Koh Samui: For sale and gathering dust - island that catered to foreigners is completely deserted

[RickG16]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Thanks for that post.

The tragedy of Hat Rin is that it is one of the most perfect beaches in Thailand, but off limits to anyone wanting nature over man.

I stayed there a few times late last century and while developed it wasn't yet overwhelmed by party mania. Quite nice actually.

The last time was on a stop over on the way back from Phangan a decade later- I hardly recognised the place and the price for the same place I stayed years before had gone up astronomically. The first place I stayed at which was lovely had vanished under a concrete mostrocity. Even the rather nice resort on Leela beach had gone full concrete destruction. Seemed that communing with nature on a nice beach was lost to foam parties and black moon raves.

I did go down to a few FMPs, but judging by the photos on the internet they were very low key compared to now.

There are still a few sparsely populated and 'hidden' beaches on Phangan (even more so now). They are just a bit trickier to access. But that adds to the appeal. 

[josephbloggs]

On 7/11/2020 at 9:48 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

The island that sold its soul for greed got its comeuppance!

I for one have no sympathy.

I stopped going there last century when it went trendy and expensive. Kicked the cheap places out ( like Charlie's hut ), destroyed the old Ark bar and built horrid concrete places everywhere.

Couldn't believe it last time I sailed past on the ferry to Phangan- concrete villas destroying every hillside. Used to be a great place to holiday- Chaweng is one of the most beautiful beaches I've ever seen, but ruined by greed and aircraft.

Only people to blame are the Thais that destroyed it to get rich.

Although you got a lot of likes (which must make you happy - rants always get them) why not answer an honest question.  Supply and demand - people love the island and come in greater numbers, more things spring up to accommodate or service them.

The island is booming, you own some land near the beach.  You could develop a resort and make a lot of money.  You could sell your land to someone else to develop and make a lot of money.  Or you could refuse because you are not greedy and you want the island to remain as it was when everyone had to defecate in a hole.  Comments like "Only people to blame are the Thais that destroyed it to get rich" sound incredibly bitter and jealous.

And one flight an hour ruins the island for you too?

[wotsdermatter]

On 7/11/2020 at 10:13 AM, rooster59 said:

Thai PBS went to Chaweng Beach on Koh Samui and found it completely deserted.

Not quite deserted as it is possible to see at least one person in each of the beach photographs.

'nuf sed.

[Tropicalevo]

On 8/7/2020 at 12:11 AM, josephbloggs said:

Or you could refuse because you are not greedy and you want the island to remain as it was

That happened way back on a beach near me. Tongson Bay.

Local man owned beachside land and had a few bungalows on it. Dirt road access. No electricity.

A couple of Brits came and offered to buy the land to set up a 'resort'. Back then, the top price for beachside land was 1 million baht per rai. They offered 5 million baht per rai.

The Thai guy said 'what would I do with all of that money?'

They replied 'you could relax, sit and do nothing except fish and eat and drink.'

His response was 'I do that now. With all of that money I just have a headache. All of my family and friends will come to me for a 'loan' and in 5 years it is all gone. No thank you, I will keep the land.'

He is still there.

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, Tropicalevo said:

That happened way back on a beach near me. Tongson Bay.

Local man owned beachside land and had a few bungalows on it. Dirt road access. No electricity.

A couple of Brits came and offered to buy the land to set up a 'resort'. Back then, the top price for beachside land was 1 million baht per rai. They offered 5 million baht per rai.

The Thai guy said 'what would I do with all of that money?'

They replied 'you could relax, sit and do nothing except fish and eat and drink.'

His response was 'I do that now. With all of that money I just have a headache. All of my family and friends will come to me for a 'loan' and in 5 years it is all gone. No thank you, I will keep the land.'

He is still there.

Brilliant! I was expecting a very different punchline from my own knowledge of that area ????

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/7/2020 at 5:11 AM, josephbloggs said:

Although you got a lot of likes (which must make you happy - rants always get them) why not answer an honest question.  Supply and demand - people love the island and come in greater numbers, more things spring up to accommodate or service them.

The island is booming, you own some land near the beach.  You could develop a resort and make a lot of money.  You could sell your land to someone else to develop and make a lot of money.  Or you could refuse because you are not greedy and you want the island to remain as it was when everyone had to defecate in a hole.  Comments like "Only people to blame are the Thais that destroyed it to get rich" sound incredibly bitter and jealous.

And one flight an hour ruins the island for you too?

 

Supply and demand - people love the island and come in greater numbers, more things spring up to accommodate or service them.

Just because people want to come doesn't mean nature has to be destroyed to accommodate them. Look at what happened in Maya Bay; destroyed by Thais bringing too many tourists to the beach because of greed.

Countries like NZ don't allow rampant, unregulated development in areas of exceptional beauty, and still manage to have a tourist industry that enjoys those areas.

Samui was well and truly developed in the 90s, and no one was pooping in a hole in the ground. The only reason for ruining it was greed.

If it continues, it will be like Penang Island, which is really awful.

 

BTW, package tourists don't go anywhere because they love the place. They go because they believe the lies in the travel agent brochures. People used to love the island ( including me ) but no one could love the horrid place it became. They probably love the night life and the parties, but hardly nature. No one that loves nature would go back for a second time.

 

Yes, the flights over where I was staying ruined it for me, along with uncontrolled hawkers on the beach. Thankfully, the jet ski scam had not arrived before I stopped staying on Samui, but the long tails did their best to destroy many other beaches even without jet skis or speedboats.

 

Would you have a vested interest in property on the island, by any chance?

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/7/2020 at 5:11 AM, josephbloggs said:

Although you got a lot of likes (which must make you happy - rants always get them)

Why is treasuring nature a rant? Obviously I'm not the only one that thinks Samui is overdeveloped.

Only happy people are the ones made lotsacash from ruining it.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/6/2020 at 6:08 PM, RickG16 said:

There are still a few sparsely populated and 'hidden' beaches on Phangan (even more so now). They are just a bit trickier to access. But that adds to the appeal. 

They are only that way BECAUSE they are hard to get to. Phanagn benefits immensely by not having an airport. Just extending the road from Chaloklum brought the rot to Haad Khom.

[RickG16]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

They are only that way BECAUSE they are hard to get to. Phanagn benefits immensely by not having an airport. Just extending the road from Chaloklum brought the rot to Haad Khom.

True... but there are also sparsely populated beaches on Samui, even though they might not be hidden. 

Edited August 10, 2020 by RickG16

[mike787]

It will be ok.  There are about 7 billion people on this planet and a lot of cash.  Covid will be around for a couple years but Samui will survive.  Relax, save, invest, enjoy your Thai wife, pace yourself, be happy.... and if you die, enjoy that too, it will be epic on the other side...

[Tropicalevo]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Why is treasuring nature a rant? Obviously I'm not the only one that thinks Samui is overdeveloped.

Only happy people are the ones made lotsacash from ruining it.

I believe that you are ranting and I think that it is about Chaweng. Not Samui. Similar to many others that trash Samui. Chaweng is one small area on the island. Personally, I avoid the place like the plague.

Where I live, I regularly meet monitor lizards, snakes, squirrels etc and I get to see dolphins again. I live where there is a fair bit of development. Travel around the island and off the ring road and there is still a lot of 'nature'.

Unfortunately, many folk come to Samui, stay in or near Chaweng and believe that that is all there is.

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Samui was well and truly developed in the 90s, and no one was pooping in a hole in the ground

Er - there are still people pooping in a hole in the ground on Samui today. Maybe get out more.

[josephbloggs]

11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

Supply and demand - people love the island and come in greater numbers, more things spring up to accommodate or service them.

Just because people want to come doesn't mean nature has to be destroyed to accommodate them. Look at what happened in Maya Bay; destroyed by Thais bringing too many tourists to the beach because of greed.

Countries like NZ don't allow rampant, unregulated development in areas of exceptional beauty, and still manage to have a tourist industry that enjoys those areas.

Samui was well and truly developed in the 90s, and no one was pooping in a hole in the ground. The only reason for ruining it was greed.

If it continues, it will be like Penang Island, which is really awful.

 

BTW, package tourists don't go anywhere because they love the place. They go because they believe the lies in the travel agent brochures. People used to love the island ( including me ) but no one could love the horrid place it became. They probably love the night life and the parties, but hardly nature. No one that loves nature would go back for a second time.

 

Yes, the flights over where I was staying ruined it for me, along with uncontrolled hawkers on the beach. Thankfully, the jet ski scam had not arrived before I stopped staying on Samui, but the long tails did their best to destroy many other beaches even without jet skis or speedboats.

 

Would you have a vested interest in property on the island, by any chance?

Ok, so you completely ignored my question.  You blame "Thai greed" which is a popular refrain on this forum.  But again, I will ask you, if you were left a valuable area of land on the beach and you were offered a couple of million dollars for it (or more) would you take it and not care about what happened to the plot, or would you resist the "greed" and say no, you like the island like it is, not sell, and leave your coconut plantation alone?  We both know the answer.  Any human would sell the land and retire happy and know their kids are looked after.

So it is not Thai greed, it is human nature.  I would sell the land and I wouldn't give a fig if they built a 50 story monstrosity on it and Samui became Benidorm.  I wouldn't.  You wouldn't.  I would have sold my land on soi 38 and kissed goodbye to the street food.  I would have sold Hemingway's to a hotel chain and laughed all the way to the bank.  And so would you.  Unless you were / are Bill Gates.

Tell me you would resist the money and leave the coconuts to live in peace - and then you can can talk about Thai "greed".  It is so boring to read that term in post after post, along with "brown envelopes" - another "hilarious" TVF favourite.  

So, care to answer the question honestly?  What would you do?  Would you turn down the money?

And no, I have no property interests in Samui, absolutely nilch.

 

[khunPer]

13 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Why is treasuring nature a rant? Obviously I'm not the only one that thinks Samui is overdeveloped.

Only happy people are the ones made lotsacash from ruining it.

Everywhere is changing – especially places lots of people wish to visit – it's extremely difficult to live in the past.

 

From what I've been told, and seen from photos – as I didn't arrive here before 2001 – Samui before the airport era was mainly dirt roads, or mud paths during the rainy season that lasts more or less from April till early January; and electricity came from generators running from 6 pm till 10 pm. Everybody says that it was a cozy backpacker- and new age hippie era, but I'm not sure it would be as like cozy, as memories recall it, to relive it in 2020.

 

Sumui seems however to have survived a lot better than many other places, when it comes to preserving the feeling of both old time and nature. I tried to search before and now images at Google, from some other well known Thai holiday destinations by a beach, to compare how they developed. 

 

Most well known before and now comparison is Pattaya...

 

And Phi Phi Island (the years are not mentioned)...

 

But also Hua Hin, which is an old beach resort area, has been – in my view drastically – developed...

 

Walking by Hua Hin beach today is like walking any over developed tourist beach destination, with tower hotels and appartements, almost anywhere in the World...

 

The not so greedy inhabitants of Samui luckily stated long time ago that no new constructions could be higher than the coconut palms. I took these photos on Chaweng Beach in high season 2017 – would not be fair to compare with anything from now with no people – it's from mid of the bay in front of Al's Resort, which is probably the most build stretch on the most "over developed" beach on Samui. Facing north...

–and facing south, no tall development anywhere...

 

Compare this to a southern view I found from of 1980, from before the airport, probably even before tourism, apart from some few backpackers and hippies...

 

Of course it's changed during the years, numerous villas have been build up the hill by Chaweng Noi, but no towers, or any tall buildings. This 2020 photo – taken during the lockdown – is almost same position, 40 years after...

 

The feeling of natur is not completely gone, but there are more people now., and also development. However, there are plenty of other less developed beautiful beaches with lots of nature on Samui, and heading up the hills and the mountains in the middle of the island, the nature is still like the nature was a long time ago.

 

My point is that the so-called "Thai greed" is much less on Samui than many other places – also outside Thailand – but the island has of course changed during 30-40 years of development by not being encapsulated in a time bubble.

 

How much has your home country and home town changed in 40 years?

[BritManToo]

On 7/12/2020 at 1:45 AM, ayahuasca said:

PS: any other recommendations? I was in Phu Quoc last year, and it was 1/2 the price of Thailand and there were some very nice beaches, however, wanton development is occurring there too, to a bizarre extreme. 

Da Nang beach is nice and clean, and clear water, despite being a big city.

 

[khunPer]

12 hours ago, khunPer said:

Most well known before and now comparison is Pattaya...

Seems like the external server with the image I inserted from Google-search is not working, so I copy and upload the image about "Pattaya before and (almost) now" instead to Thaivisa...

[utalkin2me]

The people talking about the downfall of the island don't seem to want to face the fact that they themselves were contributors to the downfall. 

 

That is always how that works. Even if it was you alone in your house on the island, part of the reason it "went to <deleted>" is YOU. 

[Nsp64]

On 8/11/2020 at 3:14 PM, utalkin2me said:

The people talking about the downfall of the island don't seem to want to face the fact that they themselves were contributors to the downfall. 

 

That is always how that works. Even if it was you alone in your house on the island, part of the reason it "went to <deleted>" is YOU. 

Horrible uneducated, money grabbing locals, expats seem like an arrogant bunch too.

Glad it's <deleted>

Bad luck samui

 You brought it on yourself with all the corruption and mismanagement. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/10/2020 at 4:22 PM, RickG16 said:

True... but there are also sparsely populated beaches on Samui, even though they might not be hidden. 

One of the benefits of a large island. I once walked south from Lamai and discovered a large and beautiful beach that had but one or two hotels on it. No doubt the lack of a songtheaw service had spared it.

That was long ago, so may have changed now.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/11/2020 at 8:14 PM, utalkin2me said:

The people talking about the downfall of the island don't seem to want to face the fact that they themselves were contributors to the downfall. 

 

That is always how that works. Even if it was you alone in your house on the island, part of the reason it "went to <deleted>" is YOU. 

Similar to the bagpackers desire to visit "untouched by western civilization" hill tribes in the north. Soon as the first bagpacker set foot in the village they were corrupted, and ended up with the kids sent out to beg.

 

However, Samui in the 90s seemed to have the balance right between acceptable accommodations for a large range of wallets and over development. Of course the lure of the big baht was too much in the end, sadly. To see where it ultimately ends up with greed as the motivation, look to Penang for the future. That's a horror even worse than Chaweng.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/10/2020 at 6:25 PM, Tropicalevo said:

I believe that you are ranting and I think that it is about Chaweng. Not Samui. Similar to many others that trash Samui. Chaweng is one small area on the island. Personally, I avoid the place like the plague.

Where I live, I regularly meet monitor lizards, snakes, squirrels etc and I get to see dolphins again. I live where there is a fair bit of development. Travel around the island and off the ring road and there is still a lot of 'nature'.

Unfortunately, many folk come to Samui, stay in or near Chaweng and believe that that is all there is.

Er - there are still people pooping in a hole in the ground on Samui today. Maybe get out more.

I'm happy to hear that nature still hangs on in Samui. Chaweng is without doubt a jewel in the world crown of beautiful beaches, so when it is ruined it is a loss for the planet.

However, you have a point. To single out Chaweng and condemn the entire island is rather like thinking all of NZ is a <deleted><deleted> just because Auckland is.

I'll try and be more specific in the future, though the last time I passed by Samui on the ferry from Phangan, it was hard to see the hillsides ( no where near Chaweng ) because of the number of flash villas built all over them.

 

I never saw anyone pooping in a hole in the ground on Samui, and I went a lot of places. However, I'll bow to your more extensive knowledge of pooping on Samui.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/11/2020 at 4:05 AM, josephbloggs said:

Ok, so you completely ignored my question.  You blame "Thai greed" which is a popular refrain on this forum.  But again, I will ask you, if you were left a valuable area of land on the beach and you were offered a couple of million dollars for it (or more) would you take it and not care about what happened to the plot, or would you resist the "greed" and say no, you like the island like it is, not sell, and leave your coconut plantation alone?  We both know the answer.  Any human would sell the land and retire happy and know their kids are looked after.

So it is not Thai greed, it is human nature.  I would sell the land and I wouldn't give a fig if they built a 50 story monstrosity on it and Samui became Benidorm.  I wouldn't.  You wouldn't.  I would have sold my land on soi 38 and kissed goodbye to the street food.  I would have sold Hemingway's to a hotel chain and laughed all the way to the bank.  And so would you.  Unless you were / are Bill Gates.

Tell me you would resist the money and leave the coconuts to live in peace - and then you can can talk about Thai "greed".  It is so boring to read that term in post after post, along with "brown envelopes" - another "hilarious" TVF favourite.  

So, care to answer the question honestly?  What would you do?  Would you turn down the money?

And no, I have no property interests in Samui, absolutely nilch.

 

And so would you.

You know nothing about me, yet you think you do

 

So, care to answer the question honestly?  What would you do?  Would you turn down the money?

Yes. I sacrificed decades of my life to caring for the sick and injured for the pittance they pay nurses, so not something I'd consider.

The opportunity to live as near to nature as possible is a treasure beyond anything money can buy. The great joy I found in LOS was on the minimally developed beaches. Than Sadet was wonderful. I stopped going to any beach I loved when it went too concrete. I think it's very sad that the opportunity for new generations of tourists to experience a beautiful beach while not having to live in a tent is lost in LOS. Not everyone only wants to party and get blotted.

 

That's not something unique at all. Beatrice Potter spent a large amount of her fortune to preserve the Lake district in England, something millions of people flock to to experience. She could have lived in a mansion, but chose to live in a rather small and dark farmhouse.

 

If I won millions in a lottery I'd buy something as unspoiled as possible and treasure living in it that way every day.

 

Human nature- perhaps, if one thinks all humans are greedy, but many are not.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/11/2020 at 7:56 PM, khunPer said:

Seems like the external server with the image I inserted from Google-search is not working, so I copy and upload the image about "Pattaya before and (almost) now" instead to Thaivisa...

Can't compare Pattaya to Chaweng. Pattaya was never in the same league. Very average beach. Probably only got started because it was a convenient beach for the US servicemen at U Tapao.

It was already so developed in the 80s that the stench from the sea pollution was keeping visitors away. Chaweng didn't get exploited badly till this century.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/11/2020 at 7:20 AM, khunPer said:

Of course it's changed during the years, numerous villas have been build up the hill by Chaweng Noi, but no towers, or any tall buildings. This 2020 photo – taken during the lockdown – is almost same position, 40 years after...

 

The feeling of natur is not completely gone, but there are more people now., and also development. However, there are plenty of other less developed beautiful beaches with lots of nature on Samui, and heading up the hills and the mountains in the middle of the island, the nature is still like the nature was a long time ago.

Concrete is concrete, no matter how low it is.

No person that treasures nature could love that scene.

 

In the 90s, for the most part "no building above the tree line" included "not visible when standing on the beach". Some places like Charlie's Hut were very visible, but only because the trees were sparse in the area.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/11/2020 at 7:20 AM, khunPer said:

Walking by Hua Hin beach today is like walking any over developed tourist beach destination, with tower hotels and appartements, almost anywhere in the World...

 

What that photo does not show is that that beach is impassable at high tide ( further down the beach ) because of the illegal encroachment below high tide level. The water is waist deep along the sea walls.

That is down to greed and corruption.

Edited August 15, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/12/2020 at 7:45 PM, Nsp64 said:

Horrible uneducated, money grabbing locals, expats seem like an arrogant bunch too.

Glad it's <deleted>

Bad luck samui

 You brought it on yourself with all the corruption and mismanagement.