UK ready to quit EU on 'Australia terms' if no Brexit deal, Johnson says

[tomacht8]

44 minutes ago, Loiner said:

You still forget that it’s all about our choice and our control. 

Of course.

The EU doesn't prescribe which oranges you have to eat. On the contrary, the range of goods in the delicatessen supermarkets is huge, products from all over the world.

 

But the Brexit fairy tale, which you can just swap all your grocery suppliers, and it can buy the previous goods in other countries in the same quality, free of tariffs, i.e. cheaper, is just not right if you look at the individual products in detail.

 

But the real problem with the Brexit UK is not in purchasing, but in sales. Over 50% of UK exports go to the EU. How new markets are to be found quickly for that trade volume is beyond me. Especially against the background that the UK still has no trade agreements. The UK clearly overestimates its negotiating position.

[Loiner]

31 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Of course.

The EU doesn't prescribe which oranges you have to eat. On the contrary, the range of goods in the delicatessen supermarkets is huge, products from all over the world.

 

But the Brexit fairy tale, which you can just swap all your grocery suppliers, and it can buy the previous goods in other countries in the same quality, free of tariffs, i.e. cheaper, is just not right if you look at the individual products in detail.

 

But the real problem with the Brexit UK is not in purchasing, but in sales. Over 50% of UK exports go to the EU. How new markets are to be found quickly for that trade volume is beyond me. Especially against the background that the UK still has no trade agreements. The UK clearly overestimates its negotiating position.

Yes we can buy our produce and all other products from around the world. They will be free of EU tariffs. 

Do you think it should all happen on one day -  1st Jan 2021? Probably not, but that taking back of control will be there forever, as a sovereign nation again. 

Thats is what the EU and Remainers still underestimate. 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Loiner

[Pattaya46]

21 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Yes we can buy our produce and all other products from around the world. They will be of EU tariffs.  //

Yes, and?

That doesn't mean these product will be cheaper for you !

Many countries have trade agreement with EU allowing lower tarif than WTO (if not zero).

[Nigel Garvie]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

Yes we can buy our produce and all other products from around the world. They will be free of EU tariffs. 

Do you think it should all happen on one day -  1st Jan 2021? Probably not, but that taking back of control will be there forever, as a sovereign nation again. 

Thats is what the EU and Remainers still underestimate. 

I'm sorry Loiner, but I think we have been through this many many times before in this forum, but in case you didn't notice I will repeat. Britain never stopped being a sovereign nation, how do you think we had a referendum if we weren't sovereign. It was just another part of the lie package you were sold. 

 

That is the problem for Scotland, they are not currently a sovereign nation, therefore they cannot - so they say - have a referendum without UK agreement. I'm sure you can see the difference.

[candide]

3 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

Of course.

The EU doesn't prescribe which oranges you have to eat. On the contrary, the range of goods in the delicatessen supermarkets is huge, products from all over the world.

 

But the Brexit fairy tale, which you can just swap all your grocery suppliers, and it can buy the previous goods in other countries in the same quality, free of tariffs, i.e. cheaper, is just not right if you look at the individual products in detail.

 

But the real problem with the Brexit UK is not in purchasing, but in sales. Over 50% of UK exports go to the EU. How new markets are to be found quickly for that trade volume is beyond me. Especially against the background that the UK still has no trade agreements. The UK clearly overestimates its negotiating position.

Exactly. It looks like Brexiters have no idea of what it actually means to manage a business. Plenty of businesses are striving just in order to survive and keep on paying their employees' wages.

In their fairy tale's view, It seems it's easy to find new customers, and after all it's just a matter of policy decision. Actually, that's a quite bureaucratic view of business.

[transam]

13 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

Yes.

We will all lose part of our prosperity.

The UK and the EU.

That's why Brexit is nonsense.

But the UK will bleed more than the EU.

I read yesterday that 4 EU member states are really thinking of bailing the EU, and there's you and others going round in circles trashing the UK every day here...????

 

 

Can today, you EU lot, move away from oranges to say, eeeer, cabbages, thank you..

[RuamRudy]

11 hours ago, Loiner said:

taking back of control will be there forever, as a sovereign nation again. 

Thats is what the EU and Remainers still underestimate. 

It's not that I underestimate it - I simply don't understand it. What control have we lost? How will life feel better when we have regained it? What are the characteristics of a sovereign nation that I can look forward to?

[kingdong]

9 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

It's not that I underestimate it - I simply don't understand it. What control have we lost? How will life feel better when we have regained it? What are the characteristics of a sovereign nation that I can look forward to?

living in a country ruled by its citizens,and not some unelected amateur social engineers.

[transam]

16 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

It's not that I underestimate it - I simply don't understand it. What control have we lost? How will life feel better when we have regained it? What are the characteristics of a sovereign nation that I can look forward to?

What about cabbages....? ????

[RuamRudy]

11 minutes ago, kingdong said:

living in a country ruled by its citizens,and not some unelected amateur social engineers.

That is a nebulous slogan that appeals to a sector, but I am more concerned with how will it improve my daily life? At the moment I foresee increased prices on both imported and domestic products and a restriction in my freedom of movement. What TANGIBLE positive benefits will offset those negatives?

[RuamRudy]

8 minutes ago, transam said:

What about cabbages....? ????

I am not sure I get your point. Are cabbages all we have to look forward to?

[herfiehandbag]

23 minutes ago, kingdong said:

living in a country ruled by its citizens,and not some unelected amateur social engineers.

Steady on "kingdong", they are hardly amateurs. They are a bunch of highly proficient professional political operators; after all in the last few decades they have managed to change a trading organisation - a common market if you like - into a nascent federal European State, in which they have manoeuvred themselves to form self perpetuating ruling establishment. In doing so (almost always by negotiated treaty rather than by a popular mandate) they have taken control of many aspects of fiscal, commercial and foreign policy from the member states, and are currently working on taking control of defence. They keep the political establishments of those member states in line by offering the opportunity for them to move into a "second political career" within that federal structure.

 

Hardly amateurs - they are well on the way to managing what several other movements over the last couple of centuries have failed to do - control of Europe.

 

You are right about the unelected bit though...

Edited July 6, 2020 by herfiehandbag

[Moo 2]

Brexit had a bad start, thanks to Sister Theresa and Boris the Clown, four years to get out and still in!

[bannork]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

It's not that I underestimate it - I simply don't understand it. What control have we lost? How will life feel better when we have regained it? What are the characteristics of a sovereign nation that I can look forward to?

Chlorinated chicken, lower food standards from the US, less workers/ human rights, more expensive imports, fish for every meal. But it's all worth it because you, sorry I meant the powers to be, are 'in control'.

[transam]

49 minutes ago, bannork said:

Chlorinated chicken, lower food standards from the US, less workers/ human rights, more expensive imports, fish for every meal. But it's all worth it because you, sorry I meant the powers to be, are 'in control'.

What a load of guess work.......????

........Now can you tell me your thoughts on our EU problems with cabbages, please..

[vogie]

48 minutes ago, Moo 2 said:

Brexit had a bad start, thanks to Sister Theresa and Boris the Clown, four years to get out and still in!

I totally agree with your assessment of Mrs May failure in basically everything she put her hand to, but I'm sure that there are many remainers and revokers (same thing really) that given another chance would jump at the opportunity of settling for Mays Brino deal. Her deal was staying in anyway, but when you get greedy and are not willing to compromise or even give an inch you deserve to lose everything. The remainers were so selfish that they ignored what the majority of the electorate voted for, remember only 34% of our population wanted to remain in the EU, now they are nursing their wounds and thinking of what could have been.

 

But why you have to include Boris in your post is a total mystery, Boris did everything, and more asked of him. Remember parliament was at a logjam and full of remainers unwilling to accept the wishes of a democratic referendum, Brilliant Boris had the nous to offer the UK a general election and see what the British public thought of the MPs that were trying to stifle Brexit, history shows that the electorate wasn't too happy with the antics of our elected MPs and voted most the MPs that were playing games out, making room for MPs that would carry out the wishes of our people, basically Boris turned a remainer parliament into a parliament that would work for the people, but you will always get the remainers trying to blame everyone else but themselves. It was the Labour Party that were going to vote againgst anything that the Tories offered them and now remainers throughout the land are regretting their self centered approach to leaving the EU.

 

[RuamRudy]

7 minutes ago, transam said:

What a load of guess work.......????

........Now can you tell me your thoughts on our EU problems with cabbages, please..

But that is the point - those issues Bannork raised are very real and credible points. I have asked many times what positives we can expect from Brexit, yet after a year of campaigning before the referendum and 4 years of preparation afterwards, leavers are still unable to point to anything positive, persistently resorting to meaningless slogans as if they actually mean anything at all.  

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

But that is the point - those issues Bannork raised are very real and credible points. I have asked many times what positives we can expect from Brexit, yet after a year of campaigning before the referendum and 4 years of preparation afterwards, leavers are still unable to point to anything positive, persistently resorting to meaningless slogans as if they actually mean anything at all.  

Chlorinated chicken is a slogan as is "only 37% voted for Brexit, it is all some remainers have.

[RuamRudy]

Just now, vogie said:

Chlorinated chicken is a slogan as is "only 37% voted for Brexit, it is all some remainers have.

Well rather than fighting slogan with slogan, how about putting forward something credible? How can the average man or woman in the street, who pays no attention to politics and is not overly concerned about the notion of sovereignty, expect to benefit from Brexit?

[vogie]

Just now, RuamRudy said:

Well rather than fighting slogan with slogan, how about putting forward something credible? How can the average man or woman in the street, who pays no attention to politics and is not overly concerned about the notion of sovereignty, expect to benefit from Brexit?

The biggest win for Brexit is democracy, can you imagine what would have happened if a democratic vote had been ignored, well I'll tell you, it doesn't even bare thinking about. 

But since Brexit there are many more people on the street taking interest in politics that would otherwise have done so, that is why Boris achieved a magnificent 80+ seat majority.

[transam]

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Well rather than fighting slogan with slogan, how about putting forward something credible? How can the average man or woman in the street, who pays no attention to politics and is not overly concerned about the notion of sovereignty, expect to benefit from Brexit?

But you don't know what's going to happen in the future, so why ask folk here, cos it is a new road, a road that you haven't got the balls to go down, you just want apron strings to feel all cuddly too.

Now how about my cabbages, you can look in your.......

 

......and tell me.................????

[luckyluke]

Never understood and still don't understand this E.U. thing.

I know that all Belgians, employed, non-employed, retired, received 2% increase on their monthly payment, as we usually do every year.

Now I don't know if we will still received it next year.

It is my opinion that the E.U. has nothing to say in the internal politics of a country member of the Union.

Which for the majority of the "man in the street" is all what counts.

 

[Rookiescot]

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Well rather than fighting slogan with slogan, how about putting forward something credible? How can the average man or woman in the street, who pays no attention to politics and is not overly concerned about the notion of sovereignty, expect to benefit from Brexit?

Let me help you here mate. After 5 years we still can not get any answers from Brexiteers. The slogans dont work any more. The EU has not capitulated. The Empire has still not reappeared. The easiest deal in history is still MIA.

What will be the ONLY benefit of Brexit will be the break up of the UK. Scottish independence and a united Ireland.

Oh and a welcome back to the EU for Scotland within a year of independence being gained.

[transam]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Let me help you here mate. After 5 years we still can not get any answers from Brexiteers. The slogans dont work any more. The EU has not capitulated. The Empire has still not reappeared. The easiest deal in history is still MIA.

What will be the ONLY benefit of Brexit will be the break up of the UK. Scottish independence and a united Ireland.

Oh and a welcome back to the EU for Scotland within a year of independence being gained.

But all we get from remainers is guesses, nothing more, nothing less, the "crystal Ball Brigade".....

You see, I am not going to be like you and guess, no crystal ball, for me what counts is the UK once again can control itself. Nothing more, nothing less...Fresh air again..

After all, there were folk that didn't like the UK the way it was, and where are they now, gone, but remnants are still lurking in the woodwork......

 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2020 by Rimmer
Picture removed

[melvinmelvin]

 

I learn that the debate is back to pre referendum level

...

never thought barstools only supported looking backwards

 

it is unlikely that Brexit will not surface after Xmas

so, what now? where to head? what to aim for?

 

[transam]

6 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

I learn that the debate is back to pre referendum level

...

never thought barstools only supported looking backwards

 

it is unlikely that Brexit will not surface after Xmas

so, what now? where to head? what to aim for?

 

Well you, get that expensive V8 "skiff" moving......????

Edited July 6, 2020 by transam

[bannork]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

I totally agree with your assessment of Mrs May failure in basically everything she put her hand to, but I'm sure that there are many remainers and revokers (same thing really) that given another chance would jump at the opportunity of settling for Mays Brino deal. Her deal was staying in anyway, but when you get greedy and are not willing to compromise or even give an inch you deserve to lose everything. The remainers were so selfish that they ignored what the majority of the electorate voted for, remember only 34% of our population wanted to remain in the EU, now they are nursing their wounds and thinking of what could have been.

 

But why you have to include Boris in your post is a total mystery, Boris did everything, and more asked of him. Remember parliament was at a logjam and full of remainers unwilling to accept the wishes of a democratic referendum, Brilliant Boris had the nous to offer the UK a general election and see what the British public thought of the MPs that were trying to stifle Brexit, history shows that the electorate wasn't too happy with the antics of our elected MPs and voted most the MPs that were playing games out, making room for MPs that would carry out the wishes of our people, basically Boris turned a remainer parliament into a parliament that would work for the people, but you will always get the remainers trying to blame everyone else but themselves. It was the Labour Party that were going to vote againgst anything that the Tories offered them and now remainers throughout the land are regretting their self centered approach to leaving the EU.

 

You know perfectly well it was only 37% of the electorate who voted to leave, a minority.

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, bannork said:

You know perfectly well it was only 37% of the electorate who voted to leave, a minority.

Jargon man strikes back.

[bannork]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

Chlorinated chicken is a slogan as is "only 37% voted for Brexit, it is all some remainers have.

Remainers are keenly aware of the loss of so much due to Brexit. The rights to travel freely and live in Europe, the tarrif free trade, the sense of belonging to a continent which shares so much in culture with the UK.

And in response, all the Brexiteers can say is,' take back control' which means control immigration, and in that they mean Islam.

How many Muslims from the EU migrate to the UK?

[bannork]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

Jargon man strikes back.

Serves you right for writing lies.