New Zealand city takes down statue of British navy commander

[Bluespunk]

24 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

 

It is not a matter of defending statues but of defending democracy. Mob rule in unacceptable and anyone who thinks otherwise needs to learn the lessons of history.

 

Would you regard it as "piquant" if the next targets of these mindless vandals were churches and mosques, monuments to ideologies which thrived on genocide and slavery?

 

 

 

It is not a matter of defending democracy. Enough with the hyperbole.
 

All the statues of slavers and those such as hamilton who helped expand empire at the expense of indigenous peoples should be taken down.
 

It is the celebration of those who are responsible for such unforgivable actions that this movement is targeting. 

 

All monuments celebrating slavery should also be removed. Which ones are you referring to?

 

Remember “celebrating” slavery. 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Bluespunk

[DB58]

7 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

Abhorring racism in all it connotations, I wonder if now we have removal of statues, and movies as well as tv shows from being broadcast, will books from libraries be next?

This move scares me, as did the removal of statues of terrible dictators. 

Theses terrible acts of massacres and slavery are part of history, in many countries and slavery continues in some countries.

Surely with the statues a well placed plaque could be affixed to explain the racism, slavery etc, and give an honest history of the person concerned. The plaque could be in a prominent place and easily seen.

Movies and TV shows could have a warning and explanation added at the beginning. 

 

Exactly! It is changing the narrative to fit the time we live in and not the past. But erasing the past is dangerous, we need to study, debate and learn!

[JackThompson]

34 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Unfortunately leaving them won't work now. They'd just get vandalised. The mob has won, and good people are hiding as too afraid to oppose the mob openly.

In the USA, if you are not part of this mob, and you go out with like-minded people to demonstrate peacefully for your interests (with a legal permit), the police allow the mob to attack you, then prosecute you if you defend yourself from the mob's violence. 

 

That is why you don't see much push-back in the USA - not sure about NZ, Australia, and Europe.

[Pedrogaz]

We need to learn from our history, not airbrush it and revise it out of existence. The stupid thing is not a single black life will be saved by this white-washing and ugly vandalism.

I am no lover of police and hate their brutality to blacks in particular. I was a financial supporter of BLM but it has been taken over and used by extremists in the antifa movement and I will send no more donations.

The funny thing today was an article about which famous black could replace the torn down statues...they name about 6 or 7, none of whom I had every heard of, only one was born in Britain and most had a white parent as well.

The world is becoming absurd. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but it is awfully convenient to forget about coronavirus when people are vandalising in the streets. This could be very good for Trump's re-election campaign, unfortunately.

[Silent Number]

47 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Agree, as a fellow Kiwi, and the wiping out (genocide?) of the Moriori seems to have been forgotten these days, as were the wars between different Maori tribes.

 

Also remember that the French were keen on colonising NZ and had a few settlements there, so the British wanted to act to prevent this.

 

From all of these posts, I recall something I read which went like this, "The past is a foreign country; they do (did) things differently there" and so it was and has been throughout history and in many countries in one form or another, so let the past be what it is.

 

Tearing down statues is not going to change anything.

I have a solution to all these bad memories.Call the Men In Black and line all protesters up and zap them with the zapper thingy.

[Silent Number]

4 hours ago, steven100 said:

All I can say is it just goes to show the number of idiots around the world today. 

Absolutely disgusting .... they should install a camera at all the statue sites and charge anyone who crosses a red line marked around the statues. 

Don't these knucklehead protesters understand history. It is what it is or was .... slavery, colored workers being traded.

Get over it idiots and move on.  

 

Eggsactly

[248900_1469958220]

As the soy boy vegan terrorists ( and persons of all identifications and gender pronouns)  lead the charge toward destabilizing the west further....other countries rub their hands and  look on with glee. 

[Purdey]

First they came for our pedophiles. Next they came for our statues. 

[RJRS1301]

18 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

We civilised the place and have nothing to be ashamed of, statue should have been left. What next renaming Wellington after some ghastly Maori chief?

Edited 18 hours ago by Orton Rd

"Civilised the place," How cute>> 

"we shall civilise you even if we have ti kill you"?? That one??

Bit like USA invading and killing to "achieve peace and democracy" , but we may kill several millions doing do, and blow up most habitable dwellings, but you will be a democracy .

 

[CGW]

49 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Ooh, you naughty conspiracy theorist you! ???? Next you'll be telling us it's all a plot backed by George Soros to destroy Western-style civilisation and replace it with a socialist Techocracy!

Not me! I prefer to get my news from the MSM, that way I don't have to think for myself & see what is really happening! Thankfully any "Fake" news is removed or banned asap to stop me getting mislead.

I'm fully committed to the UN 2030 agenda, they have told us their intentions, sadly there will be a lot of collateral damage on the way forward, the social divide will off course have to be even more biased towards the already wealthy but that's ok, its for our own betterment and safety. ????

At least we still have our Freedom ????

[Epidemiologist Dave]

Why not move the statues causing offence to dedicated museums where the context could be explained and used to educate future generations?

[JCauto]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

There's a Hastings there too I believe. Given what happened to the original in 1066 can we expect Esther Ratzen to have a pop at that too, especially as she's taken all their guns?

Why not just find acceptable namesakes for them? Perhaps Gavin Hastings and Lewis Hamilton would suffice?

[FritsSikkink]

Wonder how we should call the people who are having a fit here.

[metisdead]

Some conspiracy posts have been removed.

 

A troll post using an off topic trolling image and a reply has been removed. 

[metisdead]

Another troll post using an off topic trolling image has been removed. 

[Orton Rd]

2 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

"Civilised the place," How cute>> 

"we shall civilise you even if we have ti kill you"?? That one??

Bit like USA invading and killing to "achieve peace and democracy" , but we may kill several millions doing do, and blow up most habitable dwellings, but you will be a democracy .

 

Not all cultures are equal are they, ones involving ritual murder, canabalism and rape tend to be up for a bit of improvement

[sungod]

7 hours ago, Card said:

except he never actually committed terrorism, only suspected

With that logic they will be putting up statues of Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness in London.

[from the home of CC]

2 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

"Civilised the place," How cute>> 

"we shall civilise you even if we have ti kill you"?? That one??

Bit like USA invading and killing to "achieve peace and democracy" , but we may kill several millions doing do, and blow up most habitable dwellings, but you will be a democracy .

 

and this is why the garbage needs to be removed, because these ideals still exist. The closet 'conquerors' can still look at depictions of these racist animals on line forever in their basements but the folks whose ancestors were brutalized have to contend with the deniers forever.. 

[Krataiboy]

Just now, Bluespunk said:

I don’t care why colston’s statue was put up, it celebrates a slaver and deserved all it got. 
 

It’s as much my business as yours why hamilton’s statue was removed. It celebrates the imposition of empire against the will of the indigenous peoples and its removal is a cause to celebrate. 
 

The rest of your post is off topic rambling, especially the bit about the pyramids...you need to research before you post, none of the things you mention celebrate or are a monument to slavery in any way, shape or form. 
 

As for those against the statues, they do care about historical acts, that’s why they want them gone. 

You persist in missing the point. Whether or not a particular statue or monument deserves to be removed is not the most important issue.

 

What really matters in a democracy is that the decision finally taken results from the consent of the majority rather than through intimidation by a violent minority. 

 

The alternative is to end up in the same chaotic mess now engulfing US cities like Minneapolis and Seattle, where BML where statues may still be intact but democracy itself is being defenestrated.

 

If anyone is in need of a history lesson, it is those propagandised into seeing BML's motley leadership as a worthy successor to civil rights giants like Dr Martin Luther King, rather than pawns of the political left and billionaire globalists such as George Soros.

 

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/joshua-muravchik/the-truth-about-black-lives-matter/

[Bluespunk]

43 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

You persist in missing the point. Whether or not a particular statue or monument deserves to be removed is not the most important issue.

 

What really matters in a democracy is that the decision finally taken results from the consent of the majority rather than through intimidation by a violent minority. 

 

The alternative is to end up in the same chaotic mess now engulfing US cities like Minneapolis and Seattle, where BML where statues may still be intact but democracy itself is being defenestrated.

 

If anyone is in need of a history lesson, it is those propagandised into seeing BML's motley leadership as a worthy successor to civil rights giants like Dr Martin Luther King, rather than pawns of the political left and billionaire globalists such as George Soros.

 

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/joshua-muravchik/the-truth-about-black-lives-matter/

No, I’ve got the point. 
 

There is no threat to democracy. 
 

It’s great to see all statues celebrating slavers and their ilk come down, now that the airbrushed history surrounding them is brought into the light. 
 

That is the issue. 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Bluespunk

[JensenZ]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I wasn't born then, and I don't own land. Why is it made my problem? My ancestors were Irish- should the Brits apologise to me for the sins of Cromwell? Should the descendants of Maori tribes that killed other tribes and ate them apologise for the sins of their forefathers?

There isn't a country on the planet that didn't suffer colonialism at some point in its history, but you appear to single out the British of the 18th/19th century, who were a darn sight better than the Belgians.

 

While atrocities happened on both sides long ago, today the Maoris have equal rights in NZ as any white descendant.

I wish those protestors would go to China and destroy pictures of Mao in public to find out what real life is like. Mao was a very bad guy, so why not?

No, I'm not asking you to apologize. I'm asking you to stop apologizing for what the colonist did.

 

Skipping forward to 2020. I would say these days Maoris have more rights than Pakehas. You might find, considering the momentum of the PC movement, that people will be giving a lot more land back to them in the future. Today the statues start to fall - tomorrow they'll be taking land back.

 

BTW, it's my country too. 3 of my siblings are married to Maoris. All my nephews and nieces are part Maori. These threads were about British colonists (Cecil Rhodes in the other thread), so I'm following the topic. I am not singling them out.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2020 by JensenZ

[Grusa]

7 hours ago, somtamgaiyang said:

Surely with the statues a well placed plaque could be affixed to explain the racism, slavery etc, and give an honest history of the person concerned. The plaque could be in a prominent place and easily seen.

There is no such thing as an "honest history", history is written by the winners. 

 

Will your plaque be written in 255 languages, including the local patois?, or will it be in one or some of the "winning" countries' languages?

 

Why not accept that Fred Bloggs, a pressed man from a poor village in Chipping Bloodberry, sagger makers' bottom knocker to trade, sha**ed a local chiefs' daughter and founded a colonial dynasty? Get over it, his statue isn't doing anyone any harm, and celebrate his good luck in not ending up in a missionary pot!

https://images.app.goo.gl/fkryggsV44VR5t2T8

[metisdead]

Off topic posts about the Pyramids, the Aztecs and the replies have been removed.

 

Some bickering troll posts of a stalking nature have been removed:

 

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

[steven100]

The world has really lost the plot. They have lost any common sense, respect and dignity.

Examples of the stupidity :

Tear down statues that had any attachment to slavery.

Removed ba ba black sheep as a nursery rhyme. 

Removed all movies that had any contention about slavery or colored folk.

Removed cartoon elma fudd & daffy duck because they had guns in the sketches.

 

These are just a few examples of how the world has gone, there are many more ..... 

only one word to describe this ....  ridiculous  ! 

 

 

   

[RJRS1301]

11 hours ago, Grusa said:

There is no such thing as an "honest history", history is written by the winners. 

 

Will your plaque be written in 255 languages, including the local patois?, or will it be in one or some of the "winning" countries' languages?

 

Why not accept that Fred Bloggs, a pressed man from a poor village in Chipping Bloodberry, sagger makers' bottom knocker to trade, sha**ed a local chiefs' daughter and founded a colonial dynasty? Get over it, his statue isn't doing anyone any harm, and celebrate his good luck in not ending up in a missionary pot!

https://images.app.goo.gl/fkryggsV44VR5t2T8

Written from a position of total lack of understanding of triggers to those whose ancestors were massacred, enslaved, raped and transported. Well done

 

[steven100]

Good job .....  break up the protesters with force. Nothing more than thug vandals damaging property. 

[Roadman]

14 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

No, I’ve got the point. 
 

There is no threat to democracy. 
 

It’s great to see all statues celebrating slavers and their ilk come down, now that the airbrushed history surrounding them is brought into the light. 
 

That is the issue. 

I will take it a step further for you in relation to NZ seeing that is the country in the heading.

I sit in full agreement that there is a major problem in the US police force when you watch the way that cop murdered that dude. The US police force needs a major overhaul but that does not include all of the stupidity that is coming out everywhere on the back of that. 

Today in NZ we have more BLM marchs in our cities on the back of the same about two weeks ago. What I find appalling here is a photo from that last march showing the crowd being mostly Maori and one person in particular holding a placard along the lines of some person who would have been such and such an age today. Three weeks ago and right before all this stupidity started we had yet another little girl Sofia, one year old, killed, joining a long list of like kiddies in this country killed by their families. Its New Zealands appalling record. Three weeks after Sofia was killed their is still no arrest as the whole family, as per now becoming the norm in this country in Maori ranks, all hide behind each other. That is a shocking double standard. If I turned up at one of those BLM marchs here in NZ with a all black lives matter placard with remember Sofia and all other Maori children killed in this country I gaurantee you I wouldnt last seconds before being assaulted. And that is the double standard being rudely applied here. 

In the last few months under Covid we have seen Maori at all ranks doing what they like (IWI acting like police and road blocking towns, Maori Gangs taking over city streets for funerals) and police and a weak kneed Labour government backing down everywhere. 

Its fine for statues and such to be removed if justified. But that is done through consultation with equal input from all parties. Not from a select small group with media blowup creating an impression that this is what the majority agree with. 

[Bluespunk]

12 minutes ago, Roadman said:

I will take it a step further for you in relation to NZ seeing that is the country in the heading.

I sit in full agreement that there is a major problem in the US police force when you watch the way that cop murdered that dude. The US police force needs a major overhaul but that does not include all of the stupidity that is coming out everywhere on the back of that. 

Today in NZ we have more BLM marchs in our cities on the back of the same about two weeks ago. What I find appalling here is a photo from that last march showing the crowd being mostly Maori and one person in particular holding a placard along the lines of some person who would have been such and such an age today. Three weeks ago and right before all this stupidity started we had yet another little girl Sofia, one year old, killed, joining a long list of like kiddies in this country killed by their families. Its New Zealands appalling record. Three weeks after Sofia was killed their is still no arrest as the whole family, as per now becoming the norm in this country in Maori ranks, all hide behind each other. That is a shocking double standard. If I turned up at one of those BLM marchs here in NZ with a all black lives matter placard with remember Sofia and all other Maori children killed in this country I gaurantee you I wouldnt last seconds before being assaulted. And that is the double standard being rudely applied here. 

In the last few months under Covid we have seen Maori at all ranks doing what they like (IWI acting like police and road blocking towns, Maori Gangs taking over city streets for funerals) and police and a weak kneed Labour government backing down everywhere. 

Its fine for statues and such to be removed if justified. But that is done through consultation with equal input from all parties. Not from a select small group with media blowup creating an impression that this is what the majority agree with. 

I don’t see what any of that has to do with this issue regarding removing the statue of hamilton. 
 

[norfolkc]

Did not take the Woke Kiwi's long to get in on the act 

[robblok]

On 6/12/2020 at 7:35 PM, Orton Rd said:

Maori killed those there before them, waged constant war tribe against tribe and were cannibals at times. Hamilton has a museum completely dedicated to these savages and you can't take photo's because it goes against their beliefs. We civilised the place and have nothing to be ashamed of, statue should have been left. What next renaming Wellington after some ghastly Maori chief?

We civilized the place.. you mean you robbed it of its raw materials and took their land. Damm talk about revising history. I am amazed at the nationalistic Brits that think colonization is done to civilize people instead of grabbing their land and resources. 

 

Then again it does not surprise me much from the white OAP's on the forum. I admit my country did the same cruel things. Can't call it civilizing people.