UK: Impending Wealth Tax

[Oxx]

I understand that quite a few expats have not told their UK brokers that they are now no longer UK resident.  Now that it looks likely that the UK government is going to help itself to some of their wealth through a wealth tax, what are they planning on doing? Admit that they are non-resident to avoid the tax, but risk that their account will be closed? Keep schtum and pay the tax? Close their UK accounts and move offshore?

 

From a personal point of view, anyone know what happens if you tell Interactive Investor that you're now non-resident?

[Rookiescot]

With a right wing government in power?

No chance of a wealth tax. 

They will increase VAT and national insurance contributions. 

[ukrules]

1 hour ago, Oxx said:

Admit that they are non-resident to avoid the tax, but risk that their account will be closed?

It's worth keeping a credit card and/or unsecured personal loan ongoing with a bank for a couple of reasons :

 

1 - You maintain a credit rating

2 - They may not be so quick to close your account if you're using credit facilities and have a perfect record of making payments.

 

[wordchild]

Obviously all of this "wealth tax" talk is just speculation, at this stage. 

However, given the amounts the UK Gov is currently spending, there is likely to be the need for higher levels of taxation at some point in the future, and, i would suggest this will be something that lasts for years rather than be a "one OFF" hit.

The good news is that everyone has had fair warning, and those expats who need to do something have the time to do it. 

Frankly, to state the obvious, any expat, who has assets and wealth in the UK needs to think through their options.

It is not that complicated.

Shares/bonds and cash are easy to move offshore (within certain constraints) ,as  for property, its pretty much impossible. 

Join the dots!!

Edited July 10, 2020 by wordchild

[Leaver]

  Let's hope access to the NHS is not on the chopping block for those who decide to zig or zag.  

[wordchild]

32 minutes ago, Leaver said:

  Let's hope access to the NHS is not on the chopping block for those who decide to zig or zag.  

My own personal view, but the U.K NHS has been really exposed by this crisis.

The  Brits seem to love it, but it’s performance, in terms of protecting the British People,  seems to have been woeful.

I would not have access to the NHS, at least for free, but that worries me not one jot!

its treated as a precious child, with a degree of respect that, on the evidence, it just does not deserve. 

Edited July 10, 2020 by wordchild

[3NUMBAS]

haha absolutley no chance of this happening .labour party would need to be in power and very little chance of this happening in the next 50 years

[Leaver]

46 minutes ago, wordchild said:

My own personal view, but the U.K NHS has been really exposed by this crisis.

The  Brits seem to love it, but it’s performance, in terms of protecting the British People,  seems to have been woeful.

I would not have access to the NHS, at least for free, but that worries me not one jot!

its treated as a precious child, with a degree of respect that, on the evidence, it just does not deserve. 

I have insurance, but the NHS is a fall back plan for many.  If access to the NHS is denied to those who either physically move offshore, or move their wealth offshore, or both, than that can be a game changer for many.  

 

Of course, I am talking about when the virus crisis has finished and things return to normal, not under the present circumstances.

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by Leaver

[wordchild]

17 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I have insurance, but the NHS is a fall back plan for many.  If access to the NHS is denied to those who either physically move offshore, or move they wealth offshore, or both, than that can be a game changer for many.  

 

Of course, I am talking about when the virus crisis has finished and things return to normal, not under the present circumstances.

Just my opinion, but, if you are an expat , living in Thailand, and you still feel that you might need the UK NHS as a fallback, then, frankly you may have made the wrong decision In moving here in the first place.

From my experience, there are many “fake” expats  who live here: ie in various ways, they have not fully cut the umbilical chord with their homeland.

until you do that , and adjust your lifestyle and expectations to that fact, you have not really moved your home. You are just on an extended holiday.

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by wordchild

[VBF]

43 minutes ago, wordchild said:

My own personal view, but the U.K NHS has been really exposed by this crisis.

The  Brits seem to love it, but it’s performance, in terms of protecting the British People,  seems to have been woeful.

I would not have access to the NHS, at least for free, but that worries me not one jot!

its treated as a precious child, with a degree of respect that, on the evidence, it just does not deserve. 

Having been treated by the NHS for a potentially life-threatening event in the last year, I disagree. It depends a lot on a "post-code lottery": if you live in an area with a good, well-run Trust, the treatment is superb - mine was and I won't hear a word against them.

But, if you live in a poorer area where the Trust isn't so fortunate, your experience can be very different.

 

Covid could have stretched the NHS beyond breaking point  it didn't....partly due to luck and partly to a "pre-emptive" strike of lockdown.

The Nightingale Hospitals were an example of "Damned if we do and Damned if we don't"

UK could have become Italy or Wuhan...... it didn't.

Edited July 10, 2020 by VBF

[wordchild]

12 minutes ago, VBF said:

Having been treated by the NHS for a potentially life-threatening event in the last year, I disagree. It depends a lot on a "post-code lottery": if you live in an area with a good, well-run Trust, the treatment is superb - mine was and I won't hear a word against them.

But, if you live in a poorer area where the Trust isn't so fortunate, your experience can be very different.

 

Covid could have stretched the NHS beyond breaking point  it didn't....partly due to luck and partly to a "pre-emptive" strike of lockdown.

The Nightingale Hospitals were an example of "Damned if we do and Damned if we don't"

UK could have become Italy or Wuhan...... it didn't.

It wasn’t Italy and it wasn’t Wuhan, I give you that, it was worse than both, (depending how you measure) and still not done.

Edited July 10, 2020 by wordchild

[Leaver]

22 minutes ago, wordchild said:

Just my opinion, but, if you are an expat , living in Thailand, and you still feel that you might need the UK NHS as a fallback, then, frankly you may have made the wrong decision In moving here in the first place.

 

I was not talking about myself.  I was talking in general.  Like I said, I have insurance.  

 

I know one expat who went home because he had cancer, and another guy who had a stroke, which caused paralysis.  Both had a comfortable lifestyle here, but both needed a long term medical treatment plan, which I gather, even significant retirement savings may not have covered in Thailand. 

 

Not to mention, the benefit of being surrounded by family in such times.

 

Why would one possibly spend their life savings for long term treatment in Thailand for such illnesses, which may be substandard and overpriced, when they can return to the NHS?

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by Leaver

[VBF]

5 minutes ago, wordchild said:

It wasn’t Italy and it wasn’t Wuhan, I give you that, it was worse than both, (depending how you measure) and still not done.

How do you work that out?

UK didn't have people dying on hospital floors and there were VERY few instances of hospital wards having to shut down entirely.

[Leaver]

14 minutes ago, wordchild said:

It wasn’t Italy and it wasn’t Wuhan, I give you that, it was worse than both, (depending how you measure) and still not done.

Well, how do you measure, in order to make such a comment?

[wordchild]

19 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I was not talking about myself.  I was talking in general.  Like I said, I have insurance.  

 

I know one expat who went home because he had cancer, and another guy who had a stroke, which caused paralysis.  Both had a comfortable lifestyle here, but both needed a long term medical treatment plan, which I gather, even significant retirement savings may not have covered in Thailand. 

 

Not to mention, the benefit of being surrounded by family in such times.

 

Why would one possibly spend their life savings for long term treatment in Thailand for such illnesses, which may be substandard and overpriced, when they can return to the NHS?

 

Well you kind of made my point for me, even we are getting off the OP topic.
If you would need to return to the U.K., in the circumstances you described,  both highly possible  end of life situations, then why on earth move  to Thailand ,in the first place, in the later years of ones life?

Edited July 10, 2020 by wordchild

[Leaver]

2 minutes ago, wordchild said:

Well you kind of made my point for me, even we are getting off the OP topic.
If you would need to return to the U.K., in the circumstances you described,  both highly likely end of life situations, then why on earth move  to Thailand ,in the first place, in the later years of ones life.

It's not off topic.  Possible changes may involve access to the NHS.

 

I have not made your point.  You should read my post again.  

 

The guy with cancer was diagnosed with it in Thailand.  He was an expat here.  The other guy who had a stroke, had the stroke in Thailand.  He was also an expat here.  They were both retired here, and both living a comfortable lifestyle here. 

 

Both are still alive, both are still receiving treatment in the UK, and both should live for some years to come, hopefully.  I am in somewhat regular contact with both of them, but have not ask if they have any intention of returning to Thailand. 

 

They may have had the savings to cover a long term treatment plan here, but why pay higher prices for possibly less, when you can return home and be treated for free, with such treatment possibly of a higher standard? 

 

I really don't see the point you are trying to make.   

[topt]

15 hours ago, wordchild said:

then why on earth move  to Thailand ,in the first place, in the later years of ones life?

I normally have a great deal of respect for your posts but this seems like a deflection from @Leaver 's example.

He did not state, and you cannot know, how long they have lived in Thailand prior to the medical issues and what ties they may or may not have kept to the UK. 

His example, and reasons given, actually seem quite sensible to me however you appear to have a definition of an "expat" which not everybody may necessarily agree with.

 

There are myriad reasons why people may choose to move to Thailand. Cutting the umbilical cord to some may be the same as burning bridges to others and with so many different circumstances who is to say which is right.  

[transam]

16 hours ago, wordchild said:

My own personal view, but the U.K NHS has been really exposed by this crisis.

The  Brits seem to love it, but it’s performance, in terms of protecting the British People,  seems to have been woeful.

I would not have access to the NHS, at least for free, but that worries me not one jot!

its treated as a precious child, with a degree of respect that, on the evidence, it just does not deserve. 

And other countries haven't been exposed......?

The NHS is a free service for its populace.....

Why doesn't it worry you one jot...?

[andy72]

16 hours ago, wordchild said:

My own personal view, but the U.K NHS has been really exposed by this crisis.

The  Brits seem to love it, but it’s performance, in terms of protecting the British People,  seems to have been woeful.

I would not have access to the NHS, at least for free, but that worries me not one jot!

its treated as a precious child, with a degree of respect that, on the evidence, it just does not deserve. 

you cannot blame a health service for a governments shortcomings
the uk was so slow to implement any policy

and the same goes for trialing drugs prophylactics et etc

it built two nightinggale hospitals that it did not use

yes the uk public take it for granted never having to have paid for healthcare
turning up at a&e in drunken states
the uk is a sick puppy 
both in social outlook and dogma
dont blame a health service
blame those in charge

ive recieved pretty good health care in the past

only one moron a surgeon would not listen just an arrogant illigitimate son of a ill percieved marriage probably spent the best part of his formative years at boarding school with a flashman type giving lots of attention to his botty

yes there is a self protection cover up but its at a higher level
no one answers for the wrong of the uk because the buck always stops at the untouchables whose own sexual proclivities also seemingly born of a repressed boarding school backward thinking nation 
they could keep the entire s&m websites in business proably did since apparently the tories have spent 10 billion on their world beating track and trace
mean while malaysia spent a few ringgitt buying some q codes and bobs your uncle

rule brittiania 
i hardly think so a sinking beomoth 

never shoot the messenger as they say over worked under paid never thanked
blair the eternal socialist came along made it all about admin and managemewnt gave everyone fancy job titles
and another nail lodged into the coffin

[BritManToo]

16 hours ago, Leaver said:

but both needed a long term medical treatment plan, which I gather, even significant retirement savings may not have covered in Thailand

May not have covered if they insisted on using the most expensive private hospitals in Thailand.

I've found my long term medical treatment at Thai government hospitals cheaper than the parking fees at NHS hospitals in the UK.

[BritManToo]

16 hours ago, wordchild said:

why on earth move  to Thailand ,in the first place, in the later years of ones life?

Probably because some of us still want a sex life that involves having a woman in the room with us.

We ain't all Merchant Bankers!

Edited July 11, 2020 by BritManToo

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

May not have covered if they insisted on using the most expensive private hospitals in Thailand.

I've found my long term medical treatment at Thai government hospitals cheaper than the parking fees at NHS hospitals in the UK.

Fortunately for me, I have never needed any medical treatment here.  I am a little younger than most retirees, and currently in good health.  Of course, as one ages, the need for medical treatment increases, so it's only a matter of time.  

 

The guys I mentioned may or may not have had insurance.  When I visited them here, I did not pry into their financial affairs, and could see they were being well cared for, so there was no need to bring up the subject.  Perhaps they used their savings for immediate treatment, and then moved back to the UK for bulk of their treatment plan, because they were uninsured.  I am insured, so I guess if faced with a similar illness, or I have an accident, I would get to chose, knowing I am not paying for treatment either way.     

 

Just to get back on topic, whilst I am insured, I know of many who are not.  I would still like the NHS option, even if I do not have to, or want to, call upon it in the future.  For others, perhaps those who can not afford insurance, or can not secure insurance, should they deny access to the NHS for those who have been outside the UK for X amount of years, those expats will be faced with a very serious decision as to their future in Thailand.  

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by Leaver

[wordchild]

On 4/21/2020 at 3:01 PM, soi3eddie said:

 

23 hours ago, VBF said:

Having been treated by the NHS for a potentially life-threatening event in the last year, I disagree. It depends a lot on a "post-code lottery": if you live in an area with a good, well-run Trust, the treatment is superb - mine was and I won't hear a word against them.

But, if you live in a poorer area where the Trust isn't so fortunate, your experience can be very different.

 

Covid could have stretched the NHS beyond breaking point  it didn't....partly due to luck and partly to a "pre-emptive" strike of lockdown.

The Nightingale Hospitals were an example of "Damned if we do and Damned if we don't"

UK could have become Italy or Wuhan...... it didn't.

 

7 hours ago, topt said:

I normally have a great deal of respect for your posts but this seems like a deflection from @Leaver 's example.

He did not state, and you cannot know, how long they have lived in Thailand prior to the medical issues and what ties they may or may not have kept to the UK. 

His example, and reasons given, actually seem quite sensible to me however you appear to have a definition of an "expat" which not everybody may necessarily agree with.

 

There are myriad reasons why people may choose to move to Thailand. Cutting the umbilical cord to some may be the same as burning bridges to others and with so many different circumstances who is to say which is right.  

Ok fair point, my response was probably not thought through fully.

Edited July 11, 2020 by wordchild

[kingdong]

7 hours ago, andy72 said:

you cannot blame a health service for a governments shortcomings
the uk was so slow to implement any policy

and the same goes for trialing drugs prophylactics et etc

it built two nightinggale hospitals that it did not use

yes the uk public take it for granted never having to have paid for healthcare
turning up at a&e in drunken states
the uk is a sick puppy 
both in social outlook and dogma
dont blame a health service
blame those in charge

ive recieved pretty good health care in the past

only one moron a surgeon would not listen just an arrogant illigitimate son of a ill percieved marriage probably spent the best part of his formative years at boarding school with a flashman type giving lots of attention to his botty

yes there is a self protection cover up but its at a higher level
no one answers for the wrong of the uk because the buck always stops at the untouchables whose own sexual proclivities also seemingly born of a repressed boarding school backward thinking nation 
they could keep the entire s&m websites in business proably did since apparently the tories have spent 10 billion on their world beating track and trace
mean while malaysia spent a few ringgitt buying some q codes and bobs your uncle

rule brittiania 
i hardly think so a sinking beomoth 

never shoot the messenger as they say over worked under paid never thanked
blair the eternal socialist came along made it all about admin and managemewnt gave everyone fancy job titles
and another nail lodged into the coffin

calm yourself dear

[Leaver]

Just something to ponder. 

 

When a government states new taxes may be / will be introduced, we always think of having to pay more money in taxes to the government.  This is the case, most of the time.

 

However, when access to a service that, as a tax payer for decades, you have contributed to, is denied to you due to your personal circumstances, has the government not taxed you the access to that service? 

 

In effect, the government may not take any more money from you, just taxed away services from you, despite you contributing to the use of these services for decades.  

 

There's raising revenue through higher taxes, and then there's raising revenue through collecting the same amount of taxes, but denying a certain segment of tax payers access to such services that their own taxes provide for the country.      

[UKresonant]

On 7/10/2020 at 3:38 PM, Rookiescot said:

With a right wing government in power?

No chance of a wealth tax. 

They will increase VAT and national insurance contributions. 

For Starters, I think they shall go for what they have avoided so far, with suspension of Higher rate pension tax relief (perhaps a universal rate of 18%), reduction of the annual allowance for pension contributions to £24000 (for the next few years), but the lifetime allowance may increase.

Just before the next election, these measures shall be reversed, to a universal rate of 25% relief, and the annual allowance shall be increased incrementally...Also if the opposition are promoting a wealth tax in 4 years,

good reason not to vote for them Boris and Co may proclaim.

Some sort of funding for social care, perhaps 2% NI on your pension over £9k???.

Perhaps 1% Tax on FX !

0% interest rates next month?

They want people to spend!  No sudden substantial, direct taxes expected! ????

 

Wealth taxes only have a short term impact..waste of time. 

 

It was in one of the Opposition parties manifesto that they would raise ££M by taxing by removal of capital gains allowance, ignoring the opinion that if that were the case 60%+ of the transactions, would not occur! 

 

P.s. Don't go out of the UK  for more than 3 months continuously on any one trip, and you will be fine with the  NHS ???? ( before you draw you take your state P anyway)

 

Edited July 12, 2020 by UKresonant
n h s comment

[Leaver]

On 7/12/2020 at 5:59 PM, UKresonant said:

They want people to spend!  No sudden substantial, direct taxes expected! 

Are you suggesting no chance of a special "Covid-19 tax" being implemented?

 

On 7/12/2020 at 5:59 PM, UKresonant said:

Don't go out of the UK  for more than 3 months continuously on any one trip, and you will be fine with the  NHS 

So much for an early retirement then.  

[soi3eddie]

On 7/12/2020 at 11:59 AM, UKresonant said:

 

P.s. Don't go out of the UK  for more than 3 months continuously on any one trip, and you will be fine with the  NHS ???? ( before you draw you take your state P anyway)

 

Got a Brit friend here in Thailand who gets UK and Aussie pensions (UK pension never increases). If he is outside Aussie for more than 6 months he loses an amount of that pension. Therefore he books trips every 6 months there to keep his pension at full rate and also to get doctor appointment and prescriptions etc. I expect that this will become much more prevalent issue with western socialist governments in due course. Penalizing people who have paid in full amount over their working lives but because they dare live a happier life elswehere are penalized and restricted from receiving what they would be entitled to even if they lived on welfare in their home country. 

[kingdong]

On 7/10/2020 at 2:56 PM, wordchild said:

My own personal view, but the U.K NHS has been really exposed by this crisis.

The  Brits seem to love it, but it’s performance, in terms of protecting the British People,  seems to have been woeful.

I would not have access to the NHS, at least for free, but that worries me not one jot!

its treated as a precious child, with a degree of respect that, on the evidence, it just does not deserve. 

i had private health cover for over 20 years when i finally needed it it wasn,t worth a carrot and had to get it done on the nhs.

Edited July 25, 2020 by kingdong

[kingdong]

1 hour ago, soi3eddie said:

Got a Brit friend here in Thailand who gets UK and Aussie pensions (UK pension never increases). If he is outside Aussie for more than 6 months he loses an amount of that pension. Therefore he books trips every 6 months there to keep his pension at full rate and also to get doctor appointment and prescriptions etc. I expect that this will become much more prevalent issue with western socialist governments in due course. Penalizing people who have paid in full amount over their working lives but because they dare live a happier life elswehere are penalized and restricted from receiving what they would be entitled to even if they lived on welfare in their home country. 

you can thank tony blair for stopping nhs cover for ex pats.