into a life which is void of any faith in His name

Most of us went through all sorts of betrayal, asset stripping and accusations when we were divorced in the west. Which forced us to move here.

 

If god exists, f$#% him for putting us through that version of hell on earth.

Edited June 12, 2020 by BritManToo

[malt25]

Religion.... the root of all evil.

[FritsSikkink]

Never believed and here are a couple of reasons why:

 

https://www.godisimaginary.com/

 

[stouricks]

On 6/12/2020 at 6:31 PM, Sujo said:

Im agnostic, which for me means i really dont give a toss one way or the other.

Eloquently put Mr Sujo. Agree 100%

[JimGant]

23 hours ago, pomchop said:

Organized religions are the greatest con job ever sold to the human race. 

Pomchop, what a well written article -- you nailed all the aspects of why religion is a sham. Would the OP like to respond to all the aspects of pomchop's treatise? I thought not.

[Why Me]

I've never believed in God. But I do believe in Heaven. This began a few years ago after I brought 3 Russians back to the apartment from Mixx.

[scorecard]

On 6/12/2020 at 9:21 PM, Pilotman said:

I never did believe in ghosts, poltergeist, spirits, goblins, little green men, or a God. How can one possibly believe in something that runs counter to all logical scientific thought and for which there is precisely zero hard evidence.   Once you add, that more misery, wars, death and evil has been caused by adherents to one religion or another, usually against each other, you have a set of belief systems that are highly damaging, dangerous and destructive. Put God worshipping in the same box as astrology and mind reading.  

I went to Sunday school etc., like a good kid for years.

I got conscripted into the army and went to Vietnam.

During basic training my platoon went to the 2 hr session by the camp chaplain.

Chaplain pleasant enough guy, kept saying 'ask me any questions, any questions'.

A few recruits did, then I put my hand up and said 'excuse me sir I've always been confused where the bible came from'.

Chaplain went berserk and gave me a mouthful of abuse for being insulting, and called some soldiers to take me to the commanders office with a short note about my behavior.

I was paraded before the camp commander and all in 1 minute sentenced to additional kitchen cleaning duties for the next 3 months for being rude to the chaplain.

Didn't do much to give me any faith in the bible, god jesus etc.

 

But I'll add, very often during recruit training, especially just after long sessions in the jungle etc., we would suddenly come across a small army land rover with a Salvation Army officer, a big urn of hot sweet tea and big trays of freshly cut sandwiches and never one word about god, jesus, let us pray etc. And the same but less often in Vietnam.

In Vietnam I never saw or was aware of any other chaplains being present. 

 

[Proboscis]

The problem with many human beings is that they cannot stand absurdity.

 

If there is no god/God or similar substitute and your life is not given meaning in some other way (eg through a philosophy such as Zen Buddhism), you have to accept that your life is absurd, without meaning. You existence and all existence is without meaning.

 

And where does that leave you? That is up to you. For me, I think that we should then laugh. Laugh at the absurdity of it all. Laugh at the attempts of humans to, in some way, deny absurdity, to avoid it, to hide from it and so on.

 

And then get on with your life. Create your own meaning. Create your own life.