Foreigners married to Thais set to be allowed to return to Thailand

[sammieuk1]

1 hour ago, JohnFlory said:

I am not holding my breathe. I have a legal marraige to a Thai and we have been apart since February. As I am not retired, I am only with my wife in our condo in Thailand three or four months each year (she is sometimes with me outside of Thailand) so no visa other than 60 day tourist visa. Additionally, I hold a US passport, but have not been in the US since July 2019. Since Covid-19 started, I have only been in Thailand and South Korea (where I am now). I look forward to the clear and concise rules that are soon to be issued by the Thai authorities!

I look forward to the clear and concise rules that are soon to be issued by the Thai authorities!

 

Umm! don't need to wait for that it will be about "how much" and the number of times you say it ????

[richard_smith237]

28 minutes ago, andre47 said:

44 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Remember - This is not about eradicating Covid-19 but keeping the spread rate down such that the spread rate is limited while the economy can continue.

But Thailand don't want the virus. Is this so difficult to understand???

But that's a dumbed down answer and serves the 'uneducated masses'

 

You, me, everyone-else were sold the 'lock down' on the premise that the spread rate needed to be controlled to 'flatten the curve' and not overwhelm the health-services - This has come with an almost inconceivable cost to the Economy (Thailand's and the Global Economy).

 

The 'curve flattening' objectives and not overwhelming the health services were met well over a month ago, it was around the same time more was known about the virus and the fatality rates were nowhere near as high as expected and primarily a result of comorbidity.

 

 

The lock-down decisions were based on Models of a new virus we knew nothing about. Without the benefit of hindsight or any further knowledge or SARS-CoV-2 lock-down was the only logical and safe decision. We now know a lot more of the effects of SARS-CoV-2 and how it causes Covid-19 in some and is lethal to those with existing severe conditions.

 

 

It's becoming clear that like the common cold, like seasonal influenza and many others, SARS-CoV-2 is a virus we will have to live with.

 

Delaying the acceptance of this is nothing more than political movement - Face saving all round to avoid the reality of admitting the massive over-reaction on a global scale.

 

The 'over reaction' wasn't an over-reaction at the time because we didn't know what the virus could do and thus trusted the models, then politics took over - those who made the decision would be committing political suicide if they admitted they over reacted.

 

This does seem difficult for simple minds to understand, those who would argue 'but, Thailand doesn't want the virus' without understanding that this is a long term impossibility and inevitably the 'new normal' involves living alongside such viruses.

 

Everyone is talking of 'vaccines', however, the influenza vaccine is only 40-60% effective. We may not be able to create an effective vaccine, we may just find better ways to treat Covid-19 as we have done with HIV (which has also had billions thrown at it).

 

Thus, the idea that 'Thailand doesn't want the virus' as a solution to resolve the issue is preposterous when taking a long term outlook with the understanding that the lock-down was simply about ensuring the hospitals were not overwhelmed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[samran]

I was told - and it sounds about right - that Thailand has the capacity to quarantine about 500 of its own citizens per day arriving back from overseas. And there is still a backlog. Paying to stay in hotels will alleviate some of it, but that will only be a small weight off things. 

 

Whatever way you look at it, for the time being, unless self isolation become accepted (and I doubt its going to be soon) then then we are looking at fairly limited numbers of people coming in.

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, JohnFlory said:

I am not holding my breathe. I have a legal marraige to a Thai and we have been apart since February. As I am not retired, I am only with my wife in our condo in Thailand three or four months each year (she is sometimes with me outside of Thailand) so no visa other than 60 day tourist visa. Additionally, I hold a US passport, but have not been in the US since July 2019. Since Covid-19 started, I have only been in Thailand and South Korea (where I am now). I look forward to the clear and concise rules that are soon to be issued by the Thai authorities!

As they are not issuing tourist visas or allowing visa exempt entry now you would need to get a non-O visa from Thai Embassy.  You will in any case need to coordinate your visit with them as all incoming flights are coordinated with Embassies. So if you are interested in coming you would do well to contact the Embassy now, apply for visa and let them know you want to come.

 

You will need to be prepared to quarantine for the first 14 days.

[davidstipek]

11 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

His point was an extremely valid one. 

If someone is tested and is proven not to have Covid-19 after arrival (and spending a couple of days in quarantine to await the test results) - what is the point in further quarantine. 

 

If you would prefer to do the full 14 days quarantine instead of the 2-3 day quarantine and Covid-19 test the question should be asked, what are you on?

 

 

We know these are all government policies, however, with the availability of testing, quarantine those proven not to be carrying Covid-19 doesn’t make sense. 

Being Tested before you depart to come here, proves nothing. Unless you were tested, quarantined... kept in isolation until confined to plane. It just proves at "One" time you were Covid-19 free. Does not Certify you Boarded Flight in same status!

Example:

You are tested at Doctors office and confirmed you did not have the Clap. You Board the flight and during the 22+ HRS to complete your flight to Thailand. You seemed lucky enough to get a <deleted>, later sex in the rear of plane.

You arrive in Thailand, met by your wife (you bypassed testing as you showed certificate you had test done in America. A week later your wife takes you to the Hospital (she has the Clap now) to get tested, it is confirmed you are infected also. They contact Airlines to get Stewardess tested, she also tests Positive. (This confirms your wife was not screwing around while you were gone.)

Point in case if you were tested upon arrival, a mess, probably a Divorce would not be played out, you marriage might have been saved. Yes no one died, But look at the mess you caused by not being tested and quarantined!

Be mindful both these scenario's have Incubation periods... Covid-19 has been set at 14 days for a reason by Medical Authorities, 1, 2 or 3 days will prove nothing

 

[andre47]

27 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

You, me, everyone-else were sold the 'lock down' on the premise that the spread rate needed to be controlled to 'flatten the curve' and not overwhelm the health-services - This has come with an almost inconceivable cost to the Economy (Thailand's and the Global Economy).

 

It's becoming clear that like the common cold, like seasonal influenza and many others, SARS-CoV-2 is a virus we will have to live with.

 

This does seem difficult for simple minds to understand, those who would argue 'but, Thailand doesn't want the virus' without understanding that this is a long term impossibility and inevitably the 'new normal' involves living alongside such viruses.

 

Everyone is talking of 'vaccines', however, the influenza vaccine is only 40-60% effective. We may not be able to create an effective vaccine, we may just find better ways to treat Covid-19 as we have done with HIV (which has also had billions thrown at it).

1. flatten the curve
The first goal should be to contain the virus. China locked many million citizens and they nearly succeed. They are still struggling but they will contain the virus. Taiwan did contain the virus and Thailand do. New Zealand and large parts of Australia are free from the virus. Also South Korea is quite successful in containing the virus.  Why flatten the curve if you can contain the virus?

 

2. vaccine
How can you be sure that it will not be possible to develop a vaccine? Influenza and Covid-19 are quite different viruses and many companies are working to develop a vaccine. 

Every country has a different approach and the future will show what is the best way to handle the problem.

[davidstipek]

Being Tested before you depart to come here, proves nothing. Unless you were tested, quarantined... kept in isolation until confined to plane. It just proves at "One" time you were Covid-19 free. Does not Certify you Boarded Flight in same status!

Example:

You are tested at Doctors office and confirmed you did not have the Clap. You Board the flight and during the 22+ HRS to complete your flight to Thailand. You seemed lucky enough to get a <BJ> later sex in the rear of plane.

You arrive in Thailand, met by your wife (you bypassed testing as you showed certificate you had test done in America. A week later your wife takes you to the Hospital (she has the Clap now) to get tested, it is confirmed you are infected also. They contact Airlines to get Stewardess tested, she also tests Positive. (This confirms your wife was not screwing around while you were gone.)

Point in case if you were tested upon arrival, a mess, probably a Divorce would not be played out, you marriage might have been saved. Yes no one died, But look at the mess you caused by not being tested and quarantined!

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, davidstipek said:

11 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

His point was an extremely valid one. 

If someone is tested and is proven not to have Covid-19 after arrival (and spending a couple of days in quarantine to await the test results) - what is the point in further quarantine. 

 

If you would prefer to do the full 14 days quarantine instead of the 2-3 day quarantine and Covid-19 test the question should be asked, what are you on?

 

 

We know these are all government policies, however, with the availability of testing, quarantine those proven not to be carrying Covid-19 doesn’t make sense. 

Being Tested before you depart to come here, proves nothing. Unless you were tested, quarantined... kept in isolation until confined to plane. It just proves at "One" time you were Covid-19 free. Does not Certify you Boarded Flight in same status!

Example:

You are tested at Doctors office and confirmed you did not have the Clap. You Board the flight and during the 22+ HRS to complete your flight to Thailand. You seemed lucky enough to get a <deleted>, later sex in the rear of plane.

You arrive in Thailand, met by your wife (you bypassed testing as you showed certificate you had test done in America. A week later your wife takes you to the Hospital (she has the Clap now) to get tested, it is confirmed you are infected also. They contact Airlines to get Stewardess tested, she also tests Positive. (This confirms your wife was not screwing around while you were gone.)

Point in case if you were tested upon arrival, a mess, probably a Divorce would not be played out, you marriage might have been saved. Yes no one died, But look at the mess you caused by not being tested and quarantined!

Quite an imagination, however in your eagerness to express your scenario you missed an essential point.

I've highlighted in bold and then red where your reading comprehension failed you.

 

For clarity: IF testing upon arrival becomes available a 14 day quarantine period would be pointless for those who tested negative. 

 

 

The only real question is: How long does it take from exposure to testing positive (i.e. 2 hrs, 2 days?). The other issue would be the availability of reliable test kits and the training of staff to use them.

 

The issues with the existing Covid-19 tests are that they are required to sample from the very very back of the throat (such that you would gag) and from very deep into the nasal cavity (such that it hurts) - (I've had a Covid-19 test BTW).

 

 

 

 

[DrJack54]

There will be no change to required 14 day quarantine. Certainly not in short term.

The news out of NZ today will only re enforce that.

In any event there will be other requirements in place to make this a trickle effect on numbers of non-Thai folk returning to Thailand. 

Those married folk with current permission of stay have a better chance. Those with expired POS will have hurdles.

The very many guys that live o/s (working) and visit family as often as they can using tourist visas and even visa exempt and extension etc. IMO zero chance.

 

[richard_smith237]

30 minutes ago, andre47 said:

1. flatten the curve
The first goal should be to contain the virus. China locked many million citizens and they nearly succeed. They are still struggling but they will contain the virus. Taiwan did contain the virus and Thailand do. New Zealand and large parts of Australia are free from the virus. Also South Korea is quite successful in containing the virus.  Why flatten the curve if you can contain the virus?

If the Virus can be eradicated - fair enough. But China was too late to contain the virus and too late to warn the world. The virus may have initially spread as early as August (according to some reports) and was definately prevalent on 16th November with proven cases in France in mid December.

Containment was already too late.

 

Just an opinion: I don't believe SARS-CoV-2 can be contained, just like the other highly transmissible Corona Viruses and Flu Viruses out there (Note: MERS and SARS-CoV-1 had relatively low transmission rates and could thus be contained)

 

An additional facet of attempting to eradicate these viruses instead of evolving with them: If we 'eradicate' these viruses for a period of time. i.e. the lock-down temporarily eradicates the regular strains of Cold and Flu for a period of time, when there is a re-emergence we have no tolerance and the impact of further resurgence of these viruses will be far more devistating than a regular cold as our immunity diminishes over a 1-3 year period depending on the specific strain.

 

This why herd immunity and evolving with the viruses is essential. Vaccines need to be extremely effective to eradicate a virus (i.e. >95% effective).

 

Quote

 

2. vaccine
How can you be sure that it will not be possible to develop a vaccine? Influenza and Covid-19 are quite different viruses and many companies are working to develop a vaccine. 

I can't be sure it will not be possible to develop an 'effective' vaccine, equally so, no one can be sure we will.

Perhaps not enough money has been thrown into the 'common cold' which is also a Corona Virus. But we already know that plenty of money has been thrown in HIV and Influenza without discovering / creating effective vaccines - thus, we also need to be prepared that an effective vaccine may not be available. I hope I am wrong.

 

Quote

Every country has a different approach and the future will show what is the best way to handle the problem.

Agreed, every country has had a taken a slighty different approach which is why I suspect the virus will not be eradicated (only my opinion of course), again, I hope I am wrong.

 

 

Anti-body testing may show that many have had the virus and possess immunity which may imply that we were all late to the party in the first place - We'll never know this until a widespread antibody testing is in progress. Proving an over reaction obviously does not fit the politics.

 

 

[drbeach]

On 6/15/2020 at 3:56 PM, Somtamnication said:

Let me guess: Married farangs with work permits only.

Anyone with a work permit has already been allowed in. Many work permit holders (probably most, actually) are married to Thais.

[DrJack54]

Just now, drbeach said:

Anyone with a work permit has already been allowed in. Many work permit holders (probably most, actually) are married to Thais.

Not suggesting that's not the case. 

Just an observation. I have not read one report on Thaivisa of someone returning to Thailand recently detailing their quarantine and pre flight requirement experience.

Thought there would be many.

[Yme]

On 6/15/2020 at 3:56 PM, Somtamnication said:

Let me guess: Married farangs with work permits only.

Close. Married farangs with work permits, health insurance, and underlying chronic medical conditions ???? 

[andre47]

6 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Just an opinion: I don't believe SARS-CoV-2 can be contained, just like the other highly transmissible Corona Viruses and Flu Viruses out there (Note: MERS and SARS-CoV-1 had relatively low transmission rates and could thus be contained)

 

I can't be sure it will not be possible to develop an 'effective' vaccine, equally so, no one can be sure we will.

Perhaps not enough money has been thrown into the 'common cold' which is also a Corona Virus. But we already know that plenty of money has been thrown in HIV and Influenza without discovering / creating effective vaccines - thus, we also need to be prepared that an effective vaccine may not be available. I hope I am wrong.

Yes, it is your opinion and different people have different opinions. ???? The officials have to take decisions. They have a lot of advisors with also different opinions. This virus is new and we don't know enough about it. But they have to decide and they are responsible for many lives. Not easy and nobody can be sure what is right or wrong.

Some countries have successfully contained the virus and the people there are happy that they can live without fear. I am happy to live in Thailand. I would be afraid to go back to Europe now.

Hopefully they will develop a vaccine. In about 6-12 month we will know more.

[dieter1]

16 hours ago, HuskerDo said:

So with the virus spreading around the world you/he chose to leave Thailand and are now complaining that you aren't currently allowed to return? You needed to make plans about 6 months ago if you really wanted to return to Thailand. This situation is no one's fault but your own. Plan better next time (if there is one).

 

"I want to return with him to stay permanently".... again, this sounds like a thought you should have acted on 6 months ago instead of waiting and complaining now that the world has changed.

why is, blaming the victim , so popular? do get distanced from the victims? To not feel guilty because of the suffering of others? To get excuses for being selfish? to convince yourself that you would not be a victim if you are always be careful?

whatever

Blaming victims - in my view- is one of the most antisocial behavior I can imagine.

Get used to the fact, that suffering is normal for human beings and that it is normal, that people are (mostly) not able to prevent it. Even,when the reason is lack of inteligence. It is even not the choice of someone to be stupid or clever.

I  am sorry , if you are not happy, but try to restrain yourself from making it harder for other people by blaming them for their misery.

Have a good day!

[Yme]

42 minutes ago, davidstipek said:

Being Tested before you depart to come here, proves nothing. Unless you were tested, quarantined... kept in isolation until confined to plane. It just proves at "One" time you were Covid-19 free. Does not Certify you Boarded Flight in same status!

Example:

You are tested at Doctors office and confirmed you did not have the Clap. You Board the flight and during the 22+ HRS to complete your flight to Thailand. You seemed lucky enough to get a <BJ> later sex in the rear of plane.

You arrive in Thailand, met by your wife (you bypassed testing as you showed certificate you had test done in America. A week later your wife takes you to the Hospital (she has the Clap now) to get tested, it is confirmed you are infected also. They contact Airlines to get Stewardess tested, she also tests Positive. (This confirms your wife was not screwing around while you were gone.)

Point in case if you were tested upon arrival, a mess, probably a Divorce would not be played out, you marriage might have been saved. Yes no one died, But look at the mess you caused by not being tested and quarantined!

The Cambodia model is the most secure, I think, apart from the exemption for Khmer to be tested prior to boarding. 

https://aecnewstoday.com/2020/international-travel-in-the-age-of-covid-19-cambodia-leads-the-world-with-user-pays-system/ 

 

[OffshoreMig]

What if you are not married but have children who are Thai Citizens?

[reallyaffiliated]

Sucks.. not married (yet)

[P100]

4 hours ago, robblok said:

Seems logical that they first get Thais back then people who are married to Thais. There is only limit place in quarantine. Why would retirees and even people on elite visa (like me) get in before their own citizen and those married to their own citizen.

 

IMHO they are doing it right and now in this topic you got married guys moaning about the quarantine. Its the same for Thais and if you don't like it don't come back. Do you feel so special that they have to adjust the rules just for you. Just be grateful your allowed. Its all about capacity and that is not unlimited. 

what capacity are u talking about? people go in quarantine? they have homes in Thailand, condos and houses. There they will stay in quarantine, if needed. They don`t stay in hotels or public facilities so where do you see capacity issues?

[P100]

13 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

But that's a dumbed down answer and serves the 'uneducated masses'

 

You, me, everyone-else were sold the 'lock down' on the premise that the spread rate needed to be controlled to 'flatten the curve' and not overwhelm the health-services - This has come with an almost inconceivable cost to the Economy (Thailand's and the Global Economy).

 

The 'curve flattening' objectives and not overwhelming the health services were met well over a month ago, it was around the same time more was known about the virus and the fatality rates were nowhere near as high as expected and primarily a result of comorbidity.

 

 

The lock-down decisions were based on Models of a new virus we knew nothing about. Without the benefit of hindsight or any further knowledge or SARS-CoV-2 lock-down was the only logical and safe decision. We now know a lot more of the effects of SARS-CoV-2 and how it causes Covid-19 in some and is lethal to those with existing severe conditions.

 

 

It's becoming clear that like the common cold, like seasonal influenza and many others, SARS-CoV-2 is a virus we will have to live with.

 

Delaying the acceptance of this is nothing more than political movement - Face saving all round to avoid the reality of admitting the massive over-reaction on a global scale.

 

The 'over reaction' wasn't an over-reaction at the time because we didn't know what the virus could do and thus trusted the models, then politics took over - those who made the decision would be committing political suicide if they admitted they over reacted.

 

This does seem difficult for simple minds to understand, those who would argue 'but, Thailand doesn't want the virus' without understanding that this is a long term impossibility and inevitably the 'new normal' involves living alongside such viruses.

 

Everyone is talking of 'vaccines', however, the influenza vaccine is only 40-60% effective. We may not be able to create an effective vaccine, we may just find better ways to treat Covid-19 as we have done with HIV (which has also had billions thrown at it).

 

Thus, the idea that 'Thailand doesn't want the virus' as a solution to resolve the issue is preposterous when taking a long term outlook with the understanding that the lock-down was simply about ensuring the hospitals were not overwhelmed.

 

Future will tell whether living with this virus becomes a new normal or not. Looking at those countries that have not taken good measures like US (freedom approach), Great Britain (ignorance approach), Sweden (approach of no restrictions, corrected too late) they show us how many deaths we can have if we let down our guards. So I don`t think it ever will be acceptable to say covid19 is a kind of influenza and just live with it or die.

[unheard]

1 hour ago, samran said:

I was told - and it sounds about right - that Thailand has the capacity to quarantine about 500 of its own citizens per day arriving back from overseas. And there is still a backlog. Paying to stay in hotels will alleviate some of it, but that will only be a small weight off things.

The self-paid quarantine capacity is steadily increasing and might well exceed the demand when more hotels jump on the program.

The backlog of returning Thais is no more.

One can get on a chartered flight back to Thailand within a week or two if desired.

[unheard]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

So if you are interested in coming you would do well to contact the Embassy now, apply for visa and let them know you want to come.

Not yet since the details of the program are still being determined.

As soon as the official policy rolls out the embassy/consulates will announce something on their websites and will be ready to put you into processing.

[reallyaffiliated]

Maybe a little off topic, but is it easy to get a thai work permit if you're self employed and own your own internet business?

[unheard]

48 minutes ago, P100 said:

what capacity are u talking about? people go in quarantine? they have homes in Thailand, condos and houses.

There they will stay in quarantine, if needed. They don`t stay in hotels or public facilities so where do you see capacity issues?

A government provided (for Thais) or self-paid approved by the government quarantine facility  is a required condition to be able to come in and there's no way around that no matter how many condos or houses you have in Thailand.

[SiSePuede419]

Help!

 

I'm "stranded" in the country I was born in, grew up in and spent my whole life in before I "moved" to Thailand for uh, reasons. ????

[DrJack54]

23 minutes ago, reallyaffiliated said:

Maybe a little off topic, but is it easy to get a thai work permit if you're self employed and own your own internet business?

No

 

 

 

50 minutes ago, P100 said:

what capacity are u talking about? people go in quarantine? they have homes in Thailand, condos and houses. There they will stay in quarantine, if needed. They don`t stay in hotels or public facilities so where do you see capacity issues?

Quarantine is not to be confused with "self isolation". Quarantine means met at the airport, then put on bus and driven to designated hotel. Confined to room for 14 days with meals delivered by trained staff.

Hence capacity issues. Not just about accommodation but the whole process.

[Mr Meeseeks]

5 hours ago, robblok said:

Seems logical that they first get Thais back then people who are married to Thais. There is only limit place in quarantine. Why would retirees and even people on elite visa (like me) get in before their own citizen and those married to their own citizen.

 

IMHO they are doing it right and now in this topic you got married guys moaning about the quarantine. Its the same for Thais and if you don't like it don't come back. Do you feel so special that they have to adjust the rules just for you. Just be grateful your allowed. Its all about capacity and that is not unlimited. 

The hierarchy should be:

Thais

Tax payers (incl. work permit holders, company directors, business owners etc.)

Married and/or with kids

 

Tourists and everyone else incl. students and retirees.

[Sheryl]

55 minutes ago, unheard said:

Not yet since the details of the program are still being determined.

As soon as the official policy rolls out the embassy/consulates will announce something on their websites and will be ready to put you into processing.

 

He still needs a non-O visa since he does nto currently have one. Can apply for that in the meantime.

[Berti]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

The 14 day quarantine is a sticking point. Understandingly a necessary one without a viable alternative.

 

In the UK I have taken a Covid-19 test (48 hr result). If these tests were available for arrivals I'm sure people would be happy to pay for them instead of having to do a 14 day quarantine.

 

If arrivals were to take a Covid-19 test on arrival followed by a 2-3 day quarantine while awaiting results the arrivals 'back-log' would be streamlined.

If the testing efficiency could be improved the arrivals 'back-log' would be limited to the airport.

 

Remember - This is not about eradicating Covid-19 but keeping the spread rate down such that the spread rate is limited while the economy can continue.

 

Absolutely agree.

But Thailand will never follow this strategy and try to combine tourism and containment/limiting of the virus.

 

I'm convinced that they spoke to the Chinese government a couple of weeks ago and the Chinese told them, as soon as you have no new cases we will open the borders to Thailand again. They can't get this out of their heads.

[northengr]

On 6/15/2020 at 6:19 AM, Eindhoven said:

 

Tourism is important to Thailand. The impression of safety is important. Perfectly adequate, may be perfect adequate for you. But it's not about you...

Safety is all in the eye of the beholder. Tourists are going to be rare few that want to sit in 14 day quarantine 3 star or 5 star. Thailand will have to loosen up in a few months or they will lose another year of tourists. Of course the generals will not miss a meal only the common people.