Are ATMs not ripping people off anymore like long time ago?

[lopburi3]

5 minutes ago, DogNo1 said:

I suppose foreigners whose banks charge foreign exchange fees may save money by paying in dollars

That was the original intent over a decade ago when first started - the local banks got to share the cash cow.  But then the foreign banks changed the wording to overseas usage or some such which does not involve currency exchange so they can still charge a percentage of the transaction.

[Eindhoven]

1 hour ago, lopburi3 said:

That was the original intent over a decade ago when first started - the local banks got to share the cash cow.  But then the foreign banks changed the wording to overseas usage or some such which does not involve currency exchange so they can still charge a percentage of the transaction.

 

It wasn't the banks, but Mastercard/VISA.

[dddave]

5 hours ago, Pib said:

A possible downside to AEON ATMs is they are limited to Bt20K per withdrawal unless something has changed....years back you could get Bt30K per withdrawal but that changed....got lowered to Bt20K unless something has changed as I mentioned.  So, if you needed more than Bt20K like say Bt30K and your card-issuing bank allowed that much per day/transaction then you would need to do two withdrawals at an AEON ATM resulting in the Bt150 times 2 = Bt300.  

 

But at some Thai bank ATMs like Krungsri and TMB they allow Bt30K per withdrawal and their ATM fee is Bt220.

Correct.  Aeon still B20,000 limit.

[Curmudgeonly59]

Years since I've used counter service inside a Thai bank and yesterday I suddenly remembered one of the reasons why. Cash advance on a VISA debit card. Passport, ok. Then she asks me to sign a photocopy of my passport and (on the same A4 sheet) copies of both sides of the debit card, including the three digit CVV code! When I politely queried the need for that, it was straight into the usual officialdom and over compensatory aggression. Always amusing to watch the lightning fast switch from smiles and servility to open hostility, even at such a banal level of transaction. I smiled, and set about obliterating the CVV code. But really, with the debit card number, personal details from my passport, signatures all over the place they're not going to have the CVV number into the bargain. Bangkok Bank, by the way.  

[Pib]

21 minutes ago, Curmudgeonly59 said:

Years since I've used counter service inside a Thai bank and yesterday I suddenly remembered one of the reasons why. Cash advance on a VISA debit card. Passport, ok. Then she asks me to sign a photocopy of my passport and (on the same A4 sheet) copies of both sides of the debit card, including the three digit CVV code! When I politely queried the need for that, it was straight into the usual officialdom and over compensatory aggression. Always amusing to watch the lightning fast switch from smiles and servility to open hostility, even at such a banal level of transaction. I smiled, and set about obliterating the CVV code. But really, with the debit card number, personal details from my passport, signatures all over the place they're not going to have the CVV number into the bargain. Bangkok Bank, by the way.  

Krungsri does the same....like you did always black out the CVV code on their copy. 

 

And then there are many folks who scratch off the CVV code on the card itself while logging down the CVV code somewhere in case they ever need to use it for a card-not-present online buy.  Doing it this way does improve security....just don't lose the log you made of the code in case it is needed for something. 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Pib

[drbeach]

1 hour ago, Curmudgeonly59 said:

Years since I've used counter service inside a Thai bank and yesterday I suddenly remembered one of the reasons why. Cash advance on a VISA debit card. Passport, ok. Then she asks me to sign a photocopy of my passport and (on the same A4 sheet) copies of both sides of the debit card, including the three digit CVV code! When I politely queried the need for that, it was straight into the usual officialdom and over compensatory aggression. Always amusing to watch the lightning fast switch from smiles and servility to open hostility, even at such a banal level of transaction. I smiled, and set about obliterating the CVV code. But really, with the debit card number, personal details from my passport, signatures all over the place they're not going to have the CVV number into the bargain. Bangkok Bank, by the way.  

Strange...when I make such queries I receive an appropriate answer and that's that. I've never been given "attitude" but when it comes to matters like the one you describe, I just let them do what they need to do. If I was paranoid about bank staff getting access to my details, I probably wouldn't even have the courage to open a bank account in the first place.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 hours ago, DogNo1 said:

The Central stores in Bangkok now use new SCB credit card charging terminals.  They give the clerk the option of charging you in Thai Baht or in US Dollars at the SCB exchange rate. I have a US credit card with no foreign exchange fee so I always want to be charged in Thai Baht.  I was recently charged in USD and didn't catch it until I got home.  Now I always tell the checker that I want to pay in THB.   I suppose foreigners whose banks charge foreign exchange fees may save money by paying in dollars but the exchange fee charged by SCB is over two baht per dollar.  Is this new system a benefit for some people or just a ripoff for the unwary?

 

What was the reported margin (skim) on the exchange rate you got when they rang your transaction in USD?

 

IMHO, it's a system to both benefit the merchant and the Thai bank, and rip off the unwary.

 

[Jeffrey346]

18 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Remember the exchange rate using Transferwise is better than that using a card - and there is no atm fee or foreign usage fee involved.  For 20k today Transferwise would cost US $653 (inc fees)

31.0750 Transferwise exchange rate

30.970031 Visa exchange rate

I use Western Union as I usually get the funds the same or next day. Today's WU rate is 30.9925 same as the Visa rate.

[Jeffrey346]

11 hours ago, Pib said:

Krungsri does the same....like you did always black out the CVV code on their copy. 

 

And then there are many folks who scratch off the CVV code on the card itself while logging down the CVV code somewhere in case they ever need to use it for a card-not-present online buy.  Doing it this way does improve security....just don't lose the log you made of the code in case it is needed for something. 

I started scratching off my CVV code years ago after my card was copied by a Thai restaurant in Bkk and $10,000 charged in Australia 

I take a photo of the back of the card to record my CVV number. If I lose my phone and they were able to get passed the security, all they can see is the code and not any account numbers.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Jeffrey346

[ChakaKhan]

I dress nice and go into my bank and ask them using my debit card...no fee

 

Been told just use the ATM,,I say I need MORE than the atm gives me....nicely

 

They do the withdrawal, I save the fee and put it back in the bank using the ATM...

 

I do have a thai bank acct tho..that would help

[theonetrueaussie]

20 hours ago, Sojuncoke said:

 

Ok either way I always saw that using ATM was a lot more expensive a few years back but now its actually cheaper than using transferwise. So then why would anyone use transferwise? 

LOL why would anyone use transferwise....Well the transferwise fee is basically the same as the fee to use the ATM...and most bank cards charge 3% to withdrawl money from overseas atm's so you are basically saving $30-33 for every $1000 you take out by using transferwise...THAT IS WHY!

[Oxx]

21 hours ago, Sojuncoke said:

Ok either way I always saw that using ATM was a lot more expensive a few years back but now its actually cheaper than using transferwise. So then why would anyone use transferwise? 

 

The current USD/THB rates are:  VISA 31.060031, Transferwise 31.1200.

 

If you send $100, VISA will give you 2,906 baht after bank fees (200 baht), whilst Transferwise will give you 2,984.41 after fees ($4.10).  Transferwise is fractionally better.  Of course, if your bank charges for foreign transactions, then Transferwise wins hands down.

[Oxx]

8 minutes ago, theonetrueaussie said:

so you are basically saving $30-33 for every $1000 you take out by using transferwise...THAT IS WHY!

 

It's worse than that.  There's a limit on how much you can withdraw from an ATM, so you'd be paying multiple 200 baht fees to make such a withdrawal.

[Pib]

2 hours ago, Jeffrey346 said:

I use Western Union as I usually get the funds the same or next day. Today's WU rate is 30.9925 same as the Visa rate.

Seems WU is a better deal than Transferwise purely based on above snapshot.  But it appears above snapshot is from the WU U.S. "public" webpage vs a person's logged-in account.  Public webpages often leave out important details or only show an "indicative" exchange rate versus what a person really gets once opening an account.  And then sometimes you find out there are "got-yous" or other fees, etc. 

 

Wonder if you could give more details and examples from some of your actual transfers to your Thai bank to included how you funded the transfer such as via ACH, etc.  Any receiving fees on the Thailand end?  If using ACH are there limits....what process WU used to validate ACH funding, etc.   Also, what is the acct registration/validation process like for a WU U.S. online acct.  

 

Would just appreciate some more details as on the surface it appears to be a better deal than Transferwise....but if it was better deal seems it would be widely known...lots of people talking about it.   

 

P.S. I have a WU "Thailand" online acct but it's for transferring funds out of Thailand.  I don't have a WU U.S. online acct.

 

Edited July 4, 2020 by Pib

[4MyEgo]

21 hours ago, Sojuncoke said:

 

Ok either way I always saw that using ATM was a lot more expensive a few years back but now its actually cheaper than using transferwise. So then why would anyone use transferwise? 

I have an SCB account which I transfer a lump sum of money to once a year to survive on, the fee Transferwise charges is miniscule compared to others and the rate is the best I can usually get.

 

Will never pay ATM fees for the pleasure of using them, remember when the banks first introduced them, they were free and it was for our convenience, later after rounding up the herds worldwide they started charging people, and people accept it, pretty clever, but they won't screw me over, as for the annual bank fee of 200-300 to have the account, well chicken feed really. 

[Surasak]

22 hours ago, Eindhoven said:

ATM has nothing to do with it. ATM has no effect on the exchange rate you receive(unless you choose the option of letting them convert for you).

ATM makes one charge of 200 to 220 baht). The rest is charged by your bank.

 

For those whose bank does not charge, they pay only the ATM fee. Some people avoid even the ATM fee by taking a cash advance over a bank counter.

Its not possible to take a cash advance over the counter in some banks. Some can't do it because they don't have the correct card reader, and some banks just refuse with no reason. 

[Max69xl]

22 hours ago, Sojuncoke said:

 

Ok either way I always saw that using ATM was a lot more expensive a few years back but now its actually cheaper than using transferwise. So then why would anyone use transferwise? 

You don't have a clue what you're talking about. It was never more expensive using an ATM years ago. It was cheaper because thai banks never charged you any fees when using a foreign card. The fees are at the moment 200-220 baht per withdrawal. On top of that you normally pay a fee to your bank at home. When withdrawing money you get the so called TT Buy rate, unless you say Yes to the question on the screen about a proposed exchange rate,then you get an ever lower rate. When using TransferWise you get the so called Mid-market rate which is a better rate, and the fee is lower than the combined fees you pay to the sending bank and the receiving bank. But it seems you don't have a Thai bank account, otherwise you wouldn't be using a foreign card. 

[NoshowJones]

21 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The only way you'll get a DCC rate from an ATM is if the ATM asks you if you want the withdrawal denominated/shown in the amount of your bank's cards home currency (instead of Thai baht), and you agree to that....

 

What you see on the ATM screen never says anything about the term DCC or the fact that they're offering you a pi*ss poor exchange rate. It just asks if you want to see the amount shown in your home country/bank card currency, and too many people unknowingly click YES to that.

 

The DCC offer at some Thai banking company ATMs seems to be more common with MC logo cards, and not so much with VISA logo cards. 

 

Here's an example of a DCC offer I saw, and declined, when making a store purchase in BKK recently.  5.9% "commission" or "margin" to have my receipt show me what the price would be in USD vs Thai baht.

 

 

 

 

I went to a Kasikorn ATM not long ago, and their rate was 37 Baht to the British Pound, the rate that morning on the XE currency converter was about 40. 10 to the British Pound. Obviously I went to Transferwise.

[NoshowJones]

20 hours ago, hello55060 said:

I had a bad experience in Powerbuy, I had purchased about 50000 THB worth of stuff used a foreign card to pay and the sales cashier girl didn't ask me if I want to pay in THB or my home country money and automatically does the DCC. Ended up costing me like 2000thb extra, as my card has 0% fees when paying in foreign currency.  Anyway I was peed and complained immediate when I saw the receipt and the girl just lied instead of admitting her screw up and said there wasn't an option to pay in THB it just did it automatically. Amazing how when I've bought in 100s of other shops in Thailand they've always asked me what currency I want to pay in and even before when I used powerbuy I was offered the choice.

Needless to say I was seething for the next few hours after for losing 2000 thb due to some idiot employee and their incompetence.

You should have asked to see the person in charge, and not moved until you got it sorted out. I got done out of something at AIS a few years ago, asked to see the boss, some more senior person came to see me, still no satisfaction, I then said I will not move until this is sorted out, I waited about 5 mins, and was then taken behind the counter and get it sorted out immediately, then offered a cup of coffee.

Always stand your ground if you know you are 100% right.

[Ireland32]

23 hours ago, dddave said:

Look for AEON ATM's, B150 international ATM withdrawal charge. They are usually close to Max Value supermarkets or mini-markets.  Also in some shopping malls.

Remember when they were free about 5 years ago 

[Pib]

2 minutes ago, Ireland32 said:

Remember when they were free about 5 years ago 

Yea....they started charging a fee in early 2014....almost 6.5 years ago....time sure flies.

 

 

[Max69xl]

6 minutes ago, Ireland32 said:

Remember when they were free about 5 years ago 

You haven't thought about stop using a foreign card? 

[rwill]

22 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Remember the exchange rate using Transferwise is better than that using a card - and there is no atm fee or foreign usage fee involved.  For 20k today Transferwise would cost US $653 (inc fees)

31.0750 Transferwise exchange rate

30.970031 Visa exchange rate

Except Transferwise takes out a fee before calculating that rate.  So your actual rate with them is lower.  For example I just looked now to send $1,000 has a fee of $12.50 and you receive Baht 30,738.78.  That actually works out to ~30.74 baht not the 31.12 they quote.

 

I can get money for free using my Schwab debit card at an ATM as they rebate all the fees you are charged. 

[dabhand]

4 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

You should have asked to see the person in charge, and not moved until you got it sorted out. I got done out of something at AIS a few years ago, asked to see the boss, some more senior person came to see me, still no satisfaction, I then said I will not move until this is sorted out, I waited about 5 mins, and was then taken behind the counter and get it sorted out immediately, then offered a cup of coffee.

Always stand your ground if you know you are 100% right.

Used to happen a lot at the Tesco Lotus in  S Pattaya. This was a few years back and I always insisted on the Thb charge, not the home currency, especially where I was not given the choice upfront. It was either sorted by the cashier or by the supervisor. Once or twice they had to cancel and rescan all the groceries. Not so good for anyone behind me in the queue!!

Anyway, they must have eventually got tired of all the complaints (not just from me, I'm sure) and the instances eventually stopped. Nice earner for the business while it lasted.

[spiekerjozef]

Of course they do, like all banks do across the world.

[Max69xl]

1 minute ago, rwill said:

Except Transferwise takes out a fee before calculating that rate.  So your actual rate with them is lower.  For example I just looked now to send $1,000 has a fee of $12.50 and you receive Baht 30,738.78.  That actually works out to ~30.74 baht not the 31.12 they quote.

 

I can get money for free using my Schwab debit card at an ATM as they rebate all the fees you are charged. 

The rate at TW is always the Mid-market rate and has nothing to do with their fees. The fee will increase with a higher amount, but the rate will NEVER change. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

31 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

The rate at TW is always the Mid-market rate and has nothing to do with their fees. The fee will increase with a higher amount, but the rate will NEVER change. 

 

The exchange rate along is only part of the story.

 

What you ultimately receive, and the real exchange rate, is what you get AFTER the fees are assessed and they apply their exchange rate.

 

You can't focus solely on the exchange rate and ignore the fees they're charging for each transaction.

 

Start with the money you send to TFW or they debit from you, then apply the amount of baht you receive in the end, divide the one into the other, and that's your real net exchange rate for the transaction.

 

Edited July 4, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[jirathama]

22 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

Best case for a VISA Euro withdraw.

Select 30000 Baht.

Be debited 30220 Thai Baht = 869.60 Euro assuming no fee by your bank!.

 

Transferwise

869 Euro gives you 30119.71 Baht for cheap transfer option.

 

So even with best case ATM transaction, TW will still give a bit more.

More realistic are added fees of 1.5% to 3% by the foreign banks.

 

https://www.visa.co.uk/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html

https://transferwise.com/

I agree KhunBENQ..but it also depends on the amount you need. I braught 60.000,--€ in the country, through Transfer Wise. The fee was so high, that i would have gotten the same Baht amount if I would have used my european Visa Creditcard with no foreign transaction fee, so only the 220Bht ATM fee on 30.000,--Bht withdrawal.

[jirathama]

4 hours ago, ChakaKhan said:

I dress nice and go into my bank and ask them using my debit card...no fee

 

Been told just use the ATM,,I say I need MORE than the atm gives me....nicely

 

They do the withdrawal, I save the fee and put it back in the bank using the ATM...

 

I do have a thai bank acct tho..that would help

Unfortunately not all banks issueing  credit cards do it for free. They would charge me 3% if i use the Teller, using ATM is free.

[Max69xl]

12 minutes ago, jirathama said:

I agree KhunBENQ..but it also depends on the amount you need. I braught 60.000,--€ in the country, through Transfer Wise. The fee was so high, that i would have gotten the same Baht amount if I would have used my european Visa Creditcard with no foreign transaction fee, so only the 220Bht ATM fee on 30.000,--Bht withdrawal.

Everybody doesn't send Euro using TW. Sending other currencies can cost much less when using TW instead of using an ATM or a standard swift transfer. The better Mid-market rate compared to the TT buy rate and a lower total fee normally cancels out the bank fees if you pay fees in both ends. TW is not designed to send larger amounts, but works perfectly imo when we're talking about monthly transfers. And to be honest, I'm fed up with paying bank fees, especially receiving fees to Thai banks,so I prefer paying a fee to TW and getting the money next day 2pm when using the 'Low cost transfer' option. When the rate also is guaranteed, that's an extra plus.