Thailand travel bubble in chaos: Plans for international flights between participating countries put off indefinitely

[ChouDoufu]

19 minutes ago, Berti said:

Don't they have to? Social score system.

Any freedom loving person is horrified by this system. Nobody understands why the Chinese follow their oppressors so passionately under the guise of nationalism.

 

still in beta testing i believe, only functional in certain localities.  it's supposed to go nationwide sometime this year, maybe.  scary!  but i wonder if it could be compared to our western experian credit score merged with the social media cancel culture?  experiean says you can't get a loan, and the facebook mob can get you fired, deplatformed, and unpersoned.

 

you misunderstand the chinese.  they mostly ignore the laws unless forced to comply.  that's why you see so many videos of chengguan (sorta like municipal police auxiliary) impounding street vendor carts and clearing sidewalks.  for the big stuff, they don't protest, as there as so many still around who survived the cultural revolution.  they mostly prefer a little minor oppression to major upheaval and chaos.

[Blumpie]

6 minutes ago, fraggleRock said:

Well they will need to keep Thailand closed forever, no vaccine will be developed ... dam they still have no vaccine for SARS..  Your comment suggests you support the entire collapse of the planet Earth as we know it with the death of millions due to fear mongering ...How irresponsible you are ... please think before you decide to make such rash statements. ... 

Did you forget to take your optimism pill today?  

[JCP108]

2 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

still in beta testing i believe, only functional in certain localities.  it's supposed to go nationwide sometime this year, maybe.  scary!  but i wonder if it could be compared to our western experian credit score merged with the social media cancel culture?  experiean says you can't get a loan, and the facebook mob can get you fired, deplatformed, and unpersoned.

 

you misunderstand the chinese.  they mostly ignore the laws unless forced to comply.  that's why you see so many videos of chengguan (sorta like municipal police auxiliary) impounding street vendor carts and clearing sidewalks.  for the big stuff, they don't protest, as there as so many still around who survived the cultural revolution.  they mostly prefer a little minor oppression to major upheaval and chaos.

If they don't protest the big stuff, do they really only get minor oppression?

[herwin1234]

6 hours ago, ezzra said:

The reason why China was on the list is that Thailand would Not Dare not to include China in, and what? say no to the really big boss to the north?...

i still dont get it. Whats with the constant China bashing? China has covid under control (unlike the usa). And China is a neighbour of Thailand, with long stable good relations, and lets not forget the many Chinese immigrants who integrated and helped Thailand grow economically (oh what a difference with the cynical farang immigrants..) 

 

Its only natural and fair and common sense thatChina would be included.

 

The current anti China sentiments are basically a war drumbeat from global bully nr 1 usa who cant handle competition from China instead tries to warmonger other western countries in an unfounded Anti China sentiment.

Pathetic. 

[norfolkc]

3 hours ago, Mises said:

Those countries that closed their borders such as Australia, New Zealand and Thailand that rely on tourism for a significant part of their economy are either going to have to open up and let COVID 19 do its worst, which is not very much for 99.9% of people, or remain closed for years and kiss goodbye to tourism, airports, airlines, hotels etc.

In my opinion you are 100% correct we are going to have to learn to live with this until  a vaccine is found open the doors and lets get on with it 

[Blumpie]

1 minute ago, herwin1234 said:

i still dont get it. Whats with the constant China bashing?

There's a word for it.  

[Reigntax]

7 hours ago, steven100 said:

i have to agree with you ... it's just going from bad to worse  !!

bad news after really bad news followed by really really bad news !!!  

I'm getting sick of this.  It's just ongoing .....  

Yes. 2014 was a bad year and its just got progressively worse

[Patts]

1 hour ago, GeniusFarang said:

OH NO! Can’t have a “Flu” now! Gotta depress the economy, skyrocket your unemployment and suicides because apparently countries who don’t even have their HIV numbers down are more concerned of a virus with the same or less mortality of a FLU. My God the people that buy into all this are morons. 

You need to chance your username because you are no genius.

 

Flu mortality is on average 0.01% Corona virus Mortality varies depending on geographical location but on average is considered to be in the region of 3.5% (although it could be lower). Many of those who serve have long term complications including Renal failure and/or diabetes. Hardly comparable to seasonal flu!

[JCP108]

10 minutes ago, herwin1234 said:

i still dont get it. Whats with the constant China bashing? China has covid under control (unlike the usa). And China is a neighbour of Thailand, with long stable good relations, and lets not forget the many Chinese immigrants who integrated and helped Thailand grow economically (oh what a difference with the cynical farang immigrants..) 

 

Its only natural and fair and common sense thatChina would be included.

 

The current anti China sentiments are basically a war drumbeat from global bully nr 1 usa who cant handle competition from China instead tries to warmonger other western countries in an unfounded Anti China sentiment.

Pathetic. 

Um, I think you and Traubert are the only ones in here who seem to trust China's reports and handling of the pandemic. Even Steven100 in his fever of constant glowing praise for the PM seems skeptical that allowing the Chinese in is a good idea. 

Edited July 8, 2020 by JCP108

[jojothai]

2 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

what requirements are ludicrous, other than 14-day quarantines?  if we're talking covid19 test and 100k insurance, those are just minor inconveniences.  limited travel zones are also not really important for chinese tourists.

 

You obviously didn't read any of the details and posts on the travel bubble proposals.

No point in wasting my time telling you. Go look for yourself.

 

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by jojothai
Added link

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, morrobay said:

If the infections are increasing but morbidly is not then the virus is evolving for it's own survival, see: The D614G mutation of SARS-Co-2 Spike Protein. The replacement of aspartic acid by glycine at amino acid position 614 on the spike protein enables the virus to bind more easily to the host receptor, ACE2 . (via protein salt bridge)

 

From what I've read on that, the mutation you're talking about supposedly is one that allows the virus to more rapidly, efficiently spread through the cells in the host body. But supposedly, that characteristic doesn't necessarily make the virus itself more contagious on a person to person basis. Again, I think the study of that issue remains an evolving subject.

 

[vermin on arrival]

16 minutes ago, Patts said:

You need to chance your username because you are no genius.

 

Flu mortality is on average 0.01% Corona virus Mortality varies depending on geographical location but on average is considered to be in the region of 3.5% (although it could be lower). Many of those who serve have long term complications including Renal failure and/or diabetes. Hardly comparable to seasonal flu!

Most credible sources are saying the ifr is much less than 3.5% cfr of confirmed cases. The ifr is in the range of .026% to 1.4% although some believe it is lower. Certainly people with serious cases can have more serious long term complications.

[Berti]

48 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

 a little minor oppression

You are scary.

 

By the way I know China for 30 years traveling there and I know most don't care (at least they don't tell a foreigner). They are so used to oppression they even believe it is a superior system.

[Jumbo1968]

I have lived in Pattaya 5/6 years so a relative newby, currently stuck in the U.K., I have witnessed the decline in the number of farangs who come year on year to Pattaya  Some only come for 4 weeks now Not a couple of months some not at all so unless the Thai Government relax the conditions for entering there will be loads of tumbleweeds rolling down the sois in many places not just Pattaya. I would have thought the brewing industry/food producers would be bringing pressure on the government to relax the current rules as it must be crippling their sales ?

[CygnusX1]

4 hours ago, Mises said:

Those countries that closed their borders such as Australia, New Zealand and Thailand that rely on tourism for a significant part of their economy are either going to have to open up and let COVID 19 do its worst, which is not very much for 99.9% of people, or remain closed for years and kiss goodbye to tourism, airports, airlines, hotels etc.

Before the China virus, Australia used to lose more revenue from Australians travelling overseas than it gained from foreigners holidaying in Australia. Opposite of Thailand. So Australian economy benefits substantially for every year that it keeps its borders closed. Very unfortunate for people such as myself who are now imprisoned in Australia.

[joecoolfrog]

55 minutes ago, Blumpie said:

There's a word for it.  

Hong Kong ?

[sammieuk1]

Bubbles faded and died then sure to be some general or other to blow some more ????

[Expat Tom]

Maybe the reality of no tourists will sink in? Do you think that maybe the wonderfully intelligent Thai authorities might consider treating the long term expats here now a little better now and incentivizing us to spend more here? 

[ChouDoufu]

41 minutes ago, jojothai said:

You obviously didn't read any of the details and posts on the travel bubble proposals.

No point in wasting my time telling you. Go look for yourself.

 

 

dude, are you seriously?  this is list of countries and some d(r)aft proposals, followed by 6 pages of barstool gossip?  and jinkies!  that article was from one week ago, which is enough time for the government to do multiple 180's.

 

List of ‘travel bubble’ countries finalised today ahead of Aug reopening

https://www.nationthailand.com/news/30390671

 

and really, if the thai and chinese governments decide to do this, they'll simply do it, regardless of d(r)aft proposals or forum debates.

[Berti]

2 minutes ago, Expat Tom said:

Maybe the reality of no tourists will sink in? Do you think that maybe the wonderfully intelligent Thai authorities might consider treating the long term expats here now a little better now and incentivizing us to spend more here? 

Every person capable of logical thinking would do so. But don't bet on it with this government.

[Patts]

35 minutes ago, vermin on arrival said:

Most credible sources are saying the ifr is much less than 3.5% cfr of confirmed cases. The ifr is in the range of .026% to 1.4% although some believe it is lower. Certainly people with serious cases can have more serious long term complications.

Who are these "most credible sources"? I have heard that it could be lower then 3.5% with some saying as low as 1% but just look at the Mortality rate vs confirmed cases in UK, France, Spain, Belgium, Italy, all have a higher then 10% mortality rate.

 

Before you say not everyone is tested, the same is also true of Flu, most people stay at home for a week or two and never see a doctor. There is no doubt that the mortality rate of Covid19 is many factors higher than that of seasonal flu. 

[GeniusFarang]

2 hours ago, Game Program said:

The thing that really makes this worse is that the political nonsense especially in the US, the fake news, is taken seriously by people outside the US and is likely a major driving factor.

 

Just really <deleted> that corrupt politician's political agendas are making it so that I can't get married, and may actually ruin my relationship and basically like ruin my life, just because some <deleted> want to use this <deleted> to gain power. I'm specifically talking about the US here, so. Just to clarify.

 

But thankfully there's hope because I pretty much think after the November election all this will likely blow over, at least in the US. and then maybe misinformation won't be keeping me from being able to get married.

You nailed it. The other countries (especially the poor and uneducated ones) look to the US for leadership. Notice how no countries banned travel until after the US did. Other countries look to the American media and actually believe it and take it seriously - which is sad because unless you really follow politics or are from the US then you know it’s all BS propaganda. 

[Spock]

9 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Was never feasible. Do a bubble with Melbourne. Better idea

Wish I wasn't in Melbourne now. ????

[PumpkinEater]

Why extend amnesty?

Anybody that wants to go to their country can jump on the daily Qatar flights through Doha and connect to their country...

Amnesty is BS

[DrJack54]

16 minutes ago, Spock said:

Wish I wasn't in Melbourne now. ????

Hearing you brother. My 2 son's had just returned to work only 2 weeks ago. Now again in lockdown for SIX WEEKS. 

I can feel the strain in their voice. 

Hope you can work. 

People will start to crack.

[Curmudgeon1]

9 hours ago, jojothai said:

They have probably found that the other countries were not going to accept the ludicrous conditions that were going to be imposed for the bubble trips. Now there has to be an excuse.

If you look at the worldometers. There has not been any significant rise in cases in China or South Korea, Japan has increased a bit in the last week.

Really? 

[Pancho]

Fact:

Thailand will be a victim of itself.

In order of importance for the average world citizens:

1)clean dog poop from shoes 

2) spend money I don’t have, to go to a country full of draconian rules, where I will have no freedom, be overcharged for everything, being tested for an illness that is quickly becoming a world class lie, put into quarantine from a false positive shoddy test, and drained of the illegal 100,000.00 usd insurance policy I was forced to buy.

The greed is surpassed only by the self serving arrogance of the authorities.

Have a nice day.

[warcy]

We can hear more suicide cases in the next few months. This government is really too scared of taking risks.

 

UK, USA and other countries have much higher cases and they are opening up the economy but not Thailand?

 

[vermin on arrival]

1 hour ago, Patts said:

Who are these "most credible sources"? I have heard that it could be lower then 3.5% with some saying as low as 1% but just look at the Mortality rate vs confirmed cases in UK, France, Spain, Belgium, Italy, all have a higher then 10% mortality rate.

 

Before you say not everyone is tested, the same is also true of Flu, most people stay at home for a week or two and never see a doctor. There is no doubt that the mortality rate of Covid19 is many factors higher than that of seasonal flu. 

With that 10% you are going with the closed case mortality rates based on confirmed cases which are not indicative of the true mortality and grossly exaggerate the fatality rate when they were only getting the serious cases at the hospital for confirmed tests. Yes it is higher than the flu, but not nearly at the rate you are suggesting. There are some virologists and epidemiologists who do compare it to a severe season of the flu.

 

The numbers for mortality you are quoting are just way off the charts for what people think the ifr truly is. Search for results on ifr and you will see they are mostly below 1% and in some cases seriously below 1%. The WHOs initial findings based on confirmed cases and no asymptotic cases were seriously off on the true mortality rate.

 

Let's take the more moderate one from antibody testing from John Hopkins that puts it between .5% and 1%. I could post many more studies.

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/05/28/863944333/antibody-tests-point-to-lower-death-rate-for-the-coronavirus-than-first-thought

 

The cdc's website puts the most optimistic ifr at .2 or .26 I believe, but it thinks it is most probably at .4. Harvard University epidemiologist Marc Lipsitch thinks it is likely lying somewhere between 0.2%-1.5%. Most likely somewhere in the middle.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/05/fact-check-cdc-estimates-covid-19-death-rate-0-26/5269331002/

 

Would you think John Hopkins, US CDC and Harvard are credible?

 

*also I meant .26-1.4% in my original post and remember seasonal flu's mortality rate is .1%

Edited July 8, 2020 by vermin on arrival
error in numbers on original post

[purcho]

8 hours ago, uhuh said:

For  Melbounians, toilet paper seems to be the most important thing in life.

So you can guess what they do all day long

I think the toilet paper is used by Melbounians to plug all of their orifices so they dont have to listen to their halfwitted dillusional Premier, Comrade Dan. ....yeah thats him ....the one that continually says that Melbourne doesn"t have a gang problem and that it is one of the worlds most liveable cities.