8 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

Good morning.

I think the 3,7 million eu nationals of the EU like the nice weather and the friendly people in th UK. 

In addition, the English language is widely used. English is a compulsory subject in all EU schools and is relatively easy to learn. So it makes sense for many to try their luck in the UK. 

 

The UK also has a great need for geriatric nurses, hospital nurses, cleaners, harvest workers and construction workers. These jobs are not so popular with the British. That is why in the past the UK retirement homes, hospitals, hotels, vegetable growers and construction companies were grateful to be able to fill the relatively poorly paid jobs with EU foreigners.

on your last point just go,es to show what a workers utopia the eu must be.

2 hours ago, johnpetersen said:

Please. The Euro has been an almost unmitigated blessing for Germany. The value of the Euro is depressed because of those southern economies. What would the cost of German exports be if it still used the Deutschmark?

if it wasn,t for the eu there wouldn,t be any german exports,no one would be able to afford them.

7 hours ago, bannork said:

True, but as leader of Labour he was effective.

if you mean at murdering innocent civilians he certainly was,pity the working classes realised what a sell out he was,blair in politics was like a two bob,sorry two week millionaire in pattaya,lend,lend lend to spend spend spend.

2 hours ago, johnpetersen said:

Please. The Euro has been an almost unmitigated blessing for Germany. The value of the Euro is depressed because of those southern economies. What would the cost of German exports be if it still used the Deutschmark?

No the Euro has been a gigantic drain on German taxpayers. Who now pay for Greece, Polish motorways and will now bail out Southern Europe with Corona aid. Merkel, the great idiot, agreed to Coronabonds on top.

 

Germany did exceptionally well with exports prior to the EU and would do exceptionally well with exports without the EU.

8 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Well do something about it then, because you are being helluva clingy for all that bravado!

i wish they would .scotland gets "free" prescriptions and education paid for by english taxpayers who have to pay for both subsidies.theres owt for nowt lad.

9 hours ago, Logosone said:

Tell me about it, the cost of the EU for Germany is crushing. We basically pay Greece, and now another wealth transfer to Southern Europe is looming, Covid19 reparations. And of course the Stan and Ollie duo of vd Leyen and Merkel have agreed to Coronabonds. It's bad.

 

But I believe the UK had a trade deficit with EU countries before it joined the EU, no?

No, Germany has benefitted at Greeces cost due to the Euro .

The Deutschmark would be surging due to the strength of the German economy and the Greek Drachma would be plummeting .

   Which would make Germanys exports expensive .

The Euro remains low, due to Countries like Greece keeping it down and Germanys exports remain competitive 

32 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

No, Germany has benefitted at Greeces cost due to the Euro .

The Deutschmark would be surging due to the strength of the German economy and the Greek Drachma would be plummeting .

   Which would make Germanys exports expensive .

The Euro remains low, due to Countries like Greece keeping it down and Germanys exports remain competitive 

Hahahahahahahaha.

 

Benefitted at Greece's cost. That's priceless.

 

Picked up the tab for Greece's lies and economic mismanagement more like.

 

Currencies do not just go one way and the German economy has had it's issues, I doubt the Mark would be a problem for exports, it wasn't when we had it. We did very well indeed with the Mark.

 

Germany's exports are always competitive because we produce better quality than anybody else. Do you think people buy Mercedes and BMW because they like Germans so much? They buy it because of quality.

 

Same with German machines, chemicals, sports apparel and other consumer goods. We will always be competitive because we are the best. We produce the best. And we are the best looking. Plus we won four World cups. 

 

Nothing will ever stop German genius. Nothing.

4 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Hahahahahahahaha.

 

Benefitted at Greece's cost. That's priceless.

 

Picked up the tab for Greece's lies and economic mismanagement more like.

 

Currencies do not just go one way and the German economy has had it's issues, I doubt the Mark would be a problem for exports, it wasn't when we had it. We did very well indeed with the Mark.

 

Germany's exports are always competitive because we produce better quality than anybody else. Do you think people buy Mercedes and BMW because they like Germans so much? They buy it because of quality.

 

Same with German machines, chemicals, sports apparel and other consumer goods. We will always be competitive because we are the best. We produce the best. And we are the best looking. Plus we won four World cups. 

 

Nothing will ever stop German genius. Nothing.

Churchill ?

5 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

Churchill ?

Oh jeez.... living in the past.

4 hours ago, izod10 said:

Nissan are quitting the EU

Yes, the EU and Japan have closed a trade agreement. The transportation costs to the EU are cheaper for the Japanese, than the production in the EU in non-highly efficient factories.

 

But the UK plant is also under scrutiny.

The automaker has said UK operations are "unsustainable" if the country leaves the EU without a trade deal.

https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/nissan-will-cut-nearly-250-jobs-uk-plant

 

https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/nissan-warns-uk-plant-unsustainable-without-eu-trade-deal

57 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

No, Germany has benefitted at Greeces cost due to the Euro .

The Deutschmark would be surging due to the strength of the German economy and the Greek Drachma would be plummeting .

   Which would make Germanys exports expensive .

The Euro remains low, due to Countries like Greece keeping it down and Germanys exports remain competitive 

The first part is nonsense.

The second part is half correct. If the euro did not exist and Germany had its D mark, Germany could control the value of the D mark via the exchange rate hinge and its monetary policy. Which would be much more advantageous. Just like the UK kept its British pound.

 

Greece should never have been included in the euro area. Greece massively falsified its economic documents when it entered. There was almost no tax revenue in Greece. Mainly undeclared work and undeclared money. Retirement age for many under 50 years. Officials who only worked 2- 3 days a week. Salaries continued to be paid for civil servants who had already died since years, and so on.

 

The problem with the euro is that the various economies have to steer jointly with an enormous north-south divide. If the southern states had their own currencies, they could devalue accordingly to become more competitive. Against this background, the second part of the statement is half correct.

The monetary and exchange rate policy of the European Central Bank is therefore never optimal for every country in the Eurozone.

On 6/28/2020 at 11:44 AM, vogie said:

Too many remainers can't see it but they are no different to the Japanese soldiers of WW2 hidden in the Philippine jungle not believing that the war is over. Believe me, the war is over and we're leaving the EU.

I wonder why the UK is still in the EU. They could have say since years "we are out now, lick my ...". But they don´t. I wonder why. Perhaps because they want to have a deal with the hated EU? 

5 hours ago, johnpetersen said:

What would the cost of German exports be if it still used the Deutschmark?

How low could be the taxes for the people and the companies like car makers if Germany wouldn´t pay billions to the EU? A higher currency would make the cars more expensive, lower taxes would make them cheaper. 

3 hours ago, Logosone said:

No the Euro has been a gigantic drain on German taxpayers. Who now pay for Greece, Polish motorways and will now bail out Southern Europe with Corona aid. Merkel, the great idiot, agreed to Coronabonds on top.

 

Germany did exceptionally well with exports prior to the EU and would do exceptionally well with exports without the EU.

those were the days my friend,you thought they,d never end..........

2 hours ago, Logosone said:

Hahahahahahahaha.

 

Benefitted at Greece's cost. That's priceless.

 

Picked up the tab for Greece's lies and economic mismanagement more like.

 

Currencies do not just go one way and the German economy has had it's issues, I doubt the Mark would be a problem for exports, it wasn't when we had it. We did very well indeed with the Mark.

 

Germany's exports are always competitive because we produce better quality than anybody else. Do you think people buy Mercedes and BMW because they like Germans so much? They buy it because of quality.

 

Same with German machines, chemicals, sports apparel and other consumer goods. We will always be competitive because we are the best. We produce the best. And we are the best looking. Plus we won four World cups. 

 

Nothing will ever stop German genius. Nothing.

you,re right there letting in over a million economic migrants was a stroke of genius.they,ll soon dilute the germanic gene pool.

3 hours ago, Logosone said:

Hahahahahahahaha.

 

Benefitted at Greece's cost. That's priceless.

 

Picked up the tab for Greece's lies and economic mismanagement more like.

 

Currencies do not just go one way and the German economy has had it's issues, I doubt the Mark would be a problem for exports, it wasn't when we had it. We did very well indeed with the Mark.

 

Germany's exports are always competitive because we produce better quality than anybody else. Do you think people buy Mercedes and BMW because they like Germans so much? They buy it because of quality.

 

Same with German machines, chemicals, sports apparel and other consumer goods. We will always be competitive because we are the best. We produce the best. And we are the best looking. Plus we won four World cups. 

 

Nothing will ever stop German genius. Nothing.

Never...ever

3 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

The first part is nonsense.

The second part is half correct. If the euro did not exist and Germany had its D mark, Germany could control the value of the D mark via the exchange rate hinge and its monetary policy. Which would be much more advantageous. Just like the UK kept its British pound.

 

Greece should never have been included in the euro area. Greece massively falsified its economic documents when it entered. There was almost no tax revenue in Greece. Mainly undeclared work and undeclared money. Retirement age for many under 50 years. Officials who only worked 2- 3 days a week. Salaries continued to be paid for civil servants who had already died since years, and so on.

 

The problem with the euro is that the various economies have to steer jointly with an enormous north-south divide. If the southern states had their own currencies, they could devalue accordingly to become more competitive. Against this background, the second part of the statement is half correct.

The monetary and exchange rate policy of the European Central Bank is therefore never optimal for every country in the Eurozone.

I actually agree mostly with that.

 

Except:

Germany has prospered more since the Euro’s inception, which gave it an essentially devalued currency, thus giving German industry a competitive advantage.

 

Greece should never have been included in the euro area. Agree. But the EEC (EU) was also aware that Greece did not formally qualify for admission. In other words the EEC (EU) ignored their own rules; not for the first time and certainly not for the last. 

 

Agree -  the problem with the Euro is partly the north-south economic divide. Greece could not extricate itself from its economic mess because it could not shift interest rates, nor devalue its (Euro) currency. 

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

I actually agree mostly with that.

 

Except:

Germany has prospered more since the Euro’s inception, which gave it an essentially devalued currency, thus giving German industry a competitive advantage.

 

Greece should never have been included in the euro area. Agree. But the EEC (EU) was also aware that Greece did not formally qualify for admission. In other words the EEC (EU) ignored their own rules; not for the first time and certainly not for the last. 

 

Agree -  the problem with the Euro is partly the north-south economic divide. Greece could not extricate itself from its economic mess because it could not shift interest rates, nor devalue its (Euro) currency. 

This rationale may be relevant for countries who have an industry, such as Italy, but I am not sure about Greece. The reason is that Greece doesn't produce much, so a devaluation would not make it more competitive. Agricultural prices depend on world prices and the country is already overwhelmed by tourists. It would also increase the debt burden.

As mentioned by tomacht8, the problem originates in more fundamental issues: getting people and institutions such as the Greek Church to actually pay taxes, having an efficient administration, an accurate land register, etc...

4 minutes ago, candide said:

This rationale may be relevant for countries who have an industry, such as Italy, but I am not sure about Greece. The reason is that Greece doesn't produce much, so a devaluation would not make it more competitive. Agricultural prices depend on world prices and the country is already overwhelmed by tourists. It would also increase the debt burden.

As mentioned by tomacht8, the problem originates in more fundamental issues: getting people and institutions such as the Greek Church to actually pay taxes, having an efficient administration, an accurate land register, etc...

perhaps if the greeks washed up after every meal like the rest of us instead of smashing their plates they wouldn,t be in their current financial predicament.

1 hour ago, kingdong said:

perhaps if the greeks washed up after every meal like the rest of us instead of smashing their plates they wouldn,t be in their current financial predicament.

do the dishes liquids ain't cheap nowadays

 

 

10 hours ago, kingdong said:

on your last point just go,es to show what a workers utopia the eu must be.

The Euro has been pretty much of a disaster. It's not the same thing as the EU.

8 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

 

The second part is half correct. If the euro did not exist and Germany had its D mark, Germany could control the value of the D mark via the exchange rate hinge and its monetary policy. Which would be much more advantageous. Just like the UK kept its British pound.

 

 

This is untrue. You can only wring so much devaluation out of monetary policy. If a huge surplus of foreign currency flows into your economy, for whatever the reason, be it for interest rates on government bonds or from a trade surplus the value of the currency goes up. This is a very basic exchange rate truism. In fact, it's at the foundation of how exchange rates work.

3 hours ago, candide said:

This rationale may be relevant for countries who have an industry, such as Italy, but I am not sure about Greece. The reason is that Greece doesn't produce much, so a devaluation would not make it more competitive. Agricultural prices depend on world prices and the country is already overwhelmed by tourists. It would also increase the debt burden.

As mentioned by tomacht8, the problem originates in more fundamental issues: getting people and institutions such as the Greek Church to actually pay taxes, having an efficient administration, an accurate land register, etc...

I appreciate what you say but the most fundamental thing is that Greece, after adopting the Euro, does not have full control of the currency it uses.

13 minutes ago, johnpetersen said:

This is untrue. You can only wring so much devaluation out of monetary policy. If a huge surplus of foreign currency flows into your economy, for whatever the reason, be it for interest rates on government bonds or from a trade surplus the value of the currency goes up. This is a very basic exchange rate truism. In fact, it's at the foundation of how exchange rates work.

Yes. We can see this in the THB at the moment.

7 hours ago, CNXexpat said:

I wonder why the UK is still in the EU. They could have say since years "we are out now, lick my ...". But they don´t. I wonder why. Perhaps because they want to have a deal with the hated EU? 

Points to note: The UK left the EU on the 

1 February 2020, 6:00 am GMT+7

 

 

2 hours ago, johnpetersen said:

The Euro has been pretty much of a disaster. It's not the same thing as the EU.

so why has the uk got so many eu citizens living in the uk?

3 hours ago, johnpetersen said:

This is untrue. You can only wring so much devaluation out of monetary policy. If a huge surplus of foreign currency flows into your economy, for whatever the reason, be it for interest rates on government bonds or from a trade surplus the value of the currency goes up. This is a very basic exchange rate truism. In fact, it's at the foundation of how exchange rates work.

Not quite with the Euro,its a manipulated currency,now to its great expense the US have taken measures to curtail this practice.  The Euro (German ) one is undervalued by a factor of 25%,that can be put right quite quickly by tariffs

All Germany does is dump its products,cheaply manufactured ones,its worse than China,but that is changing

9 hours ago, nauseus said:

I actually agree mostly with that.

 

Except:

Germany has prospered more since the Euro’s inception, which gave it an essentially devalued currency, thus giving German industry a competitive advantage.

 

Greece should never have been included in the euro area. Agree. But the EEC (EU) was also aware that Greece did not formally qualify for admission. In other words the EEC (EU) ignored their own rules; not for the first time and certainly not for the last. 

 

Agree -  the problem with the Euro is partly the north-south economic divide. Greece could not extricate itself from its economic mess because it could not shift interest rates, nor devalue its (Euro) currency. 

Now I have to ask. If you look at the UK - EU exchange rate trend, the British pound has dropped since 2004 (1 pound = 1.70 euros) to today 2020 (1 pound = 1.11 euros). The British pound has depreciated enormously over time.

 

And yet, over decades, germany has a great foreign trade surplus with the UK.

 

How do you explain your thesis then?

That the Euro is an essentially devalued currency, 

2 hours ago, izod10 said:

Not quite with the Euro,its a manipulated currency,now to its great expense the US have taken measures to curtail this practice.  The Euro (German ) one is undervalued by a factor of 25%,that can be put right quite quickly by tariffs

All Germany does is dump its products,cheaply manufactured ones,its worse than China,but that is changing

25%? Where come this number from?

Manipulated currency?

Please spare us the stupid Trump propaganda.

The last thing germany do, is to produce cheap products. It is exactly the opposite. high-end custom-made products. What a nonsense to equate China and Germany.

10 hours ago, nauseus said:

I actually agree mostly with that.

 

Except:

Germany has prospered more since the Euro’s inception, which gave it an essentially devalued currency, thus giving German industry a competitive advantage.

 

Greece should never have been included in the euro area. Agree. But the EEC (EU) was also aware that Greece did not formally qualify for admission. In other words the EEC (EU) ignored their own rules; not for the first time and certainly not for the last. 

 

Agree -  the problem with the Euro is partly the north-south economic divide. Greece could not extricate itself from its economic mess because it could not shift interest rates, nor devalue its (Euro) currency. 

That is just not true. Germany has prospered due to the hard and intelligent work of producing products that are better than anyone else's. People do not buy German products on price. They buy them on quality. So a devalued currency is not the key factor. In fact German growth rates were much better BEFORE the Euro arrived.

 

Germany does not need the EURO. The Euro is a charity project for Germany. A way to maintain peace at best. It is not an economic vehicle for European dominance. Germany's economy was doing much better before the Euro. 

 

Greece should never have been admitted, and indeed the ideological idioticy that we will be exposed to by some in the EU now that the common sense Brits have left is rather frightening. 

 

However Greece should not be seen as a victim of the EU, it was a victim of its own economic overspending and mismanagement and it benefitted greatly from the EU. Just like Poland and all the other economic handout recipients.