UK ready to quit EU on 'Australia terms' if no Brexit deal, Johnson says

[473geo]

Barnier and co are floundering around because their arrogant supposition that the UK would bow to the EU 'leverage' has unravelled.

They are now, it appears unable to come up with a soft Brexit option to appease both sides.

UK is just letting them know, we have put proposals, you will not accept, so be it. They have opened the door for the EU to accept 'Australia terms' once again the EU is floundering

The posturing is to be expected, perhaps as is the slow cranking of the EU decision process that will no doubt be severely hampering the discussions. UK can be flexible, the EU has yet to prove they carry that ability.

Edited June 29, 2020 by 473geo

[Rookiescot]

8 minutes ago, 473geo said:

Barnier and co are floundering around because their arrogant supposition that the UK would bow to the EU 'leverage' has unravelled.

They are now, it appears unable to come up with a soft Brexit option to appease both sides.

UK is just letting them know, we have put proposals, you will not accept, so be it. They have opened the door for the EU to accept 'Australia terms' once again the EU is floundering

The posturing is to be expected, perhaps as is the slow cranking of the EU decision process that will no doubt be severely hampering the discussions. UK can be flexible, the EU has yet to prove they carry that ability.

Its not the job of the EU to come up with a solution to the UK's stupidity.

It was the UK which voted to leave.

[vinny41]

27 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

and that's your point, fishing... ???

If fishing isn't a big deal why don't you go back to the fishing nations in the EU and tell them they are making a laughing stock out of the EU. The EU has told the UK many times that the UK can't expect to have the same access outside the EU that the UK had inside the EU.  And then these fishing nations demand exactly that status quo access

It has been reported that Barnier has gone back to these fishing nations asking them to change the status quo stand and each time he has been met with the same answer NON

[transam]

Just now, Rookiescot said:

Its not the job of the EU to come up with a solution to the UK's stupidity.

It was the UK which voted to leave.

What don't you understand. Brexit means leaving the EU to get our county and waters under our own control again, not the EU saying, oh we want access to your waters, it is about leaving, full stop....

Now if you get your way, Scot Independence, then Scotland can "try" to rejoin, then you can give them whatever you like.....????

[Mavideol]

5 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

If fishing isn't a big deal why don't you go back to the fishing nations in the EU and tell them they are making a laughing stock out of the EU. The EU has told the UK many times that the UK can't expect to have the same access outside the EU that the UK had inside the EU.  And then these fishing nations demand exactly that status quo access

It has been reported that Barnier has gone back to these fishing nations asking them to change the status quo stand and each time he has been met with the same answer NON

 .... links

Edited June 29, 2020 by Mavideol

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

If fishing isn't a big deal why don't you go back to the fishing nations in the EU and tell them they are making a laughing stock out of the EU. The EU has told the UK many times that the UK can't expect to have the same access outside the EU that the UK had inside the EU.  And then these fishing nations demand exactly that status quo access

It has been reported that Barnier has gone back to these fishing nations asking them to change the status quo stand and each time he has been met with the same answer NON

Access for the EU to UK waters has already been agreed. Its the price the UK has to pay to allow passporting of financial services in the City to the EU.

You can only play that trump card once.

[vinny41]

6 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

It has been reported ??? .... links

EU capitulation: Barnier to beg nations to cave on fishing demands - no deal NOW very real

Brussels could even move away from its hardline fisheries as part of the effort to secure a deal after the Prime Minister was briefed talks could soon collapse if the EU doesn’t agree to compromise on its red lines.

“We should probably get more realistic about our fishing position,” a senior diplomatic source told The Times.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1283597/Brexit-news-UK-EU-trade-talks-Michel-Barnier-fisheries-agreement-latest

Post-Brexit fishing rights progress blocked by EU member states

The EU’s chief negotiator had suggested a new process in a bid to break the deadlock over how to calculate fishing rights. 

But he was forced to abandon the move after EU fishing countries such as France, Belgium, Ireland, Denmark and the Netherlands rejected his bid for compromise and told him to hold firm to his red lines.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/07/post-brexit-fishing-rights-progress-blocked-eu-member-states/

Edited June 29, 2020 by vinny41

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Access for the EU to UK waters has already been agreed. Its the price the UK has to pay to allow passporting of financial services in the City to the EU.

You can only play that trump card once.

LInk please or is this a FAKE post

[Rookiescot]

5 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

LInk please or is this a FAKE post

Think it through for yourself. 

[Mavideol]

11 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

EU capitulation: Barnier to beg nations to cave on fishing demands - no deal NOW very real

Brussels could even move away from its hardline fisheries as part of the effort to secure a deal after the Prime Minister was briefed talks could soon collapse if the EU doesn’t agree to compromise on its red lines.

“We should probably get more realistic about our fishing position,” a senior diplomatic source told The Times.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1283597/Brexit-news-UK-EU-trade-talks-Michel-Barnier-fisheries-agreement-latest

Post-Brexit fishing rights progress blocked by EU member states

The EU’s chief negotiator had suggested a new process in a bid to break the deadlock over how to calculate fishing rights. 

But he was forced to abandon the move after EU fishing countries such as France, Belgium, Ireland, Denmark and the Netherlands rejected his bid for compromise and told him to hold firm to his red lines.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/07/post-brexit-fishing-rights-progress-blocked-eu-member-states/

don't cherry pick...

 

https://news.yahoo.com/brexit-angela-merkel-says-britain-155500061.html

Brexit: Angela Merkel says Britain must ‘live with the consequences’ of Boris Johnson’s decision to ditch close alignment with EU

Edited June 29, 2020 by Mavideol

[vinny41]

Just now, Rookiescot said:

Think it through for yourself. 

So must be Fake news as your unable to provide any link to support your post, 

[vinny41]

1 minute ago, Mavideol said:

don't cherry pick...

 

https://news.yahoo.com/brexit-angela-merkel-says-britain-155500061.html

Brexit: Angela Merkel says Britain must ‘live with the consequences’ of Boris Johnson’s decision to ditch close alignment with EU

No Cherry Picking excluding the exception of EU fishing nations wanting Status quo access to UK fishing grounds

[Mavideol]

12 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

EU capitulation: Barnier to beg nations to cave on fishing demands - no deal NOW very real

Brussels could even move away from its hardline fisheries as part of the effort to secure a deal after the Prime Minister was briefed talks could soon collapse if the EU doesn’t agree to compromise on its red lines.

“We should probably get more realistic about our fishing position,” a senior diplomatic source told The Times.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1283597/Brexit-news-UK-EU-trade-talks-Michel-Barnier-fisheries-agreement-latest

Post-Brexit fishing rights progress blocked by EU member states

The EU’s chief negotiator had suggested a new process in a bid to break the deadlock over how to calculate fishing rights. 

But he was forced to abandon the move after EU fishing countries such as France, Belgium, Ireland, Denmark and the Netherlands rejected his bid for compromise and told him to hold firm to his red lines.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/07/post-brexit-fishing-rights-progress-blocked-eu-member-states/

giving you a little outdated but always helpful information ....

 

https://theconversation.com/fact-check-is-80-of-uk-fish-given-away-to-the-rest-of-europe-39966

So despite the UK having quite extensive waters, fish stocks do not respect political boundaries, and many are mobile at some stage in their life: these fish are exclusive to neither the UK, the EU, nor the bordering Scandinavian states, but are a shared resource. It would be a major undertaking to establish exactly which proportions of each fish stock would occupy any national waters. These are also likely to change throughout the year, and from year to year. The CFP was designed to manage the mobile fishing fleets that pursue these common, mobile resources.

 

 

 

 

[Greenside]

On 6/28/2020 at 11:36 AM, edwinchester said:

So Farage, Johnson and Gove were all lying or mistaken when they all said a trade deal with the EU would be the easiest trade deal negotiated in history.

Delusional.

[Rookiescot]

5 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

So must be Fake news as your unable to provide any link to support your post, 

Right OK let me walk you through this.

What is the one thing the UK has that the EU want? Its access to fishing waters right?

Whats the biggest industry in the UK and where does it do a huge amount of its trading? Its the financial services in the City of London and the EU market.

Now if the UK wants access to those EU markets it will need passporting rights. Otherwise all those institutions in the City will have to move their headquarters to either Frankfurt or Paris. This will result in a massive loss of income for the UK.

So the fishing access is the price the UK will have to pay for that passporting.

The problem is at the moment the UK want to play the fishing card many times and the EU are having none of it. 

[473geo]

28 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Its not the job of the EU to come up with a solution to the UK's stupidity.

It was the UK which voted to leave.

Oh dear you feel the EU is not required provide solutions, only objections or demands, in a negotiation process where both sides are desperate to be perceived as cutting a good deal, is there any wonder the negotiations have proved difficult.

Or perhaps the EU really don't have the flexibilty or the answers that would sit well with the confirmation process of 20+ countries all protecting their own best interests

 

[vinny41]

France takes 84 percent of the quota for cod in the English Channel while the UK is allowed only nine percent, according to Barrie Deas, the CEO of the National Federation of Fishermen's Organisations. He explained that the extortionate quotas need to be ironed out in a Brexit trade deal between the UK and EU. It comes as the bloc wants to see the status quo maintained for fishing access and quotas, but the UK Government wants Britain to have controls of its own waters.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1300299/brexit-news-fishing-france-quota-channel-cod-EU-trade-talks-latest-boris-johnson

 

 

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, 473geo said:

Oh dear you feel the EU is not required provide solutions, only objections or demands, in a negotiation process where both sides are desperate to be perceived as cutting a good deal, is there any wonder the negotiations have proved difficult.

Or perhaps the EU really don't have the flexibilty or the answers that would sit well with the confirmation process of 20+ countries all protecting their own best interests

 

No its because the UK wants free access to the EU without being subjected to the same regulations the rest of the EU is.

Its not the EU's problem. Its the UK's.

[vinny41]

29 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Access for the EU to UK waters has already been agreed. Its the price the UK has to pay to allow passporting of financial services in the City to the EU.

You can only play that trump card once.

 

7 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Right OK let me walk you through this.

What is the one thing the UK has that the EU want? Its access to fishing waters right?

Whats the biggest industry in the UK and where does it do a huge amount of its trading? Its the financial services in the City of London and the EU market.

Now if the UK wants access to those EU markets it will need passporting rights. Otherwise all those institutions in the City will have to move their headquarters to either Frankfurt or Paris. This will result in a massive loss of income for the UK.

So the fishing access is the price the UK will have to pay for that passporting.

The problem is at the moment the UK want to play the fishing card many times and the EU are having none of it. 

But according to your post it's all been agreed except when asked to provide supporting links to your post so far you haven't provided any links 

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

France takes 84 percent of the quota for cod in the English Channel while the UK is allowed only nine percent, according to Barrie Deas, the CEO of the National Federation of Fishermen's Organisations. He explained that the extortionate quotas need to be ironed out in a Brexit trade deal between the UK and EU. It comes as the bloc wants to see the status quo maintained for fishing access and quotas, but the UK Government wants Britain to have controls of its own waters.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1300299/brexit-news-fishing-france-quota-channel-cod-EU-trade-talks-latest-boris-johnson

 

 

What the National federation of fishermen want and what they are going to get is likely to be vastly different.

When it comes to GDP and tax revenue the financial services in the UK massively outweigh the fishing industry.

The fishermen are going to be sold out.

Again.

It will be the second time a Conservative government has done this to them.

[transam]

18 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

don't cherry pick...

 

https://news.yahoo.com/brexit-angela-merkel-says-britain-155500061.html

Brexit: Angela Merkel says Britain must ‘live with the consequences’ of Boris Johnson’s decision to ditch close alignment with EU

So your German heroin has spoken and us Brits must obey, hmmm, that reminds me of another who spoke like that....  .....

[Rookiescot]

Just now, vinny41 said:

 

But according to your post it's all been agreed except when asked to provide supporting links to your post so far you haven't provided any links 

Right can you see any flaws in the logic of what I posted?

OK here you are since you are struggling to find it yourself.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/cdf8af0a-40fd-11ea-bdb5-169ba7be433d

[Opl]

18 minutes ago, 473geo said:

Oh dear you feel the EU is not required provide solutions, only objections or demands, in a negotiation process where both sides are desperate to be perceived as cutting a good deal, is there any wonder the negotiations have proved difficult.

Or perhaps the EU really don't have the flexibilty or the answers that would sit well with the confirmation process of 20+ countries all protecting their own best interests

 

While Johnson - in favor of a no-deal (AKA "Australia terms") bets on both the collapse of the EU and the revitalization of Global Britain boosted by coronavirus, and yes "Status Quo" is the best negociation tactic (in addition to blaming the French) of course!

The EU is since years preparing for a no-deal...too.       

Edited June 29, 2020 by Opl

[JonnyF]

46 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Its not the job of the EU to come up with a solution to the UK's stupidity.

It was the UK which voted to leave.

We have offered a solution. A free trade deal similar to the one with Canada. It is only the EU's inflexible, intransigent, childish behavior that is preventing such an obvious solution from happening. They are acting like a rejected teenage girl throwing a tantrum.

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Right can you see any flaws in the logic of what I posted?

OK here you are since you are struggling to find it yourself.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/cdf8af0a-40fd-11ea-bdb5-169ba7be433d

UK and EU set for clash on fish and financial services the headline from your FT link

Doesn't say EU fishing access has been agreed 

[JonnyF]

30 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

don't cherry pick...

 

https://news.yahoo.com/brexit-angela-merkel-says-britain-155500061.html

Brexit: Angela Merkel says Britain must ‘live with the consequences’ of Boris Johnson’s decision to ditch close alignment with EU

I will be delighted to live with those consequences. The sooner the better. 

[vinny41]

10 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

What the National federation of fishermen want and what they are going to get is likely to be vastly different.

When it comes to GDP and tax revenue the financial services in the UK massively outweigh the fishing industry.

The fishermen are going to be sold out.

Again.

It will be the second time a Conservative government has done this to them.

When it comes to GDP and tax revenue the financial services in the UK are massive

You have to question why Scotland would want to walk away from the tax revenue the financial services provides

[473geo]

5 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

No its because the UK wants free access to the EU without being subjected to the same regulations the rest of the EU is.

Its not the EU's problem. Its the UK's.

As an example UK is running an agricultural trade deficit of around 10% why would they want to pay a 'membership fee', which is the real issue you appear to ignore, when UK can raise tarrifs against EU imported goods in a non free trade environment, thus encouraging UK purchase of UK produce.

If as many of you predict the a slump in the GBP occurs then a reciprocal tarrif from the EU would carry little effect on the pricing of UK goods in Europe.

[Opl]

4 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

We have offered a solution. A free trade deal similar to the one with Canada. It is only the EU's inflexible, intransigent, childish behavior that is preventing such an obvious solution from happening. They are acting like a rejected teenage girl throwing a tantrum.

It was Switzerland, then Norway... ( both too soft)... then Canada (undefinite).... now Australia, and soon, No-Deal - anything else left?     

[RichardL]

3 minutes ago, 473geo said:

As an example UK is running an agricultural trade deficit of around 10% why would they want to pay a 'membership fee', which is the real issue you appear to ignore, when UK can raise tarrifs against EU imported goods in a non free trade environment, thus encouraging UK purchase of UK produce.

If as many of you predict the a slump in the GBP occurs then a reciprocal tarrif from the EU would carry little effect on the pricing of UK goods in Europe.

I believe it's not so simple, as under WTO terms you have to apply tariffs equally. Reciprocal tariffs would also be harmful to a country that imports so much. It's not just a case of "buying British" instead, as manufacturing often relies on imported raw materials that can't be sourced here.